I want KITS in ID1, and 2.5 edition rules in ID2. To put it more simply still, i want an exact Baldur's Gate 2 ruleset implementation, in BOTH Icewind Dale EE games... This is my dream, my wish.
If they end up happening, I think it's very likely that they enhance them Baldur's Gate 2 style. Who would leave weapon styles behind after trying them? I would love this to happen too although I also like the feats from ID 2.
I want KITS in ID1, and 2.5 edition rules in ID2. To put it more simply still, i want an exact Baldur's Gate 2 ruleset implementation, in BOTH Icewind Dale EE games... This is my dream, my wish.
I doubt that will happen particularly in the case of IWD2. You'd have to change too many item files, creature files, etc to make it work for 2nd edition.
I want KITS in ID1, and 2.5 edition rules in ID2. To put it more simply still, i want an exact Baldur's Gate 2 ruleset implementation, in BOTH Icewind Dale EE games... This is my dream, my wish.
I doubt that will happen particularly in the case of IWD2. You'd have to change too many item files, creature files, etc to make it work for 2nd edition.
To say nothing of the unlikelihood of the license owners allowing such a massive change to the game, if the limitations of the EE contract are any indication.
I want KITS in ID1, and 2.5 edition rules in ID2. To put it more simply still, i want an exact Baldur's Gate 2 ruleset implementation, in BOTH Icewind Dale EE games... This is my dream, my wish.
I doubt that will happen particularly in the case of IWD2. You'd have to change too many item files, creature files, etc to make it work for 2nd edition.
To say nothing of the unlikelihood of the license owners allowing such a massive change to the game, if the limitations of the EE contract are any indication.
Well, they did change a lot in BG1 EE to adapt the game to the core of BG2 rules. You never know. I think it can happen if we are talking about ID1...ID2 on the other hand, probably not, but who knows. Also, Trent mentioned this in a tweet: "If we were to do Icewind Dale we would likely use our codebase, so all classes and kits in [Throne of Baal]." Maybe it is easier for them to work with their ToB codebase as the foundations of the game?
As a recap, I'd now be content with a few companions, possibly with an added prologue as an excuse to have enough NPC's in one place, or you could add them to the Palisade and just recruit them from around the other forces gathered there. Even have some of them have a little questy to get them to leave their current company and join yours.
The 3rd edition rule set works just fine. Under NO circumstances does it require an 'upgrade' to 4th. Let's just not touch the rules at all...
A few new items here and there, some new quests and tied up loose ends. Bug fixes and improved compatibility with modern OS and graphics/processors. That is the most important. Even if they didn't add to much new, just updated it to run on higher end graphics and processors so it ran smooth, no random crashes, no weird ass black boxes around everything. That would make me a happy man.
I mean, a ton of new NPC's and quests would be great, but in the end it just means more work, longer build times, more bugs, longer delays... If they just got it up and running and added NPC's later as DLC... that would work...
I mean, a ton of new NPC's and quests would be great, but in the end it just means more work, longer build times, more bugs, longer delays... If they just got it up and running and added NPC's later as DLC... that would work...
Just think the delays are only temporary, not really important. By the time the game gets bugfixed we will have the definitive edition of Icewind Dale just at it has happened with BG1 and BG2. I would rather include the companions in the core of the EE edition, but I guess it would be done one way or the other. Just imagine the new companions now, I am salivating...
Wait, isn't D&D Next theoretically D&D 5? I didn't look at it yet though, so I can't tell if it's good or bad.
Yes, they are supposed to be the same thing. For what little I have investigated, it's supposed to be a huge improvement but it's hard to tell without the book in your hands. It's seems they are on a good path since the design is being crowdsourced, meaning they are giving players the oportunity to playtest and give them back some feedback. This guy was a tester and has some interesting things to say about it:
"Again I felt like I was playing 2nd Edition with the best parts of 3/3.5 ed thrown in."
I want KITS in ID1, and 2.5 edition rules in ID2. To put it more simply still, i want an exact Baldur's Gate 2 ruleset implementation, in BOTH Icewind Dale EE games... This is my dream, my wish.
I doubt that will happen particularly in the case of IWD2. You'd have to change too many item files, creature files, etc to make it work for 2nd edition.
To say nothing of the unlikelihood of the license owners allowing such a massive change to the game, if the limitations of the EE contract are any indication.
Well, they did change a lot in BG1 EE to adapt the game to the core of BG2 rules. You never know. I think it can happen if we are talking about ID1...ID2 on the other hand, probably not, but who knows.
True enough, but, referring to IWD2 exclusively, changing the game engine and changing the D&D rule set itself are two entirely different things, and only the latter falls under Wizards' area of concern. I'd be shocked if they consented, and as @elminster noted, it would be a colossal undertaking regardless, both in terms of coding and rebalancing.
Words cannot describe how much I would want that change!!! BTW does IWD 1 use the same rules as IWD 2? I've only really played IWD2...
IWD1 uses a slightly simplified version of the BG1 rules (if I recall correctly). It has way more restrictions and far fewer kits than IWD2 has which uses simplified 3rd edition rules (or 3.5, I can't tell the difference since I only played Pathfinder in physical form).
I played IWD2 first as well, it's a huge step backwards, from a technical point of view.
While I like the idea of companions, the game is built for a whole party from the beginning. Adding in characters that you have to find seems like it could screw with the game balance. I think new characters are unnecessary.
Icewind Dale II is better than I because it's 3E. Subraces, various combinations, much more freedom with your party combinations.
Really, not everything needs to be a Baldur's Gate clone.
I actually love that Icewind Dale II is the only Infinity Engine game that is 3E. It combines my favorite engine and my favorite ruleset in one. (Well, 3.5E and Pathfinder are my favorite editions but that is close enough).
My current party in Icewind Dale II consists of an Aasimar Paladin, a Tiefling Rogue/Ranger, a Drow Wizard and a Wild Elf Druid. As well as the classic Dwarf Cleric and Human Sorcerer.
Really, not everything needs to be a Baldur's Gate clone.
BOOM! That. Right there. That's the heart of it. It's not Baldur's Gate. It's Icewind Dale. I think Icewind Dale one should be converted to 2's engine and ruleset then updated to run on modern systems without issues. That would be perfect! We have Baldur's Gate, we need Icewind Dale. Think of it more as Baldur's Gates child. Not a clone, similar but not identical!
If they really wanted to be adventurous here with either of the Icewind Dale games they could put Bryn Shander on the map. I don't recall it being in either game even though it is the largest city in Icewind Dale (although I could be wrong about it being in either of the games). As far as I know actions taken in it by its mayor against Isair and Madae set the stage for what happens in Icewind Dale 2, so including the city could serve as an interesting storytelling opportunity particularly in the case of Icewind Dale 2 (not to mention a place for more stores and new items).
Of course it could also serve as the starting city for...IWD3!
I want KITS in ID1, and 2.5 edition rules in ID2. To put it more simply still, i want an exact Baldur's Gate 2 ruleset implementation, in BOTH Icewind Dale EE games... This is my dream, my wish.
Kits in IWD1 I agree with, but IWD2's ruleset is overall superior and should not be switched even if it was feasible. Feats basically let you make your own, customized kits. Also, IWD2 has skill-based dialogue options, which BG2's ruleset has no way of replicating.
While I like the idea of companions, the game is built for a whole party from the beginning. Adding in characters that you have to find seems like it could screw with the game balance. I think new characters are unnecessary.
Don't want them, don't use them. The people who enjoy a non silent party will definitely use them. I think it was announced today that they will add a custom party of six. I would rather have five + my character but in any case, the details are vague. We don't know if the party will interact with each other and in story moments like in BG2 or not.
While I like the idea of companions, the game is built for a whole party from the beginning. Adding in characters that you have to find seems like it could screw with the game balance. I think new characters are unnecessary.
Don't want them, don't use them. The people who enjoy a non silent party will definitely use them. I think it was announced today that they will add a custom party of six. I would rather have five + my character but in any case, the details are vague. We don't know if the party will interact with each other and in story moments like in BG2 or not.
I never said "NO! You can't add more characters!", I just said I think it's unnecessary. For my first play-through, I can guarantee I won't use them. On one of my many re-plays of the game, I'm positive I'll use most of them if they exist.
I came into Baldur's Gate via the Exile/Avernum series, where you control a party of custom characters. In the original Exile series that meant 6 completely custom characters. In the revamped (kinda like "Enchanced Edition") Avernum series, you start with 4 custom characters, but you can replace all or some of them with NPCs found around the world that they added into the game. I think something like that would be quite nice for IWD:EE.
That said, I think there are merits for both NPC companions and custom characters. Yes custom characters are "silent", but I really enjoy the freedom to create my own characters, party dynamics and stories. When I played Avernum 3, I ended up hand-writing over 100 pages of notes to record significant interactions and events and ended up with a (very rough) "novelization" of my adventures. In fact discovering that I had to put up with pre-made companions initially put me off Baldur's Gate. That was, of course, before I got to know them.
So, there will be no NPCs in IWD:EE and I understand that the mentioned custom party of six won't have dialogs/words to make them look as NPCs.
I understand that party would consist of pre-generated characters so that people, unfamiliar with IWD or even IE games in general, could just start right away. Because creating a character needs time and effort, and creating a party needs even more time and effort (you have to think about balance and who will be useful and how can you do it if you don't know what this game is about).
Speaking of IWD2, did it ever receive an Unfinished Business mod like IWD1 and the BG games? The closest thing I recall was Weidu's mod which restored a bunch of forgotten items in the first chapter.
And to think that I would have really loved to have some npcs to join my journey
Just headcanon it like BG's NPCs, who barely said anything, either. Come up with a whole troupe of interesting weirdos and imagine how they would react to the situations happening in-game.
I was just talking about one of my IWD2 characters in another thread, a tiefling Barbarian who, outside of a combat or hostile social situation, is totally lazy and just does not care. His gal-pal, a disciplined and professional fire genasi (well, a tiefling RP'd as a fire-genasi) Fighter, would be in the background with him, occasionally smacking him to make him pay attention, but invariably getting flustered when he starts paying attention to /her/, lewdly so.
I didn't need Black Isle's to give me NPCs who did that. I invested that into the game myself. And, as it turns out, I have only ever completed IWD2 with the party that included those two.
Thanks a lot for bringing up that twitter, it really makes things crystal clear. It's a shame (for me) because I've already played the game once with a silent party. The idea of going back with another silent party is not very appealing to me but I would have seriously preordered a game with quality companions like Neera or Dorn.
I can see their point about NPCs not being what the game is about, but honestly I'd say the level of work involved would be the primary reason for no NPCs. At the barest minimum they would have had to create five characters, each with their own storylines and scripts to make comments during the course of the adventure, not to mention inter party banter and possible romances. To avoid at least some of the "there's not enough choice!" complaints ten would be a better number. That's a dragon's belly full of work to add on to bug fixing and rebalancing with the new BG2EE elements.
Thanks a lot for bringing up that twitter, it really makes things crystal clear. It's a shame (for me) because I've already played the game once with a silent party. The idea of going back with another silent party is not very appealing to me but I would have seriously preordered a game with quality companions like Neera or Dorn.
Your Silent Party 2.0 can have a half-orc Barbarian, a Dwarven Defender, and a freakin' Wild Mage. I think that's worth making a second run.
That was my first thought too and probably, like you said, the main reason why it wasn't done. I wouldn't even mind having the companions as DLC in the future but the odds are not very welcoming. Like I said, a shame, since I like Beamdogs writing.
Not for me, it isn't. Look, I respect that for a lot of people these new classes posibilities are very appealing but for me they are just a "nice" extra. What I was really looking forward was the kind of party interaction that made BG2's journey really memorable (for me).
We are planning five NPCs, all of whom will be required to be in the party and can't be kicked out, and four of them will be single-class thieves. The fifth is a wizard slayer.
Comments
The 3rd edition rule set works just fine. Under NO circumstances does it require an 'upgrade' to 4th. Let's just not touch the rules at all...
A few new items here and there, some new quests and tied up loose ends. Bug fixes and improved compatibility with modern OS and graphics/processors. That is the most important. Even if they didn't add to much new, just updated it to run on higher end graphics and processors so it ran smooth, no random crashes, no weird ass black boxes around everything. That would make me a happy man.
I mean, a ton of new NPC's and quests would be great, but in the end it just means more work, longer build times, more bugs, longer delays... If they just got it up and running and added NPC's later as DLC... that would work...
I didn't look at it yet though, so I can't tell if it's good or bad.
"Again I felt like I was playing 2nd Edition with the best parts of 3/3.5 ed thrown in."
There you go:
http://www.vividscribe.com/rpg-game-review-dungeons-and-dragons-5th-edition-beta/
It has way more restrictions and far fewer kits than IWD2 has which uses simplified 3rd edition rules (or 3.5, I can't tell the difference since I only played Pathfinder in physical form).
I played IWD2 first as well, it's a huge step backwards, from a technical point of view.
Subraces, various combinations, much more freedom with your party combinations.
Really, not everything needs to be a Baldur's Gate clone.
I actually love that Icewind Dale II is the only Infinity Engine game that is 3E.
It combines my favorite engine and my favorite ruleset in one. (Well, 3.5E and Pathfinder are my favorite editions but that is close enough).
My current party in Icewind Dale II consists of an Aasimar Paladin, a Tiefling Rogue/Ranger, a Drow Wizard and a Wild Elf Druid. As well as the classic Dwarf Cleric and Human Sorcerer.
It's not Baldur's Gate. It's Icewind Dale. I think Icewind Dale one should be converted to 2's engine and ruleset then updated to run on modern systems without issues.
We have Baldur's Gate, we need Icewind Dale. Think of it more as Baldur's Gates child. Not a clone, similar but not identical!
Well put Archaos!
Of course it could also serve as the starting city for...IWD3!
Sadly, there is no official word yet. I guess we'll have to wait and see what we can expect from this "custom party".
That said, I think there are merits for both NPC companions and custom characters. Yes custom characters are "silent", but I really enjoy the freedom to create my own characters, party dynamics and stories. When I played Avernum 3, I ended up hand-writing over 100 pages of notes to record significant interactions and events and ended up with a (very rough) "novelization" of my adventures. In fact discovering that I had to put up with pre-made companions initially put me off Baldur's Gate. That was, of course, before I got to know them.
So, there will be no NPCs in IWD:EE and I understand that the mentioned custom party of six won't have dialogs/words to make them look as NPCs.
I understand that party would consist of pre-generated characters so that people, unfamiliar with IWD or even IE games in general, could just start right away. Because creating a character needs time and effort, and creating a party needs even more time and effort (you have to think about balance and who will be useful and how can you do it if you don't know what this game is about).
I was just talking about one of my IWD2 characters in another thread, a tiefling Barbarian who, outside of a combat or hostile social situation, is totally lazy and just does not care. His gal-pal, a disciplined and professional fire genasi (well, a tiefling RP'd as a fire-genasi) Fighter, would be in the background with him, occasionally smacking him to make him pay attention, but invariably getting flustered when he starts paying attention to /her/, lewdly so.
I didn't need Black Isle's to give me NPCs who did that. I invested that into the game myself. And, as it turns out, I have only ever completed IWD2 with the party that included those two.
Thanks a lot for bringing up that twitter, it really makes things crystal clear. It's a shame (for me) because I've already played the game once with a silent party. The idea of going back with another silent party is not very appealing to me but I would have seriously preordered a game with quality companions like Neera or Dorn.
That was my first thought too and probably, like you said, the main reason why it wasn't done. I wouldn't even mind having the companions as DLC in the future but the odds are not very welcoming. Like I said, a shame, since I like Beamdogs writing.
@Schneidend
Not for me, it isn't. Look, I respect that for a lot of people these new classes posibilities are very appealing but for me they are just a "nice" extra. What I was really looking forward was the kind of party interaction that made BG2's journey really memorable (for me).
Not even remotely serious