I remember a time when a guy posted an thread that hade the title "Why Planescape: Torment is a bad game" or something like that.
My frist reaction was enter in the thread and prepare a huge amount of offenses and flames to throw at the guy and his entire line of ancestors, then i read what he wrote.
The title didn't helped much, but serious, that was one of the more eloquent and coherent arguments i even saw, and while i entirely disagreed with him (except for the crap combat system of PS:T) i find no will in my mind to deliver a single insult against the guy.
Sometimes criticize no matter how polite are, infuse others with rage and outrage, even happened with me (and ppl who know me from the begin of this forum understand what i'm saying, sincerely i don't know how no one banned me in that time).
Speaking of which, just got now an nostalgic memory of @Edwinodesseiron, the best flamer this forum ever had! Ah good times those ones !
There are things I dislike about BGEE/BG2EE, from trigger-happy modding to politically-correct NPC misfits to unexpected bugs. And my distaste is such that I am unwilling to spend on future Beamdog games unless I am REALLY impressed or I am prodded to do so by friends. However, to each his own, and I have better things to do than to stir the pot and try to rally everyone to my cause.
If I do not like a game, I vote with my wallet and move on. There is no need to be a self-appointed prophet of doom and spoil the party for others.
There are things I dislike about BGEE/BG2EE, from trigger-happy modding to politically-correct NPC misfits to unexpected bugs. And my distaste is such that I am unwilling to spend on future Beamdog games unless I am REALLY impressed or I am prodded to do so by friends. However, to each his own, and I have better things to do than to stir the pot and try to rally everyone to my cause.
If I do not like a game, I vote with my wallet and move on. There is no need to be a self-appointed prophet of doom and spoil the party for others.
In Overhaul's defense, if the NPCs in EE were "politically correct," the bisexual and the lesbian NPCs wouldn't be wholly evil murderers. Also, bugs happen. All you can do is tweak the game so less obvious or serious bugs happen instead. Out of curiosity, what does "trigger-happy modding" even mean?
Noted, but there's no need for a response from me. You're not obligated to defend Beamdog, and I'm not obligated to explain myself. My post was in response to the OP, and let it remain as that.
There are quite a few things i don't like, about the IWD:EE.
Argumentation is -mostly- useless in such cases. Am i going to start liking it after we argue? Do you really care to support the company? Why? Are you hoping to prove i don't find it interesting for a "wrong" reason maybe? We don't really need to convince each other. This is my personal view and nothing more.
I'm not talking about the obvious troll posts that mostly bring hate and nothing else, but about people like me, that don't really see this "BG3" in the near future coming, if ever.
I supported BG:EE and BG2:EE by buying them, although i played for a very short time.
However, i did say on a poll about a theoritical IWD:EE, that i would like to see enhanced graphics to substanciate a desire for me to purchase the game.
This, of course, cannot happen, and i don't really care about why. The result matters, not the reason.
I don't want to spend 19.99$ this time, to buy something that i won't play, just to support a company, any company, no matter how likeable they are as people.
The enhancements are mostly done by BG2:EE builds in the engine, i'm not seeing anything new, and i have already played IWD in the past. This is a port, for those that will enjoy it.
It's pretty obvious that a small company will opt to not waste resources on new art, if the old isn't available, and keep said resources for a potential new title of them, that would inevitably include new art.
I wish you good luck on your effort, although i will not support IWD:EE this time.
You can be sure however, that the moment i see some graphical enhancements, particularly of the character models that i evidently outgrew, (maybe because of seeing them 13292847928 times each and because they are so dated and badly made), i will be here to support the product(s) financially.
Peace.
P.S. I still can't believe you ditched the original BG sprites, because they wouldn't dual wield. I mean, they were not even included in the files somewhere, so we don't have to do round-about ways to see them, that don't even work in the end, at least for me.
@Mornmagor You're totally welcome to not buy the game if you don't want it. As much as we'd love for people to buy one, two, or fifty-thousand copies of all our games out of nothing but good will, we'd much rather people play and enjoy them.
That being said, I do believe there's a fair amount to look forward to with IWD:EE. But I definitely won't hold it against you if you intend to hang on to your hard-earned money to spend on a game you're really looking forward to.
@Mornmagor New quests, new items. There are pretty much the same amount of new things as the EE games. And, as they did with the EEs, more new kits may be added.
That said, anybody who tells you to 'support the company' by buying a game you just don't want to play, is an idiot.
But, the BG sprites sucked. Good riddance. There, I said it.
@Mornmagor New quests, new items. There are pretty much the same amount of new things as the EE games. And, as they did with the EEs, more new kits may be added.
That said, anybody who tells you to 'support the company' by buying a game you just don't want to play, is an idiot.
But, the BG sprites sucked. Good riddance. There, I said it.
But... having Shar-Teel fight in that ridiculous bathing suit!
Thats why she had 17 dex, so she could fight unemcumbered... Mmm...
*never quite figured out why his PC was horribly murdered in the night*
I'd like to pre-order, but my e-mail has changed. I'm unable to modify it on the BeamDog website, so it's possible I won't get a badge. I've been able to change my e-mail on the forum, but I think both need to match to get a badge.
There are quite a few things i don't like, about the IWD:EE.
Argumentation is -mostly- useless in such cases. Am i going to start liking it after we argue? Do you really care to support the company? Why? Are you hoping to prove i don't find it interesting for a "wrong" reason maybe? We don't really need to convince each other. This is my personal view and nothing more.
I'm not talking about the obvious troll posts that mostly bring hate and nothing else, but about people like me, that don't really see this "BG3" in the near future coming, if ever.
I supported BG:EE and BG2:EE by buying them, although i played for a very short time.
However, i did say on a poll about a theoritical IWD:EE, that i would like to see enhanced graphics to substanciate a desire for me to purchase the game.
This, of course, cannot happen, and i don't really care about why. The result matters, not the reason.
I don't want to spend 19.99$ this time, to buy something that i won't play, just to support a company, any company, no matter how likeable they are as people.
The enhancements are mostly done by BG2:EE builds in the engine, i'm not seeing anything new, and i have already played IWD in the past. This is a port, for those that will enjoy it.
It's pretty obvious that a small company will opt to not waste resources on new art, if the old isn't available, and keep said resources for a potential new title of them, that would inevitably include new art.
I wish you good luck on your effort, although i will not support IWD:EE this time.
You can be sure however, that the moment i see some graphical enhancements, particularly of the character models that i evidently outgrew, (maybe because of seeing them 13292847928 times each and because they are so dated and badly made), i will be here to support the product(s) financially.
Peace.
P.S. I still can't believe you ditched the original BG sprites, because they wouldn't dual wield. I mean, they were not even included in the files somewhere, so we don't have to do round-about ways to see them, that don't even work in the end, at least for me.
Well, we can't please everyone simultaneously. Some want patches for existing products, some want more enhanced vanilla and some want new content. I can only say, Overhaul works at a greater pace than 2 years ago. If you don't see progress in what you see, you might as well suspect that some resources were spent on something else too. Probably you heard about Adventure Y ? You are correct that artistic resources come slowly, and of them, character sprites are the worst.
I just don't see, why would we keep the original BG sprites if you say these sprites are 'so dated and badly made'. BG2 sprites at least could dual wield, which we need.
Or PM me with your beamdog email, and I'll update your account there to match.
I did. On August 31, 2014.
Same general experience here, BTW. Both e-mails/messages I've sent on badges over the past year or so have been ignored, and no mail I've sent to the Beamdog contact address on this or other issues has ever been answered -- EVER. I like you guys and your products, but you're not exactly, um, chatty...
I do not know why people feel the need to say that they will not buy the game because it does not have this and that. This is not a new game, this is an old game that has already been completed. And as such is great. Better than 99% of today's titles that kids play. My only expectations of it are that it has a higher resolution support and is compatible with the new hardware. And that's it.
Pre-EE, if anyone wished to make changes to his game installation, he could look for a mod from among the dozens out there, or perhaps even write one on his own. I initially thought that EE was primarily about updating the game for new hardware, providing a bug-free experience out of the box, and making modding easier. Basically, rework the inner workings of the game so that the modding community can take it up from here.
Instead, it seemed that Beamdog had to entertain feature requests and even introduced some new content of its own. On hindsight, this was probably not a good idea. BG is a huge and incredibly complex game and introducing extensive new content that seeks to fit in this behemoth is sure to cause grief, especially if resources are tight and the immensity of this undertaking is underestimated.
Looking at the reviews, there was criticism regarding the new content. As a player, I disliked the content and would have preferred if the game was left alone. New powers (including using BG2 mechanics for BG1 - that really screwed up weapon proficiencies), items and monsters disrupted the original game in a way that I had no control over - if I want my game modded, then I want to choose how it is done. Even if the game had its share of imbalances, there was no need to introduce further disruption to the mix. Two wrongs don't make a right, and I believe in "first, do no harm".
Now, looking at the list of bugs here, a large number of them are tagged to the new content. Without the new content, these bugs wouldn't have existed... bugs that would bedevil players more than one year on. It is fallacious to say that more bugs will be found when patches are made, because if properly patched, the game should have progressively fewer bugs instead of more, and these are bugs that are specific to the new content.
In short, the new content was a self-inflicted injury that could have been mitigated if the original plan had not been so ambitious. Also, I felt there was lack of clarity about the role that Beamdog was supposed to play in relation to the gaming community - if the remake was to help facilitate modding, then leave the modifications to modders who are better positioned to debug their own content and which Beamdog need not be held responsible for.
To be fair, Beamdog had to thread a needle here - it probably had to introduce enough new content to interest buyers, yet not allocate too much scarce resources that could have been better used to create a new product. On that count, I think the critics should cut them some slack. Sure, things did not turn out to be ideal, but we all make mistakes and appreciate some slack every now and then.
BG (and 2E AD&D) holds a special place in my heart, and now that Beamdog is the flagbearer, I would very much like to see Beamdog succeed. It does me no good if Beamdog goes out of business and the games go back to the state a few years ago, left for dead out there. Seriously, existing bugs should be patched asap (can modders help?). A game with game-breaking bugs for more than a year after release despite two or three major patches is simply not ready for prime time - would a rational customer buy a defective product with the expectation that he has to apply workarounds indefinitely?
Moving on, hopefully there will be FEWER EE games, because it is no good to keep retreading old paths. I would rather see an entirely new game in the grand tradition of BG and AD&D instead of remakes all the time. Marvel struck gold with Guardians of the Galaxy despite it being a relatively unknown series of comics. May Beamdog find its Guardians too. Good luck.
I do not know why people feel the need to say that they will not buy the game because it does not have this and that. This is not a new game, this is an old game that has already been completed. And as such is great. Better than 99% of today's titles that kids play. My only expectations of it are that it has a higher resolution support and is compatible with the new hardware. And that's it.
You said your expectations, and so did i.
I understand that people don't like reading negative comments, but it's still a form of feedback.
Enhanced Editions will only get you so far, and after some point, you will need something more.
I certainly don't see the IWD enhancements costing 19,99$, and if i wanted compatibility with new hardware(which BG:EE didn't even have at full for a long time), there is already a compatible version out. As is a high resolution mod.
They were not exactly bug free either.
I can't talk about "Adventure Y", because i have no idea what it is about. It could be something remarkable for all i know.
It feels like paying for the same things you paid for BG:EE and BG2:EE content, except what, some more questlines and items?
I don't get it. (People with mac, ipads and android are a different issue however, and they might be more interested).
Yeah, i want Beamdog to succeed as well, that's why i bought the first two enhanced editions. I just don't care for this particular enhancement.
And when i say succeed, i don't want people to remember Beamdog as "the guys that enhanced Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale", but as "the guys that made BG3"(or something equivalent).
I'd just like to say that bugs in the added content do NOT make the game buggier than the original.
Its like if I order a burger that is not cooked enough. Then the next time I order a burger that is perfectly cooked but I also get additional fries that are slightly burned. My second burger is STILL better than the last time. Fairly simple concept.
I'd just like to say that bugs in the added content do NOT make the game buggier than the original.
Its like if I order a burger that is not cooked enough. Then the next time I order a burger that is perfectly cooked but I also get additional fries that are slightly burned. My second burger is STILL better than the last time. Fairly simple concept.
Was going to let this pass, but the logic is so faulty that I couldn't resist. LOL
Just as you do not get a second game EE in addition to BG, you are not getting fries in addition to your burger. A more accurate description is that you added an extra piece of meat to a great burger... and that extra piece of meat turned out to be undercooked. So you ended up with a bad burger that could have been great if the extra piece of meat had been properly cooked.
That is such a horrible analogy its not even funny. You can simply avoid new content if it is too buggy. It isn't that hard. In fact, they made it quite easy by tying it all to the new NPCs. Just avoid talking to Neera, Dorn, Rasaad or Hexxat. Or when they approach you just be like "no thank you". Or you can just do what I did and kill Dorn on sight.
Sorry, but there is no way you can convince me that the new content (which I have been pretty critical of, BTW) in any way takes away from the existing game. You know that game you liked? It's still there. Everything you got in Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal you get in BG2EE... except it is way, way better.
In Baldur's Gate 1 you get a few changes in rules due to the updated that you may not like... but its not like that was a super secret confidential piece of information. Beamdog pretty much said they were changing the engine up front. If you bought the game expecting it to not be what was advertised, that is your problem, not the developers.
That is such a horrible analogy its not even funny. You can simply avoid new content if it is too buggy. It isn't that hard. In fact, they made it quite easy by tying it all to the new NPCs. Just avoid talking to Neera, Dorn, Rasaad or Hexxat. Or when they approach you just be like "no thank you". Or you can just do what I did and kill Dorn on sight.
You can take out the uncooked meat from the burger if you don't like it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's uncooked.
Sorry, but there is no way you can convince me that the new content (which I have been pretty critical of, BTW) in any way takes away from the existing game. You know that game you liked? It's still there. Everything you got in Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal you get in BG2EE... except it is way, way better.
Many of us are personally invested in the game succeeding, so if you struggle with the logic here I can accept that.
In Baldur's Gate 1 you get a few changes in rules due to the updated that you may not like... but its not like that was a super secret confidential piece of information. Beamdog pretty much said they were changing the engine up front. If you bought the game expecting it to not be what was advertised, that is your problem, not the developers.
Changing the engine sounds good. Changing the engine without modifications for the original game environment... not so great.
Your belligerence is typical of a "circle the wagons" attitude. If the most ardent supporters of EE are going to turn on the "take it or shove it" mode on moderate critics among the fanbase without thoughtful consideration of the criticism, all that you are going to achieve is just to whittle down the already limited fanbase and make it even harder for the games to succeed. After all, you can flame all you want, but you don't control our wallets
Comments
My frist reaction was enter in the thread and prepare a huge amount of offenses and flames to throw at the guy and his entire line of ancestors, then i read what he wrote.
The title didn't helped much, but serious, that was one of the more eloquent and coherent arguments i even saw, and while i entirely disagreed with him (except for the crap combat system of PS:T) i find no will in my mind to deliver a single insult against the guy.
Sometimes criticize no matter how polite are, infuse others with rage and outrage, even happened with me (and ppl who know me from the begin of this forum understand what i'm saying, sincerely i don't know how no one banned me in that time).
Speaking of which, just got now an nostalgic memory of @Edwinodesseiron, the best flamer this forum ever had! Ah good times those ones
If I do not like a game, I vote with my wallet and move on. There is no need to be a self-appointed prophet of doom and spoil the party for others.
Noted, but there's no need for a response from me. You're not obligated to defend Beamdog, and I'm not obligated to explain myself. My post was in response to the OP, and let it remain as that.
Argumentation is -mostly- useless in such cases. Am i going to start liking it after we argue? Do you really care to support the company? Why? Are you hoping to prove i don't find it interesting for a "wrong" reason maybe? We don't really need to convince each other. This is my personal view and nothing more.
I'm not talking about the obvious troll posts that mostly bring hate and nothing else, but about people like me, that don't really see this "BG3" in the near future coming, if ever.
I supported BG:EE and BG2:EE by buying them, although i played for a very short time.
However, i did say on a poll about a theoritical IWD:EE, that i would like to see enhanced graphics to substanciate a desire for me to purchase the game.
This, of course, cannot happen, and i don't really care about why. The result matters, not the reason.
I don't want to spend 19.99$ this time, to buy something that i won't play, just to support a company, any company, no matter how likeable they are as people.
The enhancements are mostly done by BG2:EE builds in the engine, i'm not seeing anything new, and i have already played IWD in the past. This is a port, for those that will enjoy it.
It's pretty obvious that a small company will opt to not waste resources on new art, if the old isn't available, and keep said resources for a potential new title of them, that would inevitably include new art.
I wish you good luck on your effort, although i will not support IWD:EE this time.
You can be sure however, that the moment i see some graphical enhancements, particularly of the character models that i evidently outgrew, (maybe because of seeing them 13292847928 times each and because they are so dated and badly made), i will be here to support the product(s) financially.
Peace.
P.S. I still can't believe you ditched the original BG sprites, because they wouldn't dual wield. I mean, they were not even included in the files somewhere, so we don't have to do round-about ways to see them, that don't even work in the end, at least for me.
That being said, I do believe there's a fair amount to look forward to with IWD:EE. But I definitely won't hold it against you if you intend to hang on to your hard-earned money to spend on a game you're really looking forward to.
New quests, new items. There are pretty much the same amount of new things as the EE games. And, as they did with the EEs, more new kits may be added.
That said, anybody who tells you to 'support the company' by buying a game you just don't want to play, is an idiot.
But, the BG sprites sucked. Good riddance. There, I said it.
Thats why she had 17 dex, so she could fight unemcumbered... Mmm...
*never quite figured out why his PC was horribly murdered in the night*
You are correct that artistic resources come slowly, and of them, character sprites are the worst.
I just don't see, why would we keep the original BG sprites if you say these sprites are 'so dated and badly made'. BG2 sprites at least could dual wield, which we need.
Pre-EE, if anyone wished to make changes to his game installation, he could look for a mod from among the dozens out there, or perhaps even write one on his own. I initially thought that EE was primarily about updating the game for new hardware, providing a bug-free experience out of the box, and making modding easier. Basically, rework the inner workings of the game so that the modding community can take it up from here.
Instead, it seemed that Beamdog had to entertain feature requests and even introduced some new content of its own. On hindsight, this was probably not a good idea. BG is a huge and incredibly complex game and introducing extensive new content that seeks to fit in this behemoth is sure to cause grief, especially if resources are tight and the immensity of this undertaking is underestimated.
Looking at the reviews, there was criticism regarding the new content. As a player, I disliked the content and would have preferred if the game was left alone. New powers (including using BG2 mechanics for BG1 - that really screwed up weapon proficiencies), items and monsters disrupted the original game in a way that I had no control over - if I want my game modded, then I want to choose how it is done. Even if the game had its share of imbalances, there was no need to introduce further disruption to the mix. Two wrongs don't make a right, and I believe in "first, do no harm".
Now, looking at the list of bugs here, a large number of them are tagged to the new content. Without the new content, these bugs wouldn't have existed... bugs that would bedevil players more than one year on. It is fallacious to say that more bugs will be found when patches are made, because if properly patched, the game should have progressively fewer bugs instead of more, and these are bugs that are specific to the new content.
In short, the new content was a self-inflicted injury that could have been mitigated if the original plan had not been so ambitious. Also, I felt there was lack of clarity about the role that Beamdog was supposed to play in relation to the gaming community - if the remake was to help facilitate modding, then leave the modifications to modders who are better positioned to debug their own content and which Beamdog need not be held responsible for.
To be fair, Beamdog had to thread a needle here - it probably had to introduce enough new content to interest buyers, yet not allocate too much scarce resources that could have been better used to create a new product. On that count, I think the critics should cut them some slack. Sure, things did not turn out to be ideal, but we all make mistakes and appreciate some slack every now and then.
BG (and 2E AD&D) holds a special place in my heart, and now that Beamdog is the flagbearer, I would very much like to see Beamdog succeed. It does me no good if Beamdog goes out of business and the games go back to the state a few years ago, left for dead out there. Seriously, existing bugs should be patched asap (can modders help?). A game with game-breaking bugs for more than a year after release despite two or three major patches is simply not ready for prime time - would a rational customer buy a defective product with the expectation that he has to apply workarounds indefinitely?
Moving on, hopefully there will be FEWER EE games, because it is no good to keep retreading old paths. I would rather see an entirely new game in the grand tradition of BG and AD&D instead of remakes all the time. Marvel struck gold with Guardians of the Galaxy despite it being a relatively unknown series of comics. May Beamdog find its Guardians too. Good luck.
I understand that people don't like reading negative comments, but it's still a form of feedback.
Enhanced Editions will only get you so far, and after some point, you will need something more.
I certainly don't see the IWD enhancements costing 19,99$, and if i wanted compatibility with new hardware(which BG:EE didn't even have at full for a long time), there is already a compatible version out. As is a high resolution mod.
They were not exactly bug free either.
I can't talk about "Adventure Y", because i have no idea what it is about. It could be something remarkable for all i know.
It feels like paying for the same things you paid for BG:EE and BG2:EE content, except what, some more questlines and items?
I don't get it. (People with mac, ipads and android are a different issue however, and they might be more interested).
Yeah, i want Beamdog to succeed as well, that's why i bought the first two enhanced editions. I just don't care for this particular enhancement.
And when i say succeed, i don't want people to remember Beamdog as "the guys that enhanced Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale", but as "the guys that made BG3"(or something equivalent).
Let's hope they get remembered for both.
Its like if I order a burger that is not cooked enough. Then the next time I order a burger that is perfectly cooked but I also get additional fries that are slightly burned. My second burger is STILL better than the last time. Fairly simple concept.
Just as you do not get a second game EE in addition to BG, you are not getting fries in addition to your burger. A more accurate description is that you added an extra piece of meat to a great burger... and that extra piece of meat turned out to be undercooked. So you ended up with a bad burger that could have been great if the extra piece of meat had been properly cooked.
Sorry, but there is no way you can convince me that the new content (which I have been pretty critical of, BTW) in any way takes away from the existing game. You know that game you liked? It's still there. Everything you got in Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal you get in BG2EE... except it is way, way better.
In Baldur's Gate 1 you get a few changes in rules due to the updated that you may not like... but its not like that was a super secret confidential piece of information. Beamdog pretty much said they were changing the engine up front. If you bought the game expecting it to not be what was advertised, that is your problem, not the developers.
Your belligerence is typical of a "circle the wagons" attitude. If the most ardent supporters of EE are going to turn on the "take it or shove it" mode on moderate critics among the fanbase without thoughtful consideration of the criticism, all that you are going to achieve is just to whittle down the already limited fanbase and make it even harder for the games to succeed. After all, you can flame all you want, but you don't control our wallets