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Tanar'ri vs Baatezu

DjimmyDjimmy Member Posts: 749
edited August 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
Which one do you prefer?
  1. Tanar'ri vs Baatezu141 votes
    1. Tanar'ri
      48.94%
    2. Baatezu
      51.06%
«134

Comments

  • Jean_LucJean_Luc Member Posts: 228
    Which ones have the succubi? In any case I prefer those.
  • TalvraeTalvrae Member Posts: 315
    Tannari got succubus, Batazzu have Ereniyes, wich is about the same but instand of bat wings they have feather wings
  • eainterplayeainterplay Member Posts: 55
    edited August 2012
    Jean_Luc said:

    Which ones have the succubi? In any case I prefer those.

    Tanar'ri although the Baatezu have Erinyes which are extremely similar.

    Edit: Whoops took too long posting and talvrae beat me to it.
  • TalvraeTalvrae Member Posts: 315
    here a bit of the info
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Erinyes
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Succubus
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Jean_Luc said:

    Which ones have the succubi? In any case I prefer those.

    Depends on the Edition. In 4th, demons don't actually care about tempting mortals, so WotC felt it made more sense for them to be devils, who actually deal with mortal souls as a commodity for bartering.

    In previous editions, though, as others have mentioned, succubi are demons.
  • TalvraeTalvrae Member Posts: 315
    Schneidend said:

    Jean_Luc said:

    Which ones have the succubi? In any case I prefer those.

    Depends on the Edition. In 4th, demons don't actually care about tempting mortals, so WotC felt it made more sense for them to be devils, who actually deal with mortal souls as a commodity for bartering.

    In previous editions, though, as others have mentioned, succubi are demons.
    that must made weird relation with the Erinyes
  • CommunardCommunard Member Posts: 556
    All the Baatezu say I'm pretty fly for a Tanar'ri...
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Talvrae said:

    Schneidend said:

    Jean_Luc said:

    Which ones have the succubi? In any case I prefer those.

    Depends on the Edition. In 4th, demons don't actually care about tempting mortals, so WotC felt it made more sense for them to be devils, who actually deal with mortal souls as a commodity for bartering.

    In previous editions, though, as others have mentioned, succubi are demons.
    that must made weird relation with the Erinyes
    Yeah, I haven't read up on where Erinyes fit in just yet. When the first 4E Monster Manual came out they didn't have erinyes. Now they do, and they are also devils...and I'm not sure why. Time to find out! I will let you know if my investigations bear fruit.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    @Talvrae
    Aha! Apparently, they took off the wings, gave them plate mail, and made erinyes more martial commander types. They buff the AC of their allies and give their allies temporary HP while they beat you up with bastard swords. Seems pretty cool, though I would have let them keep their wings.
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,344
    Generally prefer Baatezu. Evil that can be bargained with, values its allies and mostly keeps its word tend to make for more interesting/complex situations than evil that just wants to cause arbitrary suffering.
  • TalvraeTalvrae Member Posts: 315
    @Schneidend Agreed with you i loved theyr wings
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    I have a friend who always goes for Mariliths. Multi-armed gorgeous women with snake lower halves.

    3e version: http://dnd-wiki.org/w/images/9/91/Memento_Mori_Marilith_by_Caelicorn.jpg
    1e version: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YQOmgdRRtAY/TahvCaPmfkI/AAAAAAAAAa4/Im9LfeXupKg/s1600/Marilith-705236.jpg
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    LadyRhian said:

    I have a friend who always goes for Mariliths. Multi-armed gorgeous women with snake lower halves.

    3e version: http://dnd-wiki.org/w/images/9/91/Memento_Mori_Marilith_by_Caelicorn.jpg
    1e version: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YQOmgdRRtAY/TahvCaPmfkI/AAAAAAAAAa4/Im9LfeXupKg/s1600/Marilith-705236.jpg

    Noooo! I forgot about mariliths! For some reason, multiple arms are really sexy. It's part of why I have so much love for web comic superhero Spinnerette.

    @Talvrae

    Here's a pic of a 4th Edition erinyes. They look pretty cool, like something out of Warhammer, but not as tryhard as Warhammer.
  • Jean_LucJean_Luc Member Posts: 228
    edited August 2012
    LadyRhian said:

    I have a friend who always goes for Mariliths. Multi-armed gorgeous women with snake lower halves.

    3e version: http://dnd-wiki.org/w/images/9/91/Memento_Mori_Marilith_by_Caelicorn.jpg
    1e version: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YQOmgdRRtAY/TahvCaPmfkI/AAAAAAAAAa4/Im9LfeXupKg/s1600/Marilith-705236.jpg

    Not bad though that's somewhere around two arms too many. Erinyes it is then, less slutty than succubi with snugly feather wings.

    Generally prefer Baatezu. Evil that can be bargained with, values its allies and mostly keeps its word tend to make for more interesting/complex situations than evil that just wants to cause arbitrary suffering.
    Also this.


  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Jean_Luc said:



    Not bad though that's somewhere around two arms too many. Erinyes it is then, less slutty than succubi with snugly feather wings.

    Well, they're pretty much exactly as slutty as succubi, but feathery wings do sound comfy, indeed.

    Generally prefer Baatezu. Evil that can be bargained with, values its allies and mostly keeps its word tend to make for more interesting/complex situations than evil that just wants to cause arbitrary suffering.
    Also this.




    Agreed. I don't mind a good "destroy everything" baddy once in a while, but Lawful and Neutral Evil villains tend to be much more fun overall.
  • DreamDream Member Posts: 52
    Gogo Yugoloths, or whatever they're called now in 4E.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Dream said:

    Gogo Yugoloths, or whatever they're called now in 4E.

    Still present! Though, they all seem to be Chaotic Evil now.
  • XavioriaXavioria Member Posts: 875
    Tanar'ri, because after planescape: Torment, I had to fall in love with the chaotic side of things. That and Fall-from-Grace was one of my favorite characters from that game. My first favorite was hargrim though... kinda wish he was made a joinable NPC... but ANYWHO!!!
  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,606
    Tanar'ri because they have those fine Succubi.
  • DreamDream Member Posts: 52
    Schneidend said:

    Dream said:

    Gogo Yugoloths, or whatever they're called now in 4E.

    Still present! Though, they all seem to be Chaotic Evil now.
    Wait, what? That doesn't even make any sense.
  • RenshtalisRenshtalis Member Posts: 136
    Baatezu, I always liked the idea of selling your soul for power n forbidden knowledge!
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    edited August 2012
    To quote Fall-from-Grace:
    "And thus, the old debate continues: Which is the greater evil? Efficient evil or passionate evil?"

    I say it's all about the mad passion and dark desire made manifest, which is why the Tanar'ri get my vote. Not to mention the Succubi, Mariliths and the all but forgotten Alu-Fiends are far more fascinating than the baatorian Erinyes.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @Jean_Luc @Schneidend Alu-Demons? Glasya, Princess of Hell?

    http://www.ilmatar.net/~np/rpg/yar/images/alu-demon.gif
    http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/alumni_Glasya_1.jpg

    Women had Graz'zt: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/21/Graz'zt.JPG/200px-Graz'zt.JPG
    But I always preferred the Cat Lord, myself: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/20/Cat_Lord.JPG/200px-Cat_Lord.JPG

    In 2e, he seemed to prefer female form: http://dailyencounter.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Catlord.jpg
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Dream said:

    Schneidend said:

    Dream said:

    Gogo Yugoloths, or whatever they're called now in 4E.

    Still present! Though, they all seem to be Chaotic Evil now.
    Wait, what? That doesn't even make any sense.
    It doesn't? I admit, I think they would have been better off being Evil, but I guess WotC decided all demons should be CE and all devils should be E, so there we are.
  • DreamDream Member Posts: 52
    edited August 2012
    Schneidend said:

    Dream said:

    Schneidend said:

    Dream said:

    Gogo Yugoloths, or whatever they're called now in 4E.

    Still present! Though, they all seem to be Chaotic Evil now.
    Wait, what? That doesn't even make any sense.
    It doesn't? I admit, I think they would have been better off being Evil, but I guess WotC decided all demons should be CE and all devils should be E, so there we are.
    But wasn't the whole idea to have Demons, Devils, and Yugoloths as the Chaotic, Lawful, and Neutral Evils, respectively. If Yugoloths are CE now then who are the NE dudes. Also, how does that all work in the Blood War since what kept it going was the Yugoloths/Baernaloths playing one side against the other.
  • WorgWorg Member Posts: 170
    I prefer demons because my DM keeps screwing us over with devils. They keep popping up and giving us deals that we most certainly dont accept, yet are binding (for ridiculous reasons) and by the end of the adventure our characters are in hell. I prefer a demon that'll just kill you and send you to hell that way.
  • AurenRavidelAurenRavidel Member Posts: 139
    Tanar'ri have succubi. I like Lost Girl, in which the lead is a succubi. Her sidekick is adorable. This has been my incredibly poor thought process behind selecting Tanar'ri. Somehow it all leads to Ksenia Solo.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Dream said:


    But wasn't the whole idea to have Demons, Devils, and Yugoloths as the Chaotic, Lawful, and Neutral Evils, respectively. If Yugoloths are CE now then who are the NE dudes. Also, how does that all work in the Blood War since what kept it going was the Yugoloths/Baernaloths playing one side against the other.

    There isn't a Neutral Evil in 4E. The designers felt LE and NE overlapped in a lot of ways, so they made them into one alignment, Evil. NG and CG received similar treatment and became Good. Lawful Good and Chaotic Evil survived this transition, while all the Neutral alignments were placed into the all-encompassing Unaligned.

    4E changed a lot of stuff about elementals, the elemental planes, demons, and the Abyss. Instead of a plane for every element, there is one plane called the Elemental Chaos that is basically a roiling, chaotic mess of all the elements shifting and changing and forming quasi-elements. While he was making Baator the seat of his power, Asmodeus had Graz'zt steal a seed of pure evil from the realm of the insane god Therizdun, broke a piece off of it to make his scepter, and put the bulk of it into a remote part of the Elemental Chaos for some unknown purpose. The seed corrupted a large region of the Elemental Chaos into the Abyss, and demons had their genesis, which technically makes them elementals (albeit with the demon keyword). It's still unclear whether Asmodeus knew this would happen, or if he was just dicking around. Either way, eventually Graz'zt defected and became a demon prince because he felt like it. Though, some other major players in the multiverse speculate that Graz'zt may just be playing the long game on a mission for Asmodeus, perhaps to reclaim the seed of evil when it is finally ripe.

    As for the Blood War, there isn't a conflict by that name in the 4E Core cosmology, though demons and devils still fight all the time so that's not really different at all. The Yugoloths are just demons with a more mercenary bent.
    Worg said:

    I prefer demons because my DM keeps screwing us over with devils. They keep popping up and giving us deals that we most certainly dont accept, yet are binding (for ridiculous reasons) and by the end of the adventure our characters are in hell. I prefer a demon that'll just kill you and send you to hell that way.

    Just...don't accept the deals? Or, alternatively, once you're in the Hells just start killing stuff until an archduke realizes it's more cost-effective to hire you than try to kill you.
  • JolanthusJolanthus Member Posts: 292
    Dream said:

    Also, how does that all work in the Blood War since what kept it going was the Yugoloths/Baernaloths playing one side against the other.

    There is no more blood war (at least in the Forgotten realms) Asmodeus ended it.

    When Dweomerheart collapsed in the wake of Mystra's death, her servant Azuth fell into the Hells where Asmodeus, sensing his opportunity, devoured the lesser deity and became a god himself. He then ended the Blood War by forcing the Abyss underneath the Elemental Chaos.
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