The most logical starting character

artificial_sunlight

What do you think is de most logical starting race and class for CHARNAME? And why?

I think that bards, clecics, thieves, fighters and mages al are logic classes growing up in Candlekeep. And I think dwarves are the most un-logic Bhaal worshipers, so also the most unlogic race to play. More of my thoughts come when the discussion runs

Synergetic

Logic has nothing to do with making a character - though if you mean by what would be logical from a RP perspective to start I would say this. "It's a game, it has rules and game mechanics that were intended to be used in a certain manner including races and abilities - choose which one you would enjoy playing and don't limit your fun by saying what would jesus RP as because if you go down that route how are you going to eat or drink? How do you know what tempature is .etc .etc."

I don't mean to come off as trollish but I just don't get how some people think sometimes.

Cheesebelly

Well, it's the perk of the player's choice really. It's what role playing is about after all!

I think the most logical classes would be probably fighter and cleric (because of all the guards and priests in Candlekeep) as well as mages in part (many visitors can be mages after all)

Bards and thieves are big question marks I guess, since there isn't a lot to steal or to sing for in Candlekeep. Unless the PC Bhaalspawn really wants to enter the quartet of prophecy singing dudes XD

artificial_sunlight

Bards are logic (for me) because they are the favourit class of Oghma, and there are lots of tales told there. And bards are all about knowledge.
Thieves can be bored childeren who don't like the strikt rules and make a little mischief.

TehCerealKiller

Technically you could say anything is logical because you are one out of an exponential number of Bhaalspawn and Bhaal mated with every race he could find (which is just about all of them) and according to lore Gorion chose you to be his foster child during a battle meaning you could've come from almost anywhere.

Drugar

Human wizard, bard or fighter seems to make the most sense to me, considering the origins.
However, as was stated, any character is still quite valid as Bhaal was quite promiscuous and Candlekeep offers many paths to adulthood (except Barbarian, that one's a little odd).

Sceptenar

artificial_sunlight said:

And I think dwarves are the most un-logic Bhaal worshipers, so also the most unlogic race to play.

I doubt Bhaal cared much about who worshipped him when he went around spreading his essence. A lot of his worshipers were impregnated certainly, but many more were not worshipers. I mean, there is a rabbit bhaalspawn in ToB for crying out loud!

artificial_sunlight

Sceptenar said:

I mean, there is a rabbit bhaalspawn in ToB for crying out loud!

My rabbit does worship carrots! But thats another matter.

I think you are all right about every race is possible...

But I think druids and rangers (and barbarian also, like @Drugar said) are a bit strange in Candlekeep, you have lived inside for 20 years.

Synergetic said:

Logic has nothing to do with making a character - though if you mean by what would be logical from a RP perspective to start I would say this. "It's a game, it has rules and game mechanics that were intended to be used in a certain manner including races and abilities - choose which one you would enjoy playing and don't limit your fun by saying what would jesus RP as because if you go down that route how are you going to eat or drink? How do you know what tempature is .etc .etc."

I don't mean to come off as trollish but I just don't get how some people think sometimes.

I don't feel offended
And I love Baldur's Gate ( I played it, up and down, for about 12 years now) but I also love the Forgotten Realms and the stories. So I somtimes try to play a logic story/game (no useless killing as good character, don't grind), that could fit in a novel.

Humanoid_Taifun

@artificial_sunlight
I think Sceptenar is referring to the fact that when you meet your mother she is a priestess of Bhaal. But that happens in Throne of Bhaal and in ToB there are a number of inconsistencies with the rest of the lore.

Sceptenar

I did mean that every race is possible. But there are indeed inconsistencies in ToB, in BG1 Gorion says that your mother was a friend of his, while in ToB this has been retconned to her being a worshipper of Bhaal and about to sacrifice you, when Gorion saves you. This might just have been Gorion trying to spare you grief, but I don't get why he wouldn't tell you the truth when he in the same letter reveals that your father was basically Satan.

elminster

Barbarian is perhaps the only thing that comes close to an illogical class given you growing up in Candlekeep. That and shapeshifter.

artificial_sunlight

@Sceptenar Gorion just spares you the grief :P

Sceptenar

@artificial_sunlight
"Come on in son, have a seat. I need to tell you something that might shock you. As you know, I am not your biological father. I think you need to know the truth, your father was Satan..... also I killed your mother."

Drugar

Sceptenar said:

@artificial_sunlight
"Come on in son, have a seat. I need to tell you something that might shock you. As you know, I am not your biological father. I think you need to know the truth, your father was Satan..... also I killed your mother."

"But come on, stiff upper lip, let's go out and have a pint shall we?"

Gorion is such an ass.

Bjjorick

well, logic is based off of intelligence, and the chars that need the most intelligence are mages. The mage with the highest intellegence is either edwin or elminster. So the most logical char to create is one of those two.

I'm a jerk, i know, i just had to.

AurenRavidel

I don't think any particular race is illogical. Clearly, though, some classes are more logical than others. Mage is arguably the most-logical, considering your location and your foster father's vocation. Many children take after their parents, so that makes the most sense to me. Bard, fighter, paladin and cleric also make sense.

Ranger, thief and druid all make less sense, I think for obvious reasons.

Sceptenar

AurenRavidel said:

Ranger, thief and druid all make less sense, I think for obvious reasons.

Why do thieves make less sense? Not that obvious to me.

Bjjorick

clerics and pally's are usually more wise imho. they follow the directions of their gods.

Humanoid_Taifun

@Bjjorick
Logic is not based off of intelligence. Logic is a way of thinking. Intelligence is the speed at which you think.

AurenRavidel

I think they make less sense because:

1) You have less cause to practice thieving skills, based on the fact your basic needs are provided for. Most people turn to larceny out of necessity (although I will concede some simply do it for the thrill).

2) Since you're in a small, tight-knit community you're probably less likely to do things which would make you look bad, since you'll have to live with the poor reputation. Your character's not planning on skipping town, so stealing bottles of Winthrop's finest ale could come back to haunt you. It probably wouldn't be too difficult for authorities to conduct searches and find the stolen items, either, given the relatively small scale of Candlekeep.

3) Among the populace, you don't really have an established NPC to teach you. Mages have Gorion, warrior-types have the guard captain and clerics have the clergy at the shrine, but how many thieves are sticking around Candlekeep to teach you how to pick locks? Not many, I'd wager.

That's just how I view things, though. An argument could be made for thieves making sense, I'm sure. They just make less sense to me.

Space_hamster

considering you start at lvl 1 with ZERO experience, it makes sense to be any class you choose. Once you leave the walls of Candlekeep, the real education begins.

Sceptenar

1. Candlekeep with it's constant influx of travelers has plenty of people to practice your larceny on.
2. Yes, you live in a small boring place with all needs provided for. Unless you really like reading, I can see how someone would easily be bored there. I can see someone growing up there turning to larceny and other minor things to liven things up a bit. "Idle hands are the devil's playthings"
3. Imoen clearly stated that she learned her skills from Winthrop the innkeeper (that rascal).

AurenRavidel

Well, it still doesn't make sense to me, but that's just because I think of my characters as extensions of myself, and I can't fathom becoming a thief in that situation. Even if you disagree with me, as you obviously do, would you concede it makes less sense for you to become a thief over some of the other classes?

I don't recall reading anything about Winthrop teaching Imoen, but I'll accept your info on face value. The influx of travelers argument also has merit, and I've already conceded that some people steal for the thrill. Pickpocketing mages visiting Candlekeep would certainly be thrilling, considering you're potentially risking being turned into a toad!

Bjjorick

well, imoen didn't come to live in candlekeep until she was 10. She might have already picked up parts of it and taught herself the rest as she had a very high int. she could have taught you as there were only two kids in candlekeep

AurenRavidel

@Bjjorick That's a good point as well! Keep making good points and you'd probably change my mind, if I wasn't so stubborn.

reedmilfam

@Bjjorick - That was the point I was going to make. If Imoen's the great buddy, wouldn't it make sense for the two to practice her skills on one another at least? An ongoing game of pick pocket, and stuff like that? It was probably more of a game (if CHARNAME goes thief) for most of it, but they got good at it.

Ranger/Druid - I think that nature could find a place there. Gorion has contacts among the druids, so I think it possible that CHARNAME was impressed by some and learned during visits of some sort.

Barbarian is a tougher sell for me conceptually. But I see them more as the peoples on the edge of civilization and there are wilderness areas near Candlekeep. Imagine CHARNAME as a good fighter, but more focused on the brute force approach than the disciplined learning approach. It would make sense to me in this context.

The one I can't rationalize this way is the Monk. Knowing how much training this takes and how long one trains, there doesn't appear to be a means for this learning. This wouldn't keep me from trying as a monk, mind you, but the logical jump is hard for me.

Bjjorick

@Aurenravidel no worries, i'm stubborn as well.
@reedmilfam shouldn't that mean that pc and imoen should have some doctor skills as well? Just a thought. As far as barbarian, pc could have gotten fed up with all the enlightenment and decided that thinking isn't his style, and just smash. He could have had a temper/etc.

For monk, not much different. He learns to fight from the guards, but realizes that he doesn't care for the site of blood. He's in a place of learning, i'm sure there were books there he could study. In further details, i could say that he and imoen mock fought all the time, and wanted to not hurt her, he would just fight bare handed. Over time, he learned to disarm her. Then, he learned to disarm her and floor her without causing her injury. Then, he could learn to toss her/knock her about without injuring her seriously, but give her a big blow to her pride.

Then, after the attack, he wouldn't have any weapon fighting abilities, but he could realize over time that his training could be quite deadly if only he could hone it. I mean, i think i could justify any of the starting classes, and monk wasn't available in the orginal game. :P

immagikman

TehCerealKiller said:

Technically you could say anything is logical because you are one out of an exponential, number of Bhaalspawn

You use that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.....

Bjjorick

@immagikman
Inconceivable!!!!

reedmilfam

You could, but reading about martial arts and training for them... Like I said, the 'I BELIEVE' button is hard to press as a Monk. Even being a red-headed bastard stepchild (or whatever fatherless girls are for the other gender). Anyway, it is, as Bjjorick states, a matter of monk not existing when the game was created...

GrandeC

As a child I loved sneaking up on family members or pets (though not as successfully) and surprising them, that could count as Move Silently training. That's how I roleplayed a thief or, with a stretch, ranger characters.