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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    So Trump is literally going through and DELETING tweets from his timeline that had him endorsing Luther Strange. Normally, this would fall into the "who gives a shit??' category, but this is wholly representative of how he plays his base voters. The past does not matter by and large to Republican voters. They wanted to erase Bush, so they all pretended they had never heard of him and created the Tea Party. There is a Trump tweet for nearly ANY issue that comes up (on a day to day basis) from the last 4 or 5 years that DIRECTLY contradicts the position he is taking at that particular moment. And now he is just straight up deleting his endorsement of the losing candidate tonight because, hey, why not?? If I say it isn't real, they'll still believe me. Hell, by next Tuesday, I'll have them convinced I ALWAYS supported Roy Moore and not Luther Strange. After all, we've always been at war with Eastasia.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    edited September 2017
    Mantis37 said:

    The Korean War was after 1945 as well.

    Balrog99 said:

    I'm starting to agree with you about the 10%'rs but the other 40% is likely where we differ. Liberalism wins in the long run but conservatism stops revolution. I'm a conservative because of my brain, not my heart...

    This reminded me of the old saying that if you are a conservative when you are young you have no heart, but if you are a liberal when you are old then you have no head.
    I've heard the same saying. Never really thought it was true until I got old!

    Edit: although 50 isn't really that old anymore. Just feels like it sometimes...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited September 2017
    Balrog99 said:

    France lost millions saying screw you to Germany in WW1. The USSR said screw you to Germany and lost 20 million in WW2.

    I'd say WW1 was probably the most pointless loss of human life in the history of this planet. WW2 was absolutely necessary. And the creation of flawed but necessary bodies like the European Union, NATO and the UN were so the European continent wouldn't plunge the world into a third hellish conflict.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    WW1 was a needless tragedy but it hastened the end of colonialism so it was probably necessary in the landscape of human history. WW2 was the result of the absolute stupidity and arrogance of the victors of the 'Great War' (who barely won) and was completely unnecessary for progress...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    This may seem like small potatoes but it isn't. Governing is serious stuff, and we have to start asking ourselves what the hell we are doing in this country when our President is sitting around in the White House at 11pm deleting portions of his Twitter timeline when there is a massive humanitarian crisis taking place in a US territory.

    This came out tonight, and I've known it since he came down the escalator to announce his campaign, but this is all this man is about. And this country is going to be at each other's throats until he is out of office, because he is creating these divisions on purpose:
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371

    This may seem like small potatoes but it isn't. Governing is serious stuff, and we have to start asking ourselves what the hell we are doing in this country when our President is sitting around in the White House at 11pm deleting portions of his Twitter timeline when there is a massive humanitarian crisis taking place in a US territory.

    This came out tonight, and I've known it since he came down the escalator to announce his campaign, but this is all this man is about. And this country is going to be at each other's throats until he is out of office, because he is creating these divisions on purpose:

    He couldn't wage war if there wasn't a spark under the surface. Change too fast is chaos. Sorry, but the truth hurts. Changes can't be forced on people...
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    Education is the answer, not propaganda...
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    I find the whole concept of a culture "war" to be very strange.

    Who are the combatants? What do the weapons look like? What do the weapons do?

    How do you win? What does victory look like?

    I think "culture war" really just means a big argument that never ends.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    Don't tell us we're all going to die in the next 20 years or even the next 100 because of fossil fuels. Tell us honestly how much it will cost us to solve the problem and let us decide. Don't tell us we're a bunch of racists because we don't feel responsible for our grandfathers sins, tell us honestly how much it'll cost us to supposedly atone for those sins. Better yet, tell me how I'm responsible being I'm mostly Irish and German and have nothing to do with those past sins. I'm sick and tired of hearing about these so-called evils that I'm not responsible for but I sure as Hell would like to know how these so called problems can be solved. From what I see, the Democrats can portray all kinds of problems but have no real solutions for many of them. If I'm willing to give in on health care for all and dinners for all students what are they willing to surrender? Just curious as to the solution to an almost 50/50 split between the two sides. .
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    Nobody gets everything they want in a 50/50 split. Sorry to be such a shit but it's true...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Balrog99 said:

    This may seem like small potatoes but it isn't. Governing is serious stuff, and we have to start asking ourselves what the hell we are doing in this country when our President is sitting around in the White House at 11pm deleting portions of his Twitter timeline when there is a massive humanitarian crisis taking place in a US territory.

    This came out tonight, and I've known it since he came down the escalator to announce his campaign, but this is all this man is about. And this country is going to be at each other's throats until he is out of office, because he is creating these divisions on purpose:

    He couldn't wage war if there wasn't a spark under the surface. Change too fast is chaos. Sorry, but the truth hurts. Changes can't be forced on people...
    What was the change?? Gay people getting married?? How long were they supposed to wait to cater to the feelings of people whose lives they aren't impacting one iota?? A black President?? That's 1 out of 45. The problem is, there was NEVER going to be a right time for those things for some people. Ever. Roe v. Wade was in 1973. There STILL isn't an Equal Rights Amendment for women. The only thing that has changed is that a couple of demographic groups now are slightly closer to enjoying the same benefits of society that the majority does. And as I've said a dozen times, “to the privileged, equality feels like oppression.” There are FAR too many people in this country who see basic rights as a zero-sum game, and are convinced that if other people are gaining them, they are losing them, when in actuality it is nothing but their own insecurities taking over their psyche.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited September 2017
    Balrog99 said:

    Don't tell us we're all going to die in the next 20 years or even the next 100 because of fossil fuels. Tell us honestly how much it will cost us to solve the problem and let us decide. Don't tell us we're a bunch of racists because we don't feel responsible for our grandfathers sins, tell us honestly how much it'll cost us to supposedly atone for those sins. Better yet, tell me how I'm responsible being I'm mostly Irish and German and have nothing to do with those past sins. I'm sick and tired of hearing about these so-called evils that I'm not responsible for but I sure as Hell would like to know how these so called problems can be solved. From what I see, the Democrats can portray all kinds of problems but have no real solutions for many of them. If I'm willing to give in on health care for all and dinners for all students what are they willing to surrender? Just curious as to the solution to an almost 50/50 split between the two sides. .

    I'd argue that nothing significant has been done or will be done on global warming despite that rhetoric, so you win on that one regardless. We aren't going to take it seriously. We aren't going to do anything about guns, ever. There will never be reparations, the only thing most liberals would like is for most white people to acknowledge that being born black in this country is a serious impediment to getting ahead simply based on the cultural history of this country. That maybe cops shouldn't being killing so many unarmed people of color. And yeah, to fix this ridiculous health care system that every other country on Earth has figured out.

    But liberals are never going to get what we want on global warming and gun control. Those fights are over. The planet is either doomed or it isn't. We are going to have to be resigned to the fact that this country is going to have mass shootings on a nearly daily basis. Conservatives are going to have to realize that we aren't going back to back-alley abortions and telling women that they have to be incubators, and that we aren't going to just strip health-care from tens of millions of people. But we can't even start at those lines, so I'm not sure what to do.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371

    Balrog99 said:

    This may seem like small potatoes but it isn't. Governing is serious stuff, and we have to start asking ourselves what the hell we are doing in this country when our President is sitting around in the White House at 11pm deleting portions of his Twitter timeline when there is a massive humanitarian crisis taking place in a US territory.

    This came out tonight, and I've known it since he came down the escalator to announce his campaign, but this is all this man is about. And this country is going to be at each other's throats until he is out of office, because he is creating these divisions on purpose:

    He couldn't wage war if there wasn't a spark under the surface. Change too fast is chaos. Sorry, but the truth hurts. Changes can't be forced on people...
    What was the change?? Gay people getting married?? How long were they supposed to wait to cater to the feelings of people whose lives they aren't impacting one iota?? A black President?? That's 1 out of 45. The problem is, there was NEVER going to be a right time for those things for some people. Ever. Roe v. Wade was in 1973. There STILL isn't an Equal Rights Amendment for women. The only thing that has changed is that a couple of demographic groups now are slightly closer to enjoying the same benefits of society that the majority does. And as I've said a dozen times, “to the privileged, equality feels like oppression.” There are FAR too many people in this country who see basic rights as a zero-sum game, and are convinced that if other people are gaining them, they are losing them, when in actuality it is nothing but their own insecurities taking over their psyche.
    But the social issues aren't everything. Sorry, but there are other issues too. The bullshit war against the rich is part of it. Without the rich some of the best parts of human history would be nothing. I'm not rich but I sure as Hell am glad that there were rich sponsors for many of our best artists, philosophers and scientists of the past. Without some people free from worrying about everyday existence we diminish ourselves. I'm really fricking sorry to say it but it's the goddamned truth. Sometimes I wish I was one of them but mostly I don't. Wanting to be something we're not is a waste of energy. It doesn't mean they're better than us. It just means they're different...
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    edited September 2017
    Ill add to that. There are a lot of rich assholes but there are at least as many poor assholes. They're all assholes...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited September 2017
    Balrog99 said:

    Ill add to that. There are a lot of rich assholes but there are at least as many poor assholes...

    I'd argue that 75% of humanity fits into this category, at least on the male side of things. Definitely lower for the ladies, but aside from a couple of old friends and family, I almost exclusively prefer the company of women.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    I agree but women live in fantasyland for the most part. That doesn't exclude them from assholedom. I also don't exclude myself for that matter. 75% seems a bit much even for a sceptic like me!
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    I'd put the percentage off assholedom at around 25% myself but they get most of the press!
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,447
    Balrog99 said:

    Don't tell us we're all going to die in the next 20 years or even the next 100 because of fossil fuels. Tell us honestly how much it will cost us to solve the problem and let us decide.

    Climate change isn't something that can be solved by the actions of an individual country, though I agree that an honest appraisal of the issues for ordinary citizens would be helpful. I'm also not sure it's appropriate that decisions on how to react to climate change are left entirely to individual countries as the impacts on them and their ability to react to changes are so hugely different. It may not be reasonable to expect citizens of the US to empathize with the challenges to Pacific island nations for example.

    Incidentally, I came across this set of visuals about the historic progress of climate change, which seems quite well done.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    edited September 2017

    Balrog99 said:

    Don't tell us we're all going to die in the next 20 years or even the next 100 because of fossil fuels. Tell us honestly how much it will cost us to solve the problem and let us decide. Don't tell us we're a bunch of racists because we don't feel responsible for our grandfathers sins, tell us honestly how much it'll cost us to supposedly atone for those sins. Better yet, tell me how I'm responsible being I'm mostly Irish and German and have nothing to do with those past sins. I'm sick and tired of hearing about these so-called evils that I'm not responsible for but I sure as Hell would like to know how these so called problems can be solved. From what I see, the Democrats can portray all kinds of problems but have no real solutions for many of them. If I'm willing to give in on health care for all and dinners for all students what are they willing to surrender? Just curious as to the solution to an almost 50/50 split between the two sides. .

    I'd argue that nothing significant has been done or will be done on global warming despite that rhetoric, so you win on that one regardless. We aren't going to take it seriously. We aren't going to do anything about guns, ever. There will never be reparations, the only thing most liberals would like is for most white people to acknowledge that being born black in this country is a serious impediment to getting ahead simply based on the cultural history of this country. That maybe cops shouldn't being killing so many unarmed people of color. And yeah, to fix this ridiculous health care system that every other country on Earth has figured out.

    But liberals are never going to get what we want on global warming and gun control. Those fights are over. The planet is either doomed or it isn't. We are going to have to be resigned to the fact that this country is going to have mass shootings on a nearly daily basis. Conservatives are going to have to realize that we aren't going back to back-alley abortions and telling women that they have to be incubators, and that we aren't going to just strip health-care from tens of millions of people. But we can't even start at those lines, so I'm not sure what to do.
    Time will heal most of those wounds. Look at history. Trying to change too many things at once is a recipe for disaster. I can't browbeat my parents into agreeing with me, but I do make them think. That's a start. They also didn't stop me from studying the sciences even though a lot of what I learned was against their religion. People are not as mindless as we think or even that they want us to believe ...
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Balrog99 said:


    But the social issues aren't everything. Sorry, but there are other issues too. The bullshit war against the rich is part of it. Without the rich some of the best parts of human history would be nothing. I'm not rich but I sure as Hell am glad that there were rich sponsors for many of our best artists, philosophers and scientists of the past. Without some people free from worrying about everyday existence we diminish ourselves. I'm really fricking sorry to say it but it's the goddamned truth. Sometimes I wish I was one of them but mostly I don't. Wanting to be something we're not is a waste of energy. It doesn't mean they're better than us. It just means they're different...

    I highlighted the key word for you there.

    Philanthropy is very much nonexistent in todays world and only consumerism (IMO) is making strides in innovation, because that equals more money.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    Grond0 said:

    Balrog99 said:

    Don't tell us we're all going to die in the next 20 years or even the next 100 because of fossil fuels. Tell us honestly how much it will cost us to solve the problem and let us decide.

    Climate change isn't something that can be solved by the actions of an individual country, though I agree that an honest appraisal of the issues for ordinary citizens would be helpful. I'm also not sure it's appropriate that decisions on how to react to climate change are left entirely to individual countries as the impacts on them and their ability to react to changes are so hugely different. It may not be reasonable to expect citizens of the US to empathize with the challenges to Pacific island nations for example.

    Incidentally, I came across this set of visuals about the historic progress of climate change, which seems quite well done.
    Direct evidence will do a lot to advance the progress on climate change. I'm a bit of a sceptic because I know the global multinational corporations will profit from any new source of power we come up with. I know because I work for one of those corporations. They've made 'sustainability' a prayer word. I really don't believe it's because they have our best long-term interests in mind. Sorry but Dow made millions if not billions of $ when we phased out the so-called horrible chlorofluorocarbons in our aerosol cans. Dow patented the alternatives and they haven't even been even proven to be any 'better' as far as ozone layer consequences. BTW: The so-called 'hole' in the ozone layer was detected at exactly the same point in time when it was possible to detect it. There was no way of knowing whether it was always there or not...
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    No I don't work for Dow even though I live in Michigan so I don't have any 'direct' evidence...
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    deltago said:

    Balrog99 said:


    But the social issues aren't everything. Sorry, but there are other issues too. The bullshit war against the rich is part of it. Without the rich some of the best parts of human history would be nothing. I'm not rich but I sure as Hell am glad that there were rich sponsors for many of our best artists, philosophers and scientists of the past. Without some people free from worrying about everyday existence we diminish ourselves. I'm really fricking sorry to say it but it's the goddamned truth. Sometimes I wish I was one of them but mostly I don't. Wanting to be something we're not is a waste of energy. It doesn't mean they're better than us. It just means they're different...

    I highlighted the key word for you there.

    Philanthropy is very much nonexistent in todays world and only consumerism (IMO) is making strides in innovation, because that equals more money.
    How much of that is because they're under attack? That isn't the way it used to be. If everybody is the same it diminishes us all. I don't believe in nobility but I do believe there should be some that are above the concerns of the common folks. It sucks, but I unfortunately believe it is truth..
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    I wonder how or why supposed billionaire Trump thinks he's at all qualified to speak for the white working class. He's never been working class starting from his "small loan" of a million dollars from his dad and his dad bailing him out all those times he was going bankrupt and him constantly walking away from debt etc etc.

    As a white working class person, I want nothing to do with this guy. Go play with the other millionaires and billionaires, that's all you care about tax cuts. Well that and pitting the working class against each other.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    Innovation will come if everybody is used to their fullest ability. That isn't what is encouraged now, but it could be. How many Einsteins have been killed or lost in some way or another in Somalia or Ethiopia or even Saudi Arabia or the USA because they were squandered? There isn't even any way of knowing...
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    I guess I can even throw Puerto Rico and Cuba into that equation. Cancer could probably been cured a generation ago!
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371

    I wonder how or why supposed billionaire Trump thinks he's at all qualified to speak for the white working class. He's never been working class starting from his "small loan" of a million dollars from his dad and his dad bailing him out all those times he was going bankrupt and him constantly walking away from debt etc etc.

    As a white working class person, I want nothing to do with this guy. Go play with the other millionaires and billionaires, that's all you care about tax cuts. Well that and pitting the working class against each other.

    Because he isn't a liberal yes-man. Sorry, but the Democrat platform doesn't ring true for everybody. I think he's an uneducated boor but I still don't wish I'd voted for Hillary. There isn't any give and take anymore so it seems it's all or nothing. There should not be just two parties in this country.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Balrog99 said:

    deltago said:

    Balrog99 said:


    But the social issues aren't everything. Sorry, but there are other issues too. The bullshit war against the rich is part of it. Without the rich some of the best parts of human history would be nothing. I'm not rich but I sure as Hell am glad that there were rich sponsors for many of our best artists, philosophers and scientists of the past. Without some people free from worrying about everyday existence we diminish ourselves. I'm really fricking sorry to say it but it's the goddamned truth. Sometimes I wish I was one of them but mostly I don't. Wanting to be something we're not is a waste of energy. It doesn't mean they're better than us. It just means they're different...

    I highlighted the key word for you there.

    Philanthropy is very much nonexistent in todays world and only consumerism (IMO) is making strides in innovation, because that equals more money.
    How much of that is because they're under attack? That isn't the way it used to be. If everybody is the same it diminishes us all. I don't believe in nobility but I do believe there should be some that are above the concerns of the common folks. It sucks, but I unfortunately believe it is truth..
    because they are under attack? 0%. Unless you mean they are under attack by investors, then closer to 100%.

    Just look at the Hudson Bay Company and this story. Screw the people who work there, screw the people who still shop there, screw the history of the building. It makes me more money if you do this, so do it now. BTW, if the company did this, this asshole would just sell immediately taking his money and run and investing in another company to think short term gains.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    Well, some people do think long-term. Unless you're working in Wall Street everyday there is that...
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    Investors do control the direction of companies. I don't think that's breaking news. Wow, how startling, people who invest in the success of companies would like them to make a profit. Holy shit! Throw them in irons! You know what, if they fire everybody and sink the company, they lose money. Why don't the rich just hire everybody in the USA and then fire them. What a rush they would get!
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