I'm just glad that it hasn't gotten to the point where games are released just flat out broken yet.
If you look around a little on the internet, you will find several titles that have been sold in an unplayable state - usually because of copy protection gone crazy.
Does this mean that if you pirate your copy, they can't sue you either?
I honestly don't know - I think that EA would be the first to go after pirates in that manner, and if it was worth the effort they likely would have done so. My only knowledge on the subject was CD Project going after pirates and demanding a fine.
If the 'downloadable content' is in fact an extension, a true one, a lot of content for maybe 20$, I see no trouble there. One day we will all buy online after all. Good example:
Oblivion >> Shivering isles (huge one) Skyrim >> Dawnguard (this one is borderline, but still 'ok'.)
But if this 'DLC' is only a weapons pack, a races pack, a spe-pack, one additional adventure and that we have to pay 1,99$ or 3,99$ or 4,99$ or anything, that exactly the concept that I hate. I want to pay for a full game or a full extension, I dont want to have to buy some littles ''add-on'' to 'really complete the storyline'. Good example:
Dragon age >> all the insignificants DLC (all of them) Oblivion >> all the insignificants DLC (horse armor for 1.99$, orrery for 1,99$, wizard tower for 1,99$, etc)
If the 'downloadable content' is in fact an extension, a true one, a lot of content for maybe 20$, I see no trouble there. One day we will all buy online after all. Good example:
Oblivion >> Shivering isles (huge one) Skyrim >> Dawnguard (this one is borderline, but still 'ok'.)
But if this 'DLC' is only a weapons pack, a races pack, a spe-pack, one additional adventure and that we have to pay 1,99$ or 3,99$ or 4,99$ or anything, that exactly the concept that I hate. I want to pay for a full game or a full extension, I dont want to have to buy some littles ''add-on'' to 'really complete the storyline'. Good example:
Dragon age >> all the insignificants DLC (all of them) Oblivion >> all the insignificants DLC (horse armor for 1.99$, orrery for 1,99$, wizard tower for 1,99$, etc)
This concept is just 'not okay'. I dislike it.
You use a lot of non-specific terms leaving things to the interpretation of the observer....business cant work like that.... A True Extension as expressed in your opening words is undefinable.
So what gives you the right to tell the company what it can and cannot offer, and for how much?
Have you done a detailed cost benefit analysis? What Business case did you submit to defend your numbers? Im betting none of the above.
Your only RIGHT as a customer is to buy or not to buy (well that and an expectation of a functioning product on purchase). If they release a DLC that adds Green Kilts to the Argonians in one section of the map and are charging $900.00 for it...that is their RIGHT. If their business model is wrong, they won't sell many of them
Oh and no company has to do what some other company did just because some customer says so. Im all for getting the most for my money/your money but try to remember the consumer is not some all powerful dictator...they can DEMAND free software, but no one has to actually give them free software....that would be called "Slavery"
I'll be honest and say that EA are asses, but asses that know good business. With those DLCs they are making money and TBH that Bioware didn't fuck up ME3 ending as bad as they did I have to say that I would be first in line to buy new DLC for it. One thing I will admit to Bioware, till this last 2 games (DA2 and ME3) they were the only company that got me to care about characters. That final 5 minutes of ME3 didn't happen, I'd still be right there jumping and screaming like a little girl, asking for more.
So yes, I must say, we as players maybe don't like it, but EA are asses with great business sense. Simple as that. Sad, but true.
You know...I cannot think of any other entertainment medium I can pay such a low cost per hour for...even reading is more expensive with the cost of books the way it is, I can finish a normal sized book in about a day...
where do you buy your books from? i typically hit 2nd hand stores, flea markets, yard sales to find some of the older books from a different time period. I like the atmosphere in a flea market/yard sale book hunting better then in a book store because they don't care if you take your time looking/ thumbing through the pages, reading the first few pages/etc. My wife has tried to get me to read books on an ipad, but i just like the *feel* of a book.
As far as the ME3 day 1 dlc. If bioware wasn't a part of EA and did it, i might be inclined to believe them. But if bioware wasn't a part of EA, it never would have been day 1 at worst, and would have been a part of the original game at best.
@immagikman as far as the shivering isles, that was more of an expansion then a dlc. You have to understand, yes, anything downloaded (including a movie off of hulu) is techinally dlc. but in the industry, dlc is small amount of gaming content delivered as a *patch* to the game. It mods the game. an expansion is a medium sized amount of content that also *patches* the game. a sequal is a large amount of content that is either stand alone or *patches* the game.
the dragon age dlc i liked. It found out what players wanted and it delivered it at low prices in my opinion. The smithy/haunted castle quest was cheap and i liked the content, and the chest for storing items was fan requested. I'm a horder in games, so i liked that (and it came with the cheap extra quest, so i was happy).
The items, i got most of those from pre ordering, and the blood armor i didn't like. I didn't buy all the little items because i thought most where cheap anyways (why go through and fight the evil skelly dudes to get the awesome heavy armor when you can just buy it for 4 usd?)
But again, they did it right. Nothing story related. Mass effect 3, you're right, the promethian wasn't story related, but you've played ME 1 and 2, and ME 3 comes out and hey, there's a promtheian DLC you can dl day 1 with your game. No announcements, nothing. So how do you do know that he's not a part of the story? You don't? It's designed to seem like it's a major part of the story that the game decided to take out and make it look like they charged you 59.99 + 10 usd just to play through the game?????
And people are upset? Geez, they must be fucking idiots!!!!
I just think that if you set a big corporation on a gaming project, things are doomed to go wrong, as the suits are only looking for ways on how to maximize profits from the gaming products. Games hav become nothing more than consumables today. Companies are fighting each other by trying to be more technologically advanced (spiffy graphics and nasty asplosions), streamlining their products (RPGs becoming more and more like action games and shooters, like in Bioware's case) and stupid PR tactics. It really has come this far. Ithink it really is a pity, as it seems that through the massive competition between companies, the actual game and its customer are loost out of view.
Like you said, I can buy or not buy, that not even a question of 'rights'. That why I'm not defending my opinion, I just dislike this whole concept of addons and DLCs. I just feel that this is not a good 'investment' according to my personal views.
yeah some people on here obviously work in the industry and i think that's why they defend dlc/*PAID* addons as much as they do. But greed has killed many things other then gaming. I'm actually hoping all the big companies move on to the new *social gaming* and leave the hardcore gamers with a couple handfuls of developers.
In all honesty, games back in the 80's/90's, you could easily play them for months at a time. Heck, once a month, i still whip out mega man x 1-8 and do a playthrough, and megaman series i'll play through all the games at least once a year. Except megaman x7. can't seem to play that one.
I dont work in the gaming industry, but I do work in the tech industry and I do know about trying to modularize your code to sell the customer the product that fits their need to the price they can afford right now with an eye toward expansion and compatibility later for more $$$. As for the $60 or $75 game prices, some here will think that is high, others will view it as pennies per hour of entertainment. If $60 or $75 for a game is too expensive, perhaps you are not in a hobby you can afford, if DLC keeps intial cost down, then that makes it easier to the lower economic classes to get involved, if DLC adds content wooHoo everyone wins. Wanting everything at the price one wants to set without haveing done a basic analysis of the cost to produce, including the cost of government intrusion via regulations taxes and general greed is just short sighted.
Not saying the Gaming industry doesnt screw the pooch often, but when they do, they lose reputation and revenue and if they are messed up bad enough they will be out of business.
I dont work in the gaming industry, but I do work in the tech industry and I do know about trying to modularize your code to sell the customer the product that fits their need to the price they can afford right now with an eye toward expansion and compatibility later for more $$$. As for the $60 or $75 game prices, some here will think that is high, others will view it as pennies per hour of entertainment. If $60 or $75 for a game is too expensive, perhaps you are not in a hobby you can afford, if DLC keeps intial cost down, then that makes it easier to the lower economic classes to get involved, if DLC adds content wooHoo everyone wins. Wanting everything at the price one wants to set without haveing done a basic analysis of the cost to produce, including the cost of government intrusion via regulations taxes and general greed is just short sighted.
Not saying the Gaming industry doesnt screw the pooch often, but when they do, they lose reputation and revenue and if they are messed up bad enough they will be out of business.
ahhh, the gaming industy is broke and hurting for money. i hadn't heard them filing for bankruptcy but i assume they would want to keep such matters private. so you're right, i shouldn't complain that they just recently upped the price of all games by 10 usd for the cost of the new hd/blu ray disks (which pc doesn't even use, and is still cheaper then the carts used in days of old). Nor the fact that it being more expensive on the purchase side isn't the cost of the final game, as they could add anywhere from 1~800 usd in content.
I remember a story about grand turismo 4 or 5. They were going to sell the game for a standard price, and give you the same basic starting cars. But the cars wouldn't be unlockable in game, but rather you would buy each car you wanted. The final estimate for the game was right at around $850. But you know what, fans got mad. They whined and complained. And so sony realized that it wouldn't fly. And so did the gaming industry. so instead, they cut of bits and pieces that would have otherwise been in the game and sell it to us. That's the truth of the matter and in 10 years when grand turismo 6 or 7 comes out or some other popular game, they'll try it again. And fans won't complain as much, but they will complain. and it will be scrapped and soon we'll be paying 150 for a game, but people like @immagikman will say that if we can't afford it then we shouldn't play. and that it's tough but that nothing has changed.
Umm My PC uses BluRay players... And in the US alone in the last year we've seen a significant increase in the cost of doing business simpley due to 1 of several government regulations that are putting smaller companies out of business.... Im saying a, live within your means, and b. get a good grounding in business if you want to understand why things are done the way they are. Don't just stop your foot and say "I want it I want it."
PC gaming has never been meant for the lower economic incomes, When I started into it back in 1990, a basic computer, 64k RAM, 12" color Tv for dislay, and 2x 5.25 inch floppy drives storing 150 to 300 Kilobytes cost me $2500.00 and the games? Roughly 30 dollars or so....now 22 years later An average gaming rig can run right around $2k and software is at $40 to $80 all in all not too bad really..a fairly stable pricing.
ahhh, the gaming industy is broke and hurting for money. .
Im not aware of ANYONE saying that. But if you think a company just coasts along until that point, you clearly don't have an understanding of running a business. A company doesnt just look at the NOW, they look down range, they have to account for Payroll, leasing, hardware, software, infrastructure, retirement benefits for the talent AND they have to make a profit on top of that.....I seriously think that most "gamers" just dont have a clue what is behind the effort to put the game on their table...just if I slammed a live pig into your kitchen and told you to go make some bacon.....most have no idea how.
of course only a very small minority of gamers actually run businesses or companies so that may explain a thing or two.
Actually, last i heard, gaming was one of the most profitable ventures to get into. Sure, some games fail, but those were mostly lazy games. And some used bad business but had little to do with what they charged, but more to do with starting games they never finished, not taking advantage of a series while it was hot and fresh. I'm sure you've heard of duke nukem forever. That's an example of letting a game cool for way to long. They had their reasons, but ultimately, it was bad business.
Part of the problem as i see it is that gamers are treated like all of them are complete idiots. For starters, your 2k prick tag on an average gaming rig is way off. I build my own gaming comps and it's around 800 usd, but i build them to last a minimum of 5 years before being obsolete. The gaming rig most would buy is around 1.2k, if it's for the sake of gaming. And that's only for the ones who play fps, typically.
i'm honestly surprised at how much you defend the gaming industry. The movie industry was complaining during the recession how the recession was lowering it's profits, but overall profits were still up 8~12% over the previous year. They were expecting 20~25% increase. And in my opinion, the movie industry has completely gone the way of blatant greed, as is the music industry, and it's the path gaming is going down.
I know you'll disagree again and not see any validity to my points. I guess that's fair since i don't agree with too many of your points either. But please remember, if you sell something 1 dollar profit, and 2 million people buy it, or you sell something for 1000 dollars profit and 500 people buy it, you lost money.
@Bjjorick Im not pointing any fingers at any one in particular...but the MAJORITY...and a really big majority of consumers are MORONS. All you have to do is take one look at the Television Show options that are available...it aint rocket scientists watching those shows. Gamers are no different. A few really smart ones but of that subclass of intelligent gamer is a large majority of inexperienced (low wisdom) type swho have never yet been part of the business world and thus have no idea what they are talking about.
@immagikman lol, why do i feel like i'm a part of what you just described?
did you ever read what ford said? Guess he agrees with you but the first one is what i agree with the most.
There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible. *sadly, we are no longer an industrial nation*
It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.
A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business. *EA falls in this category with many others*
It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages. *this is what i referred to as a customer's right to demand*
A business absolutely devoted to service will have only one worry about profits. They will be embarrassingly large.
The man who will use his skill and constructive imagination to see how much he can give for a dollar, instead of how little he can give for a dollar, is bound to succeed.
*I apparently can't say it right, but there are others smarter then me who have said it much better then I. This is from a very successful businessman, who understood business, and moved with it. *
You are wrong that we are not an industrial nation, we are not a PRIMARILY industrial nation however the Making of goods still occurs in the nation and Millions of workers earn their living in industry and Billions of dollars in goods are made in this country every year. That's one of the dirty political secrets out there....since the private sector unions lost their iron grip on the throat of industry their campaigns make it sound like there is no industry in the nation. Yes we can be more industrial but the big money lays in Services these days.
And I can tell you that from my FIRST hand experience that a company that focuses strictly on customer service will go under quicker than you can say "What Happened" I have been involved in two such companies.....what you fail to realize is how unreasonable the consumer is....If you let the consumer drive your business model, you will see no profits as they will all be eaten up by the millions of demands placed by the consumer. The idea "The Customer" is always right works in SMALL markets, when you scale up to true industry levels....it becomes untenable. Just try working at a Customer Call center and listen to all the idiots that call in and eat up your time and revenue. Why do you Think call centers were the first thing to get out sourced to India and other such places....COST BENEFIT showed these customer service centers were revenue LOOOOSERS.
You seem to have a very good grasp of ideal situations but do not grasp the difference between theory and the reality of the market place.
It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages. *this is what i referred to as a customer's right to demand*
So very wrong, the customer pays the taxes and costs of doing business, the company management sets and pays the wages. The customer has no direct link to wages.
.A business absolutely devoted to service will have only one worry about profits. They will be embarrassingly large.
Idle fantasy. Do you think that you are the most intelligent person in the world the ONLY one to ever have that thought? Wrong, MANY businesses have tried this and failed. That is why you have whole teams of people making money now doing what is called "Cost Benefit Analysis" and Market projection. The idea that one simple blurb such as "Focus only on customer service" is a business model is too simplistic for me to be able to even speculate on.
Business and Marketing are not simplistic and amateurs should realize that and accept the fact that running a company is not simple or easy or that it can be simply managed by platitudes and proverbs.
Not pointing fingers at anyone in particular but gamers as a general rule, don't know what they dont know....same as every other class of people...and thus they simplify things like business, budgeting and prioritization.
Over Simplification of Complex operations lead to a mass of mis-information and wrong ideas.
@Bjjorick A shorter version of my previous post is:
"Make a product, make it the best you can but don't worry about perfection because you can't please everyone, market it the way you see fit to reach YOUR intended customer" Price it to cover costs and reasonable profit. Watch for useful suggestions for upgrades, do cost benefit analysis on it and proceed from there. Ignore everything else." The MAIN goal of any Company or Corporation comes down to MAKING A PROFIT....in keeping with the core philosophy of the company.
You are wrong that we are not an industrial nation, we are not a PRIMARILY industrial nation however the Making of goods still occurs in the nation and Millions of workers earn their living in industry and Billions of dollars in goods are made in this country every year. That's one of the dirty political secrets out there....since the private sector unions lost their iron grip on the throat of industry their campaigns make it sound like there is no industry in the nation. Yes we can be more industrial but the big money lays in Services these days.
And I can tell you that from my FIRST hand experience that a company that focuses strictly on customer service will go under quicker than you can say "What Happened" I have been involved in two such companies.....what you fail to realize is how unreasonable the consumer is....If you let the consumer drive your business model, you will see no profits as they will all be eaten up by the millions of demands placed by the consumer. The idea "The Customer" is always right works in SMALL markets, when you scale up to true industry levels....it becomes untenable. Just try working at a Customer Call center and listen to all the idiots that call in and eat up your time and revenue. Why do you Think call centers were the first thing to get out sourced to India and other such places....COST BENEFIT showed these customer service centers were revenue LOOOOSERS.
I'm not saying let the customer determine where the business heads, or what to make/do with the company. But let me ask you this, if you're a consumer and you call the company and they don't care what you have to say, what you have to complain about, what are you going to do? You're going to bitch about it to your friends, to your family, to your coworkers. Anyone who will listen because *you've been cheated.*
Maybe all the people you bitched to wouldn't have bought it anyways, but somewhere down the line someone will ask one of those people about that company and the only thing they can say? well, i've heard bad things about it. Customer service is very important, but not to your extreme. Customer service is so that people can voice their opinion to someone in the company, even if it never happens. It doesn't mean the company didn't listen, just that it might not have been feasible. The one thing you should always do is say/act like the customer is always right, you should never say the customer is an idiot/ignorant, even if that's what you really feel. Don't take it to such extremes man or you'll make me do the same.
Edit: all those quotes you say come from someone with no business sense was spoken by henry ford. I stated that in my post....... look it up man.
Edit again: @immagikman i forgot to touch on your one point. I meant to say that we're NO LONGER primarily an industrial nation. And getting to be less and less with each passing year.
Ford would have evolved, as all the other sucessful business pioneers did..the ones that didnt disappeared...does the name Edsel ring a bell I have read stuff that Ford has said and Edison, and Franklin, some of it is timeless truths that apply universally and other bits, were signs of their time and no longer apply.
Im not talking in absolutes, Customer Service is a PART of the business but it is not the most important or only thing to worry about. Everyone complains that you get a call center in India when you try to get help with your product.....and yet.....millions of people still buy the product.... So you listen and make note of the "reasonable" customers and those people who are terminal pains in the butt end up finding that their service has been canceled and they are labeled as a liability across the industry. Hundreds of custmers a day are put into this bin and for the lack of a courteous reasonable attitude they find the rest of their lives is plagued by disappointment because their name has been flagged. Sad but true..in this case I was speaking of telecom services.
I agree under current political and economic conditions out Industrial capacity is shrinking.
Hmmm, my name must be in the bin because i've had a few places piss me off before. And when i called them and they give me some half answer that doesn't answer my question, i've let them know exactly how much i don't appreciate it. I remember telling bellsouth/att once that even if they had reason to consider what they were saying, which was quite ludicrious, shouldn't you at least hear what the customer has to say? They said, ok, sure, why not, and i started to explain the problem again and she kept cutting me off, i finally told her, forget it, cancel my service. She blah blah blah about how important i was as a customer and i kinda lost it and said fu, i'm done. Called comcast and got my service turned on with in a week and have been happy ever since.
Customer service is very important when you provide a service. When you have a game come out, customer service is very important for any problems people may have. Even if it just gives the players a chance to vent and you say a few nice words to them, they can't play what they paid for, even if only due to a small issue, it makes you feel important.
Gaming, imho, has the least amount of CS.
Sorry if this doesn't make sense, wind is picking up and power is trying to go off, don't want to have to retype al this.
The customer has rights But my work in Telecom showed me a whole new world out there...and yeah if the customer is too big a jerk, pretty much no matter which major Telco you go to, you will have been flagged and treated like an annoyance rather than a valued customer.....after all 1 customer is nothing when there are tens of millions of other customers who aren't being a PITA.
This tracking of info is no different than the tracking of your credit score...and as the world becomes one big electronic forum, what you say in one place may dog you for a long long long time.
DLC are a great idea, i like it very much. Primarily because it provides an incentive for the developer to work on the product even after the release. Old styled games? making patches for them is pure financial loss, and noone cares. DLC completely change the picture in that you have to care for the game else DLC's are not getting bought. For the consumer it also means more content for the game he likes.
DLCs are just a form of support costs. Works for Linux, works for MMO's with monthly subscription. Everyone is happy. In fact Linux without support cost is free to use, heh.
And look at BG, its been 15 years and bugs are still not fixed.
@Roller12: Umm...I think you're greatly underestimating the importance of patches here. If a game is buggy, a patch is in order, otherwise the game will become unplayable, players getting annoyed, etc. Patches often add important updates and fixes to a game. Yes, people DO care if such things make their game run more smoothly. Also, patches don't always mean financial loss, as they often don't require extra resources, since the raw material (the game itself) is already there. I don't think creating patches has such a great impact on a bigger time scale either. You can just as well set a few people upon it while the rest of your team works on the next project. Secondly, so DLCs mean developers care more for their games? Hmm, so THAT is why Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 2 were such shoddy products. No really, most of the DLCs contain better features than the overall main game. Such dedication, it warms my heart. Too bad I had no intention of buying any DLCs after seeing the failures called Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age 2. I honestly couldn't care less. DLCs still are a means to get more money out of consumers who are all too willing to pay for an extra weapon that'll become useless the next time they level up. Last but not least, hey, maybe you should take a look at the bug fix part of this forum. Also, I'm certain many of the beta testers are also involved with fixing bugs in BG:EE. And on a personal note, I never encountered one single bug in my old Baldur's Gate games. Seriously. I think modern games suffer MUCH more from bugs because they're often released on a rushed deadline.
@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud Baldur's Gate had definitely its share of bugs. There is a simple reason why modern games tend to be more buggy: They are more complex.
Of course, as far as I remember, BioWare has never shown much interest in writing patches for their games.
@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud Baldur's Gate had definitely its share of bugs. There is a simple reason why modern games tend to be more buggy: They are more complex.
Of course, as far as I remember, BioWare has never shown much interest in writing patches for their games.
I agree totally, there are a large number of well documented bugs in BG, and I think there might be a tendency to ignore them or overlook them in hind sight inspired nostalgia. That being said You are even more right that Modern games are VASSTLY more complex and you have a much larger number of people involved, more people means more chances to have "issues".
@Humanoid_Taifun: Yup, that's true. Bioware just seems to be interested in milking their games as much as they can as off lately. Just look at the Leviathan DLC and the constant multiplayer missions for Mass Effect 3. Many people with technical issues have to go through EA's horrible customer support and pray to God their problem gets fixed.
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http://www.techspot.com/news/46715-witcher-2-devs-suing-pirates-claim-to-be-sure-who-downloaded-illegally.html
For just over £1000 ? It probably cost them more than that to set it all up. But maybe they chucked a level 2 fear spell out there.
If the 'downloadable content' is in fact an extension, a true one, a lot of content for maybe 20$, I see no trouble there. One day we will all buy online after all. Good example:
Oblivion >> Shivering isles (huge one)
Skyrim >> Dawnguard (this one is borderline, but still 'ok'.)
But if this 'DLC' is only a weapons pack, a races pack, a spe-pack, one additional adventure and that we have to pay 1,99$ or 3,99$ or 4,99$ or anything, that exactly the concept that I hate. I want to pay for a full game or a full extension, I dont want to have to buy some littles ''add-on'' to 'really complete the storyline'. Good example:
Dragon age >> all the insignificants DLC (all of them)
Oblivion >> all the insignificants DLC (horse armor for 1.99$, orrery for 1,99$, wizard tower for 1,99$, etc)
This concept is just 'not okay'. I dislike it.
So what gives you the right to tell the company what it can and cannot offer, and for how much?
Have you done a detailed cost benefit analysis? What Business case did you submit to defend your numbers? Im betting none of the above.
Your only RIGHT as a customer is to buy or not to buy (well that and an expectation of a functioning product on purchase). If they release a DLC that adds Green Kilts to the Argonians in one section of the map and are charging $900.00 for it...that is their RIGHT. If their business model is wrong, they won't sell many of them
Oh and no company has to do what some other company did just because some customer says so. Im all for getting the most for my money/your money but try to remember the consumer is not some all powerful dictator...they can DEMAND free software, but no one has to actually give them free software....that would be called "Slavery"
So yes, I must say, we as players maybe don't like it, but EA are asses with great business sense. Simple as that. Sad, but true.
As far as the ME3 day 1 dlc. If bioware wasn't a part of EA and did it, i might be inclined to believe them. But if bioware wasn't a part of EA, it never would have been day 1 at worst, and would have been a part of the original game at best.
as far as the shivering isles, that was more of an expansion then a dlc. You have to understand, yes, anything downloaded (including a movie off of hulu) is techinally dlc. but in the industry, dlc is small amount of gaming content delivered as a *patch* to the game. It mods the game. an expansion is a medium sized amount of content that also *patches* the game. a sequal is a large amount of content that is either stand alone or *patches* the game.
the dragon age dlc i liked. It found out what players wanted and it delivered it at low prices in my opinion. The smithy/haunted castle quest was cheap and i liked the content, and the chest for storing items was fan requested. I'm a horder in games, so i liked that (and it came with the cheap extra quest, so i was happy).
The items, i got most of those from pre ordering, and the blood armor i didn't like. I didn't buy all the little items because i thought most where cheap anyways (why go through and fight the evil skelly dudes to get the awesome heavy armor when you can just buy it for 4 usd?)
But again, they did it right. Nothing story related. Mass effect 3, you're right, the promethian wasn't story related, but you've played ME 1 and 2, and ME 3 comes out and hey, there's a promtheian DLC you can dl day 1 with your game. No announcements, nothing. So how do you do know that he's not a part of the story? You don't? It's designed to seem like it's a major part of the story that the game decided to take out and make it look like they charged you 59.99 + 10 usd just to play through the game?????
And people are upset? Geez, they must be fucking idiots!!!!
i agree with you, i just find it sad that we keep paying more and more for less and less.
In all honesty, games back in the 80's/90's, you could easily play them for months at a time. Heck, once a month, i still whip out mega man x 1-8 and do a playthrough, and megaman series i'll play through all the games at least once a year. Except megaman x7. can't seem to play that one.
Games used to be fun.
Not saying the Gaming industry doesnt screw the pooch often, but when they do, they lose reputation and revenue and if they are messed up bad enough they will be out of business.
I remember a story about grand turismo 4 or 5. They were going to sell the game for a standard price, and give you the same basic starting cars. But the cars wouldn't be unlockable in game, but rather you would buy each car you wanted. The final estimate for the game was right at around $850. But you know what, fans got mad. They whined and complained. And so sony realized that it wouldn't fly. And so did the gaming industry. so instead, they cut of bits and pieces that would have otherwise been in the game and sell it to us. That's the truth of the matter and in 10 years when grand turismo 6 or 7 comes out or some other popular game, they'll try it again. And fans won't complain as much, but they will complain. and it will be scrapped and soon we'll be paying 150 for a game, but people like @immagikman will say that if we can't afford it then we shouldn't play. and that it's tough but that nothing has changed.
*shrughs* so be it.
PC gaming has never been meant for the lower economic incomes, When I started into it back in 1990, a basic computer, 64k RAM, 12" color Tv for dislay, and 2x 5.25 inch floppy drives storing 150 to 300 Kilobytes cost me $2500.00 and the games? Roughly 30 dollars or so....now 22 years later An average gaming rig can run right around $2k and software is at $40 to $80 all in all not too bad really..a fairly stable pricing.
of course only a very small minority of gamers actually run businesses or companies so that may explain a thing or two.
Part of the problem as i see it is that gamers are treated like all of them are complete idiots. For starters, your 2k prick tag on an average gaming rig is way off. I build my own gaming comps and it's around 800 usd, but i build them to last a minimum of 5 years before being obsolete. The gaming rig most would buy is around 1.2k, if it's for the sake of gaming. And that's only for the ones who play fps, typically.
i'm honestly surprised at how much you defend the gaming industry. The movie industry was complaining during the recession how the recession was lowering it's profits, but overall profits were still up 8~12% over the previous year. They were expecting 20~25% increase. And in my opinion, the movie industry has completely gone the way of blatant greed, as is the music industry, and it's the path gaming is going down.
I know you'll disagree again and not see any validity to my points. I guess that's fair since i don't agree with too many of your points either. But please remember, if you sell something 1 dollar profit, and 2 million people buy it, or you sell something for 1000 dollars profit and 500 people buy it, you lost money.
did you ever read what ford said? Guess he agrees with you but the first one is what i agree with the most.
There is one rule for the industrialist and that is: Make the best quality of goods possible at the lowest cost possible, paying the highest wages possible. *sadly, we are no longer an industrial nation*
It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.
A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business. *EA falls in this category with many others*
It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages. *this is what i referred to as a customer's right to demand*
A business absolutely devoted to service will have only one worry about profits. They will be embarrassingly large.
The man who will use his skill and constructive imagination to see how much he can give for a dollar, instead of how little he can give for a dollar, is bound to succeed.
*I apparently can't say it right, but there are others smarter then me who have said it much better then I. This is from a very successful businessman, who understood business, and moved with it. *
You are wrong that we are not an industrial nation, we are not a PRIMARILY industrial nation however the Making of goods still occurs in the nation and Millions of workers earn their living in industry and Billions of dollars in goods are made in this country every year. That's one of the dirty political secrets out there....since the private sector unions lost their iron grip on the throat of industry their campaigns make it sound like there is no industry in the nation. Yes we can be more industrial but the big money lays in Services these days.
And I can tell you that from my FIRST hand experience that a company that focuses strictly on customer service will go under quicker than you can say "What Happened" I have been involved in two such companies.....what you fail to realize is how unreasonable the consumer is....If you let the consumer drive your business model, you will see no profits as they will all be eaten up by the millions of demands placed by the consumer. The idea "The Customer" is always right works in SMALL markets, when you scale up to true industry levels....it becomes untenable. Just try working at a Customer Call center and listen to all the idiots that call in and eat up your time and revenue. Why do you Think call centers were the first thing to get out sourced to India and other such places....COST BENEFIT showed these customer service centers were revenue LOOOOSERS.
You seem to have a very good grasp of ideal situations but do not grasp the difference between theory and the reality of the market place.
It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages. *this is what i referred to as a customer's right to demand*
So very wrong, the customer pays the taxes and costs of doing business, the company management sets and pays the wages. The customer has no direct link to wages.
.A business absolutely devoted to service will have only one worry about profits. They will be embarrassingly large.
Idle fantasy. Do you think that you are the most intelligent person in the world the ONLY one to ever have that thought? Wrong, MANY businesses have tried this and failed. That is why you have whole teams of people making money now doing what is called "Cost Benefit Analysis" and Market projection. The idea that one simple blurb such as "Focus only on customer service" is a business model is too simplistic for me to be able to even speculate on.
Business and Marketing are not simplistic and amateurs should realize that and accept the fact that running a company is not simple or easy or that it can be simply managed by platitudes and proverbs.
Not pointing fingers at anyone in particular but gamers as a general rule, don't know what they dont know....same as every other class of people...and thus they simplify things like business, budgeting and prioritization.
Over Simplification of Complex operations lead to a mass of mis-information and wrong ideas.
A shorter version of my previous post is:
"Make a product, make it the best you can but don't worry about perfection because you can't please everyone, market it the way you see fit to reach YOUR intended customer" Price it to cover costs and reasonable profit. Watch for useful suggestions for upgrades, do cost benefit analysis on it and proceed from there. Ignore everything else." The MAIN goal of any Company or Corporation comes down to MAKING A PROFIT....in keeping with the core philosophy of the company.
Maybe all the people you bitched to wouldn't have bought it anyways, but somewhere down the line someone will ask one of those people about that company and the only thing they can say? well, i've heard bad things about it. Customer service is very important, but not to your extreme. Customer service is so that people can voice their opinion to someone in the company, even if it never happens. It doesn't mean the company didn't listen, just that it might not have been feasible. The one thing you should always do is say/act like the customer is always right, you should never say the customer is an idiot/ignorant, even if that's what you really feel. Don't take it to such extremes man or you'll make me do the same.
Edit: all those quotes you say come from someone with no business sense was spoken by henry ford. I stated that in my post....... look it up man.
Edit again: @immagikman i forgot to touch on your one point. I meant to say that we're NO LONGER primarily an industrial nation. And getting to be less and less with each passing year.
Im not talking in absolutes, Customer Service is a PART of the business but it is not the most important or only thing to worry about. Everyone complains that you get a call center in India when you try to get help with your product.....and yet.....millions of people still buy the product.... So you listen and make note of the "reasonable" customers and those people who are terminal pains in the butt end up finding that their service has been canceled and they are labeled as a liability across the industry. Hundreds of custmers a day are put into this bin and for the lack of a courteous reasonable attitude they find the rest of their lives is plagued by disappointment because their name has been flagged. Sad but true..in this case I was speaking of telecom services.
I agree under current political and economic conditions out Industrial capacity is shrinking.
Customer service is very important when you provide a service. When you have a game come out, customer service is very important for any problems people may have. Even if it just gives the players a chance to vent and you say a few nice words to them, they can't play what they paid for, even if only due to a small issue, it makes you feel important.
Gaming, imho, has the least amount of CS.
Sorry if this doesn't make sense, wind is picking up and power is trying to go off, don't want to have to retype al this.
This tracking of info is no different than the tracking of your credit score...and as the world becomes one big electronic forum, what you say in one place may dog you for a long long long time.
DLCs are just a form of support costs. Works for Linux, works for MMO's with monthly subscription. Everyone is happy. In fact Linux without support cost is free to use, heh.
And look at BG, its been 15 years and bugs are still not fixed.
There is a simple reason why modern games tend to be more buggy: They are more complex.
Of course, as far as I remember, BioWare has never shown much interest in writing patches for their games.