@taletotell Have you ever played Throne of Bhaal? If a dragon found the time to grow up and bear a child (which also grew up), then an elf's slower aging cannot be an issue.
Bhaal started baby-making several centuries in advance. The only one who is on a strict timeline is CHARNAME.
aren't the guys in green all around Candlekeep described as being monks? I mean when you put your cursor over them they are "tutors" but the intro text at the beginning of bg calls them monks.
They are monks, yes -- but the scholarly kind, not the fighting kind. Less spiritual enlightenment through honing the body, way more book learnin'.
Monk is the most obvious one to me. The class lends itself well to a godlike being. Instead of having to rely on armor or cantrips, you're just awesome for being you. You move faster, you hit harder and you even become immune to normal weapons for chrissakes, purely by what you are. Monk is the God class.
Anyone who hasn't played BG2 as a monk has missed out. I had my doubts at first with not being able to wield weapons and armor, but holy s*it, who needed them.
Monk is the most obvious one to me. The class lends itself well to a godlike being. Instead of having to rely on armor or cantrips, you're just awesome for being you. You move faster, you hit harder and you even become immune to normal weapons for chrissakes, purely by what you are. Monk is the God class.
Anyone who hasn't played BG2 as a monk has missed out. I had my doubts at first with not being able to wield weapons and armor, but holy s*it, who needed them.
What do you do against level drains from Vampires etc? and Stat drains from other stuff.. In the Pen and Paper games a Monk was powerless against anything with a negative material plane draining ability, as if you touched them you lost levels.
Monk is the most obvious one to me. The class lends itself well to a godlike being. Instead of having to rely on armor or cantrips, you're just awesome for being you. You move faster, you hit harder and you even become immune to normal weapons for chrissakes, purely by what you are. Monk is the God class.
Anyone who hasn't played BG2 as a monk has missed out. I had my doubts at first with not being able to wield weapons and armor, but holy s*it, who needed them.
What do you do against level drains from Vampires etc? and Stat drains from other stuff.. In the Pen and Paper games a Monk was powerless against anything with a negative material plane draining ability, as if you touched them you lost levels.
If you didn't install a mod that changed it, the easiest way was to wear the amulet of power.
If you installed a fix pack that barred it, you don't have many options outside of scrolls (protection from undead) or using a restoration spell/scroll after the fight. Or avoiding getting hit (getting the vampire to engage someone protected or a summons, etc.) since you aren't level drained when you hit but only when the vampire, etc. hits you.
@Konabung Your answer makes me sad for so many reasons...and sad for you.
@AHF Thanks that helpped a bit, however the mechanics of the level drain never made sense if you used the logic of it only happened if you got hit not if you hit them (ie made direct skin to skin contact) as the level drain wasnt supposed to be part of an "attacks" or an ability it was just a function of the creature being tied strongly to the Negative material Plane.....again a mechanic that is ignored by most CRPG's and even most P&P DM's.......but some times Im anal about things
Nice. Thanks for the condescension. Never thought anyone would hold it against me for NOT playing p&p. Look, why bring up rules (which change frequently) that don't apply in the game?
I guess I just don't understand your argument. The monk is not the logical choice because it's not completely impervious to all harm? Who is? Not even the gods. The point is that the monks power is more innate and doesn't rely on magical gear as much as the other classes.
Nice. Thanks for the condescension. Never thought anyone would hold it against me for NOT playing p&p. Look, why bring up rules (which change frequently) that don't apply in the game?
I guess I just don't understand your argument. The monk is not the logical choice because it's not completely impervious to all harm? Who is? Not even the gods. The point is that the monks power is more innate and doesn't rely on magical gear as much as the other classes.
Im sorry if you thought I was being condescending, I wasn't, I was being honest. It is clear to me you were born too late to have enjoyed what the Pen and Paper games were, it is what all CRPG games still strive to emulate and until there is true Ai will never quite. Im not knocking you for being younger or for some other reason having missed the pre-computer hey day of gaming....Im just sad, about it, because I get the same kinds of responses from my own kids.....they don't get it and don't care and for that I think they missed out on something great.
Just wanted you to know also that on some of your other posts I find you are pretty bright and perceptive. I was in no way trying to demean you.
I guess I just don't understand your argument. The monk is not the logical choice because it's not completely impervious to all harm? Who is? Not even the gods. The point is that the monks power is more innate and doesn't rely on magical gear as much as the other classes.
It wasnt meant as an argument, is was curiosity, I have not played a monk and always wondered how they fared against the Negative Material Plane creatures. That beign siad I think the discussion has spurred me to try running a Monk as my first play through of BG EE
@immagikman Yeah, BG was my first introduction into D&D. That was 14 years ago, so I don't necessarily feel so young anymore. Heh. Well anyways, I'm not trying to start any trouble here. Let's just agree I missed out on something.
@immagikman Yeah, BG was my first introduction into D&D. That was 14 years ago, so I don't necessarily feel so young anymore. Heh. Well anyways, I'm not trying to start any trouble here. Let's just agree I missed out on something.
I'm with ya, bro. I had no idea what D&D was all about back then other than that the ads for it in my comic books made it look totally rad. I got Baldur's Gate when I was like 11, the first game I purchased with my own money, and I've loved D&D ever since.
They are monks, yes -- but the scholarly kind, not the fighting kind. Less spiritual enlightenment through honing the body, way more book learnin'.
Even still, it'd be silly to assume that Oghma is one of the few non-Chaotic gods with no monks.
I don't see why Oghma could not have monasteries outside of Candlekeep...?
I don't personally have a problem with monk CHARNAMEs, but there are hurdles to overcome. You'd have to explain why CHARNAME isn't part of a monastic order, or at the very least, why they aren't trained at a monastery (since there aren't any in Candlekeep). I seriously doubt Gorion would just let CHARNAME join such an order, as it would severely limit the influence he could have on you.
Of course, most people don't care about roleplaying details like that, and just want to play the game... which is fine with me, really.
I don't see why Oghma could not have monasteries outside of Candlekeep...?
I don't personally have a problem with monk CHARNAMEs, but there are hurdles to overcome. You'd have to explain why CHARNAME isn't part of a monastic order, or at the very least, why they aren't trained at a monastery (since there aren't any in Candlekeep). I seriously doubt Gorion would just let CHARNAME join such an order, as it would severely limit the influence he could have on you.
Of course, most people don't care about roleplaying details like that, and just want to play the game... which is fine with me, really.
There's really no hurdles to overcome at all, not for any class, and certainly not monks.
1. Candlekeep has tons of books. As long as you can read, you can learn about something. The question of whether or not you can actually imitate martial arts from books is moot, characters do it in Kung-Fu movies and CHARNAME is a player-character and thus exceptionally talented compared to the average person.
2. Temple of Oghma. Monks are going to visit said temple. There might even be a tutor with monk training there permanently. Either way, CHARNAME can get some hands-on lessons.
3. Candlekeep is isolated, but visitors are not uncommon. A monk of another faith besides Oghma could visit, or just anybody who happens to know a thing or two about fighting unarmed. In the case of the latter, CHARNAME can inject his own esoteric mumbo-jumbo if his fighting mentor lacked such teachings.
4. CHARNAME spontaneously develops a monk-like fighting style on his own. He just doesn't have much real world experience. Hence, level 1.
I don't think it's wrong to be a monk at all, it's just that from a role playing perspective, it doesn't quite make sense, but if anyone plays from a roleplaying perspective, and can make it make sense, then cudos to them. On another note, you don't necessarily have to call yourself a monk in the more literal sense of the term. For instance, World of Warcraft has Tauren and Draenei Paladins, even though respectively, they're sunwalkers and vindicators, not technically paladins. I'm certain that similar things can be done with this game. You're a martial artist with different spiritual powers and you're called a monk from everyone else's perspective.
I like to believe that bards or wizards would be the easiest to RP based on the background of growing up in Candlekeep (Stronghold of knowledge) raised by a formerly powerful mage such as Gorion... but all classes have the starting point that you're a kid with Bhaal's blood. Who knows just *what* area of study takes your fancy? With such a huge library at your disposal you could be an Arcane Fisherman and it would still make sense.
As to races ....I just don't understand halfbloods. Bhaal took the shape of a human and raped an elf? Took the shape of an orc and raped a human? Seriously? Or he changed shape especially for your mom? Pardon the childishness but 'Yo momma so fat your daddy had to use his godlike powers to become an orc just to do the dirty deed.' :P
I always thought that CHARNAME would best be portrayed as either a Bard, a Fighter/Mage, or a Thief/Mage. Probably Human or Half-Elf. Male or female, gender doesn't seem an issue. Those classes though seem to me to be the most plausible given the character's friends and upbringing.
When ever I start a new RPG that I have never played before I always go for the fighter class. It is usually the simplest and straight forward class to get the hang of the game before jumping into something that might ruin the experience for me. I know everyone is different and everyone has their own play styles but I jump into a new game trying a more advance character at the start it seems to make things a little more difficult. Once I get the hange of the game and understand how it plays and its structure then on the next play threw I will bump it up and try a more difficult class. This will be my first time playing Baldur's Gate but having played both IWD 1 & 2 and knowing this is pretty much the same way those games play I feel I might jump into a more advance character from the start.
Drizzt was approximately 15 when he goes to Melee-Menagerie (which would actually make him at least a lvl 1 fighter at the time he went in (one could argue the years he spent training with Zaknafein would have made him maybe level 2 at least). The reason I bring this up is because Elves reach maturity only slightly slower but you can still learn the basics while young. Elf aging (in terms of bodily) starts to really slow down when entering adolescence. Just the fact that most MOON elves usually don't venture out until the century mark or slightly after doesn't mean that every elf must do this in Forgotten Realms.
Re Classes:
Bard: makes a lot of sense actually to the point that I really want to try one. Cleric: You're not only surrounded by them but Candlekeep has allowed people from all stripes to come study. We can figure this out because we run into Cadderly in Chapter 6 on our way there, who is a priest of Danheir (an ally of Oghma but still outside their clerical order). Druid/Ranger: As someone else said these can make a lot of sense not only due to visitors but also due to books and a love of what nature there is in the keep. Barbarian: A short temper and a desire to hulk smash. Fighter: Same for Fighter, also likely to ask the city guard for some training. Paladin: Often seen as a calling, and also you could train with the city guard while asking for advice from visitors. Rogue: You were always getting into places and things you weren't supposed to. Sorcerer: Blood of a God. 'Nuf Said Wizard: Herm, your foster father is a mage AND you're surrounded by tomes of knowledge.
Blackguard: All the reading you've done revealing how good rarely works out overall in the end makes you cynical towards the world. You follow the law but you don't think doing the right thing is necessarily good for anyone. Losing your foster father right after you leave Candlekeep would only reinforce this opinion.
Multiclasses would make sense for similar reasons, you just can't make up your mind as much.
Even with kits, you still have a multitude of books at your disposal to help to figure out most of these via various techniques you might read about.
Aside: I really wish Wizard Slayers weren't so restricted because a dwarven wizard slayer would be cool but you can barely use anything.
Either a Bard class (I mean, it gets brought up in the opening movie "he was raised on a thousand stories"), Cleric (surrounded by religion and culture), Mage(don't even need to explain that one).
Personally, I never like monks as I could could never roleplay into their role. It just seemed wholly unrealisitc to me that a guy with no armor or weapons was going to slap somebody with a sword and shield or a person with a bow. Personal preference.
And I think dwarves are the most un-logic Bhaal worshipers, so also the most unlogic race to play.
I doubt Bhaal cared much about who worshipped him when he went around spreading his essence. A lot of his worshipers were impregnated certainly, but many more were not worshipers. I mean, there is a rabbit bhaalspawn in ToB for crying out loud!
Sir, are you suggesting the sexual intercourse with the rabbit was not consensual? :shock:
Drizzt was approximately 15 when he goes to Melee-Menagerie (which would actually make him at least a lvl 1 fighter at the time he went in (one could argue the years he spent training with Zaknafein would have made him maybe level 2 at least). The reason I bring this up is because Elves reach maturity only slightly slower but you can still learn the basics while young. Elf aging (in terms of bodily) starts to really slow down when entering adolescence. Just the fact that most MOON elves usually don't venture out until the century mark or slightly after doesn't mean that every elf must do this in Forgotten Realms.
Re Classes:
Bard: makes a lot of sense actually to the point that I really want to try one. Cleric: You're not only surrounded by them but Candlekeep has allowed people from all stripes to come study. We can figure this out because we run into Cadderly in Chapter 6 on our way there, who is a priest of Danheir (an ally of Oghma but still outside their clerical order). Druid/Ranger: As someone else said these can make a lot of sense not only due to visitors but also due to books and a love of what nature there is in the keep. Barbarian: A short temper and a desire to hulk smash. Fighter: Same for Fighter, also likely to ask the city guard for some training. Paladin: Often seen as a calling, and also you could train with the city guard while asking for advice from visitors. Rogue: You were always getting into places and things you weren't supposed to. Sorcerer: Blood of a God. 'Nuf Said Wizard: Herm, your foster father is a mage AND you're surrounded by tomes of knowledge.
Blackguard: All the reading you've done revealing how good rarely works out overall in the end makes you cynical towards the world. You follow the law but you don't think doing the right thing is necessarily good for anyone. Losing your foster father right after you leave Candlekeep would only reinforce this opinion.
Multiclasses would make sense for similar reasons, you just can't make up your mind as much.
Even with kits, you still have a multitude of books at your disposal to help to figure out most of these via various techniques you might read about.
Aside: I really wish Wizard Slayers weren't so restricted because a dwarven wizard slayer would be cool but you can barely use anything.
Barbarian - doesn't make sense, since he was raised in a civilized place, and knows how to read. Druid and Ranger - I think that without being in nature for a significant amount of time, it wouldn't make sense as a class for the hero. Druids need to commune with nature and rangers need some basic training in survival and stealth in the wild.
Barbarian - doesn't make sense, since he was raised in a civilized place, and knows how to read. Druid and Ranger - I think that without being in nature for a significant amount of time, it wouldn't make sense as a class for the hero. Druids need to commune with nature and rangers need some basic training in survival and stealth in the wild.
Barbarians aren't necessarily from uncivilized lands. Like the Berserker, sometimes it's just a fighting style and not a background. Further, as far as I know, 3rd edition was the only time Barbarians innately could not read as a class.
Druids can commune with nature meditating in the keep garden, pondering the mysteries of life with Nessie the cow.
Rangers aren't necessarily highly trained commandos exclusively. Maybe the PC read the Baldur's Gate equivalent of an Army Ranger Training Manual.
Comments
Although third edition would make them warriors, a ogma like wrestling I'm told.
Anyone who hasn't played BG2 as a monk has missed out. I had my doubts at first with not being able to wield weapons and armor, but holy s*it, who needed them.
What I would do against level drain or energy drain is what any fighter or mage would do, I would have someone else heal it. What's the problem?
If you installed a fix pack that barred it, you don't have many options outside of scrolls (protection from undead) or using a restoration spell/scroll after the fight. Or avoiding getting hit (getting the vampire to engage someone protected or a summons, etc.) since you aren't level drained when you hit but only when the vampire, etc. hits you.
Your answer makes me sad for so many reasons...and sad for you.
@AHF
Thanks that helpped a bit, however the mechanics of the level drain never made sense if you used the logic of it only happened if you got hit not if you hit them (ie made direct skin to skin contact) as the level drain wasnt supposed to be part of an "attacks" or an ability it was just a function of the creature being tied strongly to the Negative material Plane.....again a mechanic that is ignored by most CRPG's and even most P&P DM's.......but some times Im anal about things
I guess I just don't understand your argument. The monk is not the logical choice because it's not completely impervious to all harm? Who is? Not even the gods. The point is that the monks power is more innate and doesn't rely on magical gear as much as the other classes.
Just wanted you to know also that on some of your other posts I find you are pretty bright and perceptive. I was in no way trying to demean you.
Yeah, BG was my first introduction into D&D. That was 14 years ago, so I don't necessarily feel so young anymore. Heh. Well anyways, I'm not trying to start any trouble here. Let's just agree I missed out on something.
I don't personally have a problem with monk CHARNAMEs, but there are hurdles to overcome. You'd have to explain why CHARNAME isn't part of a monastic order, or at the very least, why they aren't trained at a monastery (since there aren't any in Candlekeep). I seriously doubt Gorion would just let CHARNAME join such an order, as it would severely limit the influence he could have on you.
Of course, most people don't care about roleplaying details like that, and just want to play the game... which is fine with me, really.
1. Candlekeep has tons of books. As long as you can read, you can learn about something. The question of whether or not you can actually imitate martial arts from books is moot, characters do it in Kung-Fu movies and CHARNAME is a player-character and thus exceptionally talented compared to the average person.
2. Temple of Oghma. Monks are going to visit said temple. There might even be a tutor with monk training there permanently. Either way, CHARNAME can get some hands-on lessons.
3. Candlekeep is isolated, but visitors are not uncommon. A monk of another faith besides Oghma could visit, or just anybody who happens to know a thing or two about fighting unarmed. In the case of the latter, CHARNAME can inject his own esoteric mumbo-jumbo if his fighting mentor lacked such teachings.
4. CHARNAME spontaneously develops a monk-like fighting style on his own. He just doesn't have much real world experience. Hence, level 1.
As to races ....I just don't understand halfbloods. Bhaal took the shape of a human and raped an elf? Took the shape of an orc and raped a human? Seriously? Or he changed shape especially for your mom? Pardon the childishness but 'Yo momma so fat your daddy had to use his godlike powers to become an orc just to do the dirty deed.' :P
Drizzt was approximately 15 when he goes to Melee-Menagerie (which would actually make him at least a lvl 1 fighter at the time he went in (one could argue the years he spent training with Zaknafein would have made him maybe level 2 at least). The reason I bring this up is because Elves reach maturity only slightly slower but you can still learn the basics while young. Elf aging (in terms of bodily) starts to really slow down when entering adolescence. Just the fact that most MOON elves usually don't venture out until the century mark or slightly after doesn't mean that every elf must do this in Forgotten Realms.
Re Classes:
Bard: makes a lot of sense actually to the point that I really want to try one.
Cleric: You're not only surrounded by them but Candlekeep has allowed people from all stripes to come study. We can figure this out because we run into Cadderly in Chapter 6 on our way there, who is a priest of Danheir (an ally of Oghma but still outside their clerical order).
Druid/Ranger: As someone else said these can make a lot of sense not only due to visitors but also due to books and a love of what nature there is in the keep.
Barbarian: A short temper and a desire to hulk smash.
Fighter: Same for Fighter, also likely to ask the city guard for some training.
Paladin: Often seen as a calling, and also you could train with the city guard while asking for advice from visitors.
Rogue: You were always getting into places and things you weren't supposed to.
Sorcerer: Blood of a God. 'Nuf Said
Wizard: Herm, your foster father is a mage AND you're surrounded by tomes of knowledge.
Blackguard: All the reading you've done revealing how good rarely works out overall in the end makes you cynical towards the world. You follow the law but you don't think doing the right thing is necessarily good for anyone. Losing your foster father right after you leave Candlekeep would only reinforce this opinion.
Multiclasses would make sense for similar reasons, you just can't make up your mind as much.
Even with kits, you still have a multitude of books at your disposal to help to figure out most of these via various techniques you might read about.
Aside: I really wish Wizard Slayers weren't so restricted because a dwarven wizard slayer would be cool but you can barely use anything.
Personally, I never like monks as I could could never roleplay into their role. It just seemed wholly unrealisitc to me that a guy with no armor or weapons was going to slap somebody with a sword and shield or a person with a bow. Personal preference.
Would you keep someone capable of doing a fireball instead of a simple charm spell anywhere near tons of invaluable books ? ^_^
Apart that, assassin seems hard. I mean, there is no thief guild in Candlekeep. And people seems good and neutral.
Druid and Ranger - I think that without being in nature for a significant amount of time, it wouldn't make sense as a class for the hero. Druids need to commune with nature and rangers need some basic training in survival and stealth in the wild.
Druids can commune with nature meditating in the keep garden, pondering the mysteries of life with Nessie the cow.
Rangers aren't necessarily highly trained commandos exclusively. Maybe the PC read the Baldur's Gate equivalent of an Army Ranger Training Manual.