How about a Priest of AO kit that receives no bonuses and loses the ability to cast spells for the truly hardcore.
I like the idea of the favored weapon assuming its not too hard to get around the cleric's inability to use bladed weapons. Of course if it was an innate weapon summon that improves over time that could be a unique granted weapon. Something similar to the SCS Improved Shapeshifting concept, but that improves over time (I guess you'd have to re-summon it after it improved).
But you might have a much more finessed idea for implementation. But the concept of being able to use a Favored Axe or something as a Dwarf Cleric would be quite cool or a longsword for Elf Cleric (though I'd prefer to see a Seldarine kit).
I've never used Divine Remix. Generally I don't use Kit Mods, I picked up yours because I really liked the idea of the Multiclass Kits and I don't think I'd seen it before. I used to add in a kit sometimes with EE Keeper but it winds up being really overpowered. So for me I really like what you've done and would definitely be interested in seeing some more in that area.
I reference Longswords for Elves or Axes for Dwarves particularly because they are racially proficient but get neither bonuses by going Cleric or Class/Cleric of any kind which is a shame. A dual-wielding Dwarf cleric Warhammer / Axe would be cool though I don't know how you would balance that if you were going to give proficiency over time.
In terms of "favoured weapon", I think that would be a good way to incorporate it (add automatic proficiencies at X levels). I think this is the official compilation of deities' weapons (http://home.comcast.net/~ftm3/JHtB/FavoredWeapons.html), but some don't exactly match up and there are only so many weapon types in Baldur's Gate, so this is what I'd suggest:
- Lathander = mace - Selune = warhammer - Sune = bow (imo, it's the most "romantic" or elegant fantasy weapon) - Helm = longsword - Mystra = staff - Talos = spear (alternatively, bastard sword) - Shar = dagger (technically, an Indian throwing star) - Malar = innate beast claws (I haven't played the kit, but if they scale, then that'll work) - Baervan = spear - Clangeddin = axe - Mielikki = scimitar - Arvoreen = short sword - Brandobaris = dagger - Mask = longsword
-Oghma might be a cool god to do, focusing on the "Power Word" and Secret Word abilities, a hefty chunk of lore, and Longsword as a weapon. -Amaunator could be another. God of the sun and order, a focus on the Sunfire ability or Domination and other mind-controlling abilities. I seem to remember a quest involving him in BG2, but I can't remember whether or not Amaunator is dead as of AD&D. (Fantasy parthenons are not my strong suit) -This page might be of help, too. http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/Gods.htm
-Amaunator could be another. God of the sun and order, a focus on the Sunfire ability or Domination and other mind-controlling abilities. I seem to remember a quest involving him in BG2, but I can't remember whether or not Amaunator is dead as of AD&D. (Fantasy parthenons are not my strong suit)
I believe there are two references to him in BG2. The Temple Ruins used to be a temple to him. And I think (can't recall) but I believe the Diseased ones are guarding his Rod in the Unseeing Eye area. I don't know that it ever specifies that he is dead (and probably isn't dead if his avatar appears to you in the Unseeing Eye place). However, he definitely isn't worshipped like he used to be.
I think really what darts need is a drastic reduction in their effective range. Something like half the distance to the fog of war. They're thrown weapons, sure, but they're not distance weapons. That, and removing STR damage. And giving casters a concentration check so that the chance of being disrupted is connected to the amount of damage done by an attack. With those three adjustments, darts would be fine.
Just so you know darts, throwing daggers and throwing hand-axes already have halved range (15).
Regarding STR dmg, I do agree darts should not have it. Their insane apr makes up for it. Otoh I'm still undecided about Slings getting STR dmg...
Concentration check from ToBEx is A MUST imo, but I don't think EE has it, does it?
- I think the CORSAIR could use 1 more advantage, the only positive thing he gets over the fighter is "Swashbuckling" and the Fighter can use better armor so right now it looks like the Corsair is just a limited Fighter ?
Here's an idea I just had: how about changing the Corsair into a multiclass fighter/thief kit? Then it and the Swashbuckler will really be on two steps along the same spectrum...
That is a great idea that suites the name!
I need more free time to test all that awesome new stuff you made! As soon as I can get a free evening (maybe on the weekend) I will play (I mean test ) with you last version.
This also includes the new Mistwalker of Leira kit, a cleric who can cast Illusion spells. It *replaces* the Gloryblood of Tempus kit - if you want to play a priest of Tempus you can use the kit from Beamdog or Divine Remix.
I like that, but what about the Branwen as Gloryblood component? Is it also removed? (I love kitted NPCs, when the kit matches so well)
Also making people suck in the weapons that they have no training in is fine to me. Its also like a small bonus for the pure fighter
So, the proposal is to go through the various spells and abilities, and selectively make some of them bypass MR. Most (but not all) Invocations, Illusions, Enchantments, and Necromancies, will be subject to MR. Most (but not all) Transmutations and Conjurations will bypass MR.
On balance, this will make the game a bit more challenging for players who like to load up on MR themselves and wade into battle against liches. It will make the game a bit easier for most players, who will be able to use Fireball against drow.
Concept wise I mostly agree with you and I was tempted to go for it within SR, but guess what stopped me...AI, especially SCS.
Short story: this change would only make the game a lot easier for players while slightly screwing the AI.
The AI, and in particular highly efficient scripts like SCS and RR ones, check for magic resistance and either counter it with Lower Res or pick a different vulnerable target. If you make a spell ignore mr the AI will still not cast it again a player with good mr, while players can easily take advantage of it. Certain opponents (e.g. drows and creatures with high magic res) will be heavily nerfed, while players only see the benefits of these changes.
That being said, the idea is good, and some players may both like it and ignore the above "issue". I just wanted you to know why I did not implemented similar changes within SR. As you know SCS AI and optimizing the efficiency of its scripts is a top priority for me even if it's not always the best thing in terms of "concept" (e.g. picking more "thematic" or less efficient spells sometimes would create more unique/fun encounters imo).
I hate the way MR works. Rather than working like fire resistance or slashing resistance or something, where the effect is reduced by some degree, it just applies a chance to completely avoid an effect. Plus it's not related to the power of the magic (shouldn't MR work better against 1st-level spells than 9th-level spells?) Finally, Bioware fell in love with MR and started putting if everywhere to add 'challenge' for the player (which was only necessary because they turned the game into a munchkin-fest and gave the player way too much power to begin with).
Okay rant over, here's the proposal:
This is a game full of "house rules," and a lot of stuff is open to interpretation. So for instance, why does MR protect against Stinking Cloud? The Bioware answer is, "because MR is our ultimate boogeyman effect." But there's a principled argument that the "magic" of Stinking Cloud is in conjuring the cloud (if it's in the Conjuration school) or in transforming the air into a noxious gas (if Alteration). The effects of the cloud are not magical at all.
So that spell should bypass MR. Ditto Fireball, where the magic is in the creation of the fireball. (Incidentally this is a great explanation for why Sunfire bypasses MR.) Contrarily, a spell that targets someone, like Magic Missile or Disintegrate, or that applies a purely magical effect, like Sleep or Symbol: Fear, should still be blocked by MR.
So, the proposal is to go through the various spells and abilities, and selectively make some of them bypass MR. Most (but not all) Invocations, Illusions, Enchantments, and Necromancies, will be subject to MR. Most (but not all) Transmutations and Conjurations will bypass MR.
On balance, this will make the game a bit more challenging for players who like to load up on MR themselves and wade into battle against liches. It will make the game a bit easier for most players, who will be able to use Fireball against drow. Really it will only appeal to people like me who just don't like the way the game uses MR.
Actually PnP is explicit that MR *does* apply to fireball and other area-effect spells:
Magic resistance applies only if the successful casting of a spell would directly affect the resistant creature or item. Thus, magic resistance is effective against magic missile (targeted at a creature or item) or fireball (damaging the area the creature or item is in) spells.
BG1 did hand out way too much MR to PCs. The PHB states "Player characters do not normally have magic resistance (though they still get saving throws vs. magical spells and such); this ability is reserved mainly for special monsters." And, I can't think of a tabletop game I played in where PCs (except for drow) who had significant permanent MR like Balduran's Cloak in BG1 before 10th level.
I think a mod to limit the MR available to PCs would be a great idea.
An oversight - but the Branwen component requires the presence of the Tempus kit's .2da file, so it is effectively commented out, for all intents and purposes.
Also, there is a rather serious bug in v2.3: I made a typo with the DESIGNATED number of the druid component and now it overlaps with the Alora comp. I *think* I commented out the Alora comp to stop it from doing any harm... but I don't recall with certainty.
I'm working on v2.4 which is basically a pure bug-fix release: - the Alora component is fixed; - the Branwen component now checks for the Divine Remix Battleguard kit instead of the SoB Gloryblood; -
@subtledoctor BWS needs at least fist fix to be commited into github. I'm in the process of adding it to BWS for all games and with lot of conflict-logic.
This mod will be one of the first in my new playground.
Okay. I'm sorry about this but I'm feeling a bit of a fool now. I seem to have lost the Bladesinger totem. SOB is properly installed (alongside a lot more) on a BGT installation and I've managed to find the other totems easily enough, but I can't find it either in Shadowkeeper or in the game world. Does it have a different name or is it not in the BG1 world at all?
Ah. Okay, now I feel like less of a fool. I thought I was looking for a needle in a haystack only to realise that there was no needle. I'm a bit curious about what makes it incompatible with BGT, though. I get that weapon style coding was something new with EE (or it was separated, I'm not sure), but Bladesinger just has a few automatic profs and a unique daily power. I can easily enough emulate the kit myself (a few smacks of Defensive/Offensive Spin and those auto profs with an elven multi FM), but I think it would work quite well as an "alternate" Blade, since you completely did away with the kit. Elves do have a great tradition of song, and the Bladesingers were meant to be very graceful magical warriors (somewhat like the original Blade).
In the meantime, I'll go back to DA:I and eagerly await the day where the Loresinger gets the Spell Revision divine spells. Then, it can really feel like a Cleric/Bard (a surprisingly kickass class). Keep up the good work!
I will change my plans. I will start testing with IWD:EE first. Is it ok to use 2.4 for it? I would like to use atweaks, should I install it after SoB?
My Modlist (and install order) will be: 1. Minor NPC Portraits 2. More Style for Mages 3. BG2 Tweaks (just some minor things area reveal, no tables and rule changes) 4. Wizard Slayer 2.0 5. Duskblade Kit 6. Rogue Rebalancing 7. SCALES of BALANCE (complete pack) 8. aTweaks
How does "House Rules for IWD:EE" interact with SoB?
Comments
I like the idea of the favored weapon assuming its not too hard to get around the cleric's inability to use bladed weapons. Of course if it was an innate weapon summon that improves over time that could be a unique granted weapon. Something similar to the SCS Improved Shapeshifting concept, but that improves over time (I guess you'd have to re-summon it after it improved).
But you might have a much more finessed idea for implementation. But the concept of being able to use a Favored Axe or something as a Dwarf Cleric would be quite cool or a longsword for Elf Cleric (though I'd prefer to see a Seldarine kit).
I reference Longswords for Elves or Axes for Dwarves particularly because they are racially proficient but get neither bonuses by going Cleric or Class/Cleric of any kind which is a shame. A dual-wielding Dwarf cleric Warhammer / Axe would be cool though I don't know how you would balance that if you were going to give proficiency over time.
- Lathander = mace
- Selune = warhammer
- Sune = bow (imo, it's the most "romantic" or elegant fantasy weapon)
- Helm = longsword
- Mystra = staff
- Talos = spear (alternatively, bastard sword)
- Shar = dagger (technically, an Indian throwing star)
- Malar = innate beast claws (I haven't played the kit, but if they scale, then that'll work)
- Baervan = spear
- Clangeddin = axe
- Mielikki = scimitar
- Arvoreen = short sword
- Brandobaris = dagger
- Mask = longsword
-Oghma might be a cool god to do, focusing on the "Power Word" and Secret Word abilities, a hefty chunk of lore, and Longsword as a weapon.
-Amaunator could be another. God of the sun and order, a focus on the Sunfire ability or Domination and other mind-controlling abilities. I seem to remember a quest involving him in BG2, but I can't remember whether or not Amaunator is dead as of AD&D. (Fantasy parthenons are not my strong suit)
-This page might be of help, too. http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/Gods.htm
Regarding STR dmg, I do agree darts should not have it. Their insane apr makes up for it. Otoh I'm still undecided about Slings getting STR dmg...
Concentration check from ToBEx is A MUST imo, but I don't think EE has it, does it?
I need more free time to test all that awesome new stuff you made!
As soon as I can get a free evening (maybe on the weekend) I will play (I mean test
Also I need more time to write more feedback!
(I love kitted NPCs, when the kit matches so well)
Also making people suck in the weapons that they have no training in is fine to me.
Its also like a small bonus for the pure fighter
Short story: this change would only make the game a lot easier for players while slightly screwing the AI.
The AI, and in particular highly efficient scripts like SCS and RR ones, check for magic resistance and either counter it with Lower Res or pick a different vulnerable target. If you make a spell ignore mr the AI will still not cast it again a player with good mr, while players can easily take advantage of it. Certain opponents (e.g. drows and creatures with high magic res) will be heavily nerfed, while players only see the benefits of these changes.
That being said, the idea is good, and some players may both like it and ignore the above "issue". I just wanted you to know why I did not implemented similar changes within SR. As you know SCS AI and optimizing the efficiency of its scripts is a top priority for me even if it's not always the best thing in terms of "concept" (e.g. picking more "thematic" or less efficient spells sometimes would create more unique/fun encounters imo).
Actually PnP is explicit that MR *does* apply to fireball and other area-effect spells:
Magic resistance applies only if the successful casting of a spell would directly affect the resistant creature or item. Thus, magic resistance is effective against magic missile (targeted at a creature or item) or fireball (damaging the area the creature or item is in) spells.
BG1 did hand out way too much MR to PCs. The PHB states "Player characters do not normally have magic resistance (though they still get saving throws vs. magical spells and such); this ability is reserved mainly for special monsters." And, I can't think of a tabletop game I played in where PCs (except for drow) who had significant permanent MR like Balduran's Cloak in BG1 before 10th level.
I think a mod to limit the MR available to PCs would be a great idea.
This mod will be one of the first in my new playground.
In the meantime, I'll go back to DA:I and eagerly await the day where the Loresinger gets the Spell Revision divine spells. Then, it can really feel like a Cleric/Bard (a surprisingly kickass class). Keep up the good work!
Is it ok to use 2.4 for it?
I would like to use atweaks, should I install it after SoB?
My Modlist (and install order) will be:
1. Minor NPC Portraits
2. More Style for Mages
3. BG2 Tweaks (just some minor things area reveal, no tables and rule changes)
4. Wizard Slayer 2.0
5. Duskblade Kit
6. Rogue Rebalancing
7. SCALES of BALANCE (complete pack)
8. aTweaks
How does "House Rules for IWD:EE" interact with SoB?