I found a weird bug. I stored two healing spells in minor spell matrix with Aerie and casted to a party member. The spell matrix failed and i get a message spell failed. When i cast to myself, it works fine. I am in 0 range to party members but still it isn't working.
Couple issues I've noticed (BGEE v2.5.17, Steam). I noticed with TnB v0.8.26 (and just checked that it's still present in 0.8.28) that female Half-Elf Sorcerer w/Magus Kit is using a male model (is it called paperdoll in this game?).
Also with the Magus kit, the readme I have (old, though... v0.7 from the front page) mentions the Magus Kit is supposed to have access to a couple of the weapon style proficiencies, but I do not see them during character creation. Was this removed at some point, or is this also a bug?
Mod list: DLC Merger v1.2 More Styles for Mages v1.55 The Picture Standard v0.7.1 BGEE Spawn v0.3 BG1 Unfinished Business v14 Continue Playing After Defeating BGEE Free Action Override Tome and Blood v0.8.28 Faiths and Powers v0.75.20 Might and Guile v3.8.13 Tweaks Anthology v7 Scales of Balance v5.14
Edit: EE Keeper is claiming the appearance is set for Cleric Female Elf. Looks the same as male to me... maybe that's the way it's supposed to be?
Ok. Out of curiosity, if I wanted to make a backup of the current mod load for easy restoration after doing a lot of testing, other than the override folder, what else do I have to grab a backup of?
EDIT: I just did some testing. I completely uninstalled everything, including the DLC merger mod, then reinstalled the DLC merger mod and only the Tome and Blood mod. Paperdoll for Magus kit still looks male. As near as I can tell, it's only this kit that's having the issue, too. I double checked the female Cleric, too, just so I could be sure that it wasn't my fault for not realizing what the paperdoll should look like. Female cleric is obviously female to me. :P
EDIT2: I've noticed another weird issue with Magus kit that seems like it might be intermittent or inconsistent in its effects. The number of spells that I have available for casting seems further off than expected? With a Cha of 10, it's telling me I can't cast any spells (base 3 - 1 for kit should be 2). With Cha 19, it's telling me I can only cast 2 (base 3 - 1 for kit + 2 for Cha bonus should be 4). Looking in EE Keeper for these does appear to show the correct 2 & 4 values for what I should be able to cast, but then in game they're being reduced by an additional 2 (a script somewhere?).
If I rest, I get them back, but only for a moment. Soon as I look at the available spells and then click out of them, it reduces the available by 2 again. Again, near as I can tell, this is only the Magus kit.
EDIT3: Sorry, should've specified that the above issue with the number of available spells slots is for level 1 spells at character level 1 at the start of the game (for BGEE).
Investigating this further, it looks like there's some kind of a script in there somewhere that's changing the paperdoll? I did some testing where I started a new game as female half-elf sorcerer with the magus kit (and the paperdoll would still look like the male cleric), then used EEKeeper to edit the auto-save that is generated at game start. I found that in the auto save, it shows the paperdoll (appearance in EEKeeper) as mage female elf. If I save this, make no edits, then load this edited save in game, for about a second after loading, the paperdoll is that of the female mage, then changes to the cleric. However, in the case of this edited save, it properly switches to the female version. I'm really not sure what the difference is and why this is happening.
Alright now that I have been accepted to grad school and have 7 weeks to kill... time to reexamine Tome and Blood and see where I can take it. It might be time for another Grand Overhaul™...
I think a fundamental issue that is present is that mages and sorcerers are almost impossible to balance against each other (disregarding, of course, the rampant problems in the "linear warriors, quadratic mages" paradigm to which 2E/3E subscribes).
I think modded Mage is in a pretty good place between the cantrips (e.g. do something while you wait for your spells) and the spontaneous specialist spells (e.g. have regular access to your kit's more important abilities). However, both of these tread on the toes of the aspects of Sorcerer that make them powerful and unique in vanilla. Unfortunately, I do not think that there is a large enough design space to allow for Mages and Sorcerers to coexist without one's special features treading on the other's while still making each class' mechanics unique and interesting.
Thus, I suspect that the solution to the Sorcerer vs. Mage problem doesn't lie in buffing Sorcerer up to the place of modded Mage, but instead making vanilla Sorcerer a Mage kit and transforming modded Sorcerer into something unique and different.
In pen and paper, the thematic differences in Sorcerer and Mage (Wizard) are that Mages approach magic from a perspective of scholarly investigation while Sorcerers gain magic through the latent arcane energies present in their blood from otherworldly ancestry. Pen and paper implements this thematic difference mechanically by making wizard an Int-based prepared spell class and Sorcerer a Charisma-based spontaneous spell class.
Fundamentally, I don't think that having Sorcerers have innate knowledge of the same spells that Mages can learn and cast makes any sense from a thematic standpoint. Why would a Sorcerer's innate magical energy manifest itself in an identical way to a Magic Missile, for example. 5e addresses this partially by having specific Wizard (Mage) exclusive spells, including any of the spells that includes the name of the creator (e.g. Melf's Acid Arrow, Tenser's Transformation, Bigby's Verbing Hand). Unfortunately, 5e itself doesn't really solve the Wizard/Sorcerer balance issue either, as it is pretty widely regarded that Wizards are just strictly better in most situations, with Sorcerers only being stronger in combat-focused campaigns where a Wizard's utility is rendered useless.
So let's say that the magic that a Sorcerer manifests are not spells in the context of magical formulae that Mages can memorize and deploy multiple times per day. What would such a system look like? Magic systems in RPGs often follow similar patterns, and there are about a dozen basic methods through which special abilities are structured (be they themed as spells, psionics, the Force, or something else). @subtledoctor has explored one of these methods (body magic, the use of health as the magical resource) through his psionics mod Will to Power.
If I wanted to design a Sorcerer with exclusive concern for evoking their theme, I'd have Sorcerers receive randomly selected abilities (with effects influenced by their heritage/bloodline) upon each level up. Eventually, the spells would be more powerful as the Sorcerer mastered their powers. A Dragon Disciple might start with the the ability to generate protective scales for brief periods of time and then eventually have that ability mature into permanent scales that grant protection and elemental resistance. A preliminary breath weapon may be a short range effect (similar to Burning Hands in size), only to grow into an impressive large cone of flame at higher levels.
I do not think the above idea is good from a mechanical or player perspective, however. While I think some uncertainty in class/magic progression would help in strengthening the Sorcerer's theme, that same uncertainty is also likely to cause annoyance and dissatisfaction, not to mention metagaming (e.g. reloading your level-up until you get an ability you like).
An alternative system would be to take a page out of Paths of Power, which organize magical effects into groups (e.g. Burning Hands > Flame Arrow > FIreball...) and has Mages select spells by slowly moving through each path (e.g. I can either level up my Fire tree to get Fireball or level up my Acid tree to get Horrid Wilting). This doesn't really mesh well with the "fantasy" (in the game design sense) of Sorcerers though; in fact, such a mechanic would be better suited to Wizards/Mages due to its inherent sense of progression through structured understanding of magic.
Another option would be to use a words of power format, where you combine known effects to generate magic (for example, Fireball would be a Moderate Fire Burst and Acid Arrow would be a Long-range Acid Projectile). Like Paths of Power, I feel like this is also too structured for Sorcery, in a way, in that the spells themselves are literally formulaic and you just combine phrases you know to achieve the effect you want (which is thematically what normal academic magic is in Faerun).
Perhaps anyone else has ideas about how to tackle making Sorcerers feel distinct in a world where Mages have more continuous access to both magical attacks and a small amount of spontaneous casting ability.
@ThacoBell thst's weird, she should get one as a CLAB effect. Did you install it mid-game?
At any rate you can type this in the console:
C:CreateItem("d5cantw")
I noticed this, too, but just thought the Cantrip wand was a PC only feature, not for the NPCs, so didn't say anything.
I also noticed that she only has one pre-assigned proficiency point and, being a mage with Scales of Balance installed, means she won't get any more going forward.
I was digging through my 3E source material looking for inspiration and came across the psionic Erudite from Complete Psionics. Mechanically, an Erudite is to a Psion what a Sorcerer was to a Wizard.
Erudites had the same amount of daily power points as Psions and a maximum power level that scaled at the same rate as a Psion's. Erudites began with [2+Int modifier] powers known, compared to the Psion's flat 3, and learned 2 new powers at each level-up. They had full access to the main Psion/Wilder power list, and were even able to learn discipline powers, which were otherwise exclusively available to specialized psions, at a one tier penalty (e.g. an Erudite would have to be 7th level to access "3rd level" discipline powers).
Erudite's special twist was that they were limited (rather aggressively, 1 at 1st and 11 at 20th) on the number of unique powers they could manifest. Thus, as a day went on, a Erudite would have slowly become specialized in whatever they had been doing that day. Upon resting, it would reset.
Now I'm not entirely sure if this kind of system would even be possible in the Infinity Engine, but I think it is an interesting concept that might be worth exploring.
Another possible option to explore themed powers that are they slowly upgraded and refined is the 3E Ardent (also from Complete Psionics). Ardents begin with two domains of powers (e.g. Fire and Communication) and occasionally gain additional domains at various levelups. They select new powers from any of their currently available domains. This is somewhat similar to the Paths of Power idea, but I think the limit on the number of domains and ability to learn any appropriately leveled power from chosen domains makes it a bit more freeform and "organic", which might fit better into the fantasy of Sorcerers.
This is also very similar to how 5th edition Unearthed Arcana handles Mystics (5e psionics). Mystics know several disciplines, each of which contains several powers at various costs of psi points. For example, the Mastery of Fire discipline contains abilities that are similar in power to Burning Hands, Fireball, and Resist FIre.
I think that a system like this might be particularly appealing because you could have Sorcerer bloodlines limit which disciplines a given Sorcerer may choose, much like how a 3E cleric's deity restricts their choice of domain. A Sorcerer with Dryad blood might have access to Earth, Plant, and Charm disciplines whereas a Sorcerer with Red Dragon blood would have Fire, Might, and Evil.
I kinda like that second idea, where bloodline informs which 'disciplines/paths' you have available. So, a red dragon adept could focus on fire or might. Cool
Comments
Note: Nwm it is a vanilla game issue.
Also with the Magus kit, the readme I have (old, though... v0.7 from the front page) mentions the Magus Kit is supposed to have access to a couple of the weapon style proficiencies, but I do not see them during character creation. Was this removed at some point, or is this also a bug?
Mod list:
DLC Merger v1.2
More Styles for Mages v1.55
The Picture Standard v0.7.1
BGEE Spawn v0.3
BG1 Unfinished Business v14
Continue Playing After Defeating BGEE
Free Action Override
Tome and Blood v0.8.28
Faiths and Powers v0.75.20
Might and Guile v3.8.13
Tweaks Anthology v7
Scales of Balance v5.14
Edit: EE Keeper is claiming the appearance is set for Cleric Female Elf. Looks the same as male to me... maybe that's the way it's supposed to be?
EDIT: I just did some testing. I completely uninstalled everything, including the DLC merger mod, then reinstalled the DLC merger mod and only the Tome and Blood mod. Paperdoll for Magus kit still looks male. As near as I can tell, it's only this kit that's having the issue, too. I double checked the female Cleric, too, just so I could be sure that it wasn't my fault for not realizing what the paperdoll should look like. Female cleric is obviously female to me. :P
EDIT2: I've noticed another weird issue with Magus kit that seems like it might be intermittent or inconsistent in its effects. The number of spells that I have available for casting seems further off than expected? With a Cha of 10, it's telling me I can't cast any spells (base 3 - 1 for kit should be 2). With Cha 19, it's telling me I can only cast 2 (base 3 - 1 for kit + 2 for Cha bonus should be 4). Looking in EE Keeper for these does appear to show the correct 2 & 4 values for what I should be able to cast, but then in game they're being reduced by an additional 2 (a script somewhere?).
If I rest, I get them back, but only for a moment. Soon as I look at the available spells and then click out of them, it reduces the available by 2 again. Again, near as I can tell, this is only the Magus kit.
EDIT3: Sorry, should've specified that the above issue with the number of available spells slots is for level 1 spells at character level 1 at the start of the game (for BGEE).
I think a fundamental issue that is present is that mages and sorcerers are almost impossible to balance against each other (disregarding, of course, the rampant problems in the "linear warriors, quadratic mages" paradigm to which 2E/3E subscribes).
I think modded Mage is in a pretty good place between the cantrips (e.g. do something while you wait for your spells) and the spontaneous specialist spells (e.g. have regular access to your kit's more important abilities). However, both of these tread on the toes of the aspects of Sorcerer that make them powerful and unique in vanilla. Unfortunately, I do not think that there is a large enough design space to allow for Mages and Sorcerers to coexist without one's special features treading on the other's while still making each class' mechanics unique and interesting.
Thus, I suspect that the solution to the Sorcerer vs. Mage problem doesn't lie in buffing Sorcerer up to the place of modded Mage, but instead making vanilla Sorcerer a Mage kit and transforming modded Sorcerer into something unique and different.
In pen and paper, the thematic differences in Sorcerer and Mage (Wizard) are that Mages approach magic from a perspective of scholarly investigation while Sorcerers gain magic through the latent arcane energies present in their blood from otherworldly ancestry. Pen and paper implements this thematic difference mechanically by making wizard an Int-based prepared spell class and Sorcerer a Charisma-based spontaneous spell class.
Fundamentally, I don't think that having Sorcerers have innate knowledge of the same spells that Mages can learn and cast makes any sense from a thematic standpoint. Why would a Sorcerer's innate magical energy manifest itself in an identical way to a Magic Missile, for example. 5e addresses this partially by having specific Wizard (Mage) exclusive spells, including any of the spells that includes the name of the creator (e.g. Melf's Acid Arrow, Tenser's Transformation, Bigby's Verbing Hand). Unfortunately, 5e itself doesn't really solve the Wizard/Sorcerer balance issue either, as it is pretty widely regarded that Wizards are just strictly better in most situations, with Sorcerers only being stronger in combat-focused campaigns where a Wizard's utility is rendered useless.
So let's say that the magic that a Sorcerer manifests are not spells in the context of magical formulae that Mages can memorize and deploy multiple times per day. What would such a system look like? Magic systems in RPGs often follow similar patterns, and there are about a dozen basic methods through which special abilities are structured (be they themed as spells, psionics, the Force, or something else). @subtledoctor has explored one of these methods (body magic, the use of health as the magical resource) through his psionics mod Will to Power.
If I wanted to design a Sorcerer with exclusive concern for evoking their theme, I'd have Sorcerers receive randomly selected abilities (with effects influenced by their heritage/bloodline) upon each level up. Eventually, the spells would be more powerful as the Sorcerer mastered their powers. A Dragon Disciple might start with the the ability to generate protective scales for brief periods of time and then eventually have that ability mature into permanent scales that grant protection and elemental resistance. A preliminary breath weapon may be a short range effect (similar to Burning Hands in size), only to grow into an impressive large cone of flame at higher levels.
I do not think the above idea is good from a mechanical or player perspective, however. While I think some uncertainty in class/magic progression would help in strengthening the Sorcerer's theme, that same uncertainty is also likely to cause annoyance and dissatisfaction, not to mention metagaming (e.g. reloading your level-up until you get an ability you like).
An alternative system would be to take a page out of Paths of Power, which organize magical effects into groups (e.g. Burning Hands > Flame Arrow > FIreball...) and has Mages select spells by slowly moving through each path (e.g. I can either level up my Fire tree to get Fireball or level up my Acid tree to get Horrid Wilting). This doesn't really mesh well with the "fantasy" (in the game design sense) of Sorcerers though; in fact, such a mechanic would be better suited to Wizards/Mages due to its inherent sense of progression through structured understanding of magic.
Another option would be to use a words of power format, where you combine known effects to generate magic (for example, Fireball would be a Moderate Fire Burst and Acid Arrow would be a Long-range Acid Projectile). Like Paths of Power, I feel like this is also too structured for Sorcery, in a way, in that the spells themselves are literally formulaic and you just combine phrases you know to achieve the effect you want (which is thematically what normal academic magic is in Faerun).
Perhaps anyone else has ideas about how to tackle making Sorcerers feel distinct in a world where Mages have more continuous access to both magical attacks and a small amount of spontaneous casting ability.
I also noticed that she only has one pre-assigned proficiency point and, being a mage with Scales of Balance installed, means she won't get any more going forward.
Erudites had the same amount of daily power points as Psions and a maximum power level that scaled at the same rate as a Psion's. Erudites began with [2+Int modifier] powers known, compared to the Psion's flat 3, and learned 2 new powers at each level-up. They had full access to the main Psion/Wilder power list, and were even able to learn discipline powers, which were otherwise exclusively available to specialized psions, at a one tier penalty (e.g. an Erudite would have to be 7th level to access "3rd level" discipline powers).
Erudite's special twist was that they were limited (rather aggressively, 1 at 1st and 11 at 20th) on the number of unique powers they could manifest. Thus, as a day went on, a Erudite would have slowly become specialized in whatever they had been doing that day. Upon resting, it would reset.
Now I'm not entirely sure if this kind of system would even be possible in the Infinity Engine, but I think it is an interesting concept that might be worth exploring.
____________________________________________________________________
Another possible option to explore themed powers that are they slowly upgraded and refined is the 3E Ardent (also from Complete Psionics). Ardents begin with two domains of powers (e.g. Fire and Communication) and occasionally gain additional domains at various levelups. They select new powers from any of their currently available domains. This is somewhat similar to the Paths of Power idea, but I think the limit on the number of domains and ability to learn any appropriately leveled power from chosen domains makes it a bit more freeform and "organic", which might fit better into the fantasy of Sorcerers.
This is also very similar to how 5th edition Unearthed Arcana handles Mystics (5e psionics). Mystics know several disciplines, each of which contains several powers at various costs of psi points. For example, the Mastery of Fire discipline contains abilities that are similar in power to Burning Hands, Fireball, and Resist FIre.
I think that a system like this might be particularly appealing because you could have Sorcerer bloodlines limit which disciplines a given Sorcerer may choose, much like how a 3E cleric's deity restricts their choice of domain. A Sorcerer with Dryad blood might have access to Earth, Plant, and Charm disciplines whereas a Sorcerer with Red Dragon blood would have Fire, Might, and Evil.