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Who should sit upon the Iron Throne?? (Game of Thrones)

13

Comments

  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    edited June 2015
    Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish



    It's kinda sad though, after what the tv show writers did to Stannis and made everyone hate him. Now the only runner in the race with any amount of goodness in her is Daeny, which is a shame. Variety, people. I liked Stannis before last night; I thought he was a real contender. Not anymore--now I've only got Daeny to root for, and you're right, she's definitely made some stupid decisions over this season.

    Hhmmm, what about Bran? He has plenty of good in him.
    The North remembers, he is a Stark and a male Stark at that, which makes him the legitimate Head of House Stark and possibly Warden of the North. All of the north would follow him given the chance, well besides the Bolton's and the Karstark's. The Karstark's would probably come around given time.

    Post edited by SmilingSword on
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    Other (explain)



    It's kinda sad though, after what the tv show writers did to Stannis and made everyone hate him. Now the only runner in the race with any amount of goodness in her is Daeny, which is a shame. Variety, people. I liked Stannis before last night; I thought he was a real contender. Not anymore--now I've only got Daeny to root for, and you're right, she's definitely made some stupid decisions over this season.

    There's always Jon Snow as well. He may be a Bastard, but he's definitely following in "His father's" foot steps. He is noble and honorable. He is a VERY good leader such that even his enemies respect his choices (not always like, but at least respect).

    And besides, when has anything worked 'For the good guys' in Westeros?

  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,599
    Daenerys Targaryen
    As of last season, can't factor in the current season since I haven't seen it, it hasn't been released on Blu-ray, I would say Daenerys Targaryen. As much as I dislike her psychotic inbred family, she actually seems rational and cares about people other than herself.

    the_spyder
  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520
    Tyrion Lannister
    I can't see Bran sitting on the Iron Throne. I think he has another destiny waiting for him via the green sage magic stuff.

    As for Jon, yeah, he'd be great, but the poor man's got his hands full at Castle Black. Besides, he took an oath, and he's already proven that he's the honorable sort like his father. He doesn't break promises. He didn't even leave to go help his brother when Winterfell was taken, no matter how much he wanted to.

    I think the climax of the story, the way it's going now, is this: who cares about the flippin' throne when we've got the army of the dead knocking on our door? Despite everything that's happened, the different houses and characters are going to have to come together and deal with the white walker threat, or they'll all be killed. The fight for the throne is intriguing and keeps us entertained, but in the end, it'll be almost completely irrelevant.

    That's my theory, anyway.

    Blackraven
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    Other (explain)
    Well, Jon did already violate his oath as a Crow with Ygritte, so there's that. I do agree that he won't wantonly abandon his post, but if it were thrust upon him that might be a different matter entirely.

    I agree that the squabbling will continue among all those concerned until the final hour when it looks like all is lost and the White Walkers are knocking on everyone's door. However, remember that there are 3 fire breathing dragons and a worshiper of The Fire God all on the side of man. Since they are facing beings who seem only susceptible to (conveniently) fire, it seems appropriate that at least one of those two groups will have to play a pivotal role in the ultimate resolution.

    Unless GRRM decides that the ultimate solution should be to wipe everyone out and start again. But he isn't known for killing people off wantonly, now is he?

  • DrugarDrugar Member Posts: 1,566
    Daenerys Targaryen

    Well, Jon did already violate his oath as a Crow with Ygritte, so there's that. I do agree that he won't wantonly abandon his post, but if it were thrust upon him that might be a different matter entirely.

    He didn't take her as his wife, so he didn't forsake his oath. Though the Night's Watch brothers may think differently about that.

    It's kinda sad though, after what the tv show writers did to Stannis and made everyone hate him. Now the only runner in the race with any amount of goodness in her is Daeny, which is a shame. Variety, people. I liked Stannis before last night; I thought he was a real contender. Not anymore--now I've only got Daeny to root for, and you're right, she's definitely made some stupid decisions over this season.

    It really wasn't cool of Stannis to ritually burn the coolest kid in Westeros but...his men were freezing and starving. He couldn't go back, he couldn't go forward. Everyone there, including his daughter, was going to die in the cold.
    Add to that that he has been told, and firmly believes, that he IS the one true king and the only thing standing between the Kingdom and total annihilation by the Walkers. He can't afford to fail, he can't afford to even falter. He resisted having to sacrifice his daughter but later realised that he had no choice. It was her, or letting the Seven Kingdoms be destroyed (which would end up in her death anyway).

    I'm not saying he's a saint. But he didn't throw her on the pyre on a whim either.

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    Other (explain)
    Jon's own personal interpretation of the oath was that he was not to sleep with her at all. And although he didn't take her to wife, he said repeatedly (in the books) that he wanted too in his own mind which was enough for him to feel like he broke the oath.


  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520
    Tyrion Lannister
    Drugar said:

    Well, Jon did already violate his oath as a Crow with Ygritte, so there's that. I do agree that he won't wantonly abandon his post, but if it were thrust upon him that might be a different matter entirely.

    He didn't take her as his wife, so he didn't forsake his oath. Though the Night's Watch brothers may think differently about that.

    It's kinda sad though, after what the tv show writers did to Stannis and made everyone hate him. Now the only runner in the race with any amount of goodness in her is Daeny, which is a shame. Variety, people. I liked Stannis before last night; I thought he was a real contender. Not anymore--now I've only got Daeny to root for, and you're right, she's definitely made some stupid decisions over this season.

    It really wasn't cool of Stannis to ritually burn the coolest kid in Westeros but...his men were freezing and starving. He couldn't go back, he couldn't go forward. Everyone there, including his daughter, was going to die in the cold.
    Add to that that he has been told, and firmly believes, that he IS the one true king and the only thing standing between the Kingdom and total annihilation by the Walkers. He can't afford to fail, he can't afford to even falter. He resisted having to sacrifice his daughter but later realised that he had no choice. It was her, or letting the Seven Kingdoms be destroyed (which would end up in her death anyway).

    I'm not saying he's a saint. But he didn't throw her on the pyre on a whim either.
    But he didn't have to burn her. He's completely against burning in the books, and when he finally comes around to the idea, he insists only on burning thieves. Vagabonds. Tried and true criminals. And the next morning, the snow still stops. Same effect, less of a loss. I don't understand why the tv show couldn't do that instead, except that they wanted to shock their viewers and make everyone instantly hate Stannis.

    Remember when Melissandre took Gendry (Robert Baratheon's bastard) hostage for his royal blood? All she did was use some leeches, burned those same leeches in the fire, and soon after, Robb and Joffrey were killed--two of the three names she'd chosen. Yeah, Gendry got hurt, but he wasn't killed outright, especially in such a gruesome manner as burning at the stake. I don't understand why, in the rules they've already established, that even just a little bit of royal blood can kill two high-positioned people, they couldn't do the same for Stannis' daughter. It just doesn't make sense.

    (For the record, I don't know why Balon Greyjoy's not dead, since he was the third name they dropped with the leeches. He is in the books. I blame the show writers for never going back to the Iron Isles.)

    Blackraven
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    Other (explain)
    There's absolutely a desire to up the shock value for the viewership. In that I think the writers did what they thought they had too; particularly in light of the fact that Stannis was gaining popularity. They needed something to derail that trend. Just my opinion.

    As far as the scale of blood letting necessary is concerned, it "Might" be that killing one person (even one VERY important person) only takes a few drops. If they wanted to change a significant outcome like the siege, that required more than simply a few drops. There's a logic there, I suppose. There's also the concept of escalation. The more they want the steeper the price has to be. That is typical of demonic pacts. The first few perks are free(ish). The more they rely upon the 'Help' the more the demon (or whatever) ups the price.

    It definitely makes me wonder who or what exactly she is praying to.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,296
    Daenerys Targaryen
    think next year we'll get iron islanders. there's already a leaked casting call for a piratey type guy.

  • TheElfTheElf Member Posts: 798

    Oh, don't get me wrong, I really liked his personality and how he is written. But that doesn't change my point above. At every single choice he has made, it was the red witch who coerced him into it. This great destiny that he is supposed to have, is all her manipulating him up to it. This charge for Winterfell was her doing and he would have known better had she not convinced him to do it. If left to his own devices, he would have never left his castle and certainly would not now be the power that he is today.

    Oh, her magical powers are real (within the context of the story). Certainly her 'plan' has the backing of some REALLY effective powers, but she is basically using him as a pawn and making HIM pay the price for everything.

    And once he wins (always assuming that he does), she will have no more need of him. I bet his life expectancy is on the short side once that happens. Or maybe she will keep him around as a puppet king?

    Fair enough. Although I think Stannis is definitely still wary of her. Even Meli has grown on me a bit, I'm curious what her pov chapters will be like.

    Grr. The more I think about it, the more likely I think it is Shireen does get sacrificed in the books. That whole theme of being willing to sacrifice what matters most to you has been hovering around Stannis since the beginning.

  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520
    Tyrion Lannister
    Oh.

    My.

    God.

    They just killed Jon Snow.

    [Deleted User]JuliusBorisov
  • Daenerys Targaryen
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    NonnahswriterJuliusBorisovBelgarathMTH
  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,599
    Daenerys Targaryen

    Oh.

    My.

    God.

    They just killed Jon Snow.
    They can't do that. It must have been a doppelganger.

    JuliusBorisov
  • NonnahswriterNonnahswriter Member Posts: 2,520
    Tyrion Lannister

    Oh.

    My.

    God.

    They just killed Jon Snow.
    They can't do that. It must have been a doppelganger.
    #whateverhelpsyousleepatnight

    Okay, in all seriousness, the biggest fan theory right now is that they're gonna bring him back with freaky Melissandre's magic lord of light powers. We actually did have those guys in the earlier seasons who died, but came back to life, supposedly thanks to the same god. They could go back to that plotline and bring Jon back that way.

    But if they don't... ;_;

    JuliusBorisov
  • TheElfTheElf Member Posts: 798
    The worst was
    ruining Stannis just to kill him in the next episode.

    imo.

    Nonnahswriter
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    edited June 2015
    Other (explain)
    Well, I guess that season finale really leveled the playing field a bit.

    @Shandyr - I'm there with ya.

    I am not sure where I said this before but here's my theory on how it will all end. they will fight and bicker among themselves until it is too late. Then the White Walkers will come in and slaughter all of them. The end. Just when you think Martin will "Save the day", he is gonna go all Cthulhu on our collective back sides.

    [Deleted User]
  • TheElfTheElf Member Posts: 798
    Lol. I'm half hoping it turns into a sort of zombie movie in the end where the Others have taken over the world and Tyrion and Arya team up buddy cop style trying to stay alive. Bronn should be there too.

    Nonnahswriter
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,708
    Daenerys Targaryen
    TheElf said:

    The worst was

    ruining Stannis just to kill him in the next episode.

    imo.


    We didn't see his death. Brienne could have just stopped her sword in the last second. I think there's a reason for the fact we didn't see the final part of her sword move.





    I VERY MUCH agree with this review:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/06/15/game-of-thrones-season-5-episode-10-review-mothers-mercy/

    Especially in the Stannis's part:

    Until last week, Stannis remained one of the more complicated, interesting characters in HBO’s fantasy drama. He was ruthless and utilitarian in his quest to become king, but he was never wicked in the same sense that Joffrey or Ramsay are wicked. His burning of Shireen was wicked, though, and foolish and out of character I think, still. It doomed him, but in the books his doom remains uncertain, as does his daughter’s fate.

    I never thought Stannis would be king, or at least not king for long, but he was the only one of any of these kings and pretenders—including Daenerys herself—who saw clearly that the realm itself, that all of Westeros and the whole entire world, were in peril.
    “I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne,” he tells Jon at one point in the books. What other king says such a thing, puts aside his own life and his own world and kills his own family all because he’s been led to believe that not only is the world coming to an end, but he alone can save it? He was thoroughly convinced of his role in all of this by Melisandre, and she was wrong.

    In the books he sees a glimpse of it, of his fate, and tells Davos, “I know the cost! Last night, gazing into that hearth, I saw things in the flames as well. I saw a king, a crown of fire on his brows, burning… burning, Davos. His own crown consumed his flesh and turned him into ash. Do you think I need Melisandre to tell me what that means? Or you?”



    Why, oh why do they change the things in the series?

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    Other (explain)
    bengoshi said:




    We didn't see his death. Brienne could have just stopped her sword in the last second. I think there's a reason for the fact we didn't see the final part of her sword move.

    I've read a lot of speculation online pretty much suggesting this. I guess we will see in 2016. The real question is, will we see a book before then?
    bengoshi said:

    Why, oh why do they change the things in the series?

    I am merely spitballing here but I almost wonder if Martin isn't treating the TV show almost as a 2nd pass at the story; a final draft if you will, smoothing things out that didn't quite go as he anticipated in the book series. Certainly it is streamlined in places and made significantly less convoluted.

    I personally have only gotten part way through book 3, but I hear that 4 and 5 tend to meander quite a bit. So this may simply be a 'tightning' of things? Just a guess on my part.

  • DungeonnoobDungeonnoob Member Posts: 315
    Daenerys Targaryen
    D.Targaryen is my last hope,unless her dragons starve to death and her army drowns when they attempt to cross the ocean,but does anyone know the backround of the whitewalkers or what drives them,or are they just pawns of a unknown identity?

    I haven't read the books,i have no idea whats coming.

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,017
    Other (explain)
    That's the point. No one knows now. The show brought us all up (more or less) to the end of the last written book. It's all virgin territory from here on out. The only ones who know what comes next are Martin himself and the show runners who are ramping up for season 6.

    I personally think that they will kill each other off till there's only one left standing. And then the White walkers are going to come in and massacre everyone remaining and give a big old reset button to the entire world. That will effectively null and void ALL of the plot lines because EVERYONE will be dead.

    NonnahswriterJuliusBorisov
  • SmilingSwordSmilingSword Member Posts: 827
    Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish
    The season final left one hell of a bad taste in my mouth. I'm not talking about Stannis or King Crow, but Doran Martell letting Myrcella get poisoned. What the hell? He is way too careful to let that happen. In the books one of the Sand Snakes kisses his hand or ring I can't remember which and as soon as shes gone he's checking for puncture wounds. Also where in the nine hells is his daughter? She's a gods damned perspective character in the books. I am really starting to feel the show underplays the most interesting and intelligent characters the books have to offer. Roose Bolton is another one, all the focus is on his bastard son.

    “ His face was clean-shaved, smooth-skinned, ordinary, not handsome but not quite plain. Though Roose had been in battles, he bore no scars. Though well past forty, he was as yet unwrinkled, with scarce a line to tell of the passage of time. His lips were so thin that when he pressed them together they seem to vanish altogether. There was an agelessness about him, a stillness; on Roose Bolton’s face, rage and joy looked much the same. All he and Ramsay had in common were their eyes. His eyes are ice. Reek wondered if he ever cried. If so, do the tears feel cold upon his cheeks?

    Once, a boy called Theon Greyjoy had enjoyed tweaking Bolton as they sat at council with Robb Stark, mocking his soft voice and making japes about leeches. He must have been mad. This is no man to jape with. You had only to look at Bolton to know that he had more cruelty in his pinky toe than all the Freys combined.

    – Theon Greyjoy

    “ Roose has no feelings, you see. Those leeches that he loves so well sucked all the passions out of him years ago. He does not love, he does not hate, he does not grieve. This is a game to him, mildly diverting. Some men hunt, some hawk, some tumble dice. Roose plays with men. You and me, these Freys, Lord Manderly, his plump new wife, even his bastard, we are but his playthings. ”

    – Barbrey Dustin, to Theon Greyjoy

    Those 2 quotes alone show you just how terrifying Roose Bolton is and in the show he is just another noble lord.

    Also I have to say I liked the Dorne story because Bron, but at the same time they could of done so much with it and they did so very little. Maybe if they had kept it the same as the books and just added Bron and Jamie it could of been great, as it stands it's way too short and most of it just felt rushed. I would of loved to see the Darkstar, evil purple eye'd bastard that he is.

    Also on a side note, so Sansa right, do you think she landed in some really high snow?

    JuliusBorisov
  • DungeonnoobDungeonnoob Member Posts: 315
    Daenerys Targaryen
    I did some research and i think The Children of The Woods might be a strong wildcard,they seem like a very strong collective with abilities to control any living thing,and that could include dragons,with Bran Stark help of course.

  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    Other (explain)

    does anyone know the backround of the whitewalkers or what drives them,or are they just pawns of a unknown identity?

    I haven't read the books,i have no idea whats coming.

    @Dungeonnoob As the name implies, the white walkers are truly 'other' and no one knows their motivations. They may just be a (the) living expression of winter and have no other goal than to bring winter to the world. My fanboy theory is that the song of ice and fire is the story of the clash of Surtur (the red god) and Thrym (the great other); this is the start of ragnarok. Which means @the_spyder could be right -- this could actually end with everyone dead.

    And, yeah, the children are the wildcard -- they might know what happened with the seasons and how to repair the damage. (pet theory -- the Valyarians messed everything up when they created the land of eternal summer, "the dream of every common man") Bran could be the last hero who saves the world.

    I think @bengoshi is right about

    [Spoiler] Stannis. At this point in the books Stannis is leading an army of Northerners who worship the old gods and seems ready to ditch the lord of light. I'm guessing that Stannis survives but comes to oppose Melisandre. As Stannis tells us when first appears in the books -- he will adopt whatever god best helps him take the throne and, right now, that looks like the old gods.

    And @Nonnashwriter is right about Jon Snow. If he is dead he will come back -- as the 1000th lord commander of the wall. His death frees him from his oath, someone else will become the 999th commander. Which will allow Snow to take back winterfell and, once Sansa is installed as lady of winterfell, Jon will take the oath again to become the 1000th commander of the wall. And then Sam shows up as a wizard who knows how to use obsidian candles to kill the others. [/spoiler]

    Or they all die and a new planet called 'earth' emerges from the wreckage.

    JuliusBorisov
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,708
    Daenerys Targaryen


    "You know you've played too much BG when you watch this GoT teaser and think about the BG1 ending cinematics".

    BelgarathMTH
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited February 2016
    I still wonder how the hell they are going to do this. The show now has to split off on a completely different path from what Martin is planning to do with his last two books. And that's assuming he ever even finishes them. I always feared from an early age that Robert Jordan would die before he finished the Wheel of Time and I opened up Yahoo News one day many years ago and saw, much to my dismay, that was in fact what had happened. And Jordan (who eventually was taking 2 years on each book) was writing at a sprinter's pace compared to Martin. SIX years between "A Feast For Crows" and "A Dance With Dragons" and now already FIVE between that and the new one?? The guy is 67 and not exactly in the best shape I've ever seen....and his writing pace is positively glacial.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,296
    Daenerys Targaryen

    I still wonder how the hell they are going to do this. The show now has to split off on a completely different path from what Martin is planning to do with his last two books. ..

    Not so much "completely different". The showrunners have notes from what he planned to do. So Martin has come out and said he's going to make a new twist that the showrunner's can't do because the character is dead on the show. That doesn't really mean much. So he's conceived of a great twist, so whatever that great idea is probably doesn't ultimately matter to the overall plot of the series.

    Martin has gone down so many tangents that I don't think he even knows what to focus on anymore. What's your story about George? The whole fourth book (A Feast for Crows) was really basically a side novel that introduced a ton of new elements that probably aren't very important because they hadn't been mentioned or been important in the first three books.

    What seems to be coming next and important in the books is the Battle of Ice between Stannis and Ramsey Bolton. The show runners may have tipped George's hand that things don't turn out in Stannis' favor. They just cut out George's cool story about how it didn't work out for Stannis. They dropped a few hours from airtime to focus on other characters.

    The other thing seems to be coming is the Battle of Fire where Sir Barristan Selmy is defending Mereen from incoming Ironborn, mercenary companies and other forces.

    You may notice that neither of those things are directly related to coming to a conclusion with the whole Iron Throne thing or the White Walker invasion. It's really tough to say where this thing is going, I don't think George knows either to be honest. With the Iron Throne, eventually George is going to get around to saying okay, all these contenders for the Iron Throne well it a) doesn't matter anymore because everything's changed or b) this one is the one that is going to rule. All this other stuff is just atmosphere. Really cool stuff, don't get me wrong, but ultimately it would be like if Star Wars added 15 subplots about Greedo, Jabba, and Bobba Fett having other adventures - eventually you have to get back to Luke's confrontation with Darth Vader and the Emperor.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 7,704
    Martin is falling prey to the same curse that Jordan did. He's fallen too in love with his world, and has abandoned to the story-arc to focus on the most minor details. The Wheel of Time was in fine form even up through six massive books, but then for at least the next 4 1/2 of them the story got bogged down in more minor subplots and new, meaningless characters. In two of the books (Path of Daggers and Crossroads of Twilight) literally NOTHING happened. Only staring death in the face caused Jordan to get back on track, and he was doomed to never even come close to finishing. Even when Sanderson came in with the express intent of wrapping things up, it took him 3 more massive books, and even then, they read like a Cliff Notes version of the rest of the series because there was so many nonsense loose-ends to tie up.

    smeagolheartkillerrabbit
  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    Other (explain)
    @jjstraka34 I don't agree. I think what makes SOIF so compelling is that it is using a story arc that is as hard to figure out as the history is based on. It's full of false leads, McGuffins and shaggy dogs -- just like the real war of the roses! No one -- no one -- could have predicted the outcome of the real war of roses:

    Wait, some bastard with the weakest possible claim to the throne -- who has the temerity to show up in chapter 19 absent *any* foreshadowing -- is the guy who wins it all? Wot?! That's not the way you tell a story! But it is what happened . . .

    Anyway, the iron throne is a McGuffin. The real questions are: who is the prince who is promised and will the price / last hero prevail. Someone on Reddit figured it out and I was stunned when I saw all the pieces fall into place -- its such a spoiler that I won't even put it in a tag but the answer is out there and it is brilliant.

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