Hello, I installed this over SCS in BG1EE and it seems like any kit I take in the character creation window is overriden by the old kits on game start. For example, I started as a kensai and had no proficiency points and no spell to choose my specialization. Are there common errors that I might of made?
@Grammarsalad@subtledoctor Thanks guys, I understand it much better now, I'll definitely have to try it out. Enforcing the focus on one single weapon would be great, and eventually transitioning from a bard kit to a f/m with this trick.
Totally unrelated, but the thing bugging me most is still my screwed up char gen screen with kits under the wrong parent classes, and selecting them creates a character of that parent class- very frustrating. I have to move my kitlist.2da out of override every time I want to make a different kit, so I suspect the issue is in that table, somewhere.
So some feedback of my installation, somehow something went wrong with the proficiencies:
1) I tried it with the MAGUS from Tome and Blood -> He does not get new proficiencies, he should be able to get a second point in some weapons. I gave him xp to test him and at level 12 he still got no new proficiencies. (Start proficiencies are correctly set)
It does not surprise me in the slightest that SoB's proficiency tweaks and TnB's Magi and Oracles interact poorly. I think that the fix is relatively simple, although it would require a few component checks. @subtledoctor , would you be willing to implement a compatibility tweak for Magi and Oracles? I can give you their proficiency lists if you need. (Apologies that our mods, though designed to work in tandem, have so many minor compatibility errors.)
I mean... it IS possible to give Magi additional player choice profs, although you might not like the mechanism. (Use invisible creature to force the Magus to enter dialogue, let them choose an additional weapon type to get proficiency, set an appropriate local variable to prevent reselection, then cast a spell that sets the prof to 2...) Pretty much any system can be specialized to the kit level if you're willing to do class features through dialogue.
Honestly weapons are not nearly important to a Magus as Armored Casting is, so if this is too much trouble, there is not much lost.
Oracles are effectively Favored Souls (name taken from PF). Each Oracle also is able to get specialization in their associated deity's favored weapon and is able to become proficient in Clubs, Daggers, Flails, Maces, Spears, Staffs, Warhammers, Crossbows, Darts, Shortbows and Slings.
So if you were to include compatibility with Oracles, I would recommend proficiency in aforementioned weapon classes (or their equivalents in your system) plus proficiency in their deity's weapon. At 5th or 10th or something, increase their proficiency with their favored weapon to specialization through a CLAB spl.
Thanks for looking into it. About the Bastard-swords bug. Maybe my description was poorly done. Not only the proficiency was Special but also Bastard-Sword (the item) got renamed to Special. Maybe its some minor incompatible bug, I don't know.
Hello, I installed this over SCS in BG1EE and it seems like any kit I take in the character creation window is overriden by the old kits on game start.
Are there common errors that I might of made?
From what you wrote, a mistake I see is that you installed SCS before SoB. SCS should always be just about the last mod you install. Only aTweaks should go later.
I don't know if installing SoB after SCS would cause this precise problem, but it's certainly plausible.
So I've reinstalled over a fresh install with a fresh download, installing first bgee, sob and then scs but it seems like it still doesnt function. I can select a kit in the character creator, but it reverts to vanilla classes once I start the game. I also dont have proficiency point at character creation.
I'm not sure how that could be and I don't have a BG1 test bed handy. I wouldn't think SCS does anything to do with kits. But then who knows, SCS is kind of all over the place. The best way to nail this down, unfortunately, is boring testing.
I reinstalled bgee and this time only installed sob, I'm confronted by the same problem, could the problem be installation through the beamdog client?
As for the invisible item, it can be put in an unused weapon slot (I think). I believe @wolpak is doing something like this.
You can definitely add abilities via just to the wizard, even though it shares it's clab with the sorcerer. You have to use effect 177 to apply effect to mages (class value 1--iesdp erroneously reports that it detects sorcerers--it does not)
I'm not against the idea of innate/at will 'metamagic'...perhaps some could be innate, some spells, some at will?
As for the invisible item, it can be put in an unused weapon slot (I think). I believe @wolpak is doing something like this.
I'm not against the idea of innate/at will 'metamagic'...perhaps some could be innate, some spells, some at will?
...
I guess the tl;dr plan is, wizards can erect basic spell deflecting shields at will, and can attack spell protections at will, and can use metamagic feats such as contingencies and sequencers once per day.
One thing that strikes me immediately is that 'metamagic' is kinda the abjurer's thing. That's not a huge deal to me*, but it might be an issue for some if the generalist overshadows the abjurer in any way at his game. I know that you said that the abjurer would be very good at defense, but the school can be, I think, divided into two sorts of specialists: defense oriented wizards, and metamagic oriented wizards. This idea seems to overlap both leaving nothing unique for the abjurer...of course, see below*.
Another possible concern is AI wizards probably wouldn't use these innates...
All of them would still be available as spells so that kits/classes that don't get them innately can still cast them (e.g. generalist mages would eventually get Spell Trigger innately, specialists would not but could learn it as a spell and cast it that way). Spell protections as spells would be stronger and have extra effects, absorbing or returning magic rather than simply blocking it. (I would turn Spell Deflection into "Spell Absorption" i.e. "Minor Spell Trap.") So there would still be some reason to use a spell slot on those spells, they would be much better then the innate shield. But if your defenses were removed and you were desperate, you would be able to raise an innate shield in a pinch. Maybe not at will, maybe once every 5 or ten rounds, because of the effort.
So, maybe I should revise the above (leaving it as it may still be a concern). Abjurers might get some of these extra cool meta's as innate allowing them to keep their place as masters of metamagic.
...
Thinking more, it occurs to me that the innate spell attacks don't need to work like the vanilla spells. They can just be normal target spells with no actual effect, but they will act as level x for purpose of burning away the spell deflection.
For example: let's say I cast Minor Spell Turning - I think that blocks/reflects five spell levels, correct? So in the base game you could cast Flame Arrow at me a few times, and the first two would be reflected while the third one gets through and hit me.
Here, rather than casting precious memorized spell to burn through my protection, you could use your innate Spell Thrust ability. It would act as a spell of a level half the caster's level. So if you're 7th level it would act as a 3rd-level spell, just like Flame Arrow: the first would have no effect, the second would have no effect but would cancel my Turning, and on the third round you could hurt me with a Flame Arrow. (If you were 10th level it would cancel my Turning on the first try.) The differences being, 1) you wouldn't have to waste memorized spells to get there, and 2) nothing would be Turned back on you by the Spell Turning, because it would be a spell with no (or very very minor) effect.
Mmmm, this is a very interesting idea!
In principle, this seems far better than the vanilla system. But is it worth the effort? I'm assuming there's no way to get the AI to use it; is that a conversation-ender? Perhaps better to go the simpler (if boring) route of - innate Spell Thrust at level x - innate Secret Word at level y - innate Ray of Reversal at level z ?
That way even though the AI wouldn't have quite the same abilities, the player wouldn't notice the difference.
Well, if someone felt like messing with wizard scripts...this seems especially possible for a mod that needs to be installed after SCS...
*Personally, I think that the abjurer should be eliminated as a specialist with his spells incorporated into the 'general' list. I think that many of their spells--e.g. dispel magic--should be available to all casters as manipulating magic should be a general skill of all mages... (so yeah, I think I agree with you overall)
We actually have made a "Universal" school; its current contents include all Divination spells (due to the removal of the Diviner), Dispel Magic and the Contingency, Wish and Sequencer spell families.
One of the things I was thinking about doing but ultimately decided to not include in TnB 0.4 is having each of the tags (Abjurer, Conjurers, etc.) each block that school (i.e. the Abjurer tag would block Abjuration) and then restructure the Specialist Mage usability flags in KITLIST.2da to be combinations of those individual school tags. Diviner is and will still be reserved for "no arcane spells/scrolls".
@Grammarsalad and I have been talking about cantrips for a pretty long time now. One of the ideas that I was considering for some of the mages were having "cantrips" in the form of a "Fist" weapon. (i.e. Instead of the d2 stun damage default fists, an Invoker would have a 30 ft range d6 fire damage Fire Bolt attack.) Now, in 5e, Cantrips were usable unlimited times, but that was to provide mages something to do once they had exhausted their (drastically reduced) number of spells per day.
@subtledoctor that is a lot to go through. Would it be too much to list only the spells whose schools are altered? Also, I know that some of these spells are already altered in ToM. For example, Find familiar is, I believe, universal. This is the list: [spoiler]
[/spoiler] Edit: I am copying this from the documentation, but I think that there are some missing spells. For example, I think that Identify is also general. Well, it's all a work in progress...
Okay, I'm reading through your recent posts: Perhaps necromancy spells should do 'magical' cold damage, but be called 'negative energy' (in all documentation). Magical fire could be 'positive energy' damage. We can use these now as BGEE has fixed these damage types...I think it might, might, be doable in vanilla with Tobex.
That school stuff also gets me thinking more about Cantrips. I really, really like my little repeatable spells. In my recent IWD play through they are proving to be very fun: useful but not overpowered. In fact underpowered, if anything. I'm thinking about letting them be cast every one or two rounds instead of every three rounds.
I also think about increasing their effects a little bit. But that would necessitate increasing the effects various 1st level spells. Why not instead eliminate the cantrips, and just make 1st level spells repeatable? I think it could be done fairly easily, just add an effect that causes the spell to be re-memorized after a suitable period, say 18 or 30 seconds.
Balance-wise, some spells would then need to be reduced, rather than increased in power. Basically the ones that scale with level like Magic Missile or Burning Hands. But that is easy enough, and perhaps we could edit scrolls to grant the new weak-but-repeatable 1st level spells AND new 2nd level versions that scale with level.
This is an interesting idea. I was thinking of making some first level spells into cantrips (like infravision). Heh, I don't see anybody ever using a second level slot for this spell (does anybody actually use it as a first level slot?)
Personally, I like a 5e-like implementation: selection of a certain number of infinitely castable, but weak 'innate' spells where cantrips can only be gained at certain levels...
Honestly, I would be fine if tweaks to spells etc. happened in TnB and not in your mod, as this seems more the domain/goal of TnB and very much less so with your goals with SoB.
Also, Find Familiar is no longer a "spell" it is an "innate" available to all arcane spellcasters.
Comments
For example, I started as a kensai and had no proficiency points and no spell to choose my specialization.
Are there common errors that I might of made?
Totally unrelated, but the thing bugging me most is still my screwed up char gen screen with kits under the wrong parent classes, and selecting them creates a character of that parent class- very frustrating. I have to move my kitlist.2da out of override every time I want to make a different kit, so I suspect the issue is in that table, somewhere.
Honestly weapons are not nearly important to a Magus as Armored Casting is, so if this is too much trouble, there is not much lost.
Oracles are effectively Favored Souls (name taken from PF). Each Oracle also is able to get specialization in their associated deity's favored weapon and is able to become proficient in Clubs, Daggers, Flails, Maces, Spears, Staffs, Warhammers, Crossbows, Darts, Shortbows and Slings.
So if you were to include compatibility with Oracles, I would recommend proficiency in aforementioned weapon classes (or their equivalents in your system) plus proficiency in their deity's weapon. At 5th or 10th or something, increase their proficiency with their favored weapon to specialization through a CLAB spl.
About the Bastard-swords bug. Maybe my description was poorly done.
Not only the proficiency was Special but also Bastard-Sword (the item) got renamed to Special. Maybe its some minor incompatible bug, I don't know.
As for the invisible item, it can be put in an unused weapon slot (I think). I believe @wolpak is doing something like this.
You can definitely add abilities via just to the wizard, even though it shares it's clab with the sorcerer. You have to use effect 177 to apply effect to mages (class value 1--iesdp erroneously reports that it detects sorcerers--it does not)
I'm not against the idea of innate/at will 'metamagic'...perhaps some could be innate, some spells, some at will?
Another possible concern is AI wizards probably wouldn't use these innates... So, maybe I should revise the above (leaving it as it may still be a concern). Abjurers might get some of these extra cool meta's as innate allowing them to keep their place as masters of metamagic. Mmmm, this is a very interesting idea! Well, if someone felt like messing with wizard scripts...this seems especially possible for a mod that needs to be installed after SCS...
*Personally, I think that the abjurer should be eliminated as a specialist with his spells incorporated into the 'general' list. I think that many of their spells--e.g. dispel magic--should be available to all casters as manipulating magic should be a general skill of all mages... (so yeah, I think I agree with you overall)
Edit: Formatting
One of the things I was thinking about doing but ultimately decided to not include in TnB 0.4 is having each of the tags (Abjurer, Conjurers, etc.) each block that school (i.e. the Abjurer tag would block Abjuration) and then restructure the Specialist Mage usability flags in KITLIST.2da to be combinations of those individual school tags. Diviner is and will still be reserved for "no arcane spells/scrolls".
@Grammarsalad and I have been talking about cantrips for a pretty long time now. One of the ideas that I was considering for some of the mages were having "cantrips" in the form of a "Fist" weapon. (i.e. Instead of the d2 stun damage default fists, an Invoker would have a 30 ft range d6 fire damage Fire Bolt attack.) Now, in 5e, Cantrips were usable unlimited times, but that was to provide mages something to do once they had exhausted their (drastically reduced) number of spells per day.
[spoiler] [/spoiler]
Edit: I am copying this from the documentation, but I think that there are some missing spells. For example, I think that Identify is also general. Well, it's all a work in progress...
Personally, I like a 5e-like implementation: selection of a certain number of infinitely castable, but weak 'innate' spells where cantrips can only be gained at certain levels...
Also, Find Familiar is no longer a "spell" it is an "innate" available to all arcane spellcasters.