If someone would be so kind to explain to me what are these "game breaking bugs" that the OP is talking about?
@Finellach, you can find a list of known and consolidated bugs for BGII:EE here. The list includes also 15 level A bugs, i.e. crashes and bugs that stop the progression of the entire game.
Bear in mind that those are just the consolidated ones, the actual amount of bugs is bound to be even greater.
If someone would be so kind to explain to me what are these "game breaking bugs" that the OP is talking about? I've played both games and besides some minor issues I haven't encountered anything that could be described in such manner. Before someone accuses me...I am not taking any sides...I am just curious.
I posted a top-of-my-head list in March pleading for a bugfix patch, all of which I have personally encountered and which especially on the ipad are critical sinceyou can't use the console.
I've completed the game on iPad, there was certainly nothing "game breaking". It has a few glitches, but it's all small stuff. The game can easily be completed.
I've completed the game on iPad, there was certainly nothing "game breaking". It has a few glitches, but it's all small stuff. The game can easily be completed.
@atcDave, I didn't get the flu this year, but this doesn't mean that the flu doesn't exist.
Finellach, you can find a list of known and consolidated bugs for BGII:EE here. The list includes also 15 level A bugs, i.e. crashes and bugs that stop the progression of the entire game.
Bear in mind that those are just the consolidated ones, the actual amount of bugs is bound to be even greater.
Well, basically, all the vanilla bugs are counted in the bug tracker too, which means that around 2300 issues aren't from the EE, and those are the fixed ones and the serious ones. Vanilla BG2 had more than a single level A bug--it crashed when you used Magical Fire damage, for example, it also crashed when you used opcode 177 on a container, and I am not mentioning the sporadic crashes during long ToB combats (which I never experienced in the EE)--and it also had lots of minor engine bugs that modders can't normally fix.
While I agree that maybe taking over IWD:EE _right now_ is something huge, and that they should focus on BG2:EE, I won't say any of the EEs has more bugs than the originals, not even they had the same amount of bugs. Besides almost all of the level A bugs are in the new content--not in the vanilla game (one of them is new to the EE, but it's because of an engine change regarding how inventory handles items, now it doesn't crash anymore when you have a two-handed weapon and a Shield, but instead it crashes when you have equipped a non-equipment item), or in both (like the one with the Astral Prison and Haer'Dalis)--so I don't know why people say it's buggier than the originals.
It seems to me that the really persistent detractors who are here in the forums every day making argument after argument against Beamdog must really want Beamdog's products just like the rest of us, but are very frustrated, impatient, and disappointed with the quality for the reasons they keep saying.
Otherwise, why do they keep coming here every day? The anti-Beamdog arguments and points have all been made, and the counterarguments and defenses have all been made. If you buy a product and don't like it, the normal thing is to make one or two complaints to see if the company you bought it from will fix it, then eventually move on and not buy anything else from that company if they don't. But you don't keep at them every day for months, reminding them daily that "Hey, I'm not going to buy anything else from you, I'm not satisfied, and I don't believe you when you say you're working on it", unless the truth is that you really, really want that product. You just want them to fix the quality of it, yesterday.
I guess emotional venting is part of it. But do the complainers want the company to fail, out of some kind of vindictiveness or schadenfreude? I doubt that.
Do the daily complainers think that if they complain often enough and vehemently enough, they can get the company to change in a way that the company will improve the products faster, and they will get to enjoy the products fixed to the quality they desire? Maybe.
Beamdog's representatives say they hear the complaints, they are addressing and fine-tuning quality control, and repairs are being made, as well as new products being developed for their customers to enjoy. We will get our BG2:EE v. 1.3 in time. It's a legitimate complaint that it's taken too long. But I for one, am willing to be patient. And, I think Beamdog has been very accommodating toward negative opinions and feedback through interactions with this forum.
I've completed the game on iPad, there was certainly nothing "game breaking". It has a few glitches, but it's all small stuff. The game can easily be completed.
@atcDave, I didn't get the flu this year, but this doesn't mean that the flu doesn't exist.
Perhaps some people say its buggier than the originals because it fits in with a certain narrative, just as some people maintain BG2EE is almost unplayable because of 'game breaking bugs'.
Meanwhile some other people have been playing the game, and having a jolly good time doing so!
so I don't know why people say it's buggier than the originals.
@CrevsDaak, because it's true. For your own admission, BGII:EE has most of the vanilla bugs, plus an huge amount of his own, mainly concerning the new content. Besides, it's not just a matter of numbers. It is the effect of the bugs on gameplay that matters the most.
The average user will be more annoyed by broken quests, for example, than the impossibility to use opcode 177 on a container.
The most annoying bugs in the original game have been fixed after 15 years by the modding community, sometimes with hacks to overcome the engine limitations (just consider what TobEx allows to do; most of its features are not even available in BGII:EE yet). The remaining bugs combined have an impact on gameplay, if any, much smaller than most of the BGII:EE bugs.
And, I think Beamdog has been very accommodating toward negative opinions and feedback through interactions with this forum.
Far more than they should be, honestly, considering it's the same handful of people posting the same gripes/snark every single day.
If we're all honest, even the biggest Beamdog fans would probably tell you that over 9 months with no fixes being implemented is simply poor..very poor, in fact. It's certainly how I feel, but I am not in a huge hurry so I'm fine waiting it out.
For the life of me though, I just cannot understand how submitting essentially the same posts so often is helping anyone or anything. It detracts from the board and it should be obvious by now that it's not expediting the process.
If someone would be so kind to explain to me what are these "game breaking bugs" that the OP is talking about?
@Finellach, you can find a list of known and consolidated bugs for BGII:EE here. The list includes also 15 level A bugs, i.e. crashes and bugs that stop the progression of the entire game.
Bear in mind that those are just the consolidated ones, the actual amount of bugs is bound to be even greater.
And none of these are "game breaking" as the OP so dramatically put it. Sure these bugs may be quite annoying coupled with the long wait but honestly if all these issues are known and it is said they will be addressed in time what is the point of posting the same thing over and over again and all this on a totally unrelated forum?
Vanilla BG1&2 had their share of "level A" bugs too (that is an understatement) and they were never addressed or even acknowledged. I would know since I was there playing these games almost from the day they were released. They were all fixed eventually but not by the devs of the game but by the community itself...Baldurash f.e. At least Beamdog acknowledged it and said they are working on it...and no I am not some "Beamdog fanboy" or anything...I am just saying this is just a game so being impatient or even outright negative or rude won't achieve anything except frustration not only for the OP but also for other users participating on the forums as well.
In addition to working with Beamdog, I also spend some time as the lead on a small, niche project you've probably never heard of known as the BG2 Fixpack. I'm grateful that we continue to get constructive criticism and that the passion for the games, Enhanced or not, continues to run strong.
I've completed the game on iPad, there was certainly nothing "game breaking". It has a few glitches, but it's all small stuff. The game can easily be completed.
@atcDave, I didn't get the flu this year, but this doesn't mean that the flu doesn't exist.
I didn't get the flu this year either. But then I don't go around flaming my doctor because other people got it.
At the end of the day, any software is going to have issues. The more you play a game, the more you are going to see. Are there bugs? Sure. Could they have done better at fixing them? Maybe. Are people justified in being upset about what they perceive they paid for? Probably. Do any of the posts on this thread accurately represent the inner workings of Beamdog? Most likely not.
My personal vote is I am happy that IWD:EE is in the works and Yes, I think it is a good idea. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, ill conceived or not.
@Erg sorry but I never saw a Mac compatible version of TobEx nor one that would actually have more engine features than the EEs. TobEx and the EE have very different features when it comes to the game's engine, and most of TobEx's features and fixes are into the game.
The average user will be more annoyed by broken quests, for example, than the impossibility to use opcode 177 on a container.
If we're going to talk about the average user, then I could also say the average user is also going to be bothered by the amount of bugs in vanilla *and* the average user isn't the type of user that would be actually installing mods to fix their game. So I don't really see the point here, besides that the EEs' new content is buggy.
Thanks @CamDawg. At least now I know that I should give up any hope that the Enhanced Edition will ever be any good.
Carry on.
BGIIEE had a couple hundred fixes beyond what was available in BG2FP at its launch. Those outweigh the regressions introduced or the bugs in the new content and features. The patches have simply continued that trend.
In no way does that mean that we've stopped working on bugs, or that we're satisfied with the bug level where it is now.
BGIIEE had a couple hundred fixes beyond what was available in BG2FP at its launch. Those outweigh the regressions introduced or the bugs in the new content and features.
No, they don't.
As I tried to explain, not all bugs have a similar impact on gameplay. You can't simply say two bugs are worse than one, just because they are double the amount. A single bug may be worse than a thousand.
The fact that you don't realise that, it's reason enough for me to give up any hope on the Enhanced Edition. On the bright side the devs will not receive any more complaints from me.
I think what Pete means is that they outnumber them, not that they're somehow less important.
In any case, @Erg, it's up to you what you decide to do with your time. But we do intend to keep working on these games until they're as polished as we can make them.
BGIIEE had a couple hundred fixes beyond what was available in BG2FP at its launch. Those outweigh the regressions introduced or the bugs in the new content and features.
As I tried to explain, not all bugs have a similar impact on gameplay. You can't simply say two bugs are worse than one, just because they are double the amount. A single bug may be worse than a thousand.
@Erg correct me if I'm wrong (maybe I didn't remember it correctly), but do you complaining about BG2:EE while actually don't own the game?:) Are you bitching at it based on experience of others?
I'm asking cause it just occurred to me, that you wrote somewhere, you bought BG:EE, but not BG2:EE.
@Erg correct me if I'm wrong (maybe I didn't remember it correctly), but do you complaining about BG2:EE while actually don't own the game?:) Are you bitching at it based on experience of others?
I'm asking cause it just occurred to me, that you wrote somewhere, you bought BG:EE, but not BG2:EE.
Just asking, no pun intended:)
Yes, I do not own BGII:EE, and most likely never will, from what I'm reading here.
That doesn't mean I can't read and understand bug reports or complaints from people that own the game. Most of those complaints have been confirmed as legitimate by the developers themselves.
Except none of those bugs are serious! The current state of EE is the best BG2 has ever been. It's beautiful, it plays and loads fast, it has many built in ease of use features. It is the best version of BG2 there has been, and it will only get better with more patches.
Any accusations of "game breaking" are silly hyperbole.
Comments
Bear in mind that those are just the consolidated ones, the actual amount of bugs is bound to be even greater.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/475205#Comment_475205
While I agree that maybe taking over IWD:EE _right now_ is something huge, and that they should focus on BG2:EE, I won't say any of the EEs has more bugs than the originals, not even they had the same amount of bugs. Besides almost all of the level A bugs are in the new content--not in the vanilla game (one of them is new to the EE, but it's because of an engine change regarding how inventory handles items, now it doesn't crash anymore when you have a two-handed weapon and a Shield, but instead it crashes when you have equipped a non-equipment item), or in both (like the one with the Astral Prison and Haer'Dalis)--so I don't know why people say it's buggier than the originals.
Otherwise, why do they keep coming here every day? The anti-Beamdog arguments and points have all been made, and the counterarguments and defenses have all been made. If you buy a product and don't like it, the normal thing is to make one or two complaints to see if the company you bought it from will fix it, then eventually move on and not buy anything else from that company if they don't. But you don't keep at them every day for months, reminding them daily that "Hey, I'm not going to buy anything else from you, I'm not satisfied, and I don't believe you when you say you're working on it", unless the truth is that you really, really want that product. You just want them to fix the quality of it, yesterday.
I guess emotional venting is part of it. But do the complainers want the company to fail, out of some kind of vindictiveness or schadenfreude? I doubt that.
Do the daily complainers think that if they complain often enough and vehemently enough, they can get the company to change in a way that the company will improve the products faster, and they will get to enjoy the products fixed to the quality they desire? Maybe.
Beamdog's representatives say they hear the complaints, they are addressing and fine-tuning quality control, and repairs are being made, as well as new products being developed for their customers to enjoy. We will get our BG2:EE v. 1.3 in time. It's a legitimate complaint that it's taken too long. But I for one, am willing to be patient. And, I think Beamdog has been very accommodating toward negative opinions and feedback through interactions with this forum.
Meanwhile some other people have been playing the game, and having a jolly good time doing so!
"Why do we always come here? I guess we'll never know. It's like a form of torture, to have to watch this show!"
The average user will be more annoyed by broken quests, for example, than the impossibility to use opcode 177 on a container.
The most annoying bugs in the original game have been fixed after 15 years by the modding community, sometimes with hacks to overcome the engine limitations (just consider what TobEx allows to do; most of its features are not even available in BGII:EE yet). The remaining bugs combined have an impact on gameplay, if any, much smaller than most of the BGII:EE bugs.
If we're all honest, even the biggest Beamdog fans would probably tell you that over 9 months with no fixes being implemented is simply poor..very poor, in fact. It's certainly how I feel, but I am not in a huge hurry so I'm fine waiting it out.
For the life of me though, I just cannot understand how submitting essentially the same posts so often is helping anyone or anything. It detracts from the board and it should be obvious by now that it's not expediting the process.
Vanilla BG1&2 had their share of "level A" bugs too (that is an understatement) and they were never addressed or even acknowledged. I would know since I was there playing these games almost from the day they were released. They were all fixed eventually but not by the devs of the game but by the community itself...Baldurash f.e. At least Beamdog acknowledged it and said they are working on it...and no I am not some "Beamdog fanboy" or anything...I am just saying this is just a game so being impatient or even outright negative or rude won't achieve anything except frustration not only for the OP but also for other users participating on the forums as well.
At the end of the day, any software is going to have issues. The more you play a game, the more you are going to see. Are there bugs? Sure. Could they have done better at fixing them? Maybe. Are people justified in being upset about what they perceive they paid for? Probably. Do any of the posts on this thread accurately represent the inner workings of Beamdog? Most likely not.
My personal vote is I am happy that IWD:EE is in the works and Yes, I think it is a good idea. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, ill conceived or not.
Can you really honestly say that at the moment BGII:EE has less bugs than a fully patched modded BG2?
Edit1: Of course I meant modded not patched
Edit2: I was ninja'd by @CamDawg while editing.
Can you really honestly say that at the moment BGII:EE has less bugs than a fully modded BG2?
Carry on.
In no way does that mean that we've stopped working on bugs, or that we're satisfied with the bug level where it is now.
As I tried to explain, not all bugs have a similar impact on gameplay. You can't simply say two bugs are worse than one, just because they are double the amount. A single bug may be worse than a thousand.
The fact that you don't realise that, it's reason enough for me to give up any hope on the Enhanced Edition. On the bright side the devs will not receive any more complaints from me.
In any case, @Erg, it's up to you what you decide to do with your time. But we do intend to keep working on these games until they're as polished as we can make them.
I'm asking cause it just occurred to me, that you wrote somewhere, you bought BG:EE, but not BG2:EE.
Just asking, no pun intended:)
That doesn't mean I can't read and understand bug reports or complaints from people that own the game. Most of those complaints have been confirmed as legitimate by the developers themselves.
Any accusations of "game breaking" are silly hyperbole.