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[MOD] Improved Archer Kit (for BGEE, BG2EE, IWD:EE and original BG2/BGT)

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  • Dan_PDan_P Member Posts: 129
    Hi @argent77 , I noticed a while back a few errors with the current version v3.2. I know you're probably doing more updates eventually and maybe even fixed these already but I thought I'd post this here if anyone wants a quick fix before the next update. Specifically, these were the issues I noticed,

    Blessed Bolts
    - all bolts were doing 1d6 instead of the listed 1d8 damage

    Bow Paladin (both bg and iwd)
    - was not getting +hit/damage every 6 levels

    Bow Paladin (iwd-specific)
    - was learning explosive arrow every 4 levels, starting from level 8, except at level 24, where it was learning an extra create blessed ammo (it shouldn't be getting any of these)

    The files I uploaded fix these issues in both games. It's just edits to some 2da and itm files and can be extracted directly over the mod before installing or reinstalling.

    Another thing I noticed, Bow Paladin doesn't learn Lay On Hands. I suspect this was intended but wasn't sure because there's nothing in the description. I've included two patches, one with Lay On Hands and one without, with a line of text added to disadvantages.
  • Dan_PDan_P Member Posts: 129
    edited June 2021
    Also, I thought I'd give a balance opinion since I saw others do the same. This is a separate post because I didn't want the other to get too bloated. I like the overall direction of the changes (though kit abilities aren't 100% how I'd do them). However, I feel like +hit/damage every 6 levels is too big a downgrade compared to the original archer kit. You'd end up with only +1 at the end of BG1, taking away from the fun of progression.

    My suggestion, +1 to hit/damage at level 1 plus an additional +1 every 5 levels thereafter (6, 11, 16, etc). This way, all the kits end up at +2 at the end of BG1, but with slower progression than the original kit. I'd also remove the AC bonus to missile. I don't see a reason for archers to be better at avoiding a throwing axe than melee fighters.

    To balance the early +1 to hit/damage, I'd restrict the archer from using the offhand (so no shield or dual wielding) because they need a free hand ready to grab arrows. I don't know if this is possible but that's just the idea I had for it. If it's not possible, maybe reduce or remove the crit bonuses. Unless I'm mistaken, the crit bonus is also for melee as well as ranged, which doesn't seem to fit.

    I'm also not sure if Sharpshooter needs worse bonuses than the others. Even with faster leveling, Thac0 will still be worse than the other kits. Maybe restrict proficiency to Mastery if you don't want the damage bonus to be higher. The current version doesn't feel like a better archer than a fighter/thief, taking into account the higher apr.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,474
    @dp85 Thank you for the feedback and the fixes! I'm currently in the middle of updating all of my mods. I'll look into the issues more closely soon, when I start overhauling the Improved Archer Kit.
  • Dan_PDan_P Member Posts: 129
    Another post but I gave it some more thought and I actually think I don't like restricting the offhand so I wanted to mention that. It seems like too much of a penalty. Limiting melee proficiency is probably enough of a drawback. A player that wants to restrict offhand usage thematically can choose to do so without it being enforced by the kit. I wish there was a way to take away the 2 pips in two weapon style for the regular Archer though.

    Instead, I think a better way to do the hit/damage bonuses that works for both bg1 and bg2 is start at 3rd level, than every 5 levels thereafter (so 3, 8, 13, 18, etc.). This way, you get the first bonus at the same time as the original kit, but have slower growth after. The second bonus won't be until later in BG1. The extra abilities and crit bonuses make up for the slower growth in BG2. In BG1, all kits would end up with +2 bonus at the cap.

    In IWD, kits would cap out at +2 or +3 at Core Rules which, considering how strong some of the bows are, is more than enough. Sharpshooter at the level 30 cap (if playing on higher difficulties), would reach +6 bonus, instead of capping at +3 with the current version, matching the Swashbuckler bonuses. If limited to just Mastery in bows, I don't think it would be too strong compared to other Thief kits. Swashbuckler would be better melee and assassin would have a better "Called Shot" ability with the IWD version of Poison Weapon.

    Also, with the crit bonuses, if you're planning to keep them. I'd bump up the level of the first 2 bonuses, so levels 10, 14, and 18. I'd actually suggest making it 2 bonuses only at 14 and 18, but if doing 3, I like 10, 14, 18 better. Giving the first two bonuses at 9 and 13 feels too optimal for dual classing a Marksman. Dual classing is already too strong. By bumping it up to 10 and 14, you force players to make a choice. Do you want to dual class and don't get the crit bonus, or stay single class with the higher crits.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,474
    edited July 2021
    @dp85 Getting back to your feedback, I'm currently overhauling all kits of the mod, especially the "Create Ammo" ability. Blessed ammo sounded like a cool feature when I initially created the mod, but I eventually came to realize that it's not really suitable for a ranger whose connection to the gods is peripheral at best.

    The new system may still rely somewhat on divine support, but it's more focused on mundane features. The other kits (marksman, bow knight and sharpshooter) will also get their own tailor-made "Create ammo" ability, with the fighter and thief kits using conventional ammo crafting in place of conjuration.

    You're right that that there were some issues with the ammo creation, which not only applied to the incorrectly listed damage output but also defined illegal attributes for arrows and bolts. The bugs you mentioned (and several more) will also be fixed.

    About missing "Lay on Hands" for the Bow Knight, I don't think it's out of place for that kit. I see the Bow Knight as the counterpart to the Cavalier (which can actually use Lay On Hands, btw), so I might add it to the Bow Knight as well.

    Restricting off-hand or shield usage is not really feasible with this engine. It wouldn't really make much of a difference anyway since weapon styles are already nerfed.

    To hit and damage bonus progression is also being reworked. It should now be more effective within the BG1 level cap.

    About the critical hit bonuses. I might limit it to two points for the fighter/ranger/paladin kits and a single point for the thief kit, since this is actually a pretty powerful bonus.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,474
    New version: Improved Archer Kit v4.0

    This is a major update for the Improved Archer Kit. It provides a completely revised "Create ammunition" ability for all kits with enchantments which better suit the respective kits. For example, it never made sense to provide undead-slaying ammunition to Archers. They are now able to conjure ammo that inflicts elemental damage and various status penalties. The same applies to the Marksman, Bow Knight and Sharpshooter kits which provide their own unique enchantments. More details can be found in the readme.

    The update also rebalances the available kits, fixes several bugs and adds a couple of shortbows to IWD:EE to make investing proficiency points in that weapon type more worthwhile.

    Italian and Russian translations for this update are currently incomplete and will be provided when they're ready.

    Changelog:
    • Rebalanced passive bonuses for all kits
    • Removed "Power Shot" ability from Sharpshooter kit
    • Completely revised the "Create ammunition" ability for all kits
    • Adds several powerful shortbows to IWD:EE
    • Fixed incorrect abilities granted to Bow Knights
    • Fixed missing bonuses for Bow Knight and Marksman kit
  • mledmled Member Posts: 48
    Hi @argent77 , please look at https://github.com/Argent77/A7-ImprovedArcher/pull/4
    Installation of the first component fails when selecting "french" for language.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,474
    mled wrote: »
    Hi @argent77 , please look at https://github.com/Argent77/A7-ImprovedArcher/pull/4
    Installation of the first component fails when selecting "french" for language.

    Thank you for the report. I have updated the mod packages for version 4.0.
  • tl1942tl1942 Member Posts: 178
    Was just playing an archer charname for the first time ever, and while the class felt powerful, it also seemed a little boring.... I'll give this a try and see if it spices things up!
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,474
    tl1942 wrote: »
    Was just playing an archer charname for the first time ever, and while the class felt powerful, it also seemed a little boring.... I'll give this a try and see if it spices things up!

    Imo, Archers are boring to begin with, mainly because they are basically just fighters who specialize in ranged combat. The vanilla Archer kit provides the Called Shot ability which applies some stat penalties to the target. This mod adds a couple more abilities to give the kit more tactical options. Additional abilities can be unlocked with HLAs.
  • MordekaieMordekaie Member Posts: 269
    edited March 2022

    I am just testing your mod for my next EET install.

    Just noticing some HLAs modifications. What are your recommendation to install your mod along with Refinements ?

    While playing i found out that the improved archer doesn't get the Charm Animal Ability. This is no mentionned in the description.

    About personal opinions : i would probably allow archer to wear chain mail armors along with non metal armors; i would also give a +5% critical right at the beginning as a starting signature of the archer...
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,474
    Mordekaie wrote: »
    I am just testing your mod for my next EET install.

    Just noticing some HLAs modifications. What are your recommendation to install your mod along with Refinements ?
    From what I've seen Refinements doesn't overwrite existing HLAs, so I'd recommend to install Refinements after this mod.

    While playing i found out that the improved archer doesn't get the Charm Animal Ability. This is no mentionned in the description.
    You're right, I forgot to mention it in the kit description. Will be fixed in the next release.

    About personal opinions : i would probably allow archer to wear chain mail armors along with non metal armors; i would also give a +5% critical right at the beginning as a starting signature of the archer...
    I think sacrificing the ability to wear anything heavier than leather or hide armor is an acceptable price for having a superior marksmanship ability compared to the vanilla Ranger. One exception might be elven armor though.

    Afaik, the Tweaks Anthology component that allows thieving in heavy armor applies a hefty penalty of -40% to stealth when worn. I'd say that even hide armor or studded leather may be borderline problematic for Archers (which applies a -30% penalty, iirc).

    A 5% crit starting bonus shouldn't be too unbalancing since double damage can be prevented by wearing a helmet. I'll think about it.
  • MordekaieMordekaie Member Posts: 269
    "One exception might be elven armor though" :) I was thinking about those chain mails in particular.

    I will definitely include your mod in my must have list. I like very much the way you balance your kit.

    M&G with Revised Archery also proposes an interesting way of improving the Archer and an alternative to your mod (and it was hard to choose).

    There is also this other component "Improved Rangers" from M&G that should work fine with your mod.

    About Refinements and to be sure i understand correctly?
    - Your mod adds two new HLAs to the Archer without modifying the vanilla HLAs
    - Refinements makes modifications to the vanilla HLAs and will not overwrite/delete your new HLAs
  • MordekaieMordekaie Member Posts: 269
    I also found a "D2 modfix" that makes some changes to the the Improved Archer:
    7 - for Improved Archer v4 - fixed Sharpshooter kit gaining +1d6 Sneak Attack damage

    I found this D2 modfix here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/75663/kit-mod-the-artisans-kitpack

    What is your opinion ?
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,474
    Mordekaie wrote: »
    About Refinements and to be sure i understand correctly?
    - Your mod adds two new HLAs to the Archer without modifying the vanilla HLAs
    - Refinements makes modifications to the vanilla HLAs and will not overwrite/delete your new HLAs
    Not quite. I had originally coded the Archer kit mod as a replacement of the original Archer, so it replaces the original HLA table. I intended to change it when the mod was expanded to provide additional Archer-like kits, but it hasn't been implemented yet.

    I haven't looked at the HLA changes from Refinements too closely, so I'm not sure whether it modifies existing HLAs. However, it adds a couple new HLAs to the Ranger HLA table. One ability appears to be very similar to an ability added by the Improved Archer mod. The other abilities appear to be unique.
    Mordekaie wrote: »
    I also found a "D2 modfix" that makes some changes to the the Improved Archer:
    7 - for Improved Archer v4 - fixed Sharpshooter kit gaining +1d6 Sneak Attack damage

    I found this D2 modfix here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/75663/kit-mod-the-artisans-kitpack

    What is your opinion ?
    Sneak Attack is the 3e variant of backstab attacks that can be enabled in IWDEE. I haven't tested this tweak yet, but it sounds like an interesting bonus. In the end it probably doesn't make much difference, since Archer(-like) kits will be very effective even without it. In my last test run with a full party in IWDEE the archer contributed about 60% of all kills in the game. The Sharpshooter should be similarly effective.
  • Dan_PDan_P Member Posts: 129
    argent77 wrote: »
    Mordekaie wrote: »
    I also found a "D2 modfix" that makes some changes to the the Improved Archer:
    7 - for Improved Archer v4 - fixed Sharpshooter kit gaining +1d6 Sneak Attack damage

    I found this D2 modfix here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/75663/kit-mod-the-artisans-kitpack

    What is your opinion ?
    Sneak Attack is the 3e variant of backstab attacks that can be enabled in IWDEE. I haven't tested this tweak yet, but it sounds like an interesting bonus. In the end it probably doesn't make much difference, since Archer(-like) kits will be very effective even without it. In my last test run with a full party in IWDEE the archer contributed about 60% of all kills in the game. The Sharpshooter should be similarly effective.

    Just to note, this tweak (which I made) actually removes the +1d6 sneak attack from the kit by removing the line from sneakatt.2da. I added it since the kit description says it shouldn't be learning backstabs. By default, the kit was given a row of 1's, which adds +1d6 damage.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,474
    Dan_P wrote: »
    argent77 wrote: »
    Mordekaie wrote: »
    I also found a "D2 modfix" that makes some changes to the the Improved Archer:
    7 - for Improved Archer v4 - fixed Sharpshooter kit gaining +1d6 Sneak Attack damage

    I found this D2 modfix here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/75663/kit-mod-the-artisans-kitpack

    What is your opinion ?
    Sneak Attack is the 3e variant of backstab attacks that can be enabled in IWDEE. I haven't tested this tweak yet, but it sounds like an interesting bonus. In the end it probably doesn't make much difference, since Archer(-like) kits will be very effective even without it. In my last test run with a full party in IWDEE the archer contributed about 60% of all kills in the game. The Sharpshooter should be similarly effective.

    Just to note, this tweak (which I made) actually removes the +1d6 sneak attack from the kit by removing the line from sneakatt.2da. I added it since the kit description says it shouldn't be learning backstabs. By default, the kit was given a row of 1's, which adds +1d6 damage.

    Ah yes, you're right. The Sharpshooter is actually implemented with an entry in BACKSTAB.2DA (albeit only 1x) and SNEAKATT.2DA to emphasize the "sneaky" nature of the kit. There is none in CRIPPSTR.2DA though.
  • Dan_PDan_P Member Posts: 129
    argent77 wrote: »
    Ah yes, you're right. The Sharpshooter is actually implemented with an entry in BACKSTAB.2DA (albeit only 1x) and SNEAKATT.2DA to emphasize the "sneaky" nature of the kit. There is none in CRIPPSTR.2DA though.

    I saw that when looking at the 2das. Those are different things though. A row of 1's in backstab.2da gives no modifier, so functionally the same as not having a line (other than showing x1 instead of x0 in the Record screen). A row of 1's in sneakatt.2DA gives +1d6 damage on a sneak attack. My assumption was that the line in sneakatt.2da was a mistake. This is based on the kit description, which says no backstab, which I assumed also means no sneak attack (i.e. like the swashbuckler).
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,474
    Dan_P wrote: »
    argent77 wrote: »
    Ah yes, you're right. The Sharpshooter is actually implemented with an entry in BACKSTAB.2DA (albeit only 1x) and SNEAKATT.2DA to emphasize the "sneaky" nature of the kit. There is none in CRIPPSTR.2DA though.

    I saw that when looking at the 2das. Those are different things though. A row of 1's in backstab.2da gives no modifier, so functionally the same as not having a line (other than showing x1 instead of x0 in the Record screen). A row of 1's in sneakatt.2DA gives +1d6 damage on a sneak attack. My assumption was that the line in sneakatt.2da was a mistake. This is based on the kit description, which says no backstab, which I assumed also means no sneak attack (i.e. like the swashbuckler).

    For some reason I assumed setting a backstab factor also affects the THAC0 modifier for the attack. Maybe I was mistaken. The minor sneak damage bonus just does moderate damage though (ca. 3-4 damage in average), so it shouldn't be as unbalancing as a higher backstab multiplier.
  • Dan_PDan_P Member Posts: 129
    You're right, it's not unbalancing at all. Most people probably wouldn't even attempt a sneak attack, just due to reading the kit description. I only knew about the sneak attack values from seeing the 2da, and I was looking at it for other mods. I patched sharpshooter as well, only because I was already patching other kits. A lot of Thief kits in various mods have messed up sneak attack and crippling strike values, or wrong numbers of columns.
  • IseweinIsewein Member Posts: 560
    Very nice! Lore-wise, I would suggest having or at least being able to choose between Rooting, Power and Explosive Shot abilities. I have a hard time imagining what Explosive Shot consists of in-universe (shrapnel arrows?) and would rather have access to additional Rooting Shots, for example.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,474
    Isewein wrote: »
    Very nice! Lore-wise, I would suggest having or at least being able to choose between Rooting, Power and Explosive Shot abilities. I have a hard time imagining what Explosive Shot consists of in-universe (shrapnel arrows?) and would rather have access to additional Rooting Shots, for example.

    I agree, combining all three shot abilities into a "select spell"-like ability would be more flexible. I'll see what I can do.
  • LibiousLibious Member Posts: 1
    Hi! First of all, thank you very much for putting so much effort into this mod over the years!

    I have a small question. I wish to play BG:EE and then import my character to BG2:EE. If I install your mod on both games, will the kit transfer from BG:EE to BG2:EE without any issues?
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,474
    Libious wrote: »
    I have a small question. I wish to play BG:EE and then import my character to BG2:EE. If I install your mod on both games, will the kit transfer from BG:EE to BG2:EE without any issues?

    Theoretically, it should work. However, it very much depends on the mod selection and installation order in both games. Kits are identified by a numeric ID which may be different in BG2EE if you installed different kit mods or in a different order.

    If you know how to use Near Infinity, you could check the file KIT.IDS in both games whether the kit ID is the same. The Archer kit will definitely cause no problems, but the archer-like kits (Marksman, Bow Knight, Sharpshooter) may have different IDs.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,474
    New version: Improved Archer Kit v4.1

    Changelog:
    • Added Tutu/EasyTutu support
    • Changed created ammo from single item with # charges to # items with single charge (Marksman, Sharpshooter)
    • Changed bleeding damage type of Sharpshooter's Endowed Ammunition (acid → poison) to improve IWD animation effect
    • Combined all Shot abilities into a a new "Select spell" ability to offer more flexibility
    • Made innate ability descriptions available for BG2 with TobEx
    • Updated Archer description (Charm Animal ability not available)
    • Fixed conjured/crafted ammo being blocked by the "Protection from Normal Missiles" spell
    • Fixed base damage of enchanted bolts
    • Fixed usability flags of Bolts +4
    • Updated French translation (thanks JohnBob)
    • Updated Italian translation
    • Updated Polish translation
    • Internal optimizations
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,474
    New version: Improved Archer Kit v4.2

    Changelog:
    • Added Spanish translation (thanks ElGamerViejuno)
    • Archer-specific bonuses of "Archer's Eyes" item also apply to Marksman, Bow Knight and Sharpshooter kits
    • Fixed crashes in original BG2 because of kit description lengths in French, Italian, Polish and Russian translations
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,474
    New version: Improved Archer Kit v4.3

    Changelog:
    • Added Simplified Chinese translation (thanks Lewis Liu)
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