The change in the ruleset for IWD2 made the game unplayable to me. I hated it. I would love to see it changed back to the same rules the other games used, though I do not know how feasible that is.
No it isn't. It would only take the slightest nudge from Tymora to make the difference between a ship surviving or being wrecked, a hero turning left, or right, a farmboy finding a magic sword, or being eaten by a bear. The Forgotten Realms runs on narrative power. Unlikely coincidences happen all the time.
Indeed, the whole plot of IWD hinges on the unlikely coincidence of the player party being the only survivors of an avalanche. The plot of IWD2 hinges on the unlikely coincidence of the players ship being the only one to survive the storm.
Again, I understand narrative mechanics, but a game is different from a novel or short story. We'll never see what's behind the curtain in either of those mediums. However, in a video game, a player can easily reload a save and see the alternative outcome, or play back-to-back playthroughs, therefore both outcomes need to be believable and parallel to maintain the integrity of the narrative. The second a player asks "wait, what happened to those other guys?" you've lost their suspension of disbelief.
The change in the ruleset for IWD2 made the game unplayable to me. I hated it. I would love to see it changed back to the same rules the other games used, though I do not know how feasible that is.
Care to elaborate? I am curious as to how a mechanical change made it "unplayable."
No it isn't. It would only take the slightest nudge from Tymora to make the difference between a ship surviving or being wrecked, a hero turning left, or right, a farmboy finding a magic sword, or being eaten by a bear. The Forgotten Realms runs on narrative power. Unlikely coincidences happen all the time.
Indeed, the whole plot of IWD hinges on the unlikely coincidence of the player party being the only survivors of an avalanche. The plot of IWD2 hinges on the unlikely coincidence of the players ship being the only one to survive the storm.
Again, I understand narrative mechanics, but a game is different from a novel or short story. We'll never see what's behind the curtain in either of those mediums. However, in a video game, a player can easily reload a save and see the alternative outcome, or play back-to-back playthroughs, therefore both outcomes need to be believable and parallel to maintain the integrity of the narrative. The second a player asks "wait, what happened to those other guys?" you've lost their suspension of disbelief.
The very act of loading a saved game is deliberately peaking behind the curtain. If you look behind the scenery, you should expect to see the ropes and pulleys.
As it happens, I have studied so much literature that I find it difficult to read any novel without seeing behind the curtain.
Indeed. While it's still a valid discussion point, I don't believe an "evil path" would be implemented. And I think this has more to do with the rights to the game than anything else. IIRC, a lot of ideas that were put forward in mods for the original BG were not allowed to be implemented by Beamdog in the EE, simply because it would change the flow of the game too much.
Plus seeing how light IWD:EE is on additional playable content (mostly just having included stuff from preexisting mods), I don't think we'll see something nearly as elaborate as an alternate main quest path in IWD2:EE.
I'm guessing @CoryNewb is referring to Oster's earlier comments around here about the engine being so much different for IWD2 that creating an enhanced version would be like starting from scratch, and thus was a very unlikely possibility. I don't have the link handy, but I'm sure someone around here does. I do have this snippet from an RPGFan interview in 2012:
RPGFan: How long did the entire update process take? Could this process be used on any of the other Infinity Engine games?
Trent Oster: ...Yes, the process could be done on other Infinity games. We plan to use the same codebase for our upcoming Baldur's Gate 2: Enhanced Edition. Further projects will depend on how similar they are to the BG codebase. Icewind Dale is very close, Planescape:Torment is less so and Icewind Dale 2 is pretty far out there.
My guess? Since we know the success of BGEE and BG2EE resulted in an IWDEE, it stands to reason that IWD2EE means IWDEE has to sell very well, even better than previous EEs to make up for the level of engine work required. So, not impossible, but not a sure thing either. Good news for Planescape fans though, their code is closer to BG apparently.
I'm guessing @CoryNewb is referring to Oster's earlier comments around here about the engine being so much different for IWD2 that creating an enhanced version would be like starting from scratch, and thus was a very unlikely possibility. I don't have the link handy, but I'm sure someone around here does. I do have this snippet from an RPGFan interview in 2012:
RPGFan: How long did the entire update process take? Could this process be used on any of the other Infinity Engine games?
Trent Oster: ...Yes, the process could be done on other Infinity games. We plan to use the same codebase for our upcoming Baldur's Gate 2: Enhanced Edition. Further projects will depend on how similar they are to the BG codebase. Icewind Dale is very close, Planescape:Torment is less so and Icewind Dale 2 is pretty far out there.
My guess? Since we know the success of BGEE and BG2EE resulted in an IWDEE, it stands to reason that IWD2EE means IWDEE has to sell very well, even better than previous EEs to make up for the level of engine work required. So, not impossible, but not a sure thing either. Good news for Planescape fans though, their code is closer to BG apparently.
I always hated the fact that IWD2 doesn't have any kind of 3D acceleration and thus no alpha transparency... only dithering (mainly visible in fog of war and with certain spells). In general it just doesn't look as good as its older brethren.
I just checked the GOG version and it does seem to have 3D Acceleration. At least there's an option for it in the ini file, whether that actually works or not.
Sorry to rain on the parade without any proof and then leave. Yes there was that interview and a couple comments about the 2 to 3 rules differences that further complicate the process.
I am glad IWD is happening, maybe what we see next will be in the vein of Pillars of Eternity where the overhaul guys make something new within or outside of Faerun.
I always hated the fact that IWD2 doesn't have any kind of 3D acceleration and thus no alpha transparency... only dithering (mainly visible in fog of war and with certain spells). In general it just doesn't look as good as its older brethren.
I just checked the GOG version and it does seem to have 3D Acceleration. At least there's an option for it in the ini file, whether that actually works or not.
I know this will never happen, but I so badly want to be able to join the Legion of the Chimera in Icewind Dale II:EE! Especially as an Half-Orc, Tiefling, Duergar, or Drow for that matter. Their goal to create a save haven for the so-called "monster" races always was very noble in my eyes.
The Legion of the Chimera was mainly about half-breeds, not "monster races." It is led by
two half-devils, includes other high-ranking half-fiends(Slayer Knights of Xvim) and half-dragons. Then it has the usual half-elves, half-orcs, half-goblins, various humanoids, etc. It has allied itself with human-snake hybrids and drow-spider hybrids. Its symbol, a chimera, is a hybrid as well.
I always hated the fact that IWD2 doesn't have any kind of 3D acceleration and thus no alpha transparency... only dithering (mainly visible in fog of war and with certain spells). In general it just doesn't look as good as its older brethren.
I just checked the GOG version and it does seem to have 3D Acceleration. At least there's an option for it in the ini file, whether that actually works or not.
I seem to recall it being added in a patch.
Not that Black Isle ever made, at least. I don't have the GOG version but I would very surprised that anyone could have managed to add that back in without access to the source code. Black Isle just cut the OpenGL code out due to time constraints, as far as I know. Unless the functionality is somehow dormant in the code and could be secretly activated for all this time...
If anyone can take a screenshot of IWD2 with OpenGL showing the smooth fog-of-war transitions then I'm buying the GOG version NOW.
The Legion of the Chimera was mainly about half-breeds, not "monster races." It is led by
two half-devils, includes other high-ranking half-fiends(Slayer Knights of Xvim) and half-dragons. Then it has the usual half-elves, half-orcs, half-goblins, various humanoids, etc. It has allied itself with human-snake hybrids and drow-spider hybrids. Its symbol, a chimera, is a hybrid as well.
Orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, ogres, and bugbears are all "monster races."
JS: Do you plan to follow this up with Icewind Dale II: EE?
TO: If Icewind Dale is a brother or sister to the Baldur's Gate games in terms of code and gameplay differences, Icewind Dale II and Planescape: Torment are more like third cousins. You can see the lineage, but the changes are deep. At this point we haven't gone spelunking too deep into those changes, but we are aware of many differences which will drive up the effort to do our thing on those projects. We hope to do more spleunking once we finish up with the 1.3 Updates for Baldur's Gate: EE and Baldur's Gate II: EE and ship Icewind Dale: EE.
JS: Without getting too technical, what is the nature of differences between Icewind Dale II and Icewind Dale? Any specific examples of challenges that have to be overcome?
TO: Icewind Dale II implemented the 3rd Edition rules and has a completely different UI scheme. We're really not sure how deep those changes run. The move to 3rd Edition rules would invalidate all the character classes and require a pretty thorough rework of the entire game to bring in the features from our Infinity Plus Engine. At minimum, nightmares abound.
I don't plan on playing IWD2EE because I liked 2e so much better than 3e.
Completely agree with this. This was not the only weakness with IWD2 however.
Of all the infinity engine games this was my least favorite by a WIDE margin.
Overall the game felt rushed, the way experience worked, making more and more monster spawns at high levels, some of the idiotic items (some items had a 1% chance to proc on attack.....yes 1%)
Something about the story just seemed really Clichéd to me, especially the twins.
AND throw in preloaded no stat rolls and no 2e, play any race/class no races had class distinctions, the whole thing was a really easy, homogenized and un-fun experience and at the highest difficulty settings.
Overall the game felt rushed, the way experience worked, making more and more monster spawns at high levels, some of the idiotic items (some items had a 1% chance to proc on attack.....yes 1%)
Something about the story just seemed really Clichéd to me, especially the twins.
AND throw in preloaded no stat rolls and no 2e, play any race/class no races had class distinctions, the whole thing was a really easy, homogenized and un-fun experience and at the highest difficulty settings.
Kinda funny cause, other than the inferior story (which I still found pretty cool, the flavour dialogues for kits/classes was easily the best in IWD2), I'd that everything else is done significantly better in IWD2... especially the action bar.
Overall the game felt rushed, the way experience worked, making more and more monster spawns at high levels, some of the idiotic items (some items had a 1% chance to proc on attack.....yes 1%)
The game only spawns extra monsters if you have gained a lot more XP than is expected for the stage of the game, either through exploits or having a smaller party. The first Icewind Dale had huge monster spawns, too. It's in the spirit of the original game and meant to keep solo artists from dominating the game by being overleveled.
You typically only have a 5% chance to crit, so what's the problem with a random loot item to have a 1% chance to do something? Most IWD2 items do things 25%, 5%, or 50% of the time. Items that only proc at 1% probably likewise represent 1% of the items.
AND throw in preloaded no stat rolls and no 2e, play any race/class no races had class distinctions, the whole thing was a really easy, homogenized and un-fun experience and at the highest difficulty settings.
BG-style rolls are largely a pointless exercise of patience for your preferred stats, and function as 1-for-1 point buy with a random pool of points. 3E's feats, skills, and wider class options encourage variety and difference. If anything, 2E is much more homogeneous.
AND throw in preloaded no stat rolls and no 2e, play any race/class no races had class distinctions, the whole thing was a really easy, homogenized and un-fun experience and at the highest difficulty settings.
About the difficulty, I will say that IWD2 had the hardest final boss of any IE game.
Comments
As it happens, I have studied so much literature that I find it difficult to read any novel without seeing behind the curtain.
I have yet to see any reason why IWD2EE couldn't happen.
I am glad IWD is happening, maybe what we see next will be in the vein of Pillars of Eternity where the overhaul guys make something new within or outside of Faerun.
If anyone can take a screenshot of IWD2 with OpenGL showing the smooth fog-of-war transitions then I'm buying the GOG version NOW.
http://www.rpgamer.com/games/icewind/icewindee/icewindeeint.html
But I still hope the registration of http://icewinddaleii.com domain on 2014-09-02 means they will indeed try to look if they can do it.
Of all the infinity engine games this was my least favorite by a WIDE margin.
Overall the game felt rushed, the way experience worked, making more and more monster spawns at high levels, some of the idiotic items (some items had a 1% chance to proc on attack.....yes 1%)
Something about the story just seemed really Clichéd to me, especially the twins.
AND throw in preloaded no stat rolls and no 2e, play any race/class no races had class distinctions, the whole thing was a really easy, homogenized and un-fun experience and at the highest difficulty settings.
You typically only have a 5% chance to crit, so what's the problem with a random loot item to have a 1% chance to do something? Most IWD2 items do things 25%, 5%, or 50% of the time. Items that only proc at 1% probably likewise represent 1% of the items. BG-style rolls are largely a pointless exercise of patience for your preferred stats, and function as 1-for-1 point buy with a random pool of points. 3E's feats, skills, and wider class options encourage variety and difference. If anything, 2E is much more homogeneous.