This is exactly the kind of preachy, I'm better than you because you're 'x' views that alienate those people. The more the left talks this way the more entrenched those folks become. There are better ways of approaching these issues than calling people Nazi's (which is absolutely ridiculous and an insult to the millions that died in those concentration camps). If I yelled at you, called you a 'commie' and outed you as stupid on social media, I'm sure you'd see the errors of your ways and join me on the conservative side. Right?
It isn't preachy, it's just the facts.
I'm not saying I'm better than anyone, I'm saying if you want to be racist or misogynist, then own it. Don't whine extensively about how unfair it is that people on the left correctly identified your repellent views.
I also didn't call anyone a Nazi, so maybe straw man a little less?
I'm neither of those things and I still vote for Republicans sometimes (though not always) and am fiscally conservative. Your broad brush doesn't paint everybody.
I wasn't referring to you specifically with those comments earlier so I'm sorry if it came across that way. There was a long stream of conservatism bashing and yours was just the post I decided to answer. It's hard to convey meaning sometimes with this limited medium.
I'm neither of those things and I still vote for Republicans sometimes (though not always) and am fiscally conservative. Your broad brush doesn't paint everybody.
I wasn't referring to you specifically with those comments earlier so I'm sorry if it came across that way. There was a long stream of conservatism bashing and yours was just the post I decided to answer. It's hard to convey meaning sometimes with this limited medium.
I wasn't trying to say all Republicans or conservatives are racist and misogynist. I was trying to say that people who are legitimately racist and misogynist probably should not protest so much when it's pointed out. I am sorry if I came across as saying that all Republicans or conservatives are like that.
And a lot of the alt right is both of those things. They put it on display on a daily basis.
I'd be surprised if there were any of that type of person on this forum to be honest. They tend to be on the major media sites. I stopped going to those sites precisely because the discussion always seem to devolve into 'You're a Nazi' or 'You're a Commie' in short order. You could play 'Count the Brain Cells' with just your fingers.
I'd be surprised if there were any of that type of person on this forum to be honest. They tend to be on the major media sites. I stopped going to those sites precisely because the discussion always seem to devolve into 'You're a Nazi' or 'You're a Commie' in short order. You could play 'Count the Brain Cells' with just your fingers.
There have been people like that on this forum, especially during the backlash against Siege of Dragonspear. I think the majority (if not all) of them left when it became clear the forum's climate was not friendly to them.
That said I hope I didn't come across as talking about people on this forum, as I wasn't. I was responding to a comment about why the Montana voters might not want to vote for a Democrat. And I was being a bit confrontational about it because I did not think (and still do not think) that any degree of niceness or flattery will woo many of these voters from their hard right beliefs. It's not people calling them racist or misogynist that are radicalizing them, it's their own political beliefs.
GOP House candidate not a big enough story, how about the Gov. of Texas?? Right, right I get it. It's a "joke". I'm gonna carry a gun around in case I need to shoot a reporter. Get it?? Because reporters are so bad that I might have to shoot them. Funny, right?? A regular goddamn Richard Pryor we have here. WHEN (not if) a reporter gets shot in this country, remember Trump, and Gianforte, and Greg Abbott.
GOP House candidate not a big enough story, how about the Gov. of Texas?? Right, right I get it. It's a "joke". I'm gonna carry a gun around in case I need to shoot a reporter. Get it?? Because reporters are so bad that I might have to shoot them. Funny, right?? A regular goddamn Richard Pryor we have here. WHEN (not if) a reporter gets shot in this country, remember Trump, and Gianforte, and Greg Abbott.
Why do people vote for these jackasses?
"Sure he talks about shooting reporters, hates muslims, wants to abolish my healthcare, and will give tax cuts to all his millionaire buddies, but he's a fiscal conservative so all the poor people in my state will be worse off!"
The party has almost universally supported the agenda and personality cult of Donald Trump, who once bragged about grabbing women "by the pussy." Trump has been credibly accused of sexual assault by 14 women and has been accused by six others of entering changing rooms in which he knew that teenage girls would be undressed.
One of the president's senior advisers, Steve Bannon, has reportedly endorsed a book about race war—beloved in the neo-Nazi community—which refers to black individuals as "niggers" and "rats." Bannon openly supports white nationalist goals such as reducing the number of Asian American CEOs and was heavily involved in creating the career of white nationalist and Nazi fetishist Milo Yiannopoulos.
Trump's son, who was a key part of his campaign, repeatedly conducted campaign outreach to open, unapologetic white supremacists. The president himself conducted an exclusive campaign Q&A with a notorious internet forum rife with white supremacist hate speech.
Congressman Steve King, who has repeatedly endorsed white-supremacist talking points and praised European white nationalist parties, was once considered a nuisance by party leaders but has been embraced and promoted by Trump.
The Trump administration reportedly recently hired a woman whose most recent job was running an anti-immigration group that was founded by a white supremacist and has long-standing connections to the sewer world of race science.
Eyewitnesses from Fox News, of all places, say the newest Republican congressman—Montana's Greg Gianforte—body-slammed and punched a reporter who had approached him to ask a question about the American Health Care Act on Wednesday night. Gianforte was almost immediately charged with assault by a local sheriff who had donated to his campaign. Then, on Thursday, he was elected to Congress, where other Republicans appear ready to welcome him with, at most, the suggestion that he "apologize" for engaging in the spontaneous beating of someone who was trying to ask him a question about public policy.
Some of those bullet points stand, but several of them involve guilt by association. Vague links to undesirable folks do not make you a criminal or a Nazi.
Yup, lets keep generalizing and talking down to people who are different than you. Methinks the kettle doth protest too much.
Do you honestly believe that Trump's base could be swayed if only the Left were "nicer" to them?
Do you honestly believe that sweeping generalizations and patronizing are good things?
I believe that the answer to my question is "no." That calling actual racists and misogynists racist and misogynist does not actually push them to vote for candidates they were already going to vote for.
This is serious. For a number of reasons. This is why Kushner lied on his SF86. This is a back channel to a foreign adversary to hide communications from other aspects of the government. State, the military, CERTAINLY the public itself. Why?? Look at Trump's NATO speech. That was Putin talking through a marionette. We know Kushner was instrumental in having Comey fired. But, again, as former Obama adviser puts it:
Interesting. Why would Jared Kushner want a secret channel with the Russians? I wonder how Fox will gaslight this one.
It's simple. They just don't cover it. If you read every major newspaper and other news outlet on TV, and then watch FOX, you would only be able to conclude they are broadcasting from different galaxies.
He has a history apparently of making 'jokes' like that. So is he really encouraging his troops to commit atrocities? Pretty much it sounds like he's saying if you do something terrible, we can all have a good laugh about it (except presumably those people who were brutalized) and don't worry nothing will happen.
So is he going to get in trouble or get away with it? He's surely going to get away with it. I mean he's had people killed, whats a little rape 'joke' compared to that? What's a little provocative statement that makes you scratch your head and wonder if the guy is serious?
Anyway, to me, this is clearly the danger of turning a blind eye to the little things and then you end up with a bigger picture problem. This is letting Hitler get away with a coup, then saying it's okay if he goes after the gypsies, or poor people because they are not me. Don't worry your turn will come when it's too late to hold him back.
At the worst case, you give these guys an inch and they'll keep going until people are getting killed. They don't give a damn about 'the people'. Doesn't this sound familiar throw away lines about assaulting reporters sound like a first step to me.
This is what I mean by terrorism being a word that means nothing. This guy killed two people who defended a Muslim he was hurling slurs at. This act is utterly political in nature. Where are the media reports calling this guy a terrorist?? Where are the mass demonstrations of white people condemning this guy?? For that matter, where is the massive national coverage of this at all?? If a Muslim had done this it would dominate the headlines for days. This makes 3 people killed by members of the so-called "Alt-Reich" in the last 10 days, as a black member of the military was slain by another one of these monsters just last week.
I'd like to add, since it's a pejorative in this current culture....those two guys who intervened to stop this madman from harassing and possibly killing those Muslim women....they are ACTUAL Social Justice Warriors. And they gave their lives to help someone who was being verbally abused and bullied for their religion.
Ok, so Trump hasn't ACTUALLY divested from any of his businesses, but, up to this point, they have at least been trying to keep up the charade that his sons are staying away from the political power side of things while supposedly running the business in his stead. My prediction was always that, like with Ivanka, they would simply wait a few months, then ignore that completely, because they can count on the pathetic long-term memory of the American voter. Well, here we go:
three prominent members of President Trump’s family — his sons Eric Trump and Donald Trump Jr., and Eric’s wife, Lara — have ramped up their engagement with the Republican Party’s national political operation, having met privately with GOP leaders to share their concerns and outlook. Their most recent effort came Thursday, when the president’s eldest sons and Lara Trump visited the Republican National Committee’s headquarters in Washington. Those three family members, who were invited by the RNC, stayed for about two hours, according to four people who were not authorized to speak publicly.
Is this America, or are we now living with the Borgias or the Romanovs??
Ok, so Trump hasn't ACTUALLY divested from any of his businesses, but, up to this point, they have at least been trying to keep up the charade that his sons are staying away from the political power side of things while supposedly running the business in his stead. My prediction was always that, like with Ivanka, they would simply wait a few months, then ignore that completely, because they can count on the pathetic long-term memory of the American voter. Well, here we go:
three prominent members of President Trump’s family — his sons Eric Trump and Donald Trump Jr., and Eric’s wife, Lara — have ramped up their engagement with the Republican Party’s national political operation, having met privately with GOP leaders to share their concerns and outlook. Their most recent effort came Thursday, when the president’s eldest sons and Lara Trump visited the Republican National Committee’s headquarters in Washington. Those three family members, who were invited by the RNC, stayed for about two hours, according to four people who were not authorized to speak publicly.
Is this America, or are we now living with the Borgias or the Romanovs??
Can I play devil's advocate here and say that as business owners and employers of many American citizens, addressing their concerns privately with a political party shouldn't be questioned that drastically.
Would you be thinking the same thing if the CEO of Travel Lodge met with the republican party?
What's more concerning for me, and has been since he's been doing it from the get go is Trump using his family's property and businesses for official White House businesses. THAT is what should be getting American's up in arms. But if they just shrug, this is more of a meh.
The portland terrorist guy was a Bernie Sanders supporter if the reports are correct and if this is indeed his social media account which it appears to be.
maybe terror shouldn't be the thing we are going to war against. Perhaps we should be focusing our time and energy on helping the mentally ill so they are not persuaded to do these heinous acts.
@deltago Agreed, mental issues STILL take a backstage even now, with a stigma attached often as well.
On another note:
Two other things I have been watchin and find interesting, from a conflict management point of view. I can't say about the Ottawa because I did not get enough detail that I wanted from that article, but it is similar to some other things that happen. I think often ppl get label as mentally ill because some cannot believe a person could be sane and do the things they sometimes do. Now granted, some are, but for others they are sane and think through the process rationally as just the next logical and sometimes only option they feel they have left. It is just that some folks CANNOT imagine why or how, someone could do such things. I think and have seen first hand that this can be dangerous thinking and can leave 'protections' unprepared.
As 'Freedom fighters' in some countries that are sometimes hailed as 'heros' in a sense could also be classified as terrorists, by action, and they often go through the same thought processes. They are not normally seen as mentally ill (at least by there supporters anyway).
The other thing the article reminded me of, and I think many may have seen the same thing, is the phrase 'It's bringing us closer together as a nation'. Maybe with some, but in many countries I see it taking ppl farther APART (the US for sure, and likely Europe I think, from the viewpoint of an outsider-maybe Im wrong). A hard left vs a hard right, leaving many closer to the middle thinking' What. are these people blind, bigoted, or both? I think it concerning as to where it might (is?) leading.
Although unlike most Bernie Sanders supporters the dude wandered around in public performing Nazi salutes so yeah.
Far be it from me to let facts get in the way of the narrative.
But if you take the time to actually look at his account.
His motives are pretty clear considering from where he shared pictures of his own little stunt from and what it says. A stunt which he was kicked out for, by the way.
Comments
I wasn't referring to you specifically with those comments earlier so I'm sorry if it came across that way. There was a long stream of conservatism bashing and yours was just the post I decided to answer. It's hard to convey meaning sometimes with this limited medium.
And a lot of the alt right is both of those things. They put it on display on a daily basis.
That said I hope I didn't come across as talking about people on this forum, as I wasn't. I was responding to a comment about why the Montana voters might not want to vote for a Democrat. And I was being a bit confrontational about it because I did not think (and still do not think) that any degree of niceness or flattery will woo many of these voters from their hard right beliefs. It's not people calling them racist or misogynist that are radicalizing them, it's their own political beliefs.
GOP House candidate not a big enough story, how about the Gov. of Texas?? Right, right I get it. It's a "joke". I'm gonna carry a gun around in case I need to shoot a reporter. Get it?? Because reporters are so bad that I might have to shoot them. Funny, right?? A regular goddamn Richard Pryor we have here. WHEN (not if) a reporter gets shot in this country, remember Trump, and Gianforte, and Greg Abbott.
"Sure he talks about shooting reporters, hates muslims, wants to abolish my healthcare, and will give tax cuts to all his millionaire buddies, but he's a fiscal conservative so all the poor people in my state will be worse off!"
Surely we can do better than this?
The Republicans Are the Party of Thugs and Nazis:Those are the facts
src: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/05/26/the_national_republican_party_tolerates_violence_and_explicit_racism.htmlMark it down....when this is over, Watergate will seem like a molehill. This is an entirely different ballgame.
"He then warned against committing human rights violations, before joking: "If you rape three people, I will admit that I did it.""
http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/26/asia/philippines-duterte-speech/index.html
He has a history apparently of making 'jokes' like that. So is he really encouraging his troops to commit atrocities? Pretty much it sounds like he's saying if you do something terrible, we can all have a good laugh about it (except presumably those people who were brutalized) and don't worry nothing will happen.
So is he going to get in trouble or get away with it? He's surely going to get away with it. I mean he's had people killed, whats a little rape 'joke' compared to that? What's a little provocative statement that makes you scratch your head and wonder if the guy is serious?
Anyway, to me, this is clearly the danger of turning a blind eye to the little things and then you end up with a bigger picture problem. This is letting Hitler get away with a coup, then saying it's okay if he goes after the gypsies, or poor people because they are not me. Don't worry your turn will come when it's too late to hold him back.
At the worst case, you give these guys an inch and they'll keep going until people are getting killed. They don't give a damn about 'the people'. Doesn't this sound familiar throw away lines about assaulting reporters sound like a first step to me.
This is what I mean by terrorism being a word that means nothing. This guy killed two people who defended a Muslim he was hurling slurs at. This act is utterly political in nature. Where are the media reports calling this guy a terrorist?? Where are the mass demonstrations of white people condemning this guy?? For that matter, where is the massive national coverage of this at all?? If a Muslim had done this it would dominate the headlines for days. This makes 3 people killed by members of the so-called "Alt-Reich" in the last 10 days, as a black member of the military was slain by another one of these monsters just last week.
three prominent members of President Trump’s family — his sons Eric Trump and Donald Trump Jr., and Eric’s wife, Lara — have ramped up their engagement with the Republican Party’s national political operation, having met privately with GOP leaders to share their concerns and outlook.
Their most recent effort came Thursday, when the president’s eldest sons and Lara Trump visited the Republican National Committee’s headquarters in Washington. Those three family members, who were invited by the RNC, stayed for about two hours, according to four people who were not authorized to speak publicly.
Is this America, or are we now living with the Borgias or the Romanovs??
Would you be thinking the same thing if the CEO of Travel Lodge met with the republican party?
What's more concerning for me, and has been since he's been doing it from the get go is Trump using his family's property and businesses for official White House businesses. THAT is what should be getting American's up in arms. But if they just shrug, this is more of a meh.
https://m.facebook.com/jeremy.christian.581?lst=662851421:100001609687960:1495931261
So was the Manchester bomber.
So was the person responsible for this terrorist act
maybe terror shouldn't be the thing we are going to war against. Perhaps we should be focusing our time and energy on helping the mentally ill so they are not persuaded to do these heinous acts.
On another note:
Two other things I have been watchin and find interesting, from a conflict management point of view. I can't say about the Ottawa because I did not get enough detail that I wanted from that article, but it is similar to some other things that happen. I think often ppl get label as mentally ill because some cannot believe a person could be sane and do the things they sometimes do. Now granted, some are, but for others they are sane and think through the process rationally as just the next logical and sometimes only option they feel they have left. It is just that some folks CANNOT imagine why or how, someone could do such things.
I think and have seen first hand that this can be dangerous thinking and can leave 'protections' unprepared.
As 'Freedom fighters' in some countries that are sometimes hailed as 'heros' in a sense could also be classified as terrorists, by action, and they often go through the same thought processes. They are not normally seen as mentally ill (at least by there supporters anyway).
The other thing the article reminded me of, and I think many may have seen the same thing, is the phrase 'It's bringing us closer together as a nation'.
Maybe with some, but in many countries I see it taking ppl farther APART (the US for sure, and likely Europe I think, from the viewpoint of an outsider-maybe Im wrong). A hard left vs a hard right, leaving many closer to the middle thinking' What. are these people blind, bigoted, or both?
I think it concerning as to where it might (is?) leading.
But if you take the time to actually look at his account.
His motives are pretty clear considering from where he shared pictures of his own little stunt from and what it says. A stunt which he was kicked out for, by the way.