Will this be the future of gaming? (article: EA on how to monetise gamers)
Kitteh_On_A_Cloud
Member Posts: 1,629
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-13-bioware-on-how-to-monetise-players-day-one-dlc-online-passes-micro-transactions
I don't know whether it has been discussed yet on these forums and I apologize if so. Anyway, after having read this article, I died a bit inside. I think it's horrible how the current gaming industry is so blatantly taking advantage of the passion of their fans and exploit all ways possible to make them fork out more money. Don't get me wrong, I would be all too willing to pay for expansion packs after the full game has been released, but only as long as it contains new content which is independent and ADDITIONAL to the main story in the full game, or extra customization packs or something similiar. What EA has done with ME 3, however, is downright wrong in my eyes. Anyway, I wanted to know if there were others who share my opinion. Please keep the discussion civil, thank you.
I don't know whether it has been discussed yet on these forums and I apologize if so. Anyway, after having read this article, I died a bit inside. I think it's horrible how the current gaming industry is so blatantly taking advantage of the passion of their fans and exploit all ways possible to make them fork out more money. Don't get me wrong, I would be all too willing to pay for expansion packs after the full game has been released, but only as long as it contains new content which is independent and ADDITIONAL to the main story in the full game, or extra customization packs or something similiar. What EA has done with ME 3, however, is downright wrong in my eyes. Anyway, I wanted to know if there were others who share my opinion. Please keep the discussion civil, thank you.
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Comments
Then you have a company like beamdog, who uses a viable business model, listens to its fans, and so far, has been honest with people. It tries to create the games that it loves and that it's fans love/want. Beamdog never said they would give us BG3, but they said that they want to. They let us know where they stand, what they're doing, what the plan is, and what they need to accomplish their goals. If their goal is something that we desire, they TRUST us to help support them. That trust word is a big difference between Beamdog and Ea. Ea trusts us to screw them over and complain and whine and not know what we want. Bascially, they trust that we're all liars and thieves.
There are lots of companies out there like beamdog, like the one who made the dread lord games. They're still making games and their fans love them because they're honest and let them know what they're doing. Beamdog will never reach the ea level as far as size and finances but i think they'll get big. But i want you to understand what you're doing anytime you buy and ea game. You're giving money to a company that is going to lie to you, spit on you, and try to cheat you and take every cent from you that they can. In order to stay in business, they have to buy the games that people want and then churn out stinking piles of feces. They came out with the 3 installs on a game so that you would be forced to buy the game again after updating the comp, of after a few times of playing though, if you have a smaller hd, if you want to free up space, you deleted and reinstall it and......ooooooooh. Now i have to buy it again.
Anyone who likes/respects EA, that's cool and i'm not going to give you a hard time about it. The heart wants what it wants. They do put out some half decent games, but i still see it as if you shoot 100 arrows at a target, at least a handful will hit. But whenever you give money to EA, you're supporting a business that has shown in the past that it doesn't care about you, it doesn't care about what you want, and it's only focus is milking as much money from the player as possible. In fact, there was a lawsuit against EA recently about (i think) the 3 install limit that they impose as being illegal. That once a player buys a game, they have the right to what they pay for. I don't know if any of you heard about this and i can go and find the link if anyone requests. Just put @Bjjorick in the post and i'll check on it as soon as i can. Playing BG2 atm.
I don't hate EA. I hate what they do, i hate their justifications, and i hate the way they treat those that support the company, and honestly, i pity those who work there. And i won't buy anything EA makes until they change.
So I'm back to buying my expensive cuppuccino, and putting the money I would have spent on games like ME3 into kickstarter projects. I hope they show the new generation what over 30 gamers are always reminiscing about.
Right now my favorite games are all indies: Endless Space, Orcs Must Die 1+2, Dungeons of Dredmor, League of Legends (hardly indie, but their business model is superb), and Torchlight. The big companies just don't seem to make anything good anymore, even Blizzard has been a huge disappointment to me recently, Diablo 3 was a massive let down from what it could have been and an obvious cash cow move with its real money auction house with many great features (LAN and offline single player to name a few) removed to suit that same auction house, as if Blizzard doesn't already make ridiculous amounts of money from their 9 million WOW subs. Torchlight 2 will be the answer to that game, a third the price, but five times the features, LAN play being the most important to me.
I'm starting to rant, but my point is, the big companies can have their greedy business models because I'm done with most of them anyway. Blizzard and Bioware are off my list of current great game makers, and that doesn't leave much that I'm interested in. Indies certainly aren't perfect, and for every good indie game there are probably 100 crap ones, but at least they're cheap and they like to try new things and when they succeed they do so in a big way. I've often heard people talking irl and on these boards about the passion you can feel in games that the devs really cared about, a lot of indies bring back that feel which has sadly disappeared from the big studios.
As far as DLC, I don't object to the concept, but my caveat is this: If it was made before release, then it has to be free to everyone who buys a copy of the game. If, however, after release they start working on something, then release it for money, I'm ok with that. In my view DLCs are pretty much the expansion packs we used to buy years ago, just in smaller chunks and ideally for less money. I don't expect NEW content to be free, but if it is held back from certain customers as a preorder bonus or whatever, that's just wrong. I took big issue with ME3 for holding back the Prothean DLC ( a MAJOR lore element ) and refused to buy the game until a friend gave me a copy ( in hindsight I wish I'd skipped the game entirely, it's such a rushed mess that it was painful to play it and then to be slapped in the face by its "ending", I can't believe the same company that made ME2 made ME3 ).
I'm tempted to go on, but I think it's enough lol.
i agree with what you said, and while i haven't played many indie games per say, i love games like pop cap that give you large addicting games for cheap. pvz i've put more hours into then i have the mass effect trilogy and i only paid 14.99 for it. Could the game have been better? Probably but what game couldn't. They also gave out dlc for free in the form of *Patches*. You know, that old word where game developers would fix problems or add small dlc sized content for free back in the day?
2 things i wanted to say in response to your post though. As far as blizzard, i'm not going to be buying from them anymore, but i remember playing wow when they had an in game auction house for game money. Boy, they sure were quick to ban anyone that bought items from other players with real world money, but when they do it, it's okay???? nice hypocrisy there.
The other was about expansion packs back in the day. They were usually 10 to 20 dollars, and usually added alot of stuff to the game, like in warcraft 2 expansion, it added a ton of maps, new units. Star craft: Brood wars was the same size as the orginal game for 20 dollars. Seems like every expansion back then added massive content for 10 to 20 usd. Now, you get a 5 dollar dlc that maybe adds to hours to the game, and that's mostly dialog. so for 1/4th the price, or even 1/2, you get about 1/100th the content. It's a scam.
And I get where you're coming from about DLC, and in fact I agree with you that its a rip off in how its being done. Like I said, the idea doesn't bother me, the execution is a different matter. For the paltry amount of content usually given in a modern DLC, they're not worth the 5-10 dollars that companies charge. Ideally they would be cheaper and contain more, but the notion of DLC is sound, just gotta improve the delivery.
Also, "patches" is some kind of crazy talk these days lol. Clearly, you can't release something without charging for every little piece of it. I do find it a little ironic that Blizzard has gone down the road they have, they used to be the masters of great expansions: Brood War, Lord of Destruction, Beyond the Dark Portal, Frozen Throne, etc. Bioware too did some great ones: Tales of the Sword Coast, Throne of Bhaal, The Icewind Dale Expansions, etc. Oh how the forces of corporate greed have destroyed some of my favorite devs.
I've got lots of ideas on how to go about it lol, but i wonder if the humor would miss the mark? Anyways, just a fun little thought, but the thing aobut them is that when you buy the shorts, they it to you for full price, but then you have to buy the pockets, and then you have to buy the elastic or string to hold them up, plus the zipper, etc.
Ehhh, maybe it would suck but i guess it would be more of an irony, but in the case where the owner of hustler made fun of the tv minister, it was ruled that it's legal to make fun of others for the sake of satire. So ea couldn't sue me at least :P
..... I hope .....
But if it's something thats already coded into the game and being released day one as extra money (MA 3 Prothean Jarvik) or is just complete crap (Elder Scrolls: Horse Armor and everything that wasn't Shivering Isles) then you must react to it. And the most effective way in doing so is to organise and boycott it.
The company will never care if you complain about it and still buy it. Money is money to them. The company will also not care if it's indivuals doing it. The most effective and really the only way to influence them is to organise under a collective voice somehow and boycot the purchase of either the DLC or the game as a whole. That's what we should be focusing on, organising.
A. You probally wouldn't be sued for slander, like Larry Flynt was
B. Satire and comedy do protect you pretty far. Under your example, people would know in a heartbeat that your story is so outrageous and obviously humor that it wouldn't be considerd. As you long as you don't blatantly say something like "AE employs slaves to make their clothes".
Slander and defamation are some of the hardest cases to prove.
modding i can do, it's kinda like when someone edits your story. But creating.....i'm not quite there yet.
Have I bought DA 2?
Yes, a year later and for less than a fiver, just to make sure it was as bad as it was mentioned.
Have I bought ME3?
No, I will do the same within a year or two, when it's up for grabs.
Is Bioware doing very well with this new approach?
Rumours they going to be shut.
Have they lost all credibility?
leave the answer to these boards members.
am I shedding a tear?
Warned my friends about opening their wallets for scraps years ago but they couldn't help themselves cause they needed to collect it all and now they moan and complain when reality slap them in the face.
Still I do believe that bioware is right and the larger mass happily spend their spare money on any bone that get thrown their way.
By the way, speaking of the original post, this reminds me of a panel discussion by a bunch of leading developers from different gaming companies that I recently watched, and they were saying a similar thing. One of the devs said something like, 'we know that gamers will pay out a lot of money to play games that they like,' and it just seemed so bizarre. From his perspective, more money means more opportunity to expand the business, work on existing games, and create more games, but I just feel like in the end, it leads to commercialization and not necessarily better games, not to mention the potentially bottomless pit this opens up for gamers to toss money into. The same guy was talking about designing games that cater to as large an audience as possible to basically maximize profits. I understand his reasoning on some level, but more money also means giving certain people very fat paycheques to do things others can do for a fraction of the cost. Also, when I look back on NWN or WC III, I had years of pleasant experiences with these games, and yet only paid $60 for each. By contrast, it has cost me $200 or more to have the same enjoyment from an mmo like WoW, and I'm not convinced it was worth the money. On the other hand, the extra money Blizzard generated may have made Diablo 3 or Starcraft 2 much easier to put into development, who knows, but if so, it would also mean strangely that by paying more money, I've only widened the bottomless pit of expenses.
Think about it if you plan to buy DLC, or pre-order a game.
Some data being on the disk reduces the risk of bugs and glitches that can often pop up with non-native content.
The DLC is easily unlocked from the disk: http://www.cinemablend.com/games/How-Unlock-Mass-Effect-3-From-Ashes-DLC-Free-40329.html
On the disk all along: http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Mass-Effect-3-Day-One-DLC-Was-Disc-All-40298.html
File Evidence: http://crystalprisonzone.blogspot.com/2012/03/bioware-day-one-dlc-developed.html?m=1
Even Forbes got into it:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/10/the-problem-with-biowares-mass-effect-3-day-one-dlc-from-ashes/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/12/bioware-and-ea-respond-to-dlc-controversy/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/11/new-video-shows-mass-effect-3-day-one-dlc-already-on-disc/
no, that kind of money doesn't lead to good games, it leads to laziness and greed. If our game bombs, ehhh, we're stilling making tons of money. And the greed part? man, we're only going to make 50 or 60 dollars a pop off this game and that's it? we got to find a way to milk this like wow.....
Gaming has turned into a cash machine, nothing else. They give you shiny new graphics and complain about people buying 2nd hand games at gamestop. Why? Because the games now a day are pretty much shiney pretty crap and very few people are going to spend 50 bucks on them. The machine isn't producing as much as it should, so they blame who? themselves? nah. They blame the player.
If we lived in a small town of 100 people, and we could only get the game local from this one person who started to charge outrageous prices, i could see EA coming to your house and beating on your door to yell at you for not buying their new game. Then they would try to force their way in the door or call the cops to see if you didn't buy it because you borrowed a copy or stole a copy. We feed these people and all they have for us gamers is contempt. I don't care if EA/Ubisoft/pretty close to saying Blizzard/and many more made the greatest game of all time tomorrow. I'm not going to buy it, i'm not going to pirate it, i'm not going to borrow it, and in the end, i'm not going to play it because i don't care what you make, so long as you treat me like crap, i'm not going to keep coming back and giving up my hard earned money to suck at the same teet.
Why i'm such a fan of beamdog. I love the BG:EE, and no one knows what the future will bring, but for now, they treat the players like players, and they remind me of the interplay motto: For Gamers, By Gamers.
And as a final note. Making games as friendly as possible is not a good idea when you have hardcore gamers. Mass Effect 1 i loved. It was an excellent RPG with military aspects/mindset, and the lore was stuff i needed to read. RTFM. Lol i had no clue what that meant, but ashley and shepard kept saying it and i found it in the lore.
ME 2. Friendly. The lore was a copy/paste from the first game, was no longer an RPG, but a shooter/exploration game with some tacked on RPG. It was no longer military mindset, but hollywood mindset that tried to act like it was military. In both games i liked tali's char, and i wanted some closure there. So i bought....
ME 3. Terrible terrible game. I hated that they got rid of infinate ammo in the first one, and the lame ass excuse they gave as to why they did. Then you start out the game and was just geez. Why not call this Call of Mass Effect or Modern Effect 3. You level up. Has no effect. You get abilities but that really has no effect. I played through til i got tali, saved her home world, went back to the ship, talked about how the geth and quarians were rebuilding. Saw the picture of her and realized i was done. I already heard about the ending, and from that point, made up my own ending as i hated the direction the game had taken and where it was going. In my opinion, it was mainstream, it was very newbie friendly, and it sucked horribly. You start with an RPG that uses guns, strip away all the RPG elements (nearly all) and the change everything about the world. Terrible terrible idea.
I used to love bioware. (
Edit: a few quotes from developers talking about how gamers don't know anything.
She went on to say that “Players rant, they know nothing about this DLC that’s coming out other than its name and it’s like “the game must be incomplete, the game must be ruined.”
“Game developers are not evil… we just want to release awesome stuff. So players, please give us a chance, judge our games based on what they are, judge the DLC based on what it is, and stop thinking you’ra producer and telling us when and where we should be building our content.”
Also, the original Mass Effect, I forgot how much more of an RPG it was until I went back to play it recently. It's too bad mass appeal has to kill good ideas.