IWD2 won't go to the BGEE ruleset. It literally can't. BGEE has no 3E skill system, which is integrated into the conversations in the game. BGEE can't replicate a character having 4 points in Intimdate or 3 points in Knowledge: Nature.
Agreed. But while IWD2 is skill-bound, it might be possible for an EE to substitute an ability check STR (or CHA) for intimidate, and make nature checks dependent on class (druid/ranger) and/or INT or WIS for instance. This would require a total restructuring of those checks in the dialogues however, which may be a lot of work, and it would definitely change the balance of the game.
It's not the skill system that's the toughest, but the numerous small changes in the combat system. (thac0 vs bab, etc). The skill system is actually compatible with 2e (house ruled nonweapon proficiencies are just like skills). Even the reduced number of saving throws wouldn't be a huge problem, or the ability based bonus system. (Speaking from GemRB experience).
I'm skeptical. It's no longer a matter of converting the game to 2.5/BGEE if you ALSO have to add a non-weapon proficiency system. If switching from thac0 to BAB would be a problem, then adding a whole new proficiency table would definitely be a problem. Overhaul has, so far, worked with what is already presented, and I think that suits them. A full conversion sounds not only like more work than is necessary, but too homogeneous. As others have pointed out, IWD has always felt different from BG, even though the first two games of each franchise more or less share a ruleset, and that has been a big part of its success. With an IWD2EE, Overhaul has the opportunity to do something different rather than rest on their laurels, and wasting that opportunity would be a bad idea on multiple levels. More work, less faithful to the original game, a disappointment to fans who like 3E, scrapping all of Black Isle's effort even though they did a lot to improve the UI and push IE to its maximum potential at the time, etc.
I guess they can give IWD2 the same treatment that they effectively gave BG2 - that is, polish it up, make it available on ipad, add a quest or two and a few kits and be happy with that.
Perhaps upgrading IWD2 from 3e to 3.5e is an option?
The coolest thing would be if once you bought IWD2 you could play any of the EE games in 2.5e or 3.5e. I'd love to play BG series in the ruleset that I loved the most and I'm sure many people would love IWD2 in 2.5e.
I don't know why, but the way IWD2's story is structured has always reminded me of those old sprawling war novels of literary romanticism.
This. So much this. IWD2 is basically a war epic, and needs to be seen as such (and not as a classic dungeon romp or questing adventure).
I honestly think that, apart from potential main characters, IWD2 would be best suitable for a movie.
As long as Sherincal gets a big role, I'm all for it. I've always been fascinated by her character. If any existing NPC in IWD2 were to be modded to become a party character, I'd want it to be an opportunity to turn Sherincal into an ally.
"Look, we've got a tiefling, a half-orc, a drow, and a duergar in our group, and even WE think you're going about this all wrong. You helped bring these disparate races together, but together you've become everything you despise in humans and elves, if not worse."
@Schneidend@Nimran Once upon a time there was a thread where I was pretty active where we were discussing potential actors for the BG movie series. I'm not sure I've played enough IWD(2) or delved into the characters enough to do that here...
@Schneidend@Nimran Once upon a time there was a thread where I was pretty active where we were discussing potential actors for the BG movie series. I'm not sure I've played enough IWD(2) or delved into the characters enough to do that here...
That's a tough one, because IWD2 has numerous female antagonists who are badass melee warriors, like Sherincal, one of the two final bosses, and one of the Aurilites, to name a few. I don't know if there's a large enough pool of women in Hollywood who can fill that role. Then again, so many actresses who regularly star in action movies are less mainstream and I don't usually remember their names. Michelle Rodriguez could possibly play part of the final boss pair, but I don't think she's into fantasy stuff. Then again, she might enjoy the change of pace.
I know this will never happen, but I so badly want to be able to join the Legion of the Chimera in Icewind Dale II:EE! Especially as an Half-Orc, Tiefling, Duergar, or Drow for that matter. Their goal to create a save haven for the so-called "monster" races always was very noble in my eyes. And there's of course the very intruiging Sherincal as well. Dem scales!
Now *that* would make for a great enhancement! Imagine the game would split into two plotlinies, the standard one and a Legion one, to chose from. What if the characters could chose to side with the legion of the chimera when they meet one of the leaders at the Horde Fortress near Shaenegarne.
I know this will never happen, but I so badly want to be able to join the Legion of the Chimera in Icewind Dale II:EE! Especially as an Half-Orc, Tiefling, Duergar, or Drow for that matter. Their goal to create a save haven for the so-called "monster" races always was very noble in my eyes. And there's of course the very intruiging Sherincal as well. Dem scales!
Now *that* would make for a great enhancement! Imagine the game would split into two plotlinies, the standard one and a Legion one, to chose from. What if the characters could chose to side with the legion of the chimera when they meet one of the leaders at the Horde Fortress near Shaenegarne.
That or they could convince Phaen to let them join in Targos.
I know this will never happen, but I so badly want to be able to join the Legion of the Chimera in Icewind Dale II:EE! Especially as an Half-Orc, Tiefling, Duergar, or Drow for that matter. Their goal to create a save haven for the so-called "monster" races always was very noble in my eyes. And there's of course the very intruiging Sherincal as well. Dem scales!
Now *that* would make for a great enhancement! Imagine the game would split into two plotlinies, the standard one and a Legion one, to chose from. What if the characters could chose to side with the legion of the chimera when they meet one of the leaders at the Horde Fortress near Shaenegarne.
I think the problem we run into, here, is that without the PCs, the forces opposing the Legion are pitiful. It'd be a short, anticlimactic game. And, given how radical, ruthless, and racist the Legion of the Chimera itself is, that plotline could pretty much only be explored by Evil PCs.
I know this will never happen, but I so badly want to be able to join the Legion of the Chimera in Icewind Dale II:EE! Especially as an Half-Orc, Tiefling, Duergar, or Drow for that matter. Their goal to create a save haven for the so-called "monster" races always was very noble in my eyes. And there's of course the very intruiging Sherincal as well. Dem scales!
Now *that* would make for a great enhancement! Imagine the game would split into two plotlinies, the standard one and a Legion one, to chose from. What if the characters could chose to side with the legion of the chimera when they meet one of the leaders at the Horde Fortress near Shaenegarne.
I think the problem we run into, here, is that without the PCs, the forces opposing the Legion are pitiful. It'd be a short, anticlimactic game. And, given how radical, ruthless, and racist the Legion of the Chimera itself is, that plotline could pretty much only be explored by Evil PCs.
True, though the other towns could have had time to prepare for the legion as they were attacking Targos. Of course, this is ignoring all the hard work associated with dramatically altering the original game to allow it, but it is still a fun idea.
I know this will never happen, but I so badly want to be able to join the Legion of the Chimera in Icewind Dale II:EE! Especially as an Half-Orc, Tiefling, Duergar, or Drow for that matter. Their goal to create a save haven for the so-called "monster" races always was very noble in my eyes. And there's of course the very intruiging Sherincal as well. Dem scales!
Now *that* would make for a great enhancement! Imagine the game would split into two plotlinies, the standard one and a Legion one, to chose from. What if the characters could chose to side with the legion of the chimera when they meet one of the leaders at the Horde Fortress near Shaenegarne.
I think the problem we run into, here, is that without the PCs, the forces opposing the Legion are pitiful. It'd be a short, anticlimactic game. And, given how radical, ruthless, and racist the Legion of the Chimera itself is, that plotline could pretty much only be explored by Evil PCs.
You would have to assume another party of strong adventurers arrived to oppose the legion.
You would have to assume another party of strong adventurers arrived to oppose the legion.
So, there's a second party that only comes into existence if you turn traitor? That strikes me as a bit silly. Also, still short and anticlimactic. There's nobody worth fighting to get between you and this other party.
You would have to assume another party of strong adventurers arrived to oppose the legion.
So, there's a second party that only comes into existence if you turn traitor? That strikes me as a bit silly. Also, still short and anticlimactic. There's nobody worth fighting to get between you and this other party.
It's not really that much of a stretch. Many ships set out from Luskan, it's possible another makes it though, but arrives later due to damage. I'm not thinking they would be a one shot fight either. They would be working all the way through to rally the good folk, undo the damage the player heroes have done, throw rings into cracks of doom, and generally giving evil players something to do.
@Fardragon But, where are these guys during the normal, anti-Legion story? Also, the "good folk" they'd rally are weak townsfolk, and they don't have awesome dungeons like the Ice Fortress for the Legion party to traverse. I'm just saying, the way IWD2's conflict is set up, it really wouldn't work too well.
Trust me, I'd love an option like that if it could make sense, like say siding with Caesar's Legion in Fallout: New Vegas, but in IWD2's case it just doesn't work out.
@Fardragon But, where are these guys during the normal, anti-Legion story? Also, the "good folk" they'd rally are weak townsfolk, and they don't have awesome dungeons like the Ice Fortress for the Legion party to traverse. I'm just saying, the way IWD2's conflict is set up, it really wouldn't work too well.
Trust me, I'd love an option like that if it could make sense, like say siding with Caesar's Legion in Fallout: New Vegas, but in IWD2's case it just doesn't work out.
Why should they exist at all during the normal story? And turning "weak townsfolk" into a formidable fighting force is a standard fantasy (and Western) trope.
But, why do they NOT exist during the normal story? They only show up when you go traitor, and cease to exist entirely when you're the hero? That's just shoddy writing.
Yes, I understand narrative mechanics, and that turning peasants into warriors is a standard trope. I've seen Samurai 7 and The Magnificent Seven. However, in those stories, that actually happens. In IWD2, the Ten-Towns never actually do that. Even if they did, they still don't have cool dungeons, and the Legion is still the better army by a longshot, especially with your party leading the charge and Sherincal not being dead.
But, why do they NOT exist during the normal story? They only show up when you go traitor, and cease to exist entirely when you're the hero? That's just shoddy writing.
Yes, I understand narrative mechanics, and that turning peasants into warriors is a standard trope. I've seen Samurai 7 and The Magnificent Seven. However, in those stories, that actually happens. In IWD2, the Ten-Towns never actually do that. Even if they did, they still don't have cool dungeons, and the Legion is still the better army by a longshot, especially with your party leading the charge and Sherincal not being dead.
Cosmic laws (the laws of narrative) require that where there are villains, then there must also be heroes to oppose them. If a shipload of villains arrives in Easthaven to help the villains that are there already, then a shipload of heroes would also be miraculously spared.
Yeah, I get how that works, but it's still bad writing when both outcomes can be readily viewed by the audience, like in video games.
"Bad writing" is "evil wins unopposed. The End."
There is nothing "bad" when playing a game in a different way produces a different outcome. Especially in fantasy setting where there are gods to adjust the comic balance in response to the actions of players.
I respectfully disagree. Sometimes we *need* stories in which evil wins unopposed so that when the next chapter begins--nothing ever ends, as Dr. Manhattan tells us--we can follow along as the previously victorious evil is overthrown. Of course, the chapter after *that* is when the now-victorious good has gotten to the point where it causes more problems than it solves and either becomes evil or evil begins to grow again....
There is nothing "bad" when playing a game in a different way produces a different outcome. Especially in fantasy setting where there are gods to adjust the comic balance in response to the actions of players.
Different outcomes are fine, but an conspicuous inconsistency between the two like an equally powerful group appearing out of nowhere that didn't exist five seconds ago because you picked dialogue option 4 instead of dialogue option 1 is silly. They would have to appear in some capacity in both outcomes to prevent it from being nonsensical. Even just watching Isair and Madae obliterate them would be better than never hearing of them in the anti-Legion playthrough and them suddenly showing up being totally awesome in the pro-Legion playthrough.
@Queegon I'd rather Overhaul not waste their time making an enhanced edition of a D&D visual novel. At least Tides of Numenera is promising to be more of an actual game than PS:T.
There is nothing "bad" when playing a game in a different way produces a different outcome. Especially in fantasy setting where there are gods to adjust the comic balance in response to the actions of players.
Different outcomes are fine, but an conspicuous inconsistency between the two like an equally powerful group appearing out of nowhere that didn't exist five seconds ago because you picked dialogue option 4 instead of dialogue option 1 is silly.
No it isn't. It would only take the slightest nudge from Tymora to make the difference between a ship surviving or being wrecked, a hero turning left, or right, a farmboy finding a magic sword, or being eaten by a bear. The Forgotten Realms runs on narrative power. Unlikely coincidences happen all the time.
Indeed, the whole plot of IWD hinges on the unlikely coincidence of the player party being the only survivors of an avalanche. The plot of IWD2 hinges on the unlikely coincidence of the players ship being the only one to survive the storm.
I'd rather Overhaul not waste their time making an enhanced edition of a D&D visual novel. At least Tides of Numenera is promising to be more of an actual game than PS:T.
*puts on general's helmet* Prepare the lynch mob! Distribute pitchforks and light the torches! Advance on target!
Comments
Perhaps upgrading IWD2 from 3e to 3.5e is an option?
The coolest thing would be if once you bought IWD2 you could play any of the EE games in 2.5e or 3.5e. I'd love to play BG series in the ruleset that I loved the most and I'm sure many people would love IWD2 in 2.5e.
"Look, we've got a tiefling, a half-orc, a drow, and a duergar in our group, and even WE think you're going about this all wrong. You helped bring these disparate races together, but together you've become everything you despise in humans and elves, if not worse."
But, where are these guys during the normal, anti-Legion story? Also, the "good folk" they'd rally are weak townsfolk, and they don't have awesome dungeons like the Ice Fortress for the Legion party to traverse. I'm just saying, the way IWD2's conflict is set up, it really wouldn't work too well.
Trust me, I'd love an option like that if it could make sense, like say siding with Caesar's Legion in Fallout: New Vegas, but in IWD2's case it just doesn't work out.
Yes, I understand narrative mechanics, and that turning peasants into warriors is a standard trope. I've seen Samurai 7 and The Magnificent Seven. However, in those stories, that actually happens. In IWD2, the Ten-Towns never actually do that. Even if they did, they still don't have cool dungeons, and the Legion is still the better army by a longshot, especially with your party leading the charge and Sherincal not being dead.
There is nothing "bad" when playing a game in a different way produces a different outcome. Especially in fantasy setting where there are gods to adjust the comic balance in response to the actions of players.
The idea of the Legion was initially not that bad. Provide a safe haven for the half-breeds, mongrels and other otherwise hated races.
Also, would we have such a magnificent story in Star Wars if the emperor hadn't won in the prequels?
And the Emperor was far from unopposed. He had to take out the whole Jedi order, starting with just 2 Sith.
Ressurected Black Geoffrey saves the day!
Hope it can be alive before Torment:Tides of Numenera...
@Queegon
I'd rather Overhaul not waste their time making an enhanced edition of a D&D visual novel. At least Tides of Numenera is promising to be more of an actual game than PS:T.
Indeed, the whole plot of IWD hinges on the unlikely coincidence of the player party being the only survivors of an avalanche. The plot of IWD2 hinges on the unlikely coincidence of the players ship being the only one to survive the storm.