Seeing as you used the inspiration for the Monk orders instead of the actual monk orders themselves, me calling a failure in translation from real world monks to D&D monks is fair.
Why not use the descriptions of the actual D&D monks?
As for an anarchist being Chaotic Good, what exactly is the issue here? An anarchist is defined as someone who rebels against authority. Chaotic means a preference against any kind of authority. So there's some intersect. Rebelling against authority doesn't necessarily mean Evil goals/intentions. So an anarchist by definition can be Chaotic Good.
...what? When did I ever imply that anarchists could not be chaotic good?
Also your definition of an anarchist is completely incorrect. An anarchist is not a "rebel". The word anarchist literally means a person who believes in a stateless society (it comes from the Greek. Literally means "Without Leaders")
I am of True Neutral alignment actually. Besides trying to right the debate as I explained to @jackjack, I only weighed in on the lawful side to even the odds here. My response to things in RL is less lawful than my responses here would suggest - so long as I am not affected in a substantial way, I am not too bothered.
It might be interesting to note that Chaos was originally analogous to chasm or valley. So you have Someone who likes order and structure and someone who likes valleys. I like valleys myself.
LOL. Pretty much sums up the whole debate so far from the "my afterschool book club is technically a government!!!!" proponents.
Persons commenting in this thread who are of (RL) Chaotic alignment will tend to really perceive that there can be no correct limiting answer about what alignment means and how it should be played in order to have the true DnD experience.
Persons lurking on this thread are probably of Neutral alignment and find it really interesting that such things are still so intensely juicy!! What the DM decides is all that really matters and perhaps the fun of arguing it out over the table if the DM is open to that.
Chaotic Neutral. Wow, you are good.
I find myself taking @jacobtan 's view on this, though both sides of the argument have their points. Which makes this debate impossible to win or lose, so it has been funny watching how it has evolved (or degenerated). I'm not surprised at all how this has turned out, I'm sure no one here is. At the end of the day, it comes down to what @the_spyder said:
Persons commenting in this thread who are of (RL) Chaotic alignment will tend to really perceive that there can be no correct limiting answer about what alignment means and how it should be played in order to have the true DnD experience.
Persons lurking on this thread are probably of Neutral alignment and find it really interesting that such things are still so intensely juicy!! What the DM decides is all that really matters and perhaps the fun of arguing it out over the table if the DM is open to that.
Chaotic Neutral. Wow, you are good.
But wait. I'm a Lawyer in real life. I couldn't possibly be Chaotic.?!? :-) I support THE LAW.
I find myself taking @jacobtan 's view on this, though both sides of the argument have their points. Which makes this debate impossible to win or lose, so it has been funny watching how it has evolved (or degenerated). I'm not surprised at all how this has turned out, I'm sure no one here is. At the end of the day, it comes down to what @the_spyder said:
O_o I just got more notification in 5 hours than i get in a normal week. I doubled my previous max. I had no idea this subject was such a big deal when I started it. I think this is my first thread to get to 5 pages, as well.
I don't think alignment is limited to how your character sees himself, but rather has as much (if not more) to do with how your character would be viewed by society. For instance, a lawful evil person might feel that she is lawful good - and I expect most do feel that way. But their actions say otherwise. We all know that hateful landlords are evil, but we also know that even in their greed they break no law. Alignment in DnD presupposes a society that shares the same moral standard as our own real world society, and things would become incredibly muddled otherwise.
A chaotic good person, for instance, might steal if it was for a greater good. Robin Hood comes to mind. We all see Robin Hood as good, because he cares for the poor, and he is a perfect example of chaotic good.
Adolf Hitler is a good example of lawful evil. He came to power through legal means, and because he made the law, he broke no law. But the world sees him as evil. A Nazi, however, would beg to differ.
When I play an evil alignment, I keep this in mind. I roleplay my character. My character doesn't believe he is evil in the least. But his actions say otherwise.
Also your definition of an anarchist is completely incorrect. An anarchist is not a "rebel". The word anarchist literally means a person who believes in a stateless society (it comes from the Greek. Literally means "Without Leaders")
Also your definition of an anarchist is completely incorrect. An anarchist is not a "rebel". The word anarchist literally means a person who believes in a stateless society (it comes from the Greek. Literally means "Without Leaders")
Also your definition of an anarchist is completely incorrect. An anarchist is not a "rebel". The word anarchist literally means a person who believes in a stateless society (it comes from the Greek. Literally means "Without Leaders")
I'm sorry. It's been a long time since I actually cracked a D&D book, but where does it say that anyone of Chaotic alignment is an anarchist? Must have missed that bit.
I'm late to the party... Or to be precise, I have been to a never ending cycle of parties...
Doh... explain... My Daughter is ONE cycle of the sun old! How did this time elapse occur? To make matters worse... All the Mums and Dads we met at the Breast Feeding class all happened to have children at around the same time... I KNOW... Amazing coincidences! What are the chances... So... A lot of entertaining children, as being a teacher, somehow, I automatically know how to look after emerging toddlers... because I have had training or some such... WHICH IS A FALSEHOOD OF THE GREATEST DEGREE, AND THAT ONE TODDLER ATE TWO WHOLE CANS OF BAKED BEANS WAS IN NO WAY MY RESPONSIBILITY ! ! !
Amyway, before @meagloth amputates my legs for thread derailment...
MY ORIGINAL THOUGHT OUT RESPONSE!
Laws are internal. But they have external checks...
That it happens to be Wednesday, is not because it is Wednesday, but because you have in part agreed internally to the fact that it is Wednesday, and that society and the world in general have acknowledged your precept that it is Wednesday, which in turns creates a check, if you miss a day or wake up thinking it is Saturday. Basically, summing up the opposite, if no one person actually decided it was Wednesday in the first place... It wouldn't be Wednesday.
The only real measurable fact is that 365.5 night/day cycles created by the Earth spinning on its axis as it makes one orbit of the sun.
Yes. If you believe it is Wednesday. You are Lawful and obeying the whim of society around you. And your not as big a rebel as you first thought.
If you truly believe it is Eatarataday, stroll on you chaotic fool...
...
Good is immediate.
Because chocolate is good. And if you think it is fattening and rots your teeth and is the major contributor to the hideous acne you currently suffer...
Then our opinions differ... AND THUS! Makes this latter part of the argument more opinionated than the first as good cannot be quantified as easily.
Qualitatively, and it has already been said, most well adjusted people try to do the right, good, thing as each opportunity presents itself throughout the day.
@Anduin - not to play devil's advocate here, because...... Ok, next.
1. according to your definition (If you believe it is Wednesday, you are Lawful) means that everyone in the world (except a few eccentric lunatics) are Lawful. I don't buy that.
2. The Earth actually cycles the sun in a 365 days, 5 hours, 49 minutes and 1.2 seconds, not 365.5 days. It's a small difference, but if you are measuring....
3. I am not going to touch your Chocolate logic of Good, because... yeah. I'd say get some sleep man.
1. according to your definition (If you believe it is Wednesday, you are Lawful) means that everyone in the world (except a few eccentric lunatics) are Lawful. I don't buy that.
Aspergers is a condition that effects the ability of a person to communicate effectively. Sufferers lack the ability to recognise facial cues, tone of voice, sarcasm, jokes. They do not recognise the rules of social interraction. They may cuddle you or cup you without realising they are doing anything untoward, or puch you for complimenting them.
There are laws of communication between humans. A smile means you are happy. A frown you are sad. Imagine if we did not have these rules? Unwritten or written. Rules of social interaction effect us everyday. A lunatic would be one who didn't... Although the person with aspergers would try desperately to understand, and would probably ask the question why is today Wednesday, but only if the number of vehicles he spotted before coming to school was divisable by 3...
2. The Earth actually cycles the sun in a 365 days, 5 hours, 49 minutes and 1.2 seconds, not 365.5 days. It's a small difference, but if you are measuring....
And it is slowing by a trillionth of a second each day...
3. I am not going to touch your Chocolate logic of Good, because... yeah. I'd say get some sleep man.
See ya next Eatarataday....
*Anduin clasps and rubs his hands together in a self-congratulatory manner*
Yes... See ya next Eatarataday... Then next Widerbottomday... and then... AND ONLY THEN... ANDUINSDAY WILL ARRIVE MAJESTIC FROM THE EVER SPEWING FONT OF TIME !
I'm late to the party... Or to be precise, I have been to a never ending cycle of parties...
Doh... explain... My Daughter is ONE cycle of the sun old! How did this time elapse occur? To make matters worse... All the Mums and Dads we met at the Breast Feeding class all happened to have children at around the same time... I KNOW... Amazing coincidences! What are the chances... So... A lot of entertaining children, as being a teacher, somehow, I automatically know how to look after emerging toddlers... because I have had training or some such... WHICH IS A FALSEHOOD OF THE GREATEST DEGREE, AND THAT ONE TODDLER ATE TWO WHOLE CANS OF BAKED BEANS WAS IN NO WAY MY RESPONSIBILITY ! ! !
I didn't know mummies could.... Ah, maybe I don't want to know.
I've eaten two bags of popcorn while reading this discussion, actually.
@bengoshi dude, how much popcorn do you think I ate? I was in the bloody thing. Now that I know people flip out like this, I would do it again for fun, if I got bored.
Comments
When did I ever imply that anarchists could not be chaotic good?
Also your definition of an anarchist is completely incorrect. An anarchist is not a "rebel". The word anarchist literally means a person who believes in a stateless society (it comes from the Greek. Literally means "Without Leaders")
I am of True Neutral alignment actually. Besides trying to right the debate as I explained to @jackjack, I only weighed in on the lawful side to even the odds here. My response to things in RL is less lawful than my responses here would suggest - so long as I am not affected in a substantial way, I am not too bothered.
I find myself taking @jacobtan 's view on this, though both sides of the argument have their points. Which makes this debate impossible to win or lose, so it has been funny watching how it has evolved (or degenerated). I'm not surprised at all how this has turned out, I'm sure no one here is. At the end of the day, it comes down to what @the_spyder said: And What I've said on my first post on page 1.
It's what I've said all along as well.
I just got more notification in 5 hours than i get in a normal week. I doubled my previous max. I had no idea this subject was such a big deal when I started it.
I think this is my first thread to get to 5 pages, as well.
A chaotic good person, for instance, might steal if it was for a greater good. Robin Hood comes to mind. We all see Robin Hood as good, because he cares for the poor, and he is a perfect example of chaotic good.
Adolf Hitler is a good example of lawful evil. He came to power through legal means, and because he made the law, he broke no law. But the world sees him as evil. A Nazi, however, would beg to differ.
When I play an evil alignment, I keep this in mind. I roleplay my character. My character doesn't believe he is evil in the least. But his actions say otherwise.
Naw, you guys got it all wrong. this is is what anarchist actually is.
Doh... explain... My Daughter is ONE cycle of the sun old! How did this time elapse occur? To make matters worse... All the Mums and Dads we met at the Breast Feeding class all happened to have children at around the same time... I KNOW... Amazing coincidences! What are the chances... So... A lot of entertaining children, as being a teacher, somehow, I automatically know how to look after emerging toddlers... because I have had training or some such... WHICH IS A FALSEHOOD OF THE GREATEST DEGREE, AND THAT ONE TODDLER ATE TWO WHOLE CANS OF BAKED BEANS WAS IN NO WAY MY RESPONSIBILITY ! ! !
Amyway, before @meagloth amputates my legs for thread derailment...
MY ORIGINAL THOUGHT OUT RESPONSE!
Laws are internal. But they have external checks...
That it happens to be Wednesday, is not because it is Wednesday, but because you have in part agreed internally to the fact that it is Wednesday, and that society and the world in general have acknowledged your precept that it is Wednesday, which in turns creates a check, if you miss a day or wake up thinking it is Saturday. Basically, summing up the opposite, if no one person actually decided it was Wednesday in the first place... It wouldn't be Wednesday.
The only real measurable fact is that 365.5 night/day cycles created by the Earth spinning on its axis as it makes one orbit of the sun.
Yes. If you believe it is Wednesday. You are Lawful and obeying the whim of society around you. And your not as big a rebel as you first thought.
If you truly believe it is Eatarataday, stroll on you chaotic fool...
...
Good is immediate.
Because chocolate is good. And if you think it is fattening and rots your teeth and is the major contributor to the hideous acne you currently suffer...
Then our opinions differ... AND THUS! Makes this latter part of the argument more opinionated than the first as good cannot be quantified as easily.
Qualitatively, and it has already been said, most well adjusted people try to do the right, good, thing as each opportunity presents itself throughout the day.
1. according to your definition (If you believe it is Wednesday, you are Lawful) means that everyone in the world (except a few eccentric lunatics) are Lawful. I don't buy that.
2. The Earth actually cycles the sun in a 365 days, 5 hours, 49 minutes and 1.2 seconds, not 365.5 days. It's a small difference, but if you are measuring....
3. I am not going to touch your Chocolate logic of Good, because... yeah. I'd say get some sleep man.
See ya next Eatarataday....
There are laws of communication between humans. A smile means you are happy. A frown you are sad. Imagine if we did not have these rules? Unwritten or written. Rules of social interaction effect us everyday. A lunatic would be one who didn't... Although the person with aspergers would try desperately to understand, and would probably ask the question why is today Wednesday, but only if the number of vehicles he spotted before coming to school was divisable by 3...
And it is slowing by a trillionth of a second each day... *Anduin clasps and rubs his hands together in a self-congratulatory manner*
Yes... See ya next Eatarataday... Then next Widerbottomday... and then... AND ONLY THEN... ANDUINSDAY WILL ARRIVE MAJESTIC FROM THE EVER SPEWING FONT OF TIME !
Tell the others who don't realize. But shhhhh... it's quiet now. Let's not wake the kiddies.