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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    The only people who care about the White House Correspondent's Dinner are the people who actually attend that event. On a somewhat related topic, Michelle Wolf and I have something in common: neither of us has ever heard of the other.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited April 2018
    Before the White House Correspondence Dinner happened I read something that mentioned that Michelle Wolf was going. I glanced at the headline and thought it was talking about the author of Fire and Fury, but that's actually a guy named Michael Wolff.

    But anyway nothing she said was not worse than the things said daily by president "grab em by the kitty" Trump.
    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited May 2018
    With Netanyahu facing a political crisis at home, and itching for a war to distract from it, today he provided "evidence" of a secret Iranian nuclear program. Problem is, the so-called evidence is almost ten years old, and was known to US intelligence LONG before the Iran deal was ever put into place. It offers NO evidence Iran has broken the terms of the current deal, and his charade was put on today for an audience of one, who lapped it up as the intent was. As the walls close in around these two corrupt individuals, watch for both Trump and Netanyahu to beat the drums of war with Iran. What is being fed to the media today about Iran is total neo-con bullshit. They are purposefully passing off intelligence that Iran ONCE HAD a nuclear program to imply that they CURRENTLY do, which there is no evidence of. And it is being done deliberately.

    As a matter of fact, the White House had to DELETE an official statement claiming that they HAVE a clandestine nuclear program, to the correction of they HAD one. Pretty big goddamn difference. And if this is how easy it is to manipulate this White House into possibly world-changing positions, good f***king luck. Netanyahu now knows anything he says, even if it's a deliberate lie to advance his hawkish policies, will be taken in hook, line and sinker by Trump (and by extension his acolytes all over the country). The moment I heard what Netanyahu said today, I called bullshit in my own head. It took mere hours to be proven correct.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,451
    I agree this is a totally cynical, self-serving ploy by Netanyahu. I can just imagine how western press and governments would react if this kind of stunt were employed by a country like Russia. It would be nice if countries like the UK, France and Germany were to call out Israel on this one, but I guess they're not willing at the moment to rock the boat in case they can still persuade Trump not to pull out of the deal.

    I don't disagree that there are genuine reasons to be concerned about the Iran deal. To my mind those concerns should definitely not include their wider strategic posture in the Middle East - including a requirement that they must 'behave well' would make a deal impossible - but it is certainly reasonable to argue that the time-limited nature of the existing deal should be addressed. How could that be done? Well, laws and treaties that are time-limited are not particularly unusual. If there's still a reason for the treaty to exist at the end of the agreed term, I guess that one option would be to extend the deal ...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited May 2018
    Grond0 said:

    I agree this is a totally cynical, self-serving ploy by Netanyahu. I can just imagine how western press and governments would react if this kind of stunt were employed by a country like Russia. It would be nice if countries like the UK, France and Germany were to call out Israel on this one, but I guess they're not willing at the moment to rock the boat in case they can still persuade Trump not to pull out of the deal.

    I don't disagree that there are genuine reasons to be concerned about the Iran deal. To my mind those concerns should definitely not include their wider strategic posture in the Middle East - including a requirement that they must 'behave well' would make a deal impossible - but it is certainly reasonable to argue that the time-limited nature of the existing deal should be addressed. How could that be done? Well, laws and treaties that are time-limited are not particularly unusual. If there's still a reason for the treaty to exist at the end of the agreed term, I guess that one option would be to extend the deal ...

    The goal of the deal was the stop Iran's nuclear program. Ironically, what Netanyahu revealed today was precisely WHY the deal was made. US intelligence knew the program was going forward, and the deal was an attempt to stop it, which, to this point, it has. Iran "behaving" as the US and Israel sees fit are not what the deal is predicated on. Frankly, if the US backs out of this, I see absolutely no reason why Iran SHOULDN'T immediately start up their nuclear program, since our word will be as good as dirt, and it will prove Trump is able to be manipulated by Netanyahu's straight-up purposeful lies. This deal took YEARS to come together, and the neo-cons like Bolton around Trump and the Likud Party in Israel can't abide that it has actually worked, and are looking to torpedo it at any cost.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963

    ..And if this is how easy it is to manipulate this White House into possibly world-changing positions, good f***king luck. Netanyahu now knows anything he says, even if it's a deliberate lie to advance his hawkish policies, will be taken in hook, line and sinker by Trump (and by extension his acolytes all over the country). The moment I heard what Netanyahu said today, I called bullshit in my own head. It took mere hours to be proven correct.

    Trump is eager to believe and parrot anything that suits his interest at the time. He will also take credit on a moments notice for the right type of thing that usually doesn't involve him. He stands ever vigilant, ever ready to ignore anything he doesn't want to hear.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited May 2018
    So Trump apparently has leaked the questions that Mueller might have for Trump gathered from questioning his staff who have been questioned by Mueller and probably with Devin Nunes' help.

    About the questions
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/30/politics/special-counsel-trump-questions/index.html

    Why the questions are from team Trump..
    http://thehill.com/homenews/news/385602-muellers-former-assistant-says-grammatical-errors-prove-leaked-questions-came

    He tweeted that among the things being asked about collusion is not one of them and that the probe was started by illegally leaked classified info and you can't obstruct justice from that so therefore he's the most innocent person ever!

    There are of course problems with his claims. One the FBI was investigating Trump-Russia long before the Special Counsel was started, long before the dossier and all of that even. Two you can obstruct justice even if no crime has been charged yet. Three the information that Comey gave to a friend to share with the press was not and is not classified so there was no illegal leak of classified info and even if there was the underlying crimes exposed still happened and are a problem on their own merits.

    So I guess he leaked his list of what he thinks are the Mueller questions to say those things and I guess to let people move on from it. He has been able to do outrageous thing A, then a couple weeks later when he does outrageous F people have already moved on from thing A. And even though he hasn't answered anything from the questions he leaked people will just assume he has because time has passed and so he must have got away with it.

    I think another benefit of Trump illegally leaking this (see anyone can call it illegal leaking!) is that he's crowdsourcing his legal defense. Things like this NPR article helpfully point out to him things that his legal team might have missed:
    https://www.npr.org/2018/05/01/607340131/reported-mueller-questions-for-trump-hint-at-detail-not-yet-public-in-russia-pro
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited May 2018
    I would bet everything I own that Mueller's team DID NOT leak the questions, but that it was facilitated by Rudy Giuliani, for the express purpose of Trump then being able to PRETEND it was Mueller. There is no way in hell they would put this info out in public.

    By the way, if the questions ARE accurate, Trump is screwed. There are DOZENS of them, and Mueller will already know the answer to all of them from his other interviews. Trump WILL lie, there is simply no getting around it. And I see NO legitimate reason Trump can refuse this interview when Clinton had to appear before Ken Starr. He either invokes the 5th or purjures himself.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    If Giuliani had a hand in leaking the questions then he probably already has answers drafted for them which would be acceptable to the Mueller team. Also, note that these are the paraphrased versions of questions Mueller would *like* to ask Trump, not actual questions which he *will* ask.

    Just because Clinton appeared before Starr doesn't mean that Trump will appear before Mueller, at least without a subpoena.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    If Giuliani had a hand in leaking the questions then he probably already has answers drafted for them which would be acceptable to the Mueller team. Also, note that these are the paraphrased versions of questions Mueller would *like* to ask Trump, not actual questions which he *will* ask.

    Just because Clinton appeared before Starr doesn't mean that Trump will appear before Mueller, at least without a subpoena.

    His lawyers know he is toast if he sits for an interview. There is a 0% chance Trump gets through a set a questions remotely like this without perjuring himself. Eventually, subpoena will be necessary, and frankly I have no idea why they are "negotiating" at all.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    A subpoena would likely end up getting fought up to the Supreme Court. Mueller would probably win in the end, but you can never be certain that this court won't decide to cover for Republicans. Also, the process would take a long time. Depending on how much other evidence Mueller has, an interview with Trump might not be worth the delay.

    From a practical standpoint, I don't know how much it matters whether Trump perjures himself. I can't see that changing the minds of many voters (or members of congress) on the question of whether he has committed impeachable offenses. The GOP is simply not interested in holding anyone in this administration accountable for lying, whether it's to the public, to the senate, or to federal investigators.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Trump can't answer the questions honestly without admitting criminal activity. So he'll do what he always does - lie. They will question him about things he's been recorded saying and he'll change his story. The guy can't be pinned down by the truth.

    Why does Trump get a private interview and pre-screened questions anyway? Hillary, Bill, James Comey and others have faced the public. What a delicate individual.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    I strongly suspect Mueller doesn't have anything which he can connect directly to Trump so he is going to try the next best thing--throw a bunch of questions at him and hope he makes a stupid mistake.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited May 2018
    I suppose it barely even registers that today Trump's doctor has claimed that Trump's personal bodyguard and a couple of associates committed what can only be construed as a robbery to obtain Trump's medical records from the office. There are ways to go about getting ones medical records, which Trump has a right to. What he does NOT have a right to do is send a squad of goons over to the office to demand and take possession of the physical copies. Moreover, the doctor would have been REQUIRED to hold onto those records for six years under NY State Law. Sarah Sanders today called this "standard operating procedure". Everyone keep that in mind next time you need documentation from your local clinic. The official White House position seems to be that you can walk into the office and just TAKE them by physical force. At this point, it seems clear that among Trump's inner circle, his campaign manager, his lawyer, and his bodyguard have all engaged in blatantly criminal acts, some of them taken straight out of a random scene in a Scorsese movie.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,451
    His doctor also confirmed that Trump had written the 2015 letter about his physical himself. Given the language used (such as "astonishingly excellent" test results) that had been obvious from the start of course.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited May 2018
    Grond0 said:

    His doctor also confirmed that Trump had written the 2015 letter about his physical himself. Given the language used (such as "astonishingly excellent" test results) that had been obvious from the start of course.

    I have to wonder if the Doctor can lose his license for admitting what we all strongly suspected.

    I'm pretty sure if you are a doctor you are not supposed to allow your patient to write their own medical reports and then sign off on it like you wrote it. There's got to be some rules when you are a doctor right?

    image
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Let's all try to imagine what the reaction would have been if Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton had been found to have falsified their medical reports. Bear in mind, this took place while Trump was insinuating that Hillary Clinton was unfit for office because she contracted an illness on the campaign trail, leading to wild conspiracy theories up to and including that she was on death's door with a terminal illness, some of which were entertained as plausible in this very thread.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371

    Let's all try to imagine what the reaction would have been if Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton had been found to have falsified their medical reports. Bear in mind, this took place while Trump was insinuating that Hillary Clinton was unfit for office because she contracted an illness on the campaign trail, leading to wild conspiracy theories up to and including that she was on death's door with a terminal illness, some of which were entertained as plausible in this very thread.

    I would imagine that between 35-40% of people wouldn't give a crap because they like his/her policies and the rest would throw him/her under the bus. Pretty much what is happening with Trump...
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,451
    Balrog99 said:

    I would imagine that between 35-40% of people wouldn't give a crap because they like his/her policies and the rest would throw him/her under the bus. Pretty much what is happening with Trump...

    What concerns me is that I don't think the situations are the same. Even for Bill Clinton supporters a major problem with 'Monicagate' was the evasive (to put it kindly) answers given to investigators - even where they couldn't care less about the original actions. What Trump is doing is normalizing a situation where flat out lying is standard practice and whether something is true or not is seen as entirely irrelevant. I doubt that's healthy for politics in the longer term.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    "Healthy" politics died a long time ago.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Et tu, Brute?
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    My cousin tried to study medicine but thanks to affirmative actions created to protect the non white majority from the white minority here, she will not study medicine. If she had the right to affirmative action, her score will be sufficient. Thanks left. Until i leave this socialist hellhole, i will avoid have child. Nobody deserves live in this socialist hellhole with strict gun control, high taxes, almost no propriety rights, no right to self defense, centralized government and no freedom.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371

    My cousin tried to study medicine but thanks to affirmative actions created to protect the non white majority from the white minority here, she will not study medicine. If she had the right to affirmative action, her score will be sufficient. Thanks left. Until i leave this socialist hellhole, i will avoid have child. Nobody deserves live in this socialist hellhole with strict gun control, high taxes, almost no propriety rights, no right to self defense, centralized government and no freedom.

    What country are you living in?
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    Balrog99 said:

    My cousin tried to study medicine but thanks to affirmative actions created to protect the non white majority from the white minority here, she will not study medicine. If she had the right to affirmative action, her score will be sufficient. Thanks left. Until i leave this socialist hellhole, i will avoid have child. Nobody deserves live in this socialist hellhole with strict gun control, high taxes, almost no propriety rights, no right to self defense, centralized government and no freedom.

    What country are you living in?
    Unfortunately Southern part of Brazil but i wanna live at least in Chile, Uruguay or Argentina. They are not good as USA, but at least they don't have this insane level of socialism.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963

    Balrog99 said:

    My cousin tried to study medicine but thanks to affirmative actions created to protect the non white majority from the white minority here, she will not study medicine. If she had the right to affirmative action, her score will be sufficient. Thanks left. Until i leave this socialist hellhole, i will avoid have child. Nobody deserves live in this socialist hellhole with strict gun control, high taxes, almost no propriety rights, no right to self defense, centralized government and no freedom.

    What country are you living in?
    Unfortunately Southern part of Brazil but i wanna live at least in Chile, Uruguay or Argentina. They are not good as USA, but at least they don't have this insane level of socialism.
    The most popular government programs in the USA are socialist - Medicare and Social Security.
    These both regularly poll at over 80% approval.
    If Regressive Republicans succeed in privatizing or otherwise screwing up those programs it will be huge mistake for one thing and real world catastrophic for all Americans.

    Sorry to hear you are convinced Brazil is a hell hole. All countries can have different issues, and individuals within them have their own special problems too. Socialism, capitalism, or any other ism isn't inherently good or bad - it's how your country uses it.

    The right wing government in the USA is very anti-immigrant at the moment. You are better off trying to immigrate elsewhere.

    The President mentioned Hispanics during his recent rally and his supporters voiced their disapproval loudly. Being from Brazil, that's the welcome you'd get from a lot of right wingers here in America because they are anti-"other" meaning that they are against anyone who is not a white Christian English speaking American from the flyover states.

    https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a20100961/white-house-correspondents-dinner-trump-rally/
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @smeagolheart "they are against anyone who is not a white "Christian" English speaking American"

    Fixed that for you.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited May 2018
    ThacoBell said:

    @smeagolheart "they are against anyone who is not a white "Christian" English speaking American"

    Fixed that for you.

    And even if you check all those boxes and then you mentioned you are from California or New York they'd be against you.

    They must not realize they are following one of those coastal elites - a celebrity reality TV billionaire from New York.

    A hilarious example of this disturbing anti immigrant fervor in some (most?) of these guys is that time where armed Trump supporters stopped and demanded to know if a Native American legislator was in the country illegally.

    https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2018/02/02/trump-supporter-illegal-immigration-native-american-legal-arizona-snopes/302350002/
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903

    Balrog99 said:

    My cousin tried to study medicine but thanks to affirmative actions created to protect the non white majority from the white minority here, she will not study medicine. If she had the right to affirmative action, her score will be sufficient. Thanks left. Until i leave this socialist hellhole, i will avoid have child. Nobody deserves live in this socialist hellhole with strict gun control, high taxes, almost no propriety rights, no right to self defense, centralized government and no freedom.

    What country are you living in?
    Unfortunately Southern part of Brazil but i wanna live at least in Chile, Uruguay or Argentina. They are not good as USA, but at least they don't have this insane level of socialism.
    The most popular government programs in the USA are socialist - Medicare and Social Security.
    These both regularly poll at over 80% approval.
    It's worth pointing out that socialism in Brazil is very different from socialism in the United States. @SorcererV1ct0r's grievances with socialism have little or nothing to do with Medicare or Social Security.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited May 2018

    Balrog99 said:

    My cousin tried to study medicine but thanks to affirmative actions created to protect the non white majority from the white minority here, she will not study medicine. If she had the right to affirmative action, her score will be sufficient. Thanks left. Until i leave this socialist hellhole, i will avoid have child. Nobody deserves live in this socialist hellhole with strict gun control, high taxes, almost no propriety rights, no right to self defense, centralized government and no freedom.

    What country are you living in?
    Unfortunately Southern part of Brazil but i wanna live at least in Chile, Uruguay or Argentina. They are not good as USA, but at least they don't have this insane level of socialism.
    The most popular government programs in the USA are socialist - Medicare and Social Security.
    These both regularly poll at over 80% approval.
    It's worth pointing out that socialism in Brazil is very different from socialism in the United States. @SorcererV1ct0r's grievances with socialism have little or nothing to do with Medicare or Social Security.
    And that's the rub. Vick wrote how he was desperate to leave a "socialist hell hole". The implication being socialism leads to hell holes which is not true no more than capitalism leads to heaven holes or whatever the opposite of a hell hole is.

    In the USA the most popular government programs are socialist - Medicare and Social Security. Mileage may vary in other countries.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @smeagolheart "heaven holes or whatever the opposite of a hell hole is."

    A majestic mount? A holy hill? A beauteous butte?
This discussion has been closed.