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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited September 2017
    Hard to know what to talk about today: The fact that the GOP is STILL obsessed with killing people with pre-existing conditions (Graham/Cassidy is the worst bill yet, and they are trying to push it through without a CBO score) or the fact that Paul Manafort is almost certainly going to be indicted AND we now know he has been under electronic surveillance since 2014. The Republican Party remains a moral dumpster fire.

    And as for the new revelations about Russia using Facebook to strategically target voters with anti-Hillary propaganda, know that people in the US were directing them on who and where to target. So remember the name Cambridge Analytica, and realize that the President's son-in-law was in charge of this branch of the campaign. When this is over, this country is going to have to ask ourselves what we do when it is revealed that a President was elected illegitimately. The Founders did not write this situation into the constitution.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    There's the fraudulent voter fraud commission using private email servers while conducting federal business. Experts say that runs afoul of the presidential records act. Email scandal, lock em up!

    https://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/experts-say-the-use-of-private-email-by-voters-voter-fraud-commission-isnt-legal/Content?oid=6724861
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    "Elected illegitimately"? Are you certain of that? Do we have proof that election results were altered? Were voting machines rigged? Were election officials paid off to certify false results? No? Then the election was legitimate. You don't have to like the results, of course, but you do have to live with them. Just suck it up for another 3 years because then he'll be gone and you won't have to think about him ever again.

    No one prosecuted Hillary for her e-mail server issue; no one will prosecute these people, either. The issue with that "voter fraud commission" isn't that they are using personal e-mail accounts; rather, the *real* issue is that it exists at all. Voter fraud is so rare in this country that you have to search diligently to find any story where someone is charged and convicted of it. When the commission asked for publicly available voter rolls that appeared to be the first step to compiling a very lengthy enemies list.

    *************

    I read a news story where a reporter was speaking with a protester in St. Louis; according to her, if you aren't actively protesting police brutality then you are actively supporting it. This is not only a logical fallacy, it is demonstrably false.
    Let us follow her logic for a moment. If you aren't actively protesting against human trafficking then you are actively supporting it. If you aren't actively protesting against the IS then you are actively supporting it. If you aren't actively protesting against child abuse then you are actively supporting it. See how easily that logic fails?

    Yes, it is a tragedy that another white police officer killed a black person whom they were chasing but he was charged, tried in a court, and found "not guilty"--that is still justice even if you disagree with the decision. Trashing your own city is *not* the way to protest something.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited September 2017
    He said when it comes out that he was elected illegitimately. As in he expects that outcome. There has been a lot of smoke but so far no fire has been publicity accepted. Why does he need to know the facts and have proof beforehand when "Twitter man" just makes stuff up all the time lol. Why's he held to a higher standard than the President of the United States?

    Hillary was a cabinet secretary and subject to different statutes and regulations. Trump made up and appointed this sham election thing with the purpose of stealing future elections. Since it is a function of the executive branch, it is subject to the presidential records act of 1973

    Under the Presidential Records Act, which applies to the presidentially created election integrity commission, official records are not allowed to be written or sent via a "non-official electronic message account." There is an exception to that rule if the records are also copied to an official email account.
    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037

    Why's he held to a higher standard than the President of the United States?

    erm...because @jjstraka34 is better than Trump is.

    Speaking of the President Records Act of 1973...that is why Trump uses Twitter so much--as of this time, that social medium is technically not covered by the Act. Someone should correct that oversight. (Yes, I know--many people are archiving his tweets but those compilations are not "official".) Incidentally, "cabinet secretary" is also in the Executive and reports directly to the President.

    What else do we have....hrm....

    Oh, crap--a 7.1 hit in Mexico, south of Puebla and southwest of Mexico City itself; this is on the heels of that recent 8.1, the aftermath of which they haven't finished rebuilding yet.

    Maria is about to slam Puerto Rico--can't we just make them a State already? That would help them a *lot*.

    Why the heck is Trump suggesting that our military intervene in Venezuela? They aren't a threat. Sure, the situation there is devastatingly horrible but the government of Venezuela has done that to its own people and nation. No one did it to them externally.

    The people suing the Trump Administration over his plans to end DACA...well, DACA was set up by an Executive Order so it takes only a stoke of the pen for a President to rescind an Executive Order. If it is "illegal" to end the program then it was "illegal" to start it in the first place. No, we need *real* immigration reform from Congress, not the Executive Branch.

    India wants to deport 16,000 Rohingya Muslim refugees back to Burma. That would be like the women's shelter sending a battered wife back home to her abusive husband.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    The only requirement I have to meet to be a better person than Donald Trump is to not sexually assault anyone. It's not a high bar.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited September 2017
    In reagrds to his comments about North Korea today....most people don't go in front of the United Nations and threaten to destroy a country. But beyond that, what Trump and the right-wing doesn't seem to understand is that the US has ZERO military leverage against North Korea unless they are willing to sacrifice the city of Seoul, be responsible for the death of millions of people, and cause a global economic disaster. You either engage in diplomacy with North Korea or you don't, but any military action is placing a staunch ally on the sacrficial altar. And if Trump doesn't have any property or financial stakes in South Korea, they should be very worried.

    Meanwhile, Don Jr. is giving up his Secret Service protection because he wants more privacy. #1 I didn't even realize you could do this and #2 it is grossly irresponsible. If something should happen to him, it's impossible to say he didn't at least partially make his own bed.
  • Yulaw9460Yulaw9460 Member Posts: 634
    You did hear his speech, right?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited September 2017
    Yulaw9460 said:

    You did hear his speech, right?

    Of course we have the ABILITY to destroy North Korea. But the country is a death cult as much as Imperial Japan was. While we are striking, their last act as a regime will be to launch an all-out assault on Seoul, which they are more than capable of. You cannot preemptively attack North Korea without being willing to sacrifice the South.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    Exactly, and this is the reason everyone has tolerated the DPRK's instability--at least the instability of its leaders--for decades.

    Be aware, though, that there is a clear difference between an actual threat--"I am going to kill you"--and a statement being threatening--"if you attack me I will respond with considerable force and violence".

    *************

    In about a month in the United States it will be Columbus Day--that is what it is still officially called on most calendars despite many people opting for Indigenous People's Day (I don't care which one you call it--it doesn't matter to me either way.) This does force us to ask the following question: how far back does your ancestry have to go before you are considered "indigenous"? If I am born here, my parents were born here, my grandparents were born here, and their parents were born here doesn't that make me a native? Where, exactly, is the cutoff? Five generations? Ten generations? Fifteen? No one has ever given an answer to that question.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963

    Exactly, and this is the reason everyone has tolerated the DPRK's instability--at least the instability of its leaders--for decades.

    Be aware, though, that there is a clear difference between an actual threat--"I am going to kill you"--and a statement being threatening--"if you attack me I will respond with considerable force and violence".

    *************.

    I'm positive that distinction will be lost on both of the blustering oafs involved. Besides its like saying "I will murder you and everyone you care about, salt your fields, destroy your country, and personally take your arms off ..if you provoke me". The last bit isn't the critical thing of the threat is it?


    In about a month in the United States it will be Columbus Day--that is what it is still officially called on most calendars despite many people opting for Indigenous People's Day (I don't care which one you call it--it doesn't matter to me either way.) This does force us to ask the following question: how far back does your ancestry have to go before you are considered "indigenous"? If I am born here, my parents were born here, my grandparents were born here, and their parents were born here doesn't that make me a native? Where, exactly, is the cutoff? Five generations? Ten generations? Fifteen? No one has ever given an answer to that question.

    Indigenous People's Day, I take it to mean the people that were here before Columbus.

    After the country became the USA people born here after that are called Americans.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    Exactly, and this is the reason everyone has tolerated the DPRK's instability--at least the instability of its leaders--for decades.

    Be aware, though, that there is a clear difference between an actual threat--"I am going to kill you"--and a statement being threatening--"if you attack me I will respond with considerable force and violence".

    *************

    In about a month in the United States it will be Columbus Day--that is what it is still officially called on most calendars despite many people opting for Indigenous People's Day (I don't care which one you call it--it doesn't matter to me either way.) This does force us to ask the following question: how far back does your ancestry have to go before you are considered "indigenous"? If I am born here, my parents were born here, my grandparents were born here, and their parents were born here doesn't that make me a native? Where, exactly, is the cutoff? Five generations? Ten generations? Fifteen? No one has ever given an answer to that question.

    If your ancestors came from Europe, you're out of the running. If your ancestors were brought over to be bought by those Europeans on a slave ship, in this case, you are also out of the running. As George Carlin once said (paraphrasing), there used to be a beautiful country where the United States is now. Pristine nature. And we managed to turn it into a coast to coast shopping mall.
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,174

    Yulaw9460 said:

    You did hear his speech, right?

    Of course we have the ABILITY to destroy North Korea. But the country is a death cult as much as Imperial Japan was. While we are striking, their last act as a regime will be to launch an all-out assault on Seoul, which they are more than capable of. You cannot preemptively attack North Korea without being willing to sacrifice the South.
    I concur on the threat to South Korea but would push back on the 'death cult' aspect. North Korea, like Imperial Japan, is in my opinion led by a group of elites who have as their number one priority self preservation, and by extension the preservation of their current status. Imperial Japan was willing to sacrifice Okinawans to gain more time for negotiations through Russia, but Okinawans have always been
    subject to local prejudice. Significant local dissension was one of the primary reasons why elites eventually ended the war, had it been feasible for the Allies to guarantee the security of the present government then imperial Japan would likely have ceased fighting much earlier.... though that would arguably not have been beneficial for the Japanese people. Similarly while North Korea presents an irrational facade its actions seem entirely rational given the goals of its elites, and the low value they accord to the rest of the population. However it is my belief that, just as kamikaze pilots tended to think of their families rather than the Emperor, many North Koreans are just concerned with getting through the day and finding food for their family as best they can regardless of whatever it is that the regime demands from them.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    True. Kim Jong-un and company do not have a death wish. Their hostile rhetoric and WMD capabilities are specifically there to deter the U.S., which otherwise could easily remove the regime and reunify the peninsula under a southern flag. They also keep the Chinese scared enough to keep funding the Kim regime, as the Chinese are afraid of reunification for unrelated reasons (to simplify the matter: they dislike Kim, but they fear the U.S. more).

    So far, the strategy has worked. The Kim regime continues to be in power in spite of its corruption, incompetence, and pure malice towards its own people. There is no opposition within the DPRK, the government's domestic approval rating, as meaningless as it may be, is at 100%, and the U.S. has no plans to invade and overthrow the absolute worst government on the planet.

    The only two known methods of solving the problem of North Korea are a peace deal and war. A peace deal is practically unthinkable for most policymakers and politically dangerous for any elected official who might support it (and the North may simply disregard it like they have all of our other deals), and while the odds of a U.S. victory in the war are sky-high, it's also a virtual certainty that millions (yes, millions; they've run the numbers) of people will die.

    Otherwise, the Kim regime will remain in power and continue starving its people, murdering and torturing dissidents, hobbling North Korea's economy, robbing foreign countries, and getting away with it by threatening to commit mass murder against the innocent South Koreans.
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835
    edited September 2017
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/11/131120-science-native-american-people-migration-siberia-genetics/


    There are some DNA specialists saying that the indigenous of North and South America are a mixture of First Dynasty Chinese and Hellenes.

    This says they are a mix of Hellenes, Egyptian and and Middle Eastern.


    http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/831180-geneticist-traces-mysterious-origins-of-native-americans-to-middle-east-ancient-greece/
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    *************

    In about a month in the United States it will be Columbus Day--that is what it is still officially called on most calendars despite many people opting for Indigenous People's Day (I don't care which one you call it--it doesn't matter to me either way.) This does force us to ask the following question: how far back does your ancestry have to go before you are considered "indigenous"? If I am born here, my parents were born here, my grandparents were born here, and their parents were born here doesn't that make me a native? Where, exactly, is the cutoff? Five generations? Ten generations? Fifteen? No one has ever given an answer to that question.

    You can also be put into my situation, where on my mother's side, we can trace our ancestry back to the first Metis, but my father was born in Ireland. I am technically a first generation Canadian and indigenous.

    It more has to do with forgotten and stolen culture than ancestry though.

    ~~

    After Trump's speech at the UN, I now believe he is the biggest threat to world peace than any other world leader.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited September 2017
    Wouldn't it be a better investment in our people seeing as how now we spend more than the next 10 countries combined now.
    image

    and
    Got to imagine crowd size obsessed Donnie is really really upset about this.

  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037

    Indigenous People's Day, I take it to mean the people that were here before Columbus.

    After the country became the USA people born here after that are called Americans.

    Exactly. The correct answer to the question I asked is "one generation". If you are born in a country you are a native of that country and you are also indigenous, based on the definition of the word, that definition being "originating where it is found". If you are born in a place, you originated there and if you can also still be found there then you satisfy the definition.

    It is definitely a shame that events transpired the way that they did but I think people are negatively criticizing Columbus more than he deserves. The germ theory of disease was not known at the time and so no one could have known that diseases to which European people were relatively immune would impact those populations. Also, the insular nature of the land in which they were living kept the First Nations from developing technology which would have put them on a more equal footing with European immigrants/invaders. Millennia of interactions and warfare between people in Europe, Africa, and Asia forced them to keep trying to outdo each other technology-wise--in one sense the history of the world can be traced via military technology (iron swords are better than bronze ones, steel is better than iron, etc). The Nations never had a need for printing presses or gunpowder and so they never developed them.

    I am also uncertain why the United States gets such negative reactions on that topic, as well. It isn't like ours is the only nation to have done what it did in times past. Pick any nation in the world in existence today and you will find that it was founded by group of people A pushing out or subjugating group of people B. In fact, check the international news and you will find that sort of thing occurring right now. As I have noted many times before, human beings do not like each other very much.

    On a tangentially-related topic, this is why we need to meet non-Terrestrial races in space. The instant non-Terrestrials land on Earth and that is the first time we meet them we are doomed--when group A meets group B the group with the better level of technology wins, every time.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963

    On a tangentially-related topic, this is why we need to meet non-Terrestrial races in space. The instant non-Terrestrials land on Earth and that is the first time we meet them we are doomed--when group A meets group B the group with the better level of technology wins, every time.

    Let's hope that if a illegal alien race decides to land on Earth that they have something similar to the Prime Directive.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    They won't. The Prime Directive of which you speak was a concept made up by Gene Roddenberry for his very progressive Federation; it was designed to combat the very thing for which many people rightfully blame countries who, in decades and centuries past, did things they ought not have done--forcibly intervene in less technologically-advanced countries and disrupt both their society and their politics, often by toppling the existing government and setting up a puppet.

    Forget all those feel-good movies about aliens landing here and the noble humans being able to stand up against them, ultimately driving them away. No, if--when--they land here they will do as they please and there won't be a single thing we can do about it. The resistance will last only until they start mass-driving us from orbit or spraying pathogens into the atmosphere then waiting.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    edited September 2017
    @Mathsorcerer Sometimes the disruption can happen even without noticing, there does not need to be an effort to topple any existing government. For example, introducing trivial things like steel tools to a primitive society is a huge disruption even though it's trivial for us. If you're the leader of a tribe because you have best stone axe, what happens when explorers come in and casually hand a steel axe to your rival...
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    US alt-right is attempting to meddle in Germany's election.

    Emboldened by the installation of Donald Trump and successful Russian meddling in the US election, US alt-right internet trolls and bots have meddled in the German election. A specific link to Russia has not been discovered but there are links to the US alt-right.

    The German government has been notified that an alliance of mostly anonymous online trolls and extremists are disseminating right wing propaganda online. Germany has been a hotspot for #altright and targeted attacks against #Merkel and #shultz.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/09/20/meddling-germany-election-not-russia-but-u-s-right-wing/676142001
  • QuickbladeQuickblade Member Posts: 957

    Meanwhile, Don Jr. is giving up his Secret Service protection because he wants more privacy. #1 I didn't even realize you could do this and #2 it is grossly irresponsible. If something should happen to him, it's impossible to say he didn't at least partially make his own bed.

    I knew it was possible when I looked up the Secret Service on Wikipedia a few months back when it was first announced that they were getting bankrupted by the Trump family.

    Wikipedia on the rather large list of TYPES people they protect:

    "Any of these individuals may decline Secret Service protection except the President, the Vice President (or other officer next in the order of succession to the Office of President), the President-elect, and the Vice President-elect."
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    More horrific numbers from Graham/Cassidy: A 31% cut to children's Medicaid (that's 1/3 for those scoring at home), a 15% cut to those with disabilities, and likely 32 million more uninsured.
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835
    Balrog99 said:

    @Mathsorcerer Sometimes the disruption can happen even without noticing, there does not need to be an effort to topple any existing government. For example, introducing trivial things like steel tools to a primitive society is a huge disruption even though it's trivial for us. If you're the leader of a tribe because you have best stone axe, what happens when explorers come in and casually hand a steel axe to your rival...

    Or introducing a Coke bottle! The Gods Must be Crazy was a great movie about what you're referring to here...
    Some religions today also have their own coke bottle.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited September 2017
    So, in the realm of something fairly inconsequential but totally revealing, the fired Google engineer had one of the stupidest takes imaginable today on Twitter. He started with stating thar even though he finds their conduct deplorable, we at least need to admit that the KKK's leaders have names that sound cool (Grand Wizard etc). Whatever to that part. I have no idea why anyone would have that cross their mind, but ok. But THEN he makes the argument that being interested in fantasy-ish hobbies is so stigmatized in society that the KKK embracing those monikers among their leadership is going to drive disillusioned fans of fantasy to join the Klan. No joke. First off, it isn't even really true that fantasy is stigmatized anymore. But more to the point, as an entire forum of D&D geeks, have any of you been inspired to join the Klan because someone made fun of your Monster Manual?? This idea is so monumentally stupid that I don't know if he actually believes it, or if backhanded compliments to the KKK are just something you have to engage in to be taken seriously by the Alt-right. Moronic.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    edited September 2017
    Or maybe it's a troll
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    Or maybe it's a troll

    I'm 100% sure that will be the excuse in hindsight, because it always is.
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