@dannen6272 sadly yeah, i LOVED the first mass effect, only thing that made me sad was that the non romancable female (tali) was more interesting then the other two, but i liked that she was in the 2nd/3rd. But the 2nd game......ehhhh, i loved exploring the planets in the first game, and it was completely optional. The 2nd game forcing you to scan planets to upgrade weapons was lame, and didn't have half the charm of the first one. I LOVED the mako. but ehhh, yeah, mass effect was a huge disappointment after the first, but in all honesty, the first game is a stand alone with two bad expansion packs.
Same with Dragon age. I put i 50 or 60 hours first play through, and probably another 70 on later playthroughs. DA2, after 10 hours, i just couldn't bear it anymore. ME and DA show me that the bioware i loved is gone..... BUT, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, it seems most of the people who's work i enjoyed so much are a part of beamdog, so i will be watching this company closely and supporting them until such a point as i realize that i was wrong or they get involved with EA, and from what i've seen so far, that's something Trent would never do.
I'm not trying to be a troll please understand but how can you make your argument as 'ea vs beamdog' when on the main page of the site there is a little * that links you to some tiny print saying that for mobile 2 of the characters are not free but buyable dlc? edit: the exact wording is 'in-app purchases'. i'm getting my copy for pc so i don't care but still
@neleothesze i don't consider giving your opinion to be trolling so no worries
But for your question, the game is roughly 20 usd to buy except for the ipad version. Most things coming out of the apple store are 10 dollar apps. Not sure if that's an apple limit or what, so to make it fair, they broke up the content and are selling the game for 10 usd and those that want the extras can pay a grand total of 10 usd for everything or break it up and get this for a few dollars.
Maybe i'm a hypocrite, but i realize that if they gave the full game for 10 usd on the apple store, and 20 everywhere else, people would be screaming blood. If they made the game 10 usd, they wouldn't make any money. I think 20 is honestly cheap for this, but i understand they need to be competitive.
So basically the game is 20 usd, but they're selling most of the game for 10 for the sake of either being competitive or otherwise, and i honestly like that strategy. Lots of people will buy it for pc and ipad, but if they didn't like part of the new content, say dorn, they can get the game cheaper.
Let me know what you think and if you think i'm being hypocritical, please let me know. i promise not to take offense of get my feelings hurt, but i love to debate/see opposing viewpoints, and i deffinately welcome yours.
I'm not trying to be a troll please understand but how can you make your argument as 'ea vs beamdog' when on the main page of the site there is a little * that links you to some tiny print saying that for mobile 2 of the characters are not free but buyable dlc? edit: the exact wording is 'in-app purchases'. i'm getting my copy for pc so i don't care but still
I think they have a problem with how much you can price a game on these platforms more than trying to milk the cow. If they put all the content in the iPad version and tag it 20$ it will be overpriced for an iPad app. If they price it at 10 or 15$ with all the content then it's the PC that will be called overpriced :-/
If you take into account tablet versions will require more work because of their different interface (touch screens) and the fact multi or imported save from PC will not be broken (DLC char not disappearing), I think their plan is fair.
@Bjjorick I understand that you believe people will object to there being one price for PC/Mac and another for iPad but consider this: Why not leave a small portion out and those who want to support Beamdog buy if for 9.99 (9.99 game + this = the full $20 price tag)? Instead they leave out: "New Character: Dorn Il-Khan as an in-app purchase New Character: Neera the Wild Mage as an in-app purchase New Player Voice sets as an in-app purchase New Player Portraits as an in-app purchase" It's quite a lot isn't it? I understand paying for the additional characters: the extra hours of content in the shape of an NPC specific-quest, the extra NPC and his interaction with the other characters (I bought Sebastian for DA2 and don't regret it :>) The thing is you might never encounter an NPC in the game so you wouldn't miss him. Yes, you might enjoy having him but you wouldn't miss him. During some of my runs I didn't stop at the Friendly Arms Inn before heading with Xzar and Monty to solve the iron problem and Jaheira and Khalid never met the PC. But you choose the sounds and portrait at character creation. Couldn't they have at least added the voice sets and portraits to the game purchase, for balance? I mean you copy your saves from your PC version to your iPad version (saying you bought 2 copies) and suddenly you're missing a portrait unless you pay and extra 2,3 dollars?
As I said, I don't blame them for their marketing strategies I just don't consider them diametrically opposed to companies such as Bioware or EA in terms of content providing strategy. And it should be said that I love that they will be providing free DLCs after release. Other companies charge for the smallest things: "Feastday Item Pack for DA:O" with butterfly swords and other such silliness? Seriously? )
@neleothesze well, i guess this is where i understand what you're saying, but at the same time, when you purchase everything that's in the pc version, the final price for both is exactly the same, which i think does keep it fair. but for what they leave out, it's all the new content, so what you're getting on ipad is a brand new unique game to the ipad. On gog, bg1 and totsc sells for 10 usd, if i'm not mistaken, so they're just porting it. In this case, i would say that it gives you options. Now, if the game was selling for 10 on apple store with all the new content and we were being charged 20, i would be complaining. if it was the other way around, i would be complaining. it's all a matter of what a person considers fair. If this was a brand new game for 50 usd, and then we had to pay an extra 10-20 for all the new content, again, i don't consider this fair.
plus, the ipad version does have all the new ui features like zooming in and such, it's just that the new voices/pics and such. But i have to ask you, for this game, what would make up the extra 10 usd? the black pits? not so sure about that yet and will have to try it. to be honest, if i get an ipad and pick up the game, i like the fact that i can just get the 10 usd version as i don't mind male voice 2. It reminds me of something from my childhood that i've never been able to place so i'll probably use that one anyways.
also, we don't know the full details of how they'll do it but i'm sure it'll be a package deal, like all the portraits will be 1 usd, each char 2 usd, or something like that.
but here's the thing with EA. The prothean was finished and they took it out of the game and still charged full price for the game and then made you pay 10 usd if you wanted the game. the comparison you're making is if beamdog was taking out all that content, still charging 20 for it on the ipad, and then making you pay 10 usd for the new content. on any platform really. plus, unlike ea, beamdog let us know what it was doing and never lied about it. ea said the prothean was started after the game was being printed, which is a lie because then no files would be on the disk. also, the two dlc in me2 weren't on the disk, but they claimed they did the same thing with me2? i've looked through the orginal disk, they're not on there.
if you don't agree that's cool, but i see this as apples to oranges, smart business taking care of it's fans compared to lying overcharing and treating fans like crap. *shrughs*
I don't know much about recent games or companies. From what I have seen so far, I can say that the people from Overhaul/Beamdog are really great guys. They are open to suggestions, provide feedback etc... They are close to their "fans" so to speak. Also, the decision to continue working on Baldur's Gate is more than admirable. Now the BG community seems more cohesive than ever. And this forum, its design and users and functionalities... It's like Christmas.
*sigh* I'm not sure that I feel the same angst toward BioWare that others do. They tried a different direction with DA2 and it didn't quite 'work'. Aside from that, my sample size has ME2 - a very solid game - and The Old Republic. The latter was not a disappointment, for it was exactly what I expected. KOTOR fans didn't want an MMO, so the die hards didn't stick with it. At least, that's my explanation. Seriously, I got it, fearing (all along) that the MMO-ness of the game would turn me off.
It did...
Anyway, haven't played ME3 yet. I, like somebody mentioned, am waiting for the GOTY version and whatnot. I don't know if the DLC fiasco had to do with money grabs, an EA plan or some other such nonsense. In a way, I don't much care - not because I agree with what happened, but because I know that the internet spreads information rapidly and angry customers don't pay $59.95 USD for games from people that do that too often.
@neleothesze At least in the orginal game you can change your portrait and voiceset at any point during the game.
@Humanoid_Taifun Yes but for newcomers to the game, imagine how it would be to pick a portrait/sound and then, when porting the game, find out that the asset could not be recognised or something because it was part of the new portraits or new sounds you hand't paid extra for. I agree that the extra is minimal. 1$ is what you give to the man singing at the corner of the street...
@Bjjorick My initial point was that there was a lot of stuff they added as 'in-app purchase' when it could have easily been in the full game and made the things which made sense to put in a separate purchase 50 cents or 75 cents more expensive.
For example: not everyone will play multiplayer. That's a given for any single player game. Having multiplayer is nice but it's a perk not a must-have. So why not make the Black Pits a separate purchase? *50% of the fanbase will probably want to play with all-made characters. *80% will want to check out the new portraits. put the portraits in the game and make the Black Pits a DLC. Problem with this is that only *50% would download a Black Pits DLC instead of *80% for a portrait and sound DLC
And please don't get me wrong, this is a good, sound strategy. But not much different than what EA does or what Free To Pay MMOs do. They give you cherries and bananas and pink cotton candy but they know that secretly you just want the chocolate and you will pay money to buy that chocolate. Otherwise the Free to Play model wouldn't work. And while I may not buy stuff others will, and it keeps the ball rolling for these companies. There is a game out there: Allods. I both loved and absolutely hated that game. The art is wonderful, the classes are interesting and the story is great. But it's FTP MMO and I just cba to pay for a potion. I cba. I paid 4 or 5 years for WoW but that was a subscription and for my measly 15$ or however much it was, I got over 80 hours/month. That's 18 cents / hour. And I could pay for 200 potions with the money I made ingame in 1 hour.
I don't really see the problem with DLC, first-day or otherwise: in fact, I'm pretty keen on it. It just seems like a strategy to make the game available at different price points, which is in consumers' interests. Suppose half the customers only value the game at $60, and the other half value it at $80. With DLC, you get an average of $70 per game. Without DLC, you either sell it at $60 and make only $60 per game, or you sell it at $80, get half the sales, and so in effect only get $40 per game.
That benefits the customer, because the person who pays $60 gets a better quality game (the developer now has $70 per game of income to justify the game costs, not $60) and the person who pays $80 gets the DLC. It's not as if the person who pays $60 was going to get the DLC content if DLC wasn't available: the company has less income, and so makes less content.
“Players rant, they know nothing about this DLC that’s coming out other than its name and it’s like “the game must be incomplete, the game must be ruined.”
“Game developers are not evil… we just want to release awesome stuff. So players, please give us a chance, judge our games based on what they are, judge the DLC based on what it is, and stop thinking you’ra producer and telling us when and where we should be building our content.”
This sounds reasonable to me. People are upset that two separate but related products aren't packaged together for free. That's absurd. I don't think there's a consumer base on the planet more self-entitled than gamers.
“This sounds reasonable to me. People are upset that two separate but related products aren't packaged to together for free. That's absurd. I don't think there's a consumer base on the planet more self-entitled than gamers.
@neleothesze: I wish more people would follow @TrentOster on Twitter and stay updated that way. *sigh* Look, the problem concerning the apps in the Applestore isn't because of Beamdog or the Oster team, it's because of Apple itself. Apple wanted the apps to be distributed that way, and the Oster team had to basically deal with it. They aren't to blame, it's Apple who's being a PITA, so to speak.
“Players rant, they know nothing about this DLC that’s coming out other than its name and it’s like “the game must be incomplete, the game must be ruined.”
“Game developers are not evil… we just want to release awesome stuff. So players, please give us a chance, judge our games based on what they are, judge the DLC based on what it is, and stop thinking you’ra producer and telling us when and where we should be building our content.”
This sounds reasonable to me. People are upset that two separate but related products aren't packaged together for free. That's absurd. I don't think there's a consumer base on the planet more self-entitled than gamers.
I judged from EAware's DLCs that EAware has gone the corporate greed route. So that makes me entitled? Get over yourself. The evidence is there, many people are just too blind or too eager to throw money at the feet of their developer overlords to realise that they're being screwed and milked. That's what.
@neleothesze: I wish more people would follow @TrentOster on Twitter and stay updated that way. *sigh* Look, the problem concerning the apps in the Applestore isn't because of Beamdog or the Oster team, it's because of Apple itself. Apple wanted the apps to be distributed that way, and the Oster team had to basically deal with it. They aren't to blame, it's Apple who's being a PITA, so to speak.
@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud I wish more people would read the whole series of posts not just the last. :P So I'm going to quote myself: "how can you make your argument as 'ea vs beamdog' when on the main page of the site there is a little * that links you to some tiny print saying that for mobile 2 of the characters are not free but buyable dlc? edit: the exact wording is 'in-app purchases'." My reply came as a reaction to the comment that EA is taking advantage of customers by not offering the full product and Beamdog is, on the other hand, offering the full product. I did in no way blame the BGEE team or vilify them. I simply stated that they could have chosen different parts of the game to turn into DLCs. Apple doesn't know what BG fans would prioritise, the BG team has some idea.
I pay good money for awesome games, so Bioware can continue to make awesome games. If you don't want to pay the price of admission, just say so. Don't act like you're taking some kind of intellectual high ground or that Bioware is running some kind of con. They're a business. Businesses need to make a profit to stay in business.
@Schneidend for free huh, so you didn't pay 60 usd for a game that already had unlockable content the moment you bought it? well then i guess you wouldn't mind paying the 10 usd for an extra char.
For free huh? *tries to remember one game that was free in the past decade that didn't try to milk money out of me at every turn.....THINKS HARD..........head starts to hurt* nope, can't think of a single free game i've played that i didn't borrow from a friend. so i'm entilted because i want a complete game for my money? That's like saying i paid for a full meal (that comes with dessert) and then when i get the bill, i'm charged for the full meal, plus the cost of the booth i'm sitting in, the fork I didn't have to use (after all, it's NOT needed to eat), the cup that the drink that i paid for was in, etc.
Yeah, a resturant could charge like that, but then, it wouldn't have anyone coming to eat there. same with the game companies, they can charge and then tell us that we're ungrateful, but they lost my business.
@neleothesze there's a difference, albiet small. Ea does what you said, gives you everything but what you want, and then sells you an overpriced piece of chocolate that you've been craving, only it's not good quality. Beamdog has let us know what's in the game, be it chocolate or what have you and is charging a very fair price for what seems to be a very well done EE game. I don't see them trying to milk me, now do i see them trying to tell me what i want and i sure as hell don't see them telling me to shut up, that i don't know what i want and to stop bitching and give them money because i don't know anything.
i'm slightly surprised you guys don't see a difference, or maybe i'm just too sensitive, but i think EA will do everything in their power to screw their 'fans' over, and i'm just not going to support it. I think it's evil.
@neleothesze: Well, pardon me then. I'm on my phone and can't see this particular statement you're making. But in any case, call me a die-hard believer, a fan girl or whatever, I believe the Oster team is far more honest than dipshit magnates like EA whose only goal is to make profit. Also, stop the 'entitlement' branding. I've heard that so friggin' much on the BSN that it's not even funny anymore. I just want game companies to work with clean business ethics and passion for games, but even that is too much to ask for nowadays. What's happened to gaming, for fuck's sake? What happened to my favourite game developer? Why can't the folks at EAware, as I now call them, see that what they're doing is saddening? It's SO very frustrating to have such little say in the matter, being just one gamer amongst thousands of others... Sorry, had to vent a bit. Not towards you, @neleothesze, but in general.
@Bjjorick How many DLCs have you bought to be able to tell that EA sells an overpriced piece of chocolate? In the end the developers have a word to say not just the publisher. For example Bioware had, in my opinion, 50% correctly priced pieces of chocolate and 50% inflated
edit: ok, 30% 70% :P
edit2: @Kitteh_On_A_Cloud just go vent @ someone else :P You're filling my inbox with swear words that aren't even directed at me :P Please
Also, the 'entitlement' thing is because @Schneidend mentioned it...Whenever I see that term, I figuratively start seeing red. I'm tired of gamers being called entitled whiners just because of them pointing out what's going wrong in the gaming industry.
@Schneidend for free huh, so you didn't pay 60 usd for a game that already had unlockable content the moment you bought it? well then i guess you wouldn't mind paying the 10 usd for an extra char.
For free huh? *tries to remember one game that was free in the past decade that didn't try to milk money out of me at every turn.....THINKS HARD..........head starts to hurt* nope, can't think of a single free game i've played that i didn't borrow from a friend. so i'm entilted because i want a complete game for my money? That's like saying i paid for a full meal (that comes with dessert) and then when i get the bill, i'm charged for the full meal, plus the cost of the booth i'm sitting in, the fork I didn't have to use (after all, it's NOT needed to eat), the cup that the drink that i paid for was in, etc.
I bought the Collector's Edition to support the franchise, and got From Ashes as well as a bunch of other stuff for my 10 extra dollars. Satisfied customer.
Don't be obtuse. I didn't say you wanted the whole thing for free (although the way some gamers talk I wouldn't be surprised), just that you want a separate DLC to come with the game all for $60. That is ridiculous. That would be like demanding they give you TotSC free when it originally came out. All the sprites and data are on the BG1 discs, right?
@Kitteh_On_A-Cloud Well, get ready to see plenty of red, because gamers as a consumer base are the most self-entitled bunch of whiners on the face of this planet. They even have the audacity to demand a game be fundamentally changed POST-RELEASE, and if the unfortunate company does bow to their whims, well god help them if the consumers don't get that change absolutely free of charge. Nobody is out to get you, and it isn't within your power to dictate how companies perfectly fairly sell their products.
Vote with your wallet if you don't like the product, but don't act like you're some kind of enlightened rebel standing up to greedy tyrants.
@schenidend well, if totsc had come out the same day/week of the orginal bg, i would have said something. also, if it was teh same price as the game, i would have said something. from the ashes was 1/6th the price of the full game, but was it 1/6th the content? hell no, it was honestly just a last minute decision to take it out of the game to make a quick buck. you asked for proof that it was on the disk, but when shown that it was on the disk you never responded. If you did, i missed it. i think that you should get what you pay for, but day 1 dlc is not a good sign. day 1 patch i understand as things do pop up late in the beta test that doesn't make it in time for the gold/disk printing, but a patch is small. ashes was not.
@neleothesze okay, i gave you all that i have to explain how this is different. you say that beamdog is doing the exact same thing, so tell me, what would you do differently for the ipad market to make it fair? also, i think most people who try to transfer the game over will realize that they got the game much cheaper and won't be overly upset that it doesn't have the full content. But i could be mistaken.
But please, not being mean or sarcastic, what do you think should be done differenty?
@neleothesze okay, i gave you all that i have to explain how this is different. you say that beamdog is doing the exact same thing, so tell me, what would you do differently for the ipad market to make it fair? also, i think most people who try to transfer the game over will realize that they got the game much cheaper and won't be overly upset that it doesn't have the full content. But i could be mistaken.
But please, not being mean or sarcastic, what do you think should be done differenty?
I think they should put Black Pits for $3.99 All the work they put into it deserves at least that much. I think they should put 1 character for $2.99. I think the game should be $12.99 It deserves at least that much. ----- $20. People get 2 characters + voice sets + portraits + a truckload of fixes + new UI.
allow me to add 1 cent to each of your numbers @neleothesze
13 for the game plus 4 for black pits plus 3 per char x 2 chars (only char the ipad is getting is the monk char) = 23 usd. unless you think that both chars should come for the 3 usd. but one of the reason that they're charging the 1 usd for the protriats was that it is their own content, and that's where they expect to make the majority of the money. In all honestly, i thought they should have charged 30 for the release of the game, but thanks to preorder, i get it for nearly half that price. I'm sure that they would have offered a discounted preorder to ipad and other systems if apple had allowed it.
I mean, the difference i see here is that they seem to be bending over backwards to help people out and give them what they want. They're putting the game on mac as most people have gone away from windows over the years and the android i assume is a phone and my wife has an ipad, but she works on that. I tried to play games on it before, but she lets me have a nice pc so i don't disturb her
but okay, you're saying that the game should be that price for the ipad or for all versions? i honestly think they're trying to stay away from dlc, but they need to price competitively on the ipad where i'm told most apps are 10 usd. If they charge 20 out the gate, people will say it's overpriced.
It's all a matter of perspective i guess and i'm not trying to say i'm right and you're wrong, all i can say is that i do support beamdog in the way that they're handling this and seeing how hard they're trying to make all the old fans happy while drawing in new fans has earned my respect.
I don't think the idea of being "overpriced" or "underpriced" makes sense here (where we're talking about non-essential purchases from private companies). If it's overpriced for you, by definition you won't buy it.
As an example, I've spent about 300 hours playing Mass Effect games, at something like $0.75 per hour. I'd have happily spent at least four times that much, so in that sense they're underpriced for me. For other people, less so - but that doesn't seem to have anything to do with corporate ethics. (The same's true for BG2 to an even bigger degree.)
There's a separate question about how the total sales income for a computer game compares with its production costs. But I have no idea about the answer to that question, and I doubt anyone else commenting here does either. (Certainly, the current financial state of the single-player computer game industry doesn't suggest to me that they're rolling around in extensive profit - to say nothing of the fact that if they were, I'd expect them to be undercutting each other more than they do.)
Ok read most of the article and the posts here.... A. Im not blindly Pro-Corporation but I am not a rabid corporation hater either, B. The idea that a COMPANY find ways to create and make products the CUSTOMER wants to pay for is a good thing. C. The Customer doesnt have to pay and if the corporation makes bad product people shouldnt buy. (Thats what reviews are for)
I find it silly for people to rabidly invest money on something based only on past products (ie Pre-Orders), you need to look at the people creating the product not the company not the game title.... I invested in Wasteland 2 Kickstarter because I know what the people involved did before. Same as I am trying to support BG:EE....not because its Baldur's Gate but because I think the people at Beamdog have a proven track record and will make a good product that is Baldur's Gate.
Companies...ALL companies exist to make a profit, weather its a mom and pop grocery store or a Mega Corporation. Those that deliver stay alive and gripe as much as you want but if enough people are happy enough with the product the company will stay alive.
I agree people shouldnt get suckered with half finished products but I also agree the the company should find every way possible to give the fans what they want for a price....annd I see FAR too many people wanting something for nothing and their chicks for free. (to paraphrase Dire Straits)
@schenidend well, if totsc had come out the same day/week of the orginal bg, i would have said something. also, if it was teh same price as the game, i would have said something. from the ashes was 1/6th the price of the full game, but was it 1/6th the content? hell no, it was honestly just a last minute decision to take it out of the game to make a quick buck. you asked for proof that it was on the disk, but when shown that it was on the disk you never responded. If you did, i missed it. i think that you should get what you pay for, but day 1 dlc is not a good sign. day 1 patch i understand as things do pop up late in the beta test that doesn't make it in time for the gold/disk printing, but a patch is small. ashes was not.
TotSC was like $20-30 when it came out, while BG1 was, what, $50? Was TotSC 40-60% of BG1's content? Hell no.
Bioware put in extra work to make Ashes, work they deemed was worth $10. Rather than make the regular edition of ME3 $70, they gave you the option of not purchasing that entirely optional content. Is having the last prothean on your ship neat? Is the Prothean Particle Rifle a cool gun? Yeah, but you don't need either of them to have a full ME3 experience. Javik isn't a scientist, so he's not even vaguely important to the main plot of the game. It's a mini-expansion and they charged an entry fee as such. There's nothing duplicitous going on here other than the fact that you don't want to have to pay the Ashes team for their hard work and instead expect to receive it for free.
@schneidend so you don't think there will come a day when the people who make the games will do that? maybe that's not what was going on here, but we all know that the game studios test the water by making something look the be the case, and if the people don't care, then they know they can get away with it from then on. To be honest, i'm pretty much done with modern gaming. I don't see the need for the things that most of you are perfectly okay with so i honestly guess my opinion is just my own.
at the end of the day, if you were happy with me3, i'm glad. i found it to be horrible, great production values, but next to nothing of the original game was still in there in, imho.
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Same with Dragon age. I put i 50 or 60 hours first play through, and probably another 70 on later playthroughs. DA2, after 10 hours, i just couldn't bear it anymore. ME and DA show me that the bioware i loved is gone..... BUT, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, it seems most of the people who's work i enjoyed so much are a part of beamdog, so i will be watching this company closely and supporting them until such a point as i realize that i was wrong or they get involved with EA, and from what i've seen so far, that's something Trent would never do.
But for your question, the game is roughly 20 usd to buy except for the ipad version. Most things coming out of the apple store are 10 dollar apps. Not sure if that's an apple limit or what, so to make it fair, they broke up the content and are selling the game for 10 usd and those that want the extras can pay a grand total of 10 usd for everything or break it up and get this for a few dollars.
Maybe i'm a hypocrite, but i realize that if they gave the full game for 10 usd on the apple store, and 20 everywhere else, people would be screaming blood. If they made the game 10 usd, they wouldn't make any money. I think 20 is honestly cheap for this, but i understand they need to be competitive.
So basically the game is 20 usd, but they're selling most of the game for 10 for the sake of either being competitive or otherwise, and i honestly like that strategy. Lots of people will buy it for pc and ipad, but if they didn't like part of the new content, say dorn, they can get the game cheaper.
Let me know what you think and if you think i'm being hypocritical, please let me know. i promise not to take offense of get my feelings hurt, but i love to debate/see opposing viewpoints, and i deffinately welcome yours.
If you take into account tablet versions will require more work because of their different interface (touch screens) and the fact multi or imported save from PC will not be broken (DLC char not disappearing), I think their plan is fair.
Why not leave a small portion out and those who want to support Beamdog buy if for 9.99 (9.99 game + this = the full $20 price tag)? Instead they leave out:
"New Character: Dorn Il-Khan as an in-app purchase
New Character: Neera the Wild Mage as an in-app purchase
New Player Voice sets as an in-app purchase
New Player Portraits as an in-app purchase" It's quite a lot isn't it?
I understand paying for the additional characters: the extra hours of content in the shape of an NPC specific-quest, the extra NPC and his interaction with the other characters (I bought Sebastian for DA2 and don't regret it :>)
The thing is you might never encounter an NPC in the game so you wouldn't miss him. Yes, you might enjoy having him but you wouldn't miss him. During some of my runs I didn't stop at the Friendly Arms Inn before heading with Xzar and Monty to solve the iron problem and Jaheira and Khalid never met the PC.
But you choose the sounds and portrait at character creation. Couldn't they have at least added the voice sets and portraits to the game purchase, for balance? I mean you copy your saves from your PC version to your iPad version (saying you bought 2 copies) and suddenly you're missing a portrait unless you pay and extra 2,3 dollars?
As I said, I don't blame them for their marketing strategies I just don't consider them diametrically opposed to companies such as Bioware or EA in terms of content providing strategy.
plus, the ipad version does have all the new ui features like zooming in and such, it's just that the new voices/pics and such. But i have to ask you, for this game, what would make up the extra 10 usd? the black pits? not so sure about that yet and will have to try it. to be honest, if i get an ipad and pick up the game, i like the fact that i can just get the 10 usd version as i don't mind male voice 2. It reminds me of something from my childhood that i've never been able to place so i'll probably use that one anyways.
also, we don't know the full details of how they'll do it but i'm sure it'll be a package deal, like all the portraits will be 1 usd, each char 2 usd, or something like that.
but here's the thing with EA. The prothean was finished and they took it out of the game and still charged full price for the game and then made you pay 10 usd if you wanted the game. the comparison you're making is if beamdog was taking out all that content, still charging 20 for it on the ipad, and then making you pay 10 usd for the new content. on any platform really. plus, unlike ea, beamdog let us know what it was doing and never lied about it. ea said the prothean was started after the game was being printed, which is a lie because then no files would be on the disk. also, the two dlc in me2 weren't on the disk, but they claimed they did the same thing with me2? i've looked through the orginal disk, they're not on there.
if you don't agree that's cool, but i see this as apples to oranges, smart business taking care of it's fans compared to lying overcharing and treating fans like crap. *shrughs*
At least in the orginal game you can change your portrait and voiceset at any point during the game.
It did...
Anyway, haven't played ME3 yet. I, like somebody mentioned, am waiting for the GOTY version and whatnot. I don't know if the DLC fiasco had to do with money grabs, an EA plan or some other such nonsense. In a way, I don't much care - not because I agree with what happened, but because I know that the internet spreads information rapidly and angry customers don't pay $59.95 USD for games from people that do that too often.
@Bjjorick My initial point was that there was a lot of stuff they added as 'in-app purchase' when it could have easily been in the full game and made the things which made sense to put in a separate purchase 50 cents or 75 cents more expensive.
For example: not everyone will play multiplayer. That's a given for any single player game. Having multiplayer is nice but it's a perk not a must-have. So why not make the Black Pits a separate purchase?
*50% of the fanbase will probably want to play with all-made characters.
*80% will want to check out the new portraits.
put the portraits in the game and make the Black Pits a DLC.
Problem with this is that only
*50% would download a Black Pits DLC
instead of
*80% for a portrait and sound DLC
And please don't get me wrong, this is a good, sound strategy. But not much different than what EA does or what Free To Pay MMOs do. They give you cherries and bananas and pink cotton candy but they know that secretly you just want the chocolate and you will pay money to buy that chocolate. Otherwise the Free to Play model wouldn't work. And while I may not buy stuff others will, and it keeps the ball rolling for these companies. There is a game out there: Allods. I both loved and absolutely hated that game. The art is wonderful, the classes are interesting and the story is great. But it's FTP MMO and I just cba to pay for a potion. I cba. I paid 4 or 5 years for WoW but that was a subscription and for my measly 15$ or however much it was, I got over 80 hours/month. That's 18 cents / hour. And I could pay for 200 potions with the money I made ingame in 1 hour.
That benefits the customer, because the person who pays $60 gets a better quality game (the developer now has $70 per game of income to justify the game costs, not $60) and the person who pays $80 gets the DLC. It's not as if the person who pays $60 was going to get the DLC content if DLC wasn't available: the company has less income, and so makes less content.
“Game developers are not evil… we just want to release awesome stuff. So players, please give us a chance, judge our games based on what they are, judge the DLC based on what it is, and stop thinking you’ra producer and telling us when and where we should be building our content.”
This sounds reasonable to me. People are upset that two separate but related products aren't packaged together for free. That's absurd. I don't think there's a consumer base on the planet more self-entitled than gamers.
My reply came as a reaction to the comment that EA is taking advantage of customers by not offering the full product and Beamdog is, on the other hand, offering the full product.
I did in no way blame the BGEE team or vilify them. I simply stated that they could have chosen different parts of the game to turn into DLCs. Apple doesn't know what BG fans would prioritise, the BG team has some idea.
For free huh? *tries to remember one game that was free in the past decade that didn't try to milk money out of me at every turn.....THINKS HARD..........head starts to hurt* nope, can't think of a single free game i've played that i didn't borrow from a friend. so i'm entilted because i want a complete game for my money? That's like saying i paid for a full meal (that comes with dessert) and then when i get the bill, i'm charged for the full meal, plus the cost of the booth i'm sitting in, the fork I didn't have to use (after all, it's NOT needed to eat), the cup that the drink that i paid for was in, etc.
Yeah, a resturant could charge like that, but then, it wouldn't have anyone coming to eat there. same with the game companies, they can charge and then tell us that we're ungrateful, but they lost my business.
@neleothesze
there's a difference, albiet small. Ea does what you said, gives you everything but what you want, and then sells you an overpriced piece of chocolate that you've been craving, only it's not good quality. Beamdog has let us know what's in the game, be it chocolate or what have you and is charging a very fair price for what seems to be a very well done EE game. I don't see them trying to milk me, now do i see them trying to tell me what i want and i sure as hell don't see them telling me to shut up, that i don't know what i want and to stop bitching and give them money because i don't know anything.
i'm slightly surprised you guys don't see a difference, or maybe i'm just too sensitive, but i think EA will do everything in their power to screw their 'fans' over, and i'm just not going to support it. I think it's evil.
edit: ok, 30% 70% :P
edit2: @Kitteh_On_A_Cloud just go vent @ someone else :P You're filling my inbox with swear words that aren't even directed at me :P Please
Don't be obtuse. I didn't say you wanted the whole thing for free (although the way some gamers talk I wouldn't be surprised), just that you want a separate DLC to come with the game all for $60. That is ridiculous. That would be like demanding they give you TotSC free when it originally came out. All the sprites and data are on the BG1 discs, right?
@Kitteh_On_A-Cloud
Well, get ready to see plenty of red, because gamers as a consumer base are the most self-entitled bunch of whiners on the face of this planet. They even have the audacity to demand a game be fundamentally changed POST-RELEASE, and if the unfortunate company does bow to their whims, well god help them if the consumers don't get that change absolutely free of charge. Nobody is out to get you, and it isn't within your power to dictate how companies perfectly fairly sell their products.
Vote with your wallet if you don't like the product, but don't act like you're some kind of enlightened rebel standing up to greedy tyrants.
@neleothesze okay, i gave you all that i have to explain how this is different. you say that beamdog is doing the exact same thing, so tell me, what would you do differently for the ipad market to make it fair? also, i think most people who try to transfer the game over will realize that they got the game much cheaper and won't be overly upset that it doesn't have the full content. But i could be mistaken.
But please, not being mean or sarcastic, what do you think should be done differenty?
I think they should put 1 character for $2.99.
I think the game should be $12.99 It deserves at least that much.
-----
$20.
People get 2 characters + voice sets + portraits + a truckload of fixes + new UI.
13 for the game plus 4 for black pits plus 3 per char x 2 chars (only char the ipad is getting is the monk char) = 23 usd. unless you think that both chars should come for the 3 usd. but one of the reason that they're charging the 1 usd for the protriats was that it is their own content, and that's where they expect to make the majority of the money. In all honestly, i thought they should have charged 30 for the release of the game, but thanks to preorder, i get it for nearly half that price. I'm sure that they would have offered a discounted preorder to ipad and other systems if apple had allowed it.
I mean, the difference i see here is that they seem to be bending over backwards to help people out and give them what they want. They're putting the game on mac as most people have gone away from windows over the years and the android i assume is a phone and my wife has an ipad, but she works on that. I tried to play games on it before, but she lets me have a nice pc so i don't disturb her
but okay, you're saying that the game should be that price for the ipad or for all versions? i honestly think they're trying to stay away from dlc, but they need to price competitively on the ipad where i'm told most apps are 10 usd. If they charge 20 out the gate, people will say it's overpriced.
It's all a matter of perspective i guess and i'm not trying to say i'm right and you're wrong, all i can say is that i do support beamdog in the way that they're handling this and seeing how hard they're trying to make all the old fans happy while drawing in new fans has earned my respect.
As an example, I've spent about 300 hours playing Mass Effect games, at something like $0.75 per hour. I'd have happily spent at least four times that much, so in that sense they're underpriced for me. For other people, less so - but that doesn't seem to have anything to do with corporate ethics. (The same's true for BG2 to an even bigger degree.)
There's a separate question about how the total sales income for a computer game compares with its production costs. But I have no idea about the answer to that question, and I doubt anyone else commenting here does either. (Certainly, the current financial state of the single-player computer game industry doesn't suggest to me that they're rolling around in extensive profit - to say nothing of the fact that if they were, I'd expect them to be undercutting each other more than they do.)
I find it silly for people to rabidly invest money on something based only on past products (ie Pre-Orders), you need to look at the people creating the product not the company not the game title.... I invested in Wasteland 2 Kickstarter because I know what the people involved did before. Same as I am trying to support BG:EE....not because its Baldur's Gate but because I think the people at Beamdog have a proven track record and will make a good product that is Baldur's Gate.
Companies...ALL companies exist to make a profit, weather its a mom and pop grocery store or a Mega Corporation. Those that deliver stay alive and gripe as much as you want but if enough people are happy enough with the product the company will stay alive.
I agree people shouldnt get suckered with half finished products but I also agree the the company should find every way possible to give the fans what they want for a price....annd I see FAR too many people wanting something for nothing and their chicks for free. (to paraphrase Dire Straits)
Bioware put in extra work to make Ashes, work they deemed was worth $10. Rather than make the regular edition of ME3 $70, they gave you the option of not purchasing that entirely optional content. Is having the last prothean on your ship neat? Is the Prothean Particle Rifle a cool gun? Yeah, but you don't need either of them to have a full ME3 experience. Javik isn't a scientist, so he's not even vaguely important to the main plot of the game. It's a mini-expansion and they charged an entry fee as such. There's nothing duplicitous going on here other than the fact that you don't want to have to pay the Ashes team for their hard work and instead expect to receive it for free.
at the end of the day, if you were happy with me3, i'm glad. i found it to be horrible, great production values, but next to nothing of the original game was still in there in, imho.