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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    Paradise protuberance. Elysium elevation. Nirvana nunatak.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    City on a hill.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    I am so proud of this thread.
  • JoenSoJoenSo Member Posts: 910
    I usually don't read this thread right before going to bed to avoid giving my brain too much to think about. But these last posts were strangely soothing.
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    edited May 2018

    Balrog99 said:

    My cousin tried to study medicine but thanks to affirmative actions created to protect the non white majority from the white minority here, she will not study medicine. If she had the right to affirmative action, her score will be sufficient. Thanks left. Until i leave this socialist hellhole, i will avoid have child. Nobody deserves live in this socialist hellhole with strict gun control, high taxes, almost no propriety rights, no right to self defense, centralized government and no freedom.

    What country are you living in?
    Unfortunately Southern part of Brazil but i wanna live at least in Chile, Uruguay or Argentina. They are not good as USA, but at least they don't have this insane level of socialism.
    The most popular government programs in the USA are socialist - Medicare and Social Security.
    These both regularly poll at over 80% approval.
    If Regressive Republicans succeed in privatizing or otherwise screwing up those programs it will be huge mistake for one thing and real world catastrophic for all Americans.

    Sorry to hear you are convinced Brazil is a hell hole. All countries can have different issues, and individuals within them have their own special problems too. Socialism, capitalism, or any other ism isn't inherently good or bad - it's how your country uses it.

    The right wing government in the USA is very anti-immigrant at the moment. You are better off trying to immigrate elsewhere.

    The President mentioned Hispanics during his recent rally and his supporters voiced their disapproval loudly. Being from Brazil, that's the welcome you'd get from a lot of right wingers here in America because they are anti-"other" meaning that they are against anyone who is not a white Christian English speaking American from the flyover states.

    https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a20100961/white-house-correspondents-dinner-trump-rally/
    Is more easy for the government to implement a "voucher" than try make a public healthcare. That is a fact. The government can't do anything efficiently.

    About "hispanic", i an not hispanic and "hispanic" is not a race. For some Americans, the members of Portuguese Royal family(House of Braganza) born in Europe are racially different than those who was born in "new world" In fact only USA consider "hispanic" as a race. No other country in world do that. Most mexicans declare to be most of mixed race origin. For some Americans Queen Maxima with a Argentine passport will be considered "hispanic", but with a Dutch passport, white. Here is a photo of her family. Everyone is blonde in her family.



    In fact the unique """"hispanic/latino"""" in WW2 flying ACE list ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_flying_aces ) who received a Iron Cross was Egon Albrecht Lemke. Born in Curitiba - Brazil and fought for Germany. His story



    "Egon Albrecht was born on 19 May 1918 at Curitiba in Brazil. In 1940, Albrecht was serving with 6./ZG 1 operating Bf 110 Zerstörer twin-engine fighters. On 26 June, 6./ZG 1 was redesignated 9./ZG 76. In turn, 9./ZG 76 was redesignated 6./SKG 210 on 24 April 1941. With 6./SKG 210, Albrecht flew combat over Russia. On 4 January 1942, 6./SKG 210 was redesignated 6./ZG 1. Albrecht was appointed Staffelkapitän of 1./ZG 1 on 12 June 1942. Oberleutnant Albrecht was awarded the Ritterkreuz on 25 May 1943 for 15 aerial victories plus 11 aircraft, 162 motor vehicles, 254 covered vehicles, 3 locomotives, 8 Flak positions, 12 anti-tank gun positions and 8 infantry positions destroyed on the ground. On 9 October 1943, Hauptmann Albrecht succeeded Hauptmann Karl-Heinrich Matern (12 victories, RK, killed in action 8 October 1943) as Gruppenkommandeur of II./ZG 1. In October 1943, II./ZG 1 was relocated to the Western front based on the Atlantic coast of France flying missions over the Bay of Biscay. In October 1943, the Gruppe was transferred to Wels in Austria to combat the incursions from the south of the Italian-based USAAF 15th Air Force. In July 1944, II./ZG 1 returned to Germany for conversion on to the Bf 109 single-engined fighter and redesignation as III./JG 76. Albrecht then led the Gruppe to the Invasion front. On 25 August 1944, Albrecht was forced to break-off a mission because of engine problems. Returning to his base he was intercepted by USAAF P-51 fighters. In the subsequent action, Albrecht was shot down in Bf 109 G-14 (W.Nr. 460 593) “Black 21” over St Claude near Creil. Albrecht managed to bale out of his stricken aircraft but was dead when found on the ground. " source : http://luftwaffe.cz/albrecht.html


    I don't have non white ancestors(at least don't know a non white ancestor), i was born blonde(but my hair is no longer blonde) , my skin burns on sun instead of tan. Photo bellow. If some american will gonna think that geography or language can affect race, i don't care. Nobody will look to me and think "he is not white" About immigration, Trump is against illegal immigration, not legal immigration. Immigration is a privilege, not a right. If i can't go legally to USA, then i will try move to another country like Portugal, since i have Portuguese ancestry and Portuguese is my native language, will be not hard for me to live in Portugal. Will not be good as USA, but will be better than my home country. To live in USA i need to improve my English, mainly the strong accent and my grammar.





    Slavery ended here exactly due the will of a Blonde, Blue Eyed princess and now the white minority is blamed by slavery and by it reason, the left demands affirmative action to protect the majority from minority.

    Balrog99 said:

    My cousin tried to study medicine but thanks to affirmative actions created to protect the non white majority from the white minority here, she will not study medicine. If she had the right to affirmative action, her score will be sufficient. Thanks left. Until i leave this socialist hellhole, i will avoid have child. Nobody deserves live in this socialist hellhole with strict gun control, high taxes, almost no propriety rights, no right to self defense, centralized government and no freedom.

    What country are you living in?
    Unfortunately Southern part of Brazil but i wanna live at least in Chile, Uruguay or Argentina. They are not good as USA, but at least they don't have this insane level of socialism.
    The most popular government programs in the USA are socialist - Medicare and Social Security.
    These both regularly poll at over 80% approval.
    It's worth pointing out that socialism in Brazil is very different from socialism in the United States. @SorcererV1ct0r's grievances with socialism have little or nothing to do with Medicare or Social Security.
    And that's the rub. Vick wrote how he was desperate to leave a "socialist hell hole". The implication being socialism leads to hell holes which is not true no more than capitalism leads to heaven holes or whatever the opposite of a hell hole is.

    In the USA the most popular government programs are socialist - Medicare and Social Security. Mileage may vary in other countries.
    Venezuelans are mass illegally immigrating to Brazil. They rather be illegal immigrants in the poorest state(Roraima) of a poor "semi socialist" country than live in a fully socialist system. Cuba, Venezuela, A lot of Eastern European countries, USSR, socialism always will fail.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    All of Scandinavia would refute that claim, as those countries are CONSISTENTLY ranked as having the happiest populaces on Earth.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    Trump's administration has proposed deep cuts to legal immigration.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited May 2018


    Two months later two of the three lawyers Trump mentioned are gone. He should admit he was lying.

    He should admit that it is a Winning New York Times and he's a Failing President.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963


    Is more easy for the government to implement a "voucher" than try make a public healthcare. That is a fact. The government can't do anything efficiently.

    It's easy for private healthcare to raise prices to whatever the rich can pay. In the US, for-profit healthcare is a huge mess. We pay more than anyone and get less. That is an actual fact.

    http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/press-releases/2015/oct/us-spends-more-on-health-care-than-other-nations

    http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-healthcare-comparison-20170715-htmlstory.html


    About "hispanic", i an not hispanic and "hispanic" is not a race. ..

    Tell that to the American President and his supporters.


  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176

    All of Scandinavia would refute that claim, as those countries are CONSISTENTLY ranked as having the happiest populaces on Earth.

    Sweden use voucher system on education. Also, please. Read this article

    "All told, the recession became Sweden's deepest by far since the Great Depression, with GDP in 1993 being 5% lower than in 1990, with employment falling more than 10%, and the budget deficit rising to more than 10% of GDP. By then Sweden had fallen to between 15th and 20th place in international income comparisons, a decline from which it has never
    since recovered."
    https://mises.org/library/sweden-myth

    It's easy for private healthcare to raise prices to whatever the rich can pay. In the US, for-profit healthcare is a huge mess. We pay more than anyone and get less. That is an actual fact.

    The price is high exactly due corporativism and excessive regulations

    Tell that to the American President and his supporters.

    The fact that some Americans thinks that if two Germans have a son in Argentina he will be not white, but if the same couple have a second son in Falklands(British territory), then they will have a white child doesn't means that all trump supporters believe on it.

    Also, Trump won on Florida and thanks to that Obama ended the Cuban refugee program.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,324
    I was pleased to see the way the 'Starbucks two' resolved their case against Philadelphia. That recognizes that, once they were called, the police were in a difficult situation and also aims to create a positive outcome from the incident. Just like with customer complaints it's always worth being reminded that potential flashpoints can create opportunities as well as threats.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited May 2018
    Front page:

    CNN: Trump reimbursed Cohen's $130K to porn star, Giuliani says
    Washington Post: Giuliani: Trump repaid attorney Cohen for Stormy Daniels settlement
    NBCNews: Trump reimbursed Michael Cohen's $130000 payment to Stormy Daniels, Giuliani says
    HuffPost : Giuliani Says Trump Repaid Lawyer For $130000 Payment To Stormy Daniels
    USA TODAY: Rudy Giuliani says Trump paid Michael Cohen back for $130,000 given to Stormy Daniels
    Wall Street Journal: Giuliani Says Trump Repaid Cohen for Stormy Daniels Payment


    and fake news fox news, no mention of the payment to the porn star by the president:
    image


    Either Trump was lying (again) or Guiliani is lying now or Cohen is lying. Maybe they are all lying.

    Trump has repeatedly denied making the payment and referred questions to Cohen.

    In a statement in February Cohen said "In a private transaction in 2016, I used my own personal funds to facilitate a payment of $130,000 to Ms. Stephanie Clifford," Cohen said. "Neither the Trump Organization nor the Trump campaign was a party to the transaction with Ms. Clifford, and neither reimbursed me for the payment, either directly or indirectly."

    Today Guliani goes on State TV and says Trump paid back Cohen some how using various like methods. Guiliani is lying now. Maybe they are all lying. What do I mean maybe.

  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,324
    It wouldn't actually surprise me at all if Giuliani is either lying or mistaken about the payment. I suspect the reason for changing the story so radically now is that Trump finally realized this payment would be classed as a campaign finance violation. It's certainly possible that it's true that Trump repaid the funds personally (which would give him a good defence to the campaign finance charge), but it's also possible that they were repaid through either company or direct campaign funds.

    On the face of it of course it would seem incredibly stupid at this stage to lie again about the source of the funds as it's unlikely that any cover story set up now would be good enough to convince investigators. However, Trump's past record of lying about things without regard to the transparency of his story means I think it's entirely conceivable that this is indeed yet another lie in the Stormy saga.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited May 2018
    I'm not even going to dive deep into last night and this morning's revelations. I'll only continue to offer the opinion that Trump, Giuliani and the rest of these clowns are far too stupid to get away with any of this. This is the legal defense equivalent of a bunch of clowns getting out of a car and hitting each other over the head with rubber mallets.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,324
    Giuliani has provided some further detail about the payment. He now says that the $130,000 was repaid by monthly payments of $35,000, totalling about $460,000 including expenses (this opens another can of worms as the original 'loan' by Cohen and repayments by Trump have not been included on Trump's financial disclosure forms).

    I said earlier I thought it was possible that Trump had repaid the funds personally, but in the light of this further information I now think the chances that really happened are negligible. It looks pretty certain to me that Trump has just identified payments made to Cohen that are not clearly in respect of something else specific and said they relate to the $130,000. I wouldn't be at all surprised if freshly printed invoices or receipts suddenly appear in support of this story. I would, however, be extremely surprised if investigators accepted it ...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited May 2018
    Grond0 said:

    Giuliani has provided some further detail about the payment. He now says that the $130,000 was repaid by monthly payments of $35,000, totalling about $460,000 including expenses (this opens another can of worms as the original 'loan' by Cohen and repayments by Trump have not been included on Trump's financial disclosure forms).

    I said earlier I thought it was possible that Trump had repaid the funds personally, but in the light of this further information I now think the chances that really happened are negligible. It looks pretty certain to me that Trump has just identified payments made to Cohen that are not clearly in respect of something else specific and said they relate to the $130,000. I wouldn't be at all surprised if freshly printed invoices or receipts suddenly appear in support of this story. I would, however, be extremely surprised if investigators accepted it ...

    Giuliani basically admitted the payment was campaign-related, since he SPECIFICALLY mentioned Hillary Clinton and the month of October. What a shitshow. Trump's own lawyer, on television, admitted part of the calculation was not wanting the issue brought up at the Oct. 5th debate. Again, Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men". Since they think they are above the law, they brag about breaking it in plain sight. This also now brings up the issue of whether Cohen or Trump lied to the judge in the hearing about the evidence seized from Cohen's office.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited May 2018
    Here's what happened I can say with certainty. I mean I wasn't there so I don't know with 100% certainty but here goes...

    Trump told Cohen to pay of the porn star he banged for months starting a couple months after his son Barron was born. Cohen set up his elaborate shell companies and paid Daniels with some extra cash he had and made her sign the NDA. At this point Trump and Cohen expected Cohen to be repaid by campaign funds. Why? Because Trump likes to spend other people's money not his own and he's cheap and he thinks he can do whatever he wants without anyone figuring things out. Did that happen? No. So Cohen was stuck with the bill before he could be reimbursed.

    So when Trump was asked he could say "no I didn't pay for sex with the porn star". He hadn't planned on paying personally anyway he was going to use his campaign funds for that, to him its basically his personal slush fund. And Cohen was telling the truth that he did not get Trumps or a Trump campaigns funds (yet) to pay for the silence of the sex worker.

    Now Guiliani comes along and realizes what happened was illegal. So he made up this story that a different 400k that was paid to Cohen, why that was the Stormy Daniels money. Why do this? Because as the candidate Trump can pay whatever amount he wants into his own campaign while others (such as cohen) are limited and the $130k amount by Cohen is way over the limit. But if the money came from Trump it would be OK legally speaking. So this is Giuliani changing the story after the fact to try and get away with crime.
    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    If Cohen accepted legal fees in a known arrangement as repayment for the Stormy Daniels hush money, that, in and of itself, is not legal.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    Now that Rudy is in charge of the Ms. Clifford narrative, there is no way that anyone is going to be able to pin anything on Trump or Trump Campaign officials for this. The story that the money came from a retainer paid to Cohen may not be completely believable (if it were the truth then that is what would have been stated when the story first broke) but it is definitely *plausible*, and plausibility is all that is needed.

    Meanwhile, Republicans in the House are increasing their pressure on Rosenstein to turn over any and all documents about the Mueller Investigation; this pressure even includes vague hints of impeachment. Clearly, Rosenstein isn't going to comply with their requests because he knows the first thing they will do is turn over all the documents to Trump; however, the pressure is going to get only worse as November elections approach. They *must* have those documents by then because it is unlikely that the new Congress next January will be interested in pressuring Rosenstein about anything.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Oklahoma legislature passed a law in the middle of the night allowing anyone over 21 to carry a gun without any license or permit or anything. The law goes to the governor to sign. They call this law Constitutional Carry.

    It sure as hell does not sound like they are referring to the 2nd amendment because there sure as hell is no well regulated militia going on there.

    I thought regressive Republicans said the problem with mass shootings was not the guns, but mental illness. Here they are taking away the process that might stop giving guns to people with mental problems. Supposedly 89% of people in Oklahoma support background checks. Republicans are so in the pocket of the NRA that they don't care. Vote them out. Vote them the hell out.

    They got nothing for you, it's all for their donors and ultra wealthy people. They are coming for your Healthcare next. Oklahoma also passed a work requirement for Sooner are the low income health insurance program. Poor, sick? Lost your job? Fuck you. - GOP
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    Now that Rudy is in charge of the Ms. Clifford narrative, there is no way that anyone is going to be able to pin anything on Trump or Trump Campaign officials for this. The story that the money came from a retainer paid to Cohen may not be completely believable (if it were the truth then that is what would have been stated when the story first broke) but it is definitely *plausible*, and plausibility is all that is needed.

    Meanwhile, Republicans in the House are increasing their pressure on Rosenstein to turn over any and all documents about the Mueller Investigation; this pressure even includes vague hints of impeachment. Clearly, Rosenstein isn't going to comply with their requests because he knows the first thing they will do is turn over all the documents to Trump; however, the pressure is going to get only worse as November elections approach. They *must* have those documents by then because it is unlikely that the new Congress next January will be interested in pressuring Rosenstein about anything.

    Every lawyer I've heard comment on Giuliani has been shocked at how disastrous his media appearances have been from a legal perspective.

    And the hits keep on coming....Michael Cohen's phone was tapped, and at least one of the calls was to the White House. Was the raid on his office conducted because investigators heard he was going to destroy documents??
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    Now that Rudy is in charge of the Ms. Clifford narrative, there is no way that anyone is going to be able to pin anything on Trump or Trump Campaign officials for this. The story that the money came from a retainer paid to Cohen may not be completely believable (if it were the truth then that is what would have been stated when the story first broke) but it is definitely *plausible*, and plausibility is all that is needed

    Except, if after the raid on the office, the prosecutors have an invoice from the Trump campaign. If they can’t explain what that invoice is for then it doesn’t matter what tales they spin.

    What Trimp’s legal team is attempting to do is get ahead of those documents being handed over to lawyers handling the case. The judge has already assigned a person both teams agreed to, to go through the documents and remove anything that’d fall in with client/lawyer privilege.

    They’re hoping to tell a plauisble story now and come up with spin on anything damaging when it does get released.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    One thing I've always wondered about: if you had any incriminating documents stored anywhere, wouldn't you immediately destroy them the moment you detected any suspicion from the authorities? If you have weeks of advance notice, you'd ostensibly be able to delve into your own records and clean house before the authorities had a chance to find anything.

    The only incriminating files that the authorities would be able to find would be those that weren't in your own physical possession, or in the possession of someone who would be willing to find and destroy them for you.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037

    It sure as hell does not sound like they are referring to the 2nd amendment because there sure as hell is no well regulated militia going on there.

    The phrase "well regulated militia" is merely 18-Centuryspeak for "private citizens".

    Background checks cannot check for mental health issues without a significant rewrite of HIPAA. If you (not you, personally, but the generic "you") live in Oklahoma and you don't like the laws, then yes--work towards voting the bums out. If you do not live in Oklahoma and you don't like the laws there then I am afraid you will just have to get over it. Besides, the ink on Governor Fallin's signature won't be dry before the lawsuits and injunctions trying to prevent the law from taking effect occur--it will be tied up in court for months.

    And the hits keep on coming....Michael Cohen's phone was tapped, and at least one of the calls was to the White House. Was the raid on his office conducted because investigators heard he was going to destroy documents??

    Wild speculation is wild. It is possible that document destruction was discussed, but certainly they wouldn't have done that on an open phone line, would they? That being said, Trump's use of his personal--and thus not encrypted--cell phone has dramatically increased over the last month or two.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963

    It sure as hell does not sound like they are referring to the 2nd amendment because there sure as hell is no well regulated militia going on there.

    The phrase "well regulated militia" is merely 18-Centuryspeak for "private citizens".

    Background checks cannot check for mental health issues without a significant rewrite of HIPAA. If you (not you, personally, but the generic "you") live in Oklahoma and you don't like the laws, then yes--work towards voting the bums out. If you do not live in Oklahoma and you don't like the laws there then I am afraid you will just have to get over it. Besides, the ink on Governor Fallin's signature won't be dry before the lawsuits and injunctions trying to prevent the law from taking effect occur--it will be tied up in court for months.

    And the hits keep on coming....Michael Cohen's phone was tapped, and at least one of the calls was to the White House. Was the raid on his office conducted because investigators heard he was going to destroy documents??

    Wild speculation is wild. It is possible that document destruction was discussed, but certainly they wouldn't have done that on an open phone line, would they? That being said, Trump's use of his personal--and thus not encrypted--cell phone has dramatically increased over the last month or two.
    Disagree that well regulated militia means anybody. If it does then people are saying the law is outdated (clearly since they have muskets we have machine guns). There are other examples of militia mentioned in the Constitution and a quick Google search reveals

    "The delegates of the Constitutional Convention (the founding fathers/framers of the United States Constitution) under Article 1; section 8, clauses 15 and 16 of the federal constitution, granted Congress the power to "provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia".

    "If you do not live in Oklahoma and you don't like the laws there then I am afraid you will just have to get over it." this is how it should be be unfortunately oaklahoma does not exist on an island. It is surrounded by other states. Also the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act which Congress just recently passed by the House says whatever allowance is made in one state effects the rest.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/365543-gun-owners-and-republicans-dont-really-want-concealed-carry
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137

    The phrase "well regulated militia" is merely 18-Centuryspeak for "private citizens".

    I've never seen anyone try to claim this. Do you have a source? I thought the main pro-gun response to that phrase was basically to say that it's an irrelevant aside.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    edited May 2018

    "If you do not live in Oklahoma and you don't like the laws there then I am afraid you will just have to get over it." this is how it should be be unfortunately oaklahoma does not exist on an island. It is surrounded by other states. Also the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act which Congress just recently passed by the House says whatever allowance is made in one state effects the rest.

    I have never gone quite that far, myself. I supported the way in which homosexual marriages became legal in all States--once it became legal in one State the "full faith" clause kicked in, requiring other States to recognize the marriages in the same way that States recognize each other's drivers' licenses. The same logic should apply to carry permits--if I receive one in Texas it should be valid in Oregon. Oklahoma not requiring any sort of license or permit to carry a gun swings the pendulum a little too far, though. Despite the fact that I am typically a Libertarian in my views, I agree that if you want to carry a gun you really should have some sort of State license as well as certificates that you passed both a safety/maintenance course and a "practicum" course which covers the gun-related laws in your State.

    This discussion will be meaningless unless we can get confirmation about which piece of legislation proposes to allow people to carry guns without any permit. If we cannot find one then this particular piece of "news" may be dismissed as speculation.

    Incidentally, did you know that the City of Dallas--a bastion of Democrats at both the State and National level--is giving the NRA a free ride at the convention center? The cost to the NRA of renting the facility would normally have been over $400k but almost all that fee was covered by the city under a special "public improvement district" in the city budget which came from hotel revenues.
    joluv said:

    The phrase "well regulated militia" is merely 18-Centuryspeak for "private citizens".

    I've never seen anyone try to claim this. Do you have a source? I thought the main pro-gun response to that phrase was basically to say that it's an irrelevant aside.
    I don't need a source to state an opinion.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    joluv said:

    The phrase "well regulated militia" is merely 18-Centuryspeak for "private citizens".

    I've never seen anyone try to claim this. Do you have a source? I thought the main pro-gun response to that phrase was basically to say that it's an irrelevant aside.
    I think @Mathsorcerer meant 'able-bodied male citizens between 18 and 42 years old', not all private citizens. There was a time when all citizens meeting those prerequisites were required to own a gun in case they needed to be called up for military duty. I guess the logic was that those folks would familiarize themselves with their weapon(s) and also save the government money by supplying their own.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Balrog99 said:

    joluv said:

    The phrase "well regulated militia" is merely 18-Centuryspeak for "private citizens".

    I've never seen anyone try to claim this. Do you have a source? I thought the main pro-gun response to that phrase was basically to say that it's an irrelevant aside.
    I think @Mathsorcerer meant 'able-bodied male citizens between 18 and 42 years old', not all private citizens. There was a time when all citizens meeting those prerequisites were required to own a gun in case they needed to be called up for military duty. I guess the logic was that those folks would familiarize themselves with their weapon(s) and also save the government money by supplying their own.
    And that is well and good in the time of the colonists and no standing army. But what are our militia of today doing? Are they augmenting the federal army and going out for defense of the nation as their civic duty like those old days? No. In those days they were well regulated, presumably general Washington called people in to practice their gun duties and told them to come back in 6 months or what not after looking them over.

    Today, there is no regulation at all. There should be something. You can't just gloss over a major section of the ammendment and say everything is good.

    ... in the same way that States recognize each other's drivers' licenses. The same logic should apply to carry permits--if I receive one in Texas it should be valid in Oregon. Oklahoma not requiring any sort of license or permit to carry a gun swings the pendulum a little too far, though. Despite the fact that I am typically a Libertarian in my views, I agree that if you want to carry a gun you really should have some sort of State license as well as certificates that you passed both a safety/maintenance course and a "practicum" course which covers the gun-related laws in your State.

    I'm good with that for majority of guns. Assault weapons are another matter.
This discussion has been closed.