Drow are only really chaotic evil in a "might makes right sense". Personally I would say their society leans more towards the more pragmatic neutral evil end of the spectrum. I think the "War of the Spider Queen" series is a great description of how their society works. Take Pharaun Mizzrym, probably my favorite drow of all time, he has a long standing friendship with Ryld Argith, but he has no qualms about abandoning him to die when it is convenient for him. This is how I see drow society, they have values just like all other societies, it's just that most of them value themselves over pretty much everything else.
And i'd point the Monster Manual 3rd edition or 3.5... or this wikipedia article that point out that drow where defined in that edition as Neutral evil, for good reason... If Drow where truly chaotic evil theyr civilisation would never had reached that high http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drow_(Dungeons_&_Dragons)#Alignment
Definitely nothing lawful about drow. Their "rules" are extremely loose, the whole system is meant to be exploited by any kind of subterfuge you can think of. They have almost no sense of duty and only serve out of fear and respect of power. They don't honour alliances or friendships, at best they come secondary to advancement of power and status (this includes parental ties). As a society they are constantly set back by their disunity and are very prone to civil war and all sorts of lesser infighting.
If the dark elves could actually impose order on themselves they might even achieve that domination domination of underdark that they apparently covet and threaten the surface in a major way. As it is they're little more than underground pirates. Vicious yes, but mostly just raiders.
The biggest irony is that Lolth probably doesn't even truly care about the drow and whether they advance or fail as a society, all she needs is for them to be "chaotic", do all sorts of crazy shit and worship spiders in order to sustain her divinity. It also doesn't help that many of their most capable individuals have a tendency to turn good and escape to the surface killing a bunch of drow in the process.
I think Jean_Luc nailed it pretty well there. I would probably say the drow seem mostly neutral evil as well, but the sense of sadistic delight they seem to take in slaughter, suffering, torture etc for its own sake definitely goes beyond the extent of self-promotion and into chaotic evil.
Do I want to be on the side of the tightly regimented blocks of devils, or the giant unending horde of demons? I'm thinking, let's just stay out of this :-p
@Drugar I remember reading that in the Blood War the demons and devils win about 50% of their battles each. The demons may vastly outnumber the devils, but they are absurdly poor tacticians and can easily be countered by the well disciplined and organized devils. If the baatezu had the numbers of the tanar'ri they would win every battle, that's why I voted Baatezu.
speaking of the alignments, are the means and ends of a chaotic evil creature different than that of a chaotic evil fiend? I play chaotic evil humans, because I like to think of my character as inhuman and "bestial", extremely unpredictable and volatile, yet still cold and calculating. The sort of person who never has to explain his actions. Also, ahem... Sarevok (I know I bring him up evrytime) was chaotic evil and he was intelligent albeit short tempered, but far from a mindless brute.
I loved Abishai in PST, but I also think dog-headed Glabrezus are too cool. Devils make me think of a typical smug goatee baddie whereas demons make me think of skull clad, muscle-bound monstrosities.
There isn't a Neutral Evil in 4E. The designers felt LE and NE overlapped in a lot of ways, so they made them into one alignment, Evil. NG and CG received similar treatment and became Good. Lawful Good and Chaotic Evil survived this transition, while all the Neutral alignments were placed into the all-encompassing Unaligned.
Odin's raven that is a lot of changes to the classic alignment system... It will take some time to adjust
Demons I know will kill and possibly eat my party during our first encounter. Devils might make a deal where I get ripped off in the end. So my question is which is the lesser of two evils? I'd support Asmodeus if it wasn't for the fact that I'd be a slave (Most likely) in the Nine Hells
Tie-breaking vote! 51-50 at this post! This is a close one. Demons > Devils. Screw the man! Fight the power!
It's also worth noting that prior to the newer editions, Demons also used souls as a means of currency (in that it increases their power and influence). They just don't bother with any of those silly 'contracts'. In NWN2:MOTB you can talk a devil into leaving a poor sap alone due to a technicallity in the rules. Any self respecting Demon would just devour the imputent wretch.
I prefer demons because my DM keeps screwing us over with devils. They keep popping up and giving us deals that we most certainly dont accept, yet are binding (for ridiculous reasons) and by the end of the adventure our characters are in hell. I prefer a demon that'll just kill you and send you to hell that way.
Tell your DM to start to use Genies (he will love to use them on you ppl)... the orginal contract wishing screwer... you lose not only your soul and body but you end up as slave for enternety.... if you have a bad luck your soul end up in abyss or hell. best scenario you can hope for is wonderful ending your pc life can have as a slave soldier (then you lose your soul to your master and he can use your soul as money currency) in the Bloodwar version of Titans Vs. Genies on the elemental plane...
How can anyone refuse this " This is due to her extraordinary beauty and carnal desires; traits that attract mortal spellcasters to summon the demoness forth to use for their own debased desire. Succubi delight in causing suffering by manipulating the desires of mortals and tempting them into depraved acts that they would normally avoid. "
My Wizard only has Summon Succubus in those spell slots!
Wait what. Why the hell would anyone change the *alignment system.* If there's anything Dungeons and Dragons did right, it's the alignment system. I'm surprised real life psychologists don't use the DnD alignment system as a minor point of insight. I know I'm a total nerd for doing so, but I can often understand people better by thinking what their DnD alignment appears to be. It's seriously brilliant stuff.
@kamuizin Alignment alignment answers the question actors ask when working on a movie: "what's my motivation for this character". It doesn't restrict individual choices on specific situations.
If you are chaotic evil it doesn't mean you have to murder every baby you pass by or whatever.
Alignment is more of a "character guide". Suppose you are roleplaying a halfling Bilbo Cosby and run into an ethical situation. You can look at his alignment and do the best you think he would do.
Although I prefer my good to be chaotic, I prefer my evil to be lawful. For the same reason really. There's nothing interesting about a paladin who always goes by the book or an evil maniac who does whatever he pleases. A thoroughly evil guy with a strict code of behavior or a good guy who sometimes does the wrong/irresponsible thing is generally more interesting.
Wait what. Why the hell would anyone change the *alignment system.* If there's anything Dungeons and Dragons did right, it's the alignment system. I'm surprised real life psychologists don't use the DnD alignment system as a minor point of insight. I know I'm a total nerd for doing so, but I can often understand people better by thinking what their DnD alignment appears to be. It's seriously brilliant stuff.
Well, when you think about it, Neutral Evil and Lawful Evil ARE quite similar, as both are typically skirting the law but have more qualms about being wanted criminals or outright rocking the boat than Chaotic Evils. The same goes for Neutral Good and Chaotic Good, neither of whom have issues bucking authority in order to do benevolent things on a regular basis. The loss of Lawful Neutral does seem regrettable to me, but the Neutrals are a bit iffy for most players, I would say.
Comments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drow_(Dungeons_&_Dragons)#Alignment
Do I want to be on the side of the tightly regimented blocks of devils, or the giant unending horde of demons?
I'm thinking, let's just stay out of this :-p
I remember reading that in the Blood War the demons and devils win about 50% of their battles each. The demons may vastly outnumber the devils, but they are absurdly poor tacticians and can easily be countered by the well disciplined and organized devils. If the baatezu had the numbers of the tanar'ri they would win every battle, that's why I voted Baatezu.
It's also worth noting that prior to the newer editions, Demons also used souls as a means of currency (in that it increases their power and influence). They just don't bother with any of those silly 'contracts'. In NWN2:MOTB you can talk a devil into leaving a poor sap alone due to a technicallity in the rules. Any self respecting Demon would just devour the imputent wretch.
Fall From Grace
Otherwise i would prefer Baateazus, you can make more secure deals with them (to work an warlock character for example).
My Wizard only has Summon Succubus in those spell slots!
Succubus for teh win!
Only Vikky is better!
Both together are...exquisite!
If you are chaotic evil it doesn't mean you have to murder every baby you pass by or whatever.
Alignment is more of a "character guide". Suppose you are roleplaying a halfling Bilbo Cosby and run into an ethical situation. You can look at his alignment and do the best you think he would do.
(Somehow, I missed out on the initial act of thread necromancy for this poll.)
Hmmm... i see, probally because Fall From Grace