Actually project image is not all that powerful. Indeed, Timestop + improved alacrity alone wins 99.9% of the fights in the game.
Project image (just as wish) allows you to do that without resting after each fight. But since resting has no impact in the game, i could argue that the spell is useless
There is maybe 2 fights where it makes a difference (= where you need more than 1 spell book to obliterate all oposition) : - sendai (because it's long) - the final fight (because you cannot rest)
Don't get me wrong, it is my favorite spell in the game (because i hate resting) but actually it is not a decisive spell if you don't care about resting.
If Project Image still has the no summoning limit exploit, it's 5/5 without a doubt. Planetar/Mordy/Invisible Stalker army, nuff said. Even if it doesn't, I'd say it's still great on Sorcerers because it gives you incredible versatility as you can, say, buff your party without costing most of your spells per day, or summon all your creatures then dismiss it to essentially get your spells back.
Actually project image is not all that powerful. Indeed, Timestop + improved alacrity alone wins 99.9% of the fights in the game.
Project image (just as wish) allows you to do that without resting after each fight. But since resting has no impact in the game, i could argue that the spell is useless
There is maybe 2 fights where it makes a difference (= where you need more than 1 spell book to obliterate all oposition) : - sendai (because it's long) - the final fight (because you cannot rest)
Don't get me wrong, it is my favorite spell in the game (because i hate resting) but actually it is not a decisive spell if you don't care about resting.
That's why I love it so much. By this point of the game, with a Sorcerer anyway, all of the micromanaging of the game just disappears (well mostly). It's akin to what Bag of Holding does for equipment management.
@Artemius, using the no summoning exploit is really a sad way to play the game (i know i have done it...) : 1- enter the area 2- cast project image 3- summon 5 planetars 4- have them kill the project image 5- watch the planetars slaughter everything
Alternatively, you could also CTRL+Y your way through the game; it's faster.
@Jlee : i also like it for the same reason. At level 15, you start to really feel powerful. At 18 you don't have to worry about anything. You just come in the room, cast project image, slaugther everything, proceed to the next room. Only a few fights keep some level of difficulty.
Don't get me wrong, I love Mordy swords. I just wish they were not susceptible to death spell. The fact that they can just disappear so easily, to me, makes them a 4.5 instead of a 5.
Level 8 Top Tiers: -Abi-Dalzim’s Horrid Wilting: 5/5 -Power Word Blind: 5/5 (no save and quick speed) -Simulacrum: 5/5 (level drained duplicate of caster, cannot be dispelled) -Spell Trigger: 5/5 (level 6 and below)
Mid Tiers: -Incendiary Cloud: 3.5/5 (20d4 fire damage per round for ten rounds; burn those drows in Sendai’s cave!) -Symbol, Stun: 3.5/5 (area save -4) -Bigby’s Clenched Fist: 3/5 (Implosion ignores MR, holds the target, casts faster and does more damage) -Maze: 3/5 -Pierce Shield: 3/5 (Ruby Ray of Reversal + Lower Resistance) -Symbol, Fear: 3/5 (area save -4)
Low Tiers: -Summon Fiend: 2/5 -Protection from Energy: 1.5/5 (few enemies use more than 1 element at a time) -Improved Mantle: 1.5/5 -Symbol, Death: 1.5/5 (affect below 60 HP only and no save penalty)
Don't get me wrong, I love Mordy swords. I just wish they were not susceptible to death spell. The fact that they can just disappear so easily, to me, makes them a 4.5 instead of a 5.
Everything need some drawbacks. Otherwise they just roll over enemies and destroy the fun.
I don't think I'd give maze that high of a rating. But that could just be that I find it really annoying. If you wanted to temporarily rid yourself of an enemy in the middle of a fight (or time to lay down traps) I imagine it could be useful.
Spell trigger combo Skull Trap+Skull Trap+Protection from Magical Damage is nice since you take no damage. Protection from Energy is one of my favorites anyway, but Protection from the Elements is better and a level lower. I'd make Bigby's Clenched Fist 4.5/5, in ToB, Melissan, Abazigal and a few more miss Hold immunity, just cast that spell and they'll be dead in a single round (literally!!). Maze is cool with very powerful creatures, you cast it, set Thief traps and SPRUNG! (Get it?) the enemy dies! But that tactic don't works with more than one enemy I'd rate Incendiary Cloud 4/5, it's VERY easy to exploit and it's very useful against Liches, best strategy to use can be found here, I already posted it too much times and I feel like spamming by posting it again. For Simulacrum you can use Vhailor's Helm, in BG2 vanilla there was the posibility to use it with Mages because of Potion Swapping Exploit + Bag of Holding Item Recharge Exploit so you did not need to memorize the spell, that could take it down to 4/5, but in the EE that does not work. It's much better for F/M since they can still attack and use Fighter HLAs (and some Wizard spells, but very few).
@CrevsDaak: I learn something new today! I was not aware of the Skull Trapx2 + Protection from Magical Damage tactics.
Implosion is every way better than Bigby's Clenched Fist. It ignores MR, casts at faster speed, does more damage (blunt damage) and holds the target w/o saves. Although Implosion's hold is 1 round, Bigby has a potential of holding for 4 rounds.
I dont think Abazigal can be hold. I believe all dragons are immune to movement restriction except Entangle.
I love maze its so versatile, I like to use it a lot on friendly non party npcs too to ensure they survive combat.
I've been using the clenched fist for the first time recently and am pleasantly surprised by how fun it is plus when u get kills with it looks super stylish
I've been using the clenched fist for the first time recently and am pleasantly surprised by how fun it is plus when u get kills with it looks super stylish
The greatest thing RA Salvatore ever wrote was the scene when Harkle Harpell created his own version of that spell, but instead of crushing or holding the giant hand flicked enemies across the room. It was awesome, and reminded me of the final bad guy in Super Smash Brothers.
Sometimes I prefer style over substance [/spoiler]
@bbear I never take Cleric spells into consideration :P I know I should do so, but I don't plays Clerics much, they just Heal, Harm and Resist Fear (literally!! I'm joking, I use a bunch more of things, but nothing as good as what I do with Mage spells)... I am not sure about Abazigal, but if he can be hold, I'm sure that's only in his human form. Protection from Energy gives Magical Damage resistance, and it stacks with Protection from the Elements, so if you have both you can use them and they are very cool (only Acid stays at Prot from the Elements' value, and MDR stays at Prot from Energy's), still, there are particular spells of lower levels (STILL, I won't waste a lvl5 slot for Acid/Electricity immunity).
I lack experience on level 8 spells, since at that level i play only sorceror. Here is the best pick for a sorc imo : Adhw : no discussion there. The only direct damage spell than can compete with the all mighty skull trap. Be careful, if you play solo (and are using as youshould the cloak of mirroring), skull trap is also party friendly and can be cadt must faster (instant) which makes it a lot stronger than adhw under improved alacrity
Simulcrum is far from being a great spell for a sorc. It doesn't have access to level 9 spells. Very OP on a FM though.
Power word blind seems nice but o have really never used it (obliterating everything with adhw seems more efficient)
Spell trigger is nice in a few situations (i like lower resist x3 myself)
Pierce shield is useful agaisnt some ennemies which are immune to lower resist. I believe (i may be wrong) that some (hive mother?) are like that.
Protection from energy is good if you don't know what you will be against. I took it in my last run and uses it a few times. Not necessary but not bad either.
My picks as a solo sorc : 1-adhw 2- spell trigger 3- prot from energy-> seldom used 4- pierce shield-> seldom used
I just got a sorcerer to level 8 spells recently, and took clenched fist to see what @CrevsDaak keeps going on about, a really I was disappointed. Maybe it's buggy on the iPad, but I just never seems do every thing it says on the tin. And it seems that anyone powerful enough to use it on is magic resistant. I like pierce shield very much.
In order to use Bigby successfully, you need to lower the foe's MR to nil first. There is no save in the first round, but saves can be in subsequent rounds. In order to use this spell effectively, someone needs to do a Spell Trigger: x3 Lower Resistance and another mage casts Bigby immediately. Afterward, have 3-4 fighters home in the held victim.
I also am of the opinion that incendiary cloud is underrated a bit here. I love the amount of damage it does, and it is responsible for the deaths of countless beholders for me. It is especially deadly in the hands of dragon disciple sorcerers with the 100% fire resistance.
Level 9 Top Tiers: -Chain Contingency: 5/5 -Time Stop: 5/5 -Imprisonment: 4.5/5 (touch spell) -Shapechange: 4.5/5 (mindflayer and iron golem) -Spell Trap: 4/5 (absorbs 30 levels and rememorize spell) -Wish: 4/5 (powerful but unpredictable)
Mid Tiers: -Spellstrike: 3.5/5 -Black Blade of Disaster: 3/5 -Meteor Swarm: 3/5 (4d10 fire damage for 4 rounds)
Low Tiers: -Bigby’s Crushing Hand: 2/5 (save -4 penalty on first round) -Freedom: 2/5 -Gate: 2/5 -Absolute Immunity: 1.5/5 -Wail of Banshee: 1.5/5 (area effect death, no save penalty) -Power Word Kill: 1/5 (foe 60+ HP is not affected) -Energy Drain: 1/5
i would have also added the level 10 to be compared with the 9th level since they share the same slots :
Worthy to be memorized (everything else does not compare to level 10 spells): -Time Stop: 5/5 -> game breakingly powerful. Especially in combo with improved alacrity -Shapechange: 4.5/5 (mindflayer and iron golem). Incredibly OP. The mindflayer + time stop combo is unfortunately unusable on most TOB bosses (abazigail, sendai) because it breaks their script -Chain Contingency: 4/5 -> Very srong but cannot be cast by project image and is therefore a lot less interesting than timestop
Noteworthy : -Wish: 3.5/5 : Sorceror only (they can cast it as much as they want using project image to get the option they want) mostly a convenience spell (to avoid resting). -Spell Trap: 3/5 very good but the Staff of Magi does the same. Therefore it is not worth the slot. -Imprisonment: 3/5 -> very powerful However you don't get the loot and most powerful ennemies (= the only ones which are not immediately slaughtered by time stop/IA) are immune to it - black blade of disaster 2.5/5 : FM only. Even for them i don't think it's worthwhile to waste a level 9 slot on that.
Everything else will never be used since the level 10 spells are much better
Sorc picks : 1- timestop 2- wish ( i hate resting) 3- shapechange 4- chain contigency -> used only on balthazar and melissane
I feel Power Word Kill and Energy Drain deserve improvement. Instead of the kill effect, Power Word Kill should do 60 damage. Is this overpowered? Horrid Wilting does 20d8 damage, save vs spell for 1/2 on a group of enemies. On average, this would do about 60 damages on a group of enemies.
Energy Drain should work like Melf's Minute Meteors. Instead of 20 meteors, you get 5 and each successful hit drains the target 2 levels.
Its too bad about Energy Drain too because its got a lot of the right things to be a great spell (pretty quick casting time, bypasses magic resistance, no save)...its just that so many good enemies are immune to level drain and against those that aren't what it does (as just a single spell cast) isn't even all that significant. Plus of course there are far, far, far better spells at this level.
I think Energy Drain should drain 2d4 levels like in NWN, instead of just a flat 2. That would make it more useful, and level drain in this game is far more dangerous than in NWN.
black blade of disaster is fine on paper, but it's lame in-game. it'd be an ok 8th level spell. i'd give it 1.5/5 shapechange is of course crazy and deserves 5/5 spellstrike is great and deserves 4/5 meteor swarm is fairly meh, i'd give it 2/5
power word kill is actually ok. if you get it fairly early, you can use it effectively against a good number of mages, so i'd give it 2.5/5 (if you play a controller mage or sorc, killing mages is by far the most important task anyway - take down protections, shoot it with fast stuff if neccesary and promptly power word kill it in record time, a satisfying and convenient way to go around)
also, gate is terrible and should get maybe 1/5. there's a *perfectly fine* 8th level spell for that.
level 9 spells are so disappointing in that you go the whole of soa being chases around by pit fiends and having meteors being dropped on you and then when you finally get them yourself theyre just very mediocre
Black blade is fun but a bit meh, perhaps u could u build a character around black blade of disaster that would be interring also can you back stab with it?
I love time-stop/imprisonment combination. For certain enemies who are so well protected with spell protections and innate immunities, I find it's just so much easier and so much less risk to my party. Plus most of the time I don't care about the loot as by that time my party has all the gear it needs.
Against protected ennemies, just use time stop shapeshift. During the time stop you should be able to ear the brains of 2-3 ennemies, no matter how powerful they are. And you get to keep the loot.
Comments
Indeed, Timestop + improved alacrity alone wins 99.9% of the fights in the game.
Project image (just as wish) allows you to do that without resting after each fight.
But since resting has no impact in the game, i could argue that the spell is useless
There is maybe 2 fights where it makes a difference (= where you need more than 1 spell book to obliterate all oposition) :
- sendai (because it's long)
- the final fight (because you cannot rest)
Don't get me wrong, it is my favorite spell in the game (because i hate resting) but actually it is not a decisive spell if you don't care about resting.
using the no summoning exploit is really a sad way to play the game (i know i have done it...) :
1- enter the area
2- cast project image
3- summon 5 planetars
4- have them kill the project image
5- watch the planetars slaughter everything
Alternatively, you could also CTRL+Y your way through the game; it's faster.
@Jlee : i also like it for the same reason. At level 15, you start to really feel powerful. At 18 you don't have to worry about anything.
You just come in the room, cast project image, slaugther everything, proceed to the next room. Only a few fights keep some level of difficulty.
Top Tiers:
-Abi-Dalzim’s Horrid Wilting: 5/5
-Power Word Blind: 5/5 (no save and quick speed)
-Simulacrum: 5/5 (level drained duplicate of caster, cannot be dispelled)
-Spell Trigger: 5/5 (level 6 and below)
Mid Tiers:
-Incendiary Cloud: 3.5/5 (20d4 fire damage per round for ten rounds; burn those drows in Sendai’s cave!)
-Symbol, Stun: 3.5/5 (area save -4)
-Bigby’s Clenched Fist: 3/5 (Implosion ignores MR, holds the target, casts faster and does more damage)
-Maze: 3/5
-Pierce Shield: 3/5 (Ruby Ray of Reversal + Lower Resistance)
-Symbol, Fear: 3/5 (area save -4)
Low Tiers:
-Summon Fiend: 2/5
-Protection from Energy: 1.5/5 (few enemies use more than 1 element at a time)
-Improved Mantle: 1.5/5
-Symbol, Death: 1.5/5 (affect below 60 HP only and no save penalty)
Spell Trigger Combo:
-x3 Sunfire (less effective in BG2EE)
-x3 Lower Resistance
-Improve Haste+Tenser's Transformation+Righteous Magic (Cleric Mage)
-x3 Bolt of Glory (Cleric Mage)
Protection from Energy is one of my favorites anyway, but Protection from the Elements is better and a level lower.
I'd make Bigby's Clenched Fist 4.5/5, in ToB, Melissan, Abazigal and a few more miss Hold immunity, just cast that spell and they'll be dead in a single round (literally!!).
Maze is cool with very powerful creatures, you cast it, set Thief traps and SPRUNG! (Get it?) the enemy dies! But that tactic don't works with more than one enemy
I'd rate Incendiary Cloud 4/5, it's VERY easy to exploit and it's very useful against Liches, best strategy to use can be found here, I already posted it too much times and I feel like spamming by posting it again.
For Simulacrum you can use Vhailor's Helm, in BG2 vanilla there was the posibility to use it with Mages because of Potion Swapping Exploit + Bag of Holding Item Recharge Exploit so you did not need to memorize the spell, that could take it down to 4/5, but in the EE that does not work. It's much better for F/M since they can still attack and use Fighter HLAs (and some Wizard spells, but very few).
Implosion is every way better than Bigby's Clenched Fist. It ignores MR, casts at faster speed, does more damage (blunt damage) and holds the target w/o saves. Although Implosion's hold is 1 round, Bigby has a potential of holding for 4 rounds.
I dont think Abazigal can be hold. I believe all dragons are immune to movement restriction except Entangle.
I've been using the clenched fist for the first time recently and am pleasantly surprised by how fun it is plus when u get kills with it looks super stylish
Sometimes I prefer style over substance
Protection from Energy gives Magical Damage resistance, and it stacks with Protection from the Elements, so if you have both you can use them and they are very cool (only Acid stays at Prot from the Elements' value, and MDR stays at Prot from Energy's), still, there are particular spells of lower levels (STILL, I won't waste a lvl5 slot for Acid/Electricity immunity).
Here is the best pick for a sorc imo :
Adhw : no discussion there. The only direct damage spell than can compete with the all mighty skull trap. Be careful, if you play solo (and are using as youshould the cloak of mirroring), skull trap is also party friendly and can be cadt must faster (instant) which makes it a lot stronger than adhw under improved alacrity
Simulcrum is far from being a great spell for a sorc. It doesn't have access to level 9 spells. Very OP on a FM though.
Power word blind seems nice but o have really never used it (obliterating everything with adhw seems more efficient)
Spell trigger is nice in a few situations (i like lower resist x3 myself)
Pierce shield is useful agaisnt some ennemies which are immune to lower resist. I believe (i may be wrong) that some (hive mother?) are like that.
Protection from energy is good if you don't know what you will be against. I took it in my last run and uses it a few times. Not necessary but not bad either.
My picks as a solo sorc :
1-adhw
2- spell trigger
3- prot from energy-> seldom used
4- pierce shield-> seldom used
Implosion would skip the lower MR process.
Level 9
Top Tiers:
-Chain Contingency: 5/5
-Time Stop: 5/5
-Imprisonment: 4.5/5 (touch spell)
-Shapechange: 4.5/5 (mindflayer and iron golem)
-Spell Trap: 4/5 (absorbs 30 levels and rememorize spell)
-Wish: 4/5 (powerful but unpredictable)
Mid Tiers:
-Spellstrike: 3.5/5
-Black Blade of Disaster: 3/5
-Meteor Swarm: 3/5 (4d10 fire damage for 4 rounds)
Low Tiers:
-Bigby’s Crushing Hand: 2/5 (save -4 penalty on first round)
-Freedom: 2/5
-Gate: 2/5
-Absolute Immunity: 1.5/5
-Wail of Banshee: 1.5/5 (area effect death, no save penalty)
-Power Word Kill: 1/5 (foe 60+ HP is not affected)
-Energy Drain: 1/5
Worthy to be memorized (everything else does not compare to level 10 spells):
-Time Stop: 5/5 -> game breakingly powerful. Especially in combo with improved alacrity
-Shapechange: 4.5/5 (mindflayer and iron golem). Incredibly OP. The mindflayer + time stop combo is unfortunately unusable on most TOB bosses (abazigail, sendai) because it breaks their script
-Chain Contingency: 4/5 -> Very srong but cannot be cast by project image and is therefore a lot less interesting than timestop
Noteworthy :
-Wish: 3.5/5 : Sorceror only (they can cast it as much as they want using project image to get the option they want) mostly a convenience spell (to avoid resting).
-Spell Trap: 3/5 very good but the Staff of Magi does the same. Therefore it is not worth the slot.
-Imprisonment: 3/5 -> very powerful However you don't get the loot and most powerful ennemies (= the only ones which are not immediately slaughtered by time stop/IA) are immune to it
- black blade of disaster 2.5/5 : FM only. Even for them i don't think it's worthwhile to waste a level 9 slot on that.
Everything else will never be used since the level 10 spells are much better
Sorc picks :
1- timestop
2- wish ( i hate resting)
3- shapechange
4- chain contigency -> used only on balthazar and melissane
Energy Drain should work like Melf's Minute Meteors. Instead of 20 meteors, you get 5 and each successful hit drains the target 2 levels.
shapechange is of course crazy and deserves 5/5
spellstrike is great and deserves 4/5
meteor swarm is fairly meh, i'd give it 2/5
power word kill is actually ok. if you get it fairly early, you can use it effectively against a good number of mages, so i'd give it 2.5/5 (if you play a controller mage or sorc, killing mages is by far the most important task anyway - take down protections, shoot it with fast stuff if neccesary and promptly power word kill it in record time, a satisfying and convenient way to go around)
also, gate is terrible and should get maybe 1/5. there's a *perfectly fine* 8th level spell for that.
Black blade is fun but a bit meh, perhaps u could u build a character around black blade of disaster that would be interring also can you back stab with it?
And you get to keep the loot.