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Change Adoy's Belt !

EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,244
edited May 2014 in Feature Requests
Let's be honest, Adoy's Belt is useless.
Save vs. Petrification/Polymorph is something you use so little that it's not worth raising.

On the other hand, Neera wild magic... that is something very deadly... unfortunately more for you than for enemies. :-(
Be hit by your own fireballs is not funny on low levels, even on hight levels, when fireball replace more deadly spells. And that's not even talking about summoning a demons which kills you on one hit, or evaporation of gold.

This belt should help Neera tame her wild magic, right?
So why not make it wearable only for wild mages, with ability block user's wild magic completely?
Neera would finally get item which made ​​her actually useful (Like Rashad "Big fisted belt").

Moreover, it finally made Neera ​​available for players who do not see her wild magic as advantageous risk.
Post edited by Edvin on

Comments

  • FinaLfrontFinaLfront Member Posts: 260
    edited May 2014
    Though I agree that the belt as a final quest reward leaves something to be desired, -5 to a saving throw is utterly massive. Especially on an item at such a low level. Also, I may be wrong, but I do recall
    Adoy admitting that he couldn't help Neera tame her magic


    The belt is still useful against polymorphing wild surges and things like basilisk gaze
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    You want to make wild mages crazy OP so your not scared to use them anymore?
  • ZanianZanian Member Posts: 332
    I was with you until you said you wanted the belt to nullify the very thing that makes Neera (and her kit) unique.

    Maybe just give it a bit of magic resistance or something. There are so few sources of that in BG1, and it does seem like something you'd give to a wild mage. ^^

    But yeah, saves vs poly/petr is quite useless, no matter how big they are. I mean, who faces a basilisk without getting to 100% immunity first?
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    I would like to point out that many of the saves offered for the wild surges are actually saves vs. polymorph which is probably why the belt does this.
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,244
    @FinaLfront‌
    Taming is something different than blocking.
    Neera like her wild magic but she wants to learn how to control it.
    Therefore item witch blocking her wild magic completely does not interfere with story.

    @meagloth‌
    Huh? Wild mages without wild surges are crazy OP?
    So all normal mages are OP? :D

    And i am not scared use wild mages. I dont use them because they are useless.
    They are like jesters. Sometimes with them can be fun, but have no practical use.
  • SweetMagooMagoodleSweetMagooMagoodle Member Posts: 40
    edited May 2014
    Edvin, the thing is Wild Mages are uber powerful -- they can cast any spell they have memorized even if they havent reached that level yet. But there are great (and fun) risks in doing so.. if you block the risk, all you get is the reward! Might as well create a UAI belt for wizard slayers or a backstab necklace for swashbucklers. Or a failure to fatigue ring for barbarians. Etc.
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    Yes, what you are proposing is to remove all the risk from a huge reward, and kits are all about risk/reward balance.
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,244
    Do you understand lines "block user's wild magic COMPLETELY" ?
    No wild surges and no wild magic spells (Nahal's Reckless Dweomer, Chaos Shield).
  • ZanianZanian Member Posts: 332
    Which would make her a generic mage. Neera is the only npc mage in the franchise whose kit is actually an integral part to her story and personality.
    Dynaheir is an invoker, Edwin a conjurer, Xan an enchanter, Xzar a necromancer and Jan and Quayle are illusionists. Apart from it being a racial limitation for the latter two, at no point does it actually matter, story-wise, what kit they are, and it's never referenced either.

    Removing Neera's wild magic would require a rather extensive personal quest, not just a belt.

    /2 cents
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    edited May 2014
    Edvin said:

    Do you understand lines "block user's wild magic COMPLETELY" ?
    No wild surges and no wild magic spells (Nahal's Reckless Dweomer, Chaos Shield).

    Well thats even worse, if I can say so respectfully. Her whole quest is kinda the wild Mage thing. In her bg1 quest the whole point is that she doesn't learn to control her magic.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    It's really useful, and much more in BG2, get the Amulet of Polymorph Save+5 form Merkrath's lair and equip both on someone with less than 11 in save vs poly/petri, that will give you 0 in that saving throw, plus Ring of the Gaxx and Ring of Protection+3, you have a -15 bonus. And that with a fighter's high saving throws, you are completely immune to petri/poly effects (they aren't much but their are deadly).
  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    Uhm, isn't the whole point of wild magic is that its risky? I mean, what's the point in giving Neera an item that lets her control her wild magic? I know in BG2EE, that in Neera's quests, you get items that make her surges (or the PC's surges) a lot more favorable.

    Changing Adoy's belt to make it, so then it blocks wild magic completely would be a bad thing to do. It would just make all wild mages into generic mages. Which, in turn, makes Neera into a generic mage, and I don't think people would do her quest if this we're the case. I mean, if you really want a generic mage that doesn't have wild surges, then Imoen is your gal.

    Also, Neera's stronger than Edwin due to the fact that she has wild magic, and surges. With NRD (Narhal's Reckless Dweomer) she can cast any spell that she has in her spellbook. Sure, you might not get the intended result, but that's wild magic. Heck, if you want a more favorable result then you cast Chaos Shield, or at least until you get that mage robe in BG2EE with the permanent Chaos Shield.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    "Is that so? Well, I'm afraid I'm not the best example of learning to control wild magic. I'm not sure anyone can do that. Well, you can't govern chaos! Otherwise, it wouldn't be chaos, would it?" ~Adoy
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,244
    "Come on, old man. Make with the wisdom. No one gets to be your age without learning a few things. You must know how to avoid the crazy surges of power. You're holding out on me!" ~Neera
  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    I don't think even Adoy knows how to control his own wild magic, as mentioned with the quote from @Tresset‌, he even admits that he isn't the best example of learning to control wild magic. I mean, if he did know how to control wild magic, then he probably wouldn't have had that surge that teleported him to gods know where.
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,244
    edited May 2014
    @SapphireIce101

    So once again...
    Control wild magic is not the same as blocking wild magic.

    "You can not control the rain, but you can block it using an umbrella."
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,437
    edited May 2014
    I agree this would be a bad idea. It takes away the defining characteristic of a wild mage - wild surges. It just turns them into normal mages with +1 spell per spell level, so they have the benefit of being specialist mage without the opposition schools or surges.

    In addition, from the characterization of Adoy, he doesn't seem the type to use or even have such a belt. He embraced the chaos of wild magic.

    Plus, I'm not sure all the effects of wild magic could be blocked. An item could grant a "wild magic stat" bonus of +100 to ensure that all surges cast as normal, but that would not block the random caster level modification or stop the wild(-less) mage from using Nahal's to spam Wishes with 1st level slots and no chance of failure.
    Edvin said:

    @SapphireIce101

    So once again...
    Control wild magic is not the same as blocking wild magic.

    "You can not control the rain, but you can block it using an umbrella."

    And an umbrella is useless in a hurricane (or even a midwestern thunderstorm on a windy day). If you really want to make the belt something focused on wild magic, mod it to grant the effects of Chaos Shield while equipped.
  • EffinyEffiny Member Posts: 378
    edited May 2014
    I like Edvin's idea! Neera as a wild mage has an interesting story line but she is not practical in combat. Well, for me at least. Controlling combat bar after every spell cast is extremely annoying for me. Who wants Neera as a wild mage, won't ware the belt. Who wants her to be "normal" mage, will put it on her. Easy peasy.
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,244
    edited May 2014
    @Effiny‌
    Exactly my words!

    Wild mage is very specific profession which is not suitable for everyone.
    I just trying to make Neera useful for more types of players.

    Would not that be a shame if people lost their story because they hate the wild magic?
  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    You're right, control and block are two different things.

    However, there are some questions that need to be answered. Like, if Adoy had a belt that blocked wild magic why would he give it to Neera? I doubt he's going to have more than one belt sitting around, and I really doubt that he would give up something that would allow him to live a normal life just because Neera goes up to him and asks him for a way to control her wild magic.

    Why is Adoy living out in the wilderness if he has a belt that basically negates his wild magic? Surely he could live in a village like Beregost. I mean, with this belt that he has that blocks wild magic, he wouldn't have to worry about surges anymore, and basically destroying half the town with one accidental surge.

    What you're suggesting changes Neera's whole quest, and the objective of her quest. She isn't looking for Adoy to block her magic. She's looking for Adoy to learn how to control it. The thing is, character wise, Neera is fine with her wild mage. Sure, she gets annoyed with it sometimes, but I doubt that she would want to outright block it.

    All of this being said, do I think there is some room for improvement on Adoy's belt? Yes. Do I think we should use the belt to block wild magic? No, definitely not.
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,244
    SapphireIce101 said:

    You're right, control and block are two different things.

    However, there are some questions that need to be answered. Like, if Adoy had a belt that blocked wild magic why would he give it to Neera? I doubt he's going to have more than one belt sitting around, and I really doubt that he would give up something that would allow him to live a normal life just because Neera goes up to him and asks him for a way to control her wild magic.

    Because Adoy love his wild magic and he dont want boring normal live.
    BTW, he live in the wilderness because he was teleported there by wild surge.
  • MatthieuMatthieu Member Posts: 386
    Adoy... I want that moron's name on the book of retribution.
  • EdvinEdvin Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 3,244
    edited May 2014
    @Tresset‌
    Have you ever read Wild Surge Table ?
    Only 20% effects are good. Rest are bad or useless (like whole wild mages)
    I still can not understand how anyone could think that wild mages are worthwhile...

    Your "insanely OP belt" would make sense only if they also block Nahal's Reckless Dweomer and Chaos Shield.
    Do you understand at all what I'm talking about, or just randomly inventing silly items?
  • LoubLoub Member Posts: 471
    image
    I think I just burnt half my neurons reading this thread.
    Can I have a pony?
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    edited May 2014
    Edvin said:

    @Tresset‌
    Have you ever read Wild Surge Table ?
    Only 20% effects are good. Rest are bad or useless (like whole wild mages)
    I still can not understand how anyone could think that wild mages are worthwhile...

    Your "insanely OP belt" would make sense only if they also block Nahal's Reckless Dweomer and Chaos Shield.
    Do you understand at all what I'm talking about, or just randomly inventing silly items?

    Well, lets see here.... I am a beta tester who has made a few mods in my past and figured out one or two things that have stumped even some of the developers. I also have extensive experience with wild mages and goofing off with them. I have learned how to use Near Infinity to manipulate most of what I want to change with my games and have become quite proficient with it. I do believe I know what I am talking about, but it is hard to be sure sometimes...

    Anyway, I don't really need to prove anything, but try extracting this in your override folder in either BG1:EE or BG2:EE and put Adoy's belt on a wild mage and have that wild mage spam NRD. Note that I did not change the description at all because that requires more effort than I am willing to put into this right now.

    Edit: This mod has been removed because it was crap and an unfinished product. I finished up the work I started and the mod will now be available in the modding section here: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/31861/mod-adoy-s-surgeproof-belt-for-bg1-ee-bg2-ee
    Post edited by Tresset on
  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    I can say with reasonable certainty that we will not be changing Adoy's belt to mitigate or remove the effects of Neera's kit. There are reasons for that, which have been explained by others in this thread, and which I don't think need to be expanded upon.

    That being said, I encourage you to mod the item yourself, or enlist the help of one of our many resident modders. Just because it won't be in the official version of the game doesn't mean it can't be in the version you play.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
    I think I just ninja'd @Dee with the mod that he was talking about... How Ironic.
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