Point being, what is clearly being done here is the oldest propaganda trick in the book.
Here's the oldest propaganda trick in the book, again:
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." - Hermann Göring
Another citizenship checkpoint on an major Interstate highway, this time in....New Hampshire. I'd like to point out two things. #1 is that technically, a driver's license is NOT a valid proof of citizenship. That would require something like a certified birth certificate. Anyone carrying that particular document around in their car with them?? #2 is that, in this Administration, like clockwork, every time someone thinks you are becoming too conspiracy-minded, or even if you yourself think you are becoming too conspiracy-minded, 48 hours can't even pass before you are reminded why your thoughts went there in the first place. Interstate checkpoints asking for papers (but likely only from non-white people) seem to me based on reporting the last few days to be becoming a regular tactic in New England:
Again, without the "within 100 miles of the border" provision, these would absolutely be ruled as unreasonable search and seizures (and before you ask, yes I think DUI checkpoints are problematic as well). As @Mathsorcerer pointed out, nearly 2/3 of the population of the country is subject to these at any time, and thus, we have essentially abolished the 4th Amendment without even putting up a fight for it. Just how much more power are we going to cede to an ever more emboldened and out of control law enforcement agencies?? Between the border patrol doing this, ICE raiding New York farms without a warrant, and the day to day examples we see of rampant police misconduct, and an Administration who actively encourages such draconian tactics, we are setting up a dangerous situation where citizens will have no recourse in the unlikely event of an actual national crisis. I'm not saying martial law is in our future, but I am saying that the pieces seem to be in place at all levels of government to shift to such a mode rapidly and efficiently if the will to do so from the top ever came down as a directive. We have given far too much power to on the ground law enforcement officers in this country. Far too much.
Assuming these numbers are 100% accurate, less overall crime tendencies but the crimes they were more likely to commit were things like *kidnapping*, kind of things we like to avoid.
So I guess less jaywalking and disorderly conduct and more human slavery and heroin smuggling is technically crime reducing.
But as always, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics. Wthout a clear and precise methodology, definitions of terms etc, these sorts of studies are very easy to skew any particular way. Most illegals are only illegal in name only, being overstayed on their work visa rather than the permanent illegal resident we assume is being counted in something like this and you could draw mostly from that group, you could draw from a heavily criminal U.S population to make findings appear better, etc.
Sometimes the media is a funny thing because I was thinking while I was reading it you could write a headline for a website with a different viewpoint entitled "illegal migrants more likely to kidnap, smuggle drugs, according to research" and it would be true and based on the same set of facts. Interpretation is certainly a thing.
Assuming these numbers are 100% accurate, less overall crime tendencies but the crimes they were more likely to commit were things like *kidnapping*, kind of things we like to avoid.
So I guess less jaywalking and disorderly conduct and more human slavery and heroin smuggling is technically crime reducing.
But as always, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics. Wthout a clear and precise methodology, definitions of terms etc, these sorts of studies are very easy to skew any particular way. Most illegals are only illegal in name only, being overstayed on their work visa rather than the permanent illegal resident we assume is being counted in something like this and you could draw mostly from that group, you could draw from a heavily criminal U.S population to make findings appear better, etc.
Sometimes the media is a funny thing because I was thinking while I was reading it you could write a headline for a website with a different viewpoint entitled "illegal migrants more likely to kidnap, smuggle drugs, according to research" and it would be true and based on the same set of facts. Interpretation is certainly a thing.
citation needed or you're just saying what you've been told - which seems to be false.
Fact is you're more likely to be killed by a vending machine than an illegal immigrant. Or your clothes. Or a wild animal.
Weaponizing victimhood in action: victims of terrorism or migrants are shrugged off as minor statistics in a bigger picture, unworthy of broader consideration. Illegal migrants risking their kids on a dangerous journey across the border, and seperated temporarily when the adults crime is discovered are relentlessly humanized to the fullest possible extent, viewing them as a minor insignificant statistic (they are) would be literally evil.
Weaponizing victimhood in action: victims of terrorism or migrants are shrugged off as minor statistics in a bigger picture, unworthy of broader consideration. Illegal migrants risking their kids on a dangerous journey across the border, and seperated temporarily when the adults crime is discovered are relentlessly humanized to the fullest possible extent, viewing them as a minor insignificant statistic (they are) would be literally evil.
Empathy sure is political nowadays.
Bro you are way more likely to be killed by bees. Does that mean you have to be afraid of bees? It would make more sense if you were be scared of bees. Hows that evil? Don't buy the hype and be irrational and scared.
Weaponizing victimhood in action: victims of terrorism or migrants are shrugged off as minor statistics in a bigger picture, unworthy of broader consideration. Illegal migrants risking their kids on a dangerous journey across the border, and seperated temporarily when the adults crime is discovered are relentlessly humanized to the fullest possible extent, viewing them as a minor insignificant statistic (they are) would be literally evil.
Empathy sure is political nowadays.
Victims of illegal migrants are not being shrugged off. The facts are that the illegal migrants are making everyone safer, not the reverse. Thus while any individual incident of course deserves sympathy, in terms of policy making it doesn't make sense to punish the illegal migrants unnecessarily. If the resources currently devoted to deterrence and punishment were instead devoted to identifying serious criminals the figures on crime associated with illegal migrants could be still further improved.
I do appreciate there can be genuine problems associated with immigration (both legal and illegal), particularly in relation to problems of distribution of resources at the local level. However, at the national level the evidence shows that immigration reduces crime and increases prosperity.
I've been reading through a major study of the impact of illegal migrants on violent crime this morning. The methodology used for that is high quality, with a wide range of potential distorting factors being accounted for. The study covers 1990-2014, thus avoiding the possibility of statistical blips over a short period. That period also covered big increases in the immigration rate, thus making it easier to see the impact of any correlations.
The following graphs show clear negative correlations between the extent of illegal migrants by state and the amount of serious violent crime (using the FBI definition of this).The last couple of paragraphs from the report include some conclusions as follows: "In reference to public policy, at the most basic level, our study calls into question one of the primary justifications for the immigration enforcement build‐up. Debates about the proper role of undocumented immigrants in U.S. society will no doubt continue, but they should do so in light of the available evidence. For this reason, any set of immigration policies moving forward should be crafted with the empirical understanding that undocumented immigration does not seem to have increased violent crime. This analysis also speaks to the unintended consequences of border enforcement. Although immigration enforcement may have “backfired” by increasing the population of undocumented immigrants (Massey, Pren, and Durand, 2016), this policy blunder has not come at the expense of public safety. This finding provides clarifying context for why the most ambitious policies aimed at removing “criminal aliens” have not yielded sizeable reductions in crime. For example, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement's Secure Communities (S‐Comm) Program was designed specifically as a crime‐fighting initiative to identify and deport criminal aliens through state and local collaboration with federal immigration authorities. Despite the fact that by 2013 S‐Comm was active in nearly every county and the deportation of aliens with criminal records increased substantially under the program, the results of comprehensive analyses revealed no impact of S‐Comm on violent crime (Miles and Cox, 2014; Treyger, Chalfin, and Loeffler, 2014). Our results help explain why; undocumented immigrants do not increase violence. It is for this reason that other policies specifically targeting unauthorized immigrants, such as Arizona's SB 1070 (2010) and Alabama's HB 56 (2011), are unlikely to deliver on their crime reduction promises.
Although ardent skeptics may remain unconvinced, the weight of the evidence presented here and in supporting work challenges claims that unauthorized immigration endangers the public. At a minimum, the results of our study call into question claims that undocumented immigration increases violent crime. If anything, the data suggest the opposite."
Ignoring this type of high quality data and instead parading out of context examples of individual crimes in order to justify 'gut-feeling' policies is indicative to me of poor government. The best that can possibly be said of the current administration in relation to this matter is that they are following the wishes of the majority of the party (not the country) that elected them. An alternative perspective would be that they are following personal goals, unrelated to what's best for the country, and providing lies and misleading information to try and convince a minority of the country to support them.
Weaponizing victimhood in action: victims of terrorism or migrants are shrugged off as minor statistics in a bigger picture, unworthy of broader consideration. Illegal migrants risking their kids on a dangerous journey across the border, and seperated temporarily when the adults crime is discovered are relentlessly humanized to the fullest possible extent, viewing them as a minor insignificant statistic (they are) would be literally evil.
Empathy sure is political nowadays.
The term "bleeding heart liberal" is as old as the hills, so I'm not sure nowadays is quite the apt phrase. The left has been accused of making empathy political as long as I've been aware of political arguments. A cursory glance at the sentiments on the other end of the spectrum will reveal that what is being weaponized is a total lack of empathy, or rather, the idea that empathy is a sign of weakness and is utterly unimportant. What exactly is your inside knowledge about why these parents are risking bringing their kids to the United States?? Why is the assumption that all of these people are terrible or unfit parents?? We have absolutely no idea how bad the situations they are leaving are. My guess is most of us on this forum would lose our minds if we had to spend one day living in poverty in Honduras, El Savador or Guatemala, which happen to be 3 of the most violent countries currently in the world. Why are these people, who are the vast majority who have been crossing the border in the last 6 weeks of this policy, being used as scapegoats for murders they had nothing to do with??
As for the "temporary" separation, that is the point. It isn't going to be temporary. Most of these parents have no idea where their children are, and there are no plans in place to get them back together, because no care was put into doing so in the first place. Even something as simple as a number system tying parents and children together as they moved through the system, as horrifying as that is in a historical context, would have allowed some tracking. These kids are being flown all across the country in the middle of the night on flights where Border Agents are lying to the flight attendants about why a bunch of kids are being put on a red-eye flight without parents. We are sending them to places as wide-ranging as New York, Virginia, Maryland and Michigan, to private facilities we know nothing about that have almost no oversight. Parents are being deported back to their home countries without their children. I can say without a shadow of a doubt based on what I've read about the separations that we had a better and more effective system of identifying cars with their owners when I worked in valet parking at a casino than this Administration has for making sure children are matched back up with their parents.
Want to go a step further?? I bet you anything a significant portion of these kids will never end up being reunited with their parents, and they will be funneled into some sort of Christian adoption service, just like we did to Native American children to "civilize" them in the past:
So, I mean, have no fear. We'll get rid of the "infestation" of their parents, and the ones we have essentially kidnapped will just be handed over to shelters or facilities being run for profit, and the lucky ones will be assigned a new, all-American mother and father, while the real ones spend the rest of their lives wondering what ever became of their child.
Want to go a step further?? I bet you anything a significant portion of these kids will never end up being reunited with their parents, and they will be funneled into some sort of Christian adoption service, just like we did to Native American children to "civilize" them in the past:
At least Trump has now told agencies to try and reunite families, which is a step forward from not trying. However, I agree with you that the lack of a process to do this means it's virtually certain that some families will never be reunited. This story gives a bit of background on the difficulties of matching parents and children.
Want to go a step further?? I bet you anything a significant portion of these kids will never end up being reunited with their parents, and they will be funneled into some sort of Christian adoption service, just like we did to Native American children to "civilize" them in the past:
At least Trump has now told agencies to try and reunite families, which is a step forward from not trying. However, I agree with you that the lack of a process to do this means it's virtually certain that some families will never be reunited. This story gives a bit of background on the difficulties of matching parents and children.
This article specifically talks about children separated BEFORE getting these numbers, which is something that should have never, ever happened. Again, to use the very simple analogy of a casino valet parking lot, when someone gave us the wrong number (from a previous visit) or simply didn't have one, the process could take up to an hour to resolve. In this situation we are talking about kids who may be anywhere in the country at this point. I mean, if you check your coat at a concert venue you are given a number to reclaim it. And apparently that DIDN'T happen in a large number of cases in regards to this policy. Something so basic that every sports bar in the country could handle it if necessary. It speaks to the total incompetence of this Administration, once again deciding to reverse long-term policy on a dime with no planning, and just expect things to just "happen". Because besides whatever sinister motivations you might want to level at them, it reveals something I talk about all the time, which is their absolute, unabashed laziness when it comes to the process of governing.
The fear of foreigners based on the numbers is not a rational feeling.
The irrational fear of foreigners is called xenophobia. It's possible a psychologist or psychiatrist might be able to help.
If you just hate foreigners despite the numbers, well, there's a different term for that.
Either way if you believe this irrational fearmongering , look in the mirror, you are being conned. You've bought the lie, duped by the oldest propaganda trick in the book - the powerful scapegoating the powerless to increase their own power. Overcome your irrational fear.
I don't think THAT many Americans have been killed by undocumented immigrants besides it sounds like "ok I'm doing shit but I think you're doing worse".
I'm just curious, did anyone actually say illegals commit more crime in general? As far as I can see this is a plain strawman, being beaten with vigor.
Victims of illegal migrants are not being shrugged off. The facts are that the illegal migrants are making everyone safer, not the reverse.
Illegal migrants are making everyone safer, man what a huge leap...I hate to repeat myself, but according to data presented in this thread:
"Of the 46 crimes for which we have arrest data, there were higher arrest rates for illegal immigrants relative to natives for the seven crimes of commercial sex, federal offenses, gambling, kidnapping, sexual assault, violations of Texas tax law, and vagrancy. "
So again, I guess if you don't mind more sexual assault and kidnapping, you could say you are safer. I think it is more accurate to say it is safer for *men* to be around illegals.
I'm just curious, did anyone actually say illegals commit more crime in general? As far as I can see this is a plain strawman, being beaten with vigor.
It's not a strawman if their response was to @SharGuidesMyHand's initial post yesterday discussing the MS-13 11 gang members that killed two Virginia teens. They've consistently provided evidence that shows homicides go down (not up) in the presence of immigrant communities.
They are making (some) generalizations and continuing the thought, but it's hardly like that was somehow answering a question no one had asked. It was just the evolution of their point.
I'm just curious, did anyone actually say illegals commit more crime in general? As far as I can see this is a plain strawman, being beaten with vigor.
It's not a strawman if their response was to your initial post yesterday discussing the MS-13 11 gang members that killed two Virginia teens. They've consistently provided evidence that shows homicides go down (not up) in the presence of immigrant communities.
They are making (some) generalizations and continuing the thought, but it's hardly like that was somehow answering a question no one had asked. It was just the evolution of their point.
Lol no. I said it (gang violence) sounds like a problem. That can not be misinterpreted without great pains to mean "illegals are commiting all the crimes".
And we haven't actually talked about gang violence at all, so what I actually said was replaced entirely with this strawman claim, if indeed they were a response to my response to that story.
Lol no. I said it (gang violence) sounds like a problem. That can not be misinterpreted without great pains to mean "illegals are commiting all the crimes".
I quickly edited my post to reflect it was Shar, not you who initiated the conversation. Sorry about that.
And we haven't actually talked about gang violence at all, so what I actually said was replaced entirely with this strawman claim, if indeed they were a response to my response to that story.
Illegal migrants are making everyone safer, man what a huge leap...I hate to repeat myself, but according to data presented in this thread:
"Of the 46 crimes for which we have arrest data, there were higher arrest rates for illegal immigrants relative to natives for the seven crimes of commercial sex, federal offenses, gambling, kidnapping, sexual assault, violations of Texas tax law, and vagrancy. "
So again, I guess if you don't mind more sexual assault and kidnapping, you could say you are safer. I think it is more accurate to say it is safer for *men* to be around illegals.
I'm pissed about the Texas tax law! Just kidding. Yes. You can and did cherry pick the numbers from a right wing organization. Do they mention that illegals commit a higher rate of crimes than Methodists on Tuesdays in June at 4 o'clock?
Don't be so afraid. Don't buy the propaganda.
Quit being used by the racist xenophobes who are fear mongering in order to take away your freedoms. A reichstag firetype incident is next along with the suspension of Democracy.
I'm wondering how the hell MS-13 got rolled into the illegal immigration debate anyway based on numbers I just pulled up (well, I know exactly why, but I digress).
In a May anti-gang operation, ICE arrested 1378 individuals. 933 of them were US citizens. A similar action in March arrested 1133, and 894 of them were citizens. Added together that is almost 75%.
Illegal migrants are making everyone safer, man what a huge leap...I hate to repeat myself, but according to data presented in this thread:
"Of the 46 crimes for which we have arrest data, there were higher arrest rates for illegal immigrants relative to natives for the seven crimes of commercial sex, federal offenses, gambling, kidnapping, sexual assault, violations of Texas tax law, and vagrancy. "
So again, I guess if you don't mind more sexual assault and kidnapping, you could say you are safer. I think it is more accurate to say it is safer for *men* to be around illegals.
I'm pissed about the Texas tax law! Just kidding. Yes. You can and did cherry pick the numbers from a right wing organization. Do they mention that illegals commit a higher rate of crimes than Methodists on Tuesdays in June at 4 o'clock?
Don't be so afraid. Don't buy the propaganda.
Quit being used by the racist xenophobes who are fear mongering in order to take away your freedoms. A reichstag firetype incident is next along with the suspension of Democracy.
This was data used by the Washington Post and, I believe, NPR to try to support the argument you are trying to make. I am pointing out what your own data says.
Also your constant repetition of "u are scared of illegals lol" is getting old. Kindly take your own prejudices elsewhere.
If you're trying to argue that gang members are gang members due to ethnicity, you have to do better than that.
My eyes rolled so far in the back of my head I caught a glimpse of my brain.
We've been talking the demographics of crime this whole time, apparantly with no issue until something against the narrative might be uncovered, then the whole topic has secret racist undertones.
Gang members seperate by ethnicity, at least, that much is very commonly true.
Illegal migrants are making everyone safer, man what a huge leap...I hate to repeat myself, but according to data presented in this thread:
"Of the 46 crimes for which we have arrest data, there were higher arrest rates for illegal immigrants relative to natives for the seven crimes of commercial sex, federal offenses, gambling, kidnapping, sexual assault, violations of Texas tax law, and vagrancy. "
So again, I guess if you don't mind more sexual assault and kidnapping, you could say you are safer. I think it is more accurate to say it is safer for *men* to be around illegals.
I'm pissed about the Texas tax law! Just kidding. Yes. You can and did cherry pick the numbers from a right wing organization. Do they mention that illegals commit a higher rate of crimes than Methodists on Tuesdays in June at 4 o'clock?
Don't be so afraid. Don't buy the propaganda.
Quit being used by the racist xenophobes who are fear mongering in order to take away your freedoms. A reichstag firetype incident is next along with the suspension of Democracy.
This was data used by the Washington Post and, I believe, NPR to try to support the argument you are trying to make. I am pointing out what your own data says.
Also your constant repetition of "u are scared of illegals lol" is getting old. Kindly take your own prejudices elsewhere.
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt - that you are scared. If you are just a racist and this is the reason for your irrational agreement with scapegoating immigrants, well that's honestly not better.
If that is the angle you want to go for, then own it. There is no rational reason to fearmonger immigrants - as has been shown repeatedly through various studies. So what is the angle for the President to do this?
If you're trying to argue that gang members are gang members due to ethnicity, you have to do better than that.
My eyes rolled so far in the back of my head I caught a glimpse of my brain.
We've been talking the demographics of crime this whole time, apparantly with no issue until something against the narrative might be uncovered, then the whole topic has secret racist undertones.
Gang members seperate by ethnicity, at least, that much is very commonly true.
Yes, people can be separated by ethnicity. Is there a point or argument you're trying to make, though?
Wait a minute, Sarah. How do you know this restaurant isn't just standing up for their "deeply held religious beliefs"?? Look what happens when this cat gets let out of the bag. Isn't that interesting. And look who immediately complains when it happens. I couldn't be happier this took place. This is the America those in favor of the Masterpiece Cake Shop owner wanted, so it's the America they get.
I'm wondering how the hell MS-13 got rolled into the illegal immigration debate anyway based on numbers I just pulled up (well, I know exactly why, but I digress).
In a May anti-gang operation, ICE arrested 1378 individuals. 933 of them were US citizens. A similar action in March arrested 1133, and 894 of them were citizens. Added together that is almost 75%.
A few points. 25% is over representation of illegals, not under, meaning they are more likely to engage in gang activity. I also don't think it's particularly accurate to use a single arrest as a representative sample of a whole especially when the other singular example had 90% as illegals.
But no matter which example you use, this supports my point.
@WarChiefZeke What is your take on the study that @Grond0 linked? If I understood it correctly, its findings seem to suggest that immigrants are less likely to commit violent crimes as well. Not just petty ones as you seem to suggest.
Comments
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." - Hermann Göring
http://thehill.com/homenews/393641-immigrants-arrested-at-border-control-checkpoint-along-new-hampshire-interstate
Again, without the "within 100 miles of the border" provision, these would absolutely be ruled as unreasonable search and seizures (and before you ask, yes I think DUI checkpoints are problematic as well). As @Mathsorcerer pointed out, nearly 2/3 of the population of the country is subject to these at any time, and thus, we have essentially abolished the 4th Amendment without even putting up a fight for it. Just how much more power are we going to cede to an ever more emboldened and out of control law enforcement agencies?? Between the border patrol doing this, ICE raiding New York farms without a warrant, and the day to day examples we see of rampant police misconduct, and an Administration who actively encourages such draconian tactics, we are setting up a dangerous situation where citizens will have no recourse in the unlikely event of an actual national crisis. I'm not saying martial law is in our future, but I am saying that the pieces seem to be in place at all levels of government to shift to such a mode rapidly and efficiently if the will to do so from the top ever came down as a directive. We have given far too much power to on the ground law enforcement officers in this country. Far too much.
So I guess less jaywalking and disorderly conduct and more human slavery and heroin smuggling is technically crime reducing.
But as always, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics. Wthout a clear and precise methodology, definitions of terms etc, these sorts of studies are very easy to skew any particular way. Most illegals are only illegal in name only, being overstayed on their work visa rather than the permanent illegal resident we assume is being counted in something like this and you could draw mostly from that group, you could draw from a heavily criminal U.S population to make findings appear better, etc.
Sometimes the media is a funny thing because I was thinking while I was reading it you could write a headline for a website with a different viewpoint entitled "illegal migrants more likely to kidnap, smuggle drugs, according to research" and it would be true and based on the same set of facts. Interpretation is certainly a thing.
Fact is you're more likely to be killed by a vending machine than an illegal immigrant. Or your clothes. Or a wild animal.
According to Nowrasteh's analysis, over the past 41 years (January 1975-December 2015), and including the 9/11 attacks:
- The chance an American would be killed by a foreign-born refugee terrorist is 1 in 3.64 billion per year, based on the last 41 years of data.
- The chance of an American being murdered by an undocumented immigrant terrorist is 1 in 10.9 billion per year.
- The chance an American could be killed by a terrorist on a typical tourist visa was 1 in 3.9 million.
- In the US, there hasn't been a single American killed by a terrorist from one of the seven countries included in the President's travel bans.
- There have been no terrorists from Syria in the US in this period.
He's lying to you.He's got you fooled. And scared. Of something you don't need to be scared about.
Empathy sure is political nowadays.
I do appreciate there can be genuine problems associated with immigration (both legal and illegal), particularly in relation to problems of distribution of resources at the local level. However, at the national level the evidence shows that immigration reduces crime and increases prosperity.
I've been reading through a major study of the impact of illegal migrants on violent crime this morning. The methodology used for that is high quality, with a wide range of potential distorting factors being accounted for. The study covers 1990-2014, thus avoiding the possibility of statistical blips over a short period. That period also covered big increases in the immigration rate, thus making it easier to see the impact of any correlations.
The following graphs show clear negative correlations between the extent of illegal migrants by state and the amount of serious violent crime (using the FBI definition of this).
"In reference to public policy, at the most basic level, our study calls into question one of the primary justifications for the immigration enforcement build‐up. Debates about the proper role of undocumented immigrants in U.S. society will no doubt continue, but they should do so in light of the available evidence. For this reason, any set of immigration policies moving forward should be crafted with the empirical understanding that undocumented immigration does not seem to have increased violent crime. This analysis also speaks to the unintended consequences of border enforcement. Although immigration enforcement may have “backfired” by increasing the population of undocumented immigrants (Massey, Pren, and Durand, 2016), this policy blunder has not come at the expense of public safety. This finding provides clarifying context for why the most ambitious policies aimed at removing “criminal aliens” have not yielded sizeable reductions in crime. For example, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement's Secure Communities (S‐Comm) Program was designed specifically as a crime‐fighting initiative to identify and deport criminal aliens through state and local collaboration with federal immigration authorities. Despite the fact that by 2013 S‐Comm was active in nearly every county and the deportation of aliens with criminal records increased substantially under the program, the results of comprehensive analyses revealed no impact of S‐Comm on violent crime (Miles and Cox, 2014; Treyger, Chalfin, and Loeffler, 2014). Our results help explain why; undocumented immigrants do not increase violence. It is for this reason that other policies specifically targeting unauthorized immigrants, such as Arizona's SB 1070 (2010) and Alabama's HB 56 (2011), are unlikely to deliver on their crime reduction promises.
Although ardent skeptics may remain unconvinced, the weight of the evidence presented here and in supporting work challenges claims that unauthorized immigration endangers the public. At a minimum, the results of our study call into question claims that undocumented immigration increases violent crime. If anything, the data suggest the opposite."
Ignoring this type of high quality data and instead parading out of context examples of individual crimes in order to justify 'gut-feeling' policies is indicative to me of poor government. The best that can possibly be said of the current administration in relation to this matter is that they are following the wishes of the majority of the party (not the country) that elected them. An alternative perspective would be that they are following personal goals, unrelated to what's best for the country, and providing lies and misleading information to try and convince a minority of the country to support them.
As for the "temporary" separation, that is the point. It isn't going to be temporary. Most of these parents have no idea where their children are, and there are no plans in place to get them back together, because no care was put into doing so in the first place. Even something as simple as a number system tying parents and children together as they moved through the system, as horrifying as that is in a historical context, would have allowed some tracking. These kids are being flown all across the country in the middle of the night on flights where Border Agents are lying to the flight attendants about why a bunch of kids are being put on a red-eye flight without parents. We are sending them to places as wide-ranging as New York, Virginia, Maryland and Michigan, to private facilities we know nothing about that have almost no oversight. Parents are being deported back to their home countries without their children. I can say without a shadow of a doubt based on what I've read about the separations that we had a better and more effective system of identifying cars with their owners when I worked in valet parking at a casino than this Administration has for making sure children are matched back up with their parents.
Want to go a step further?? I bet you anything a significant portion of these kids will never end up being reunited with their parents, and they will be funneled into some sort of Christian adoption service, just like we did to Native American children to "civilize" them in the past:
https://www.history.com/news/government-boarding-schools-separated-native-american-children-families
So, I mean, have no fear. We'll get rid of the "infestation" of their parents, and the ones we have essentially kidnapped will just be handed over to shelters or facilities being run for profit, and the lucky ones will be assigned a new, all-American mother and father, while the real ones spend the rest of their lives wondering what ever became of their child.
The irrational fear of foreigners is called xenophobia. It's possible a psychologist or psychiatrist might be able to help.
If you just hate foreigners despite the numbers, well, there's a different term for that.
Either way if you believe this irrational fearmongering , look in the mirror, you are being conned. You've bought the lie, duped by the oldest propaganda trick in the book - the powerful scapegoating the powerless to increase their own power. Overcome your irrational fear.
I don't think THAT many Americans have been killed by undocumented immigrants besides it sounds like "ok I'm doing shit but I think you're doing worse".
"Of the 46 crimes for which we have arrest data, there were higher arrest rates for illegal immigrants relative to natives for the seven crimes of commercial sex, federal offenses, gambling, kidnapping, sexual assault, violations of Texas tax law, and vagrancy. "
So again, I guess if you don't mind more sexual assault and kidnapping, you could say you are safer. I think it is more accurate to say it is safer for *men* to be around illegals.
https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/criminal-immigrants-texas-illegal-immigrant
They are making (some) generalizations and continuing the thought, but it's hardly like that was somehow answering a question no one had asked. It was just the evolution of their point.
And we haven't actually talked about gang violence at all, so what I actually said was replaced entirely with this strawman claim, if indeed they were a response to my response to that story.
I quickly edited my post to reflect it was Shar, not you who initiated the conversation. Sorry about that.
... still not a Strawman. See the Edit. See this post.
https://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/Survey-Analysis/Demographics
Don't be so afraid. Don't buy the propaganda.
Quit being used by the racist xenophobes who are fear mongering in order to take away your freedoms. A reichstag firetype incident is next along with the suspension of Democracy.
In a May anti-gang operation, ICE arrested 1378 individuals. 933 of them were US citizens. A similar action in March arrested 1133, and 894 of them were citizens. Added together that is almost 75%.
Also your constant repetition of "u are scared of illegals lol" is getting old. Kindly take your own prejudices elsewhere.
We've been talking the demographics of crime this whole time, apparantly with no issue until something against the narrative might be uncovered, then the whole topic has secret racist undertones.
Gang members seperate by ethnicity, at least, that much is very commonly true.
If that is the angle you want to go for, then own it. There is no rational reason to fearmonger immigrants - as has been shown repeatedly through various studies. So what is the angle for the President to do this?
Wait a minute, Sarah. How do you know this restaurant isn't just standing up for their "deeply held religious beliefs"?? Look what happens when this cat gets let out of the bag. Isn't that interesting. And look who immediately complains when it happens. I couldn't be happier this took place. This is the America those in favor of the Masterpiece Cake Shop owner wanted, so it's the America they get.
But no matter which example you use, this supports my point.