Dealing with magic users...
QueenQuinzel
Member Posts: 44
So, in my 60 hours accumulated so far on this game (spread across two incomplete playthroughs), I've found that I'm dreadfully afraid of enemy magic users. When I hear the chanting and see the pulsing energy building up in the caster's hands, sheer trepidation fills my heart.
So, my questions to you all are as follows:
1) What are some good general tactics for dealing with magic users?
2) I know one rule of thumb is to interrupt their incantation, but the only method I know of which can do this is the Wand of Magic Missiles. So what are some other methods?
Forgive me. I'm quite honestly terrible at this game, not to mention I have the knowledge of a beginning-to-mid-level player (which may or may not be saying a lot since there's a lot to learn in this game).
Thanks, guys.
So, my questions to you all are as follows:
1) What are some good general tactics for dealing with magic users?
2) I know one rule of thumb is to interrupt their incantation, but the only method I know of which can do this is the Wand of Magic Missiles. So what are some other methods?
Forgive me. I'm quite honestly terrible at this game, not to mention I have the knowledge of a beginning-to-mid-level player (which may or may not be saying a lot since there's a lot to learn in this game).
Thanks, guys.
1
Comments
Poison attacks are great due to their damage over time. Stacking Melf's Acid Arrows can be very effective in interrupting casters for multiple rounds.
The enemy arcane casters in BG usually only cast a few different spells. Having resist fear memorized at all times really helps a lot due to their proclivity to cast Horror. Shield spell nullifies their MMs.
Divine casters are often the most annoying in BG. The good news with divine casters is that they usually have much longer cast times, making them much easier to interrupt. You just need to learn to time your MM. The long divine casting times demands that you take an extra moment to wait until their cast begins.
Having at least two archers and a mage casting MM makes it very difficult for a caster to get off any spells. Bows have 2 APR so an archer with a good THAC0 + the generally poor AC of mages makes them very effective at interruption. This pairing of MM and archers also makes quick work of their mirror images.
Have your cleric(s) cast Silence upon seeing a caster. Silence is a very effective spell for a great deal of the saga.
Web, horror and other debilitating spells work very well also.
Use a stealth character to backstab. The Dagger of Venom is a great backstab weapon against casters.
Potion of absorption works great against Silke and her damn lightning bolt.
Oh and how could I forget my favorite: Blindness. It doesn't have a save penalty, so it may require multiple casts, but turning a dangerous mage into a piñata is good times
Anyway, for regular mages, use summons, distraction, potions, tactical kits, becoming untargetable, and insect plague.
Summons are useful as even a lowly kobold summoned by monster summoning 1 will eat up a spell from an enemy mage. That's one lightning bolt or chaos not targeted at you.
Distraction is cheesy but useful:when a mage is casting something leave the area, use a door to enter/exit a building and they will waste the spell. Or...
Go invisible with a potion. (Or ring) potions are the bane of enemy spell casters, you can get total immunity to their tricks via potions. Fire resistance and lightning resistance (potion of absorption gives lightning immunity) are great against occasional fireball/lightning bolt. With ring of fire resistance and boots of grounding you should not be afraid of those elements. Potion of magic shielding/protection/immunity make any mage fight a walk in the park. Note that the enemy mage can dispel your potion buffs, but regular mages don't use dispel magic that often, IIRC, and you can bait them to use their dispel on something else when they do.
Always have a clear aura and a tactical kit that has different sets of potions and items when you face a mage. See a lightning bolt coming, quickly gulp a potion of absorbtion/insulation and equip your boots of grounding. See a chaos, gulp a potion of clarity (total immunity vs enchantment stuff) or a potion of invulnerability (save bonuses help to save vs the spell) or potion of magic shielding/protection. Use dispelling arrow ONCE if they have too heavy buffs and then go with arrows/bolts of biting or darts of wounding: the poison damage will shut them off. Go invisible when things get too hairy. Heal up with potions if they spam magic missiles, or use shield amulet. (Haven't checked if the shield amulet protects against magic missile, on theory it should.) spam them with monster summoning wand and let them waste their spells on lowly critters. Take a pot shot with wand of paralysation when you can, it can end the battle instantly. Use Dorn's or an assasin/blackguard pc's poison weapon ability, mages are weak in save vs death category, they will succumb to the poison fast.
To Become untargetable, you should have improved invisibility active, enemies won't be able to target you with spells. And for the truly deadly mage battle use up a scroll of protection from magic:no spell can touch you.
Insect plague: if you have a character that can cast this spell (Faldorn or pc druid maybe?) all mage battles are super easy. This spell wrecks mages. You don't need to target the mage, if he is improved invisible, casting this spell on a target near the mage (you can cast it on a friendly target, even!) will cause the bugs to spread to the mage and that will be the end of his spell casting days.
Have your thief scout ahead of the group. Once you see an enemy party, you should be able to identify the Wizard of the group by the robes. Have your thief sneak behind the wizard and lurk there until you are ready to attack. Then have the thief open combat by Back-stabing the wizard. If that doesn't take him out outright, it will at least give him something to think about. Poison also helps. If your thief happens to be an assassin, or has the poison dagger, all the better.
If you have at least one archer as well, have them focus on the wizard while your fighters close ranks. One of the archers in BG1 can make poison arrows, so there you go. And Melf's Acid arrow also works in this manner.
Also, Command and Magic Stone can be effective, no saving throw, interrupts for a divine caster. Indeed, this may be the only worthwhile use for Magic Stone {grin}.
1) As was mentioned Larloch's Minor Drain makes a much better caster interrupter than MM... ignores Shield and it casts so fast it can interrupt nearly anything, except for...
2) Command! This 1st lvl Cleric spell casts almost instantly, and has no lag between the cast and the effect! No save for enemies with less than 6hd, which is most everyone until you're well into the game. Technically, you can use it vs even higher lvl baddies, but they might save. It casts so fast your cleric can use his sling in the same round, for another shot at an interrupt.
3) Ranged attacks can work well to interrupt, moreso if you get more attacks! Thus, if you aren't outraged at the premise, consider having a warrior specialize in darts, or maybe daggers (melee and throwing daggers share a proficiency). Darts are a better interrupter, with those poison and stun darts being the best magr shut down in the game. They might make 2 saves, but 3? Daggers add the strength bonus to damage, so high strength does favour daggers, but specialization in darts on a 7th lvl warrior gives 4 apr! And you can still carry your shield. Later game, Melf's MM will give you great apr with a good ranged weapon, making a mage good to shut down casters.
4) Ongoing damage is hugely effective. Poison arrows, bolts, darts and of course the Dagger of Venom all will hurt casters badly. Melf's AA works well too.
5) Rush recklessly! Using the Boots of Speed, or a barbarian/monk can charge in and start hitting a caster.
6) Immunity to effects is a big boost. Berserkers, Barbarians, Inquisitors, Cavaliers etc can survive many annoying spells, and either use ranged (Cavs and zerks can use throwing ranged weapons effectively, others can use bows etc) or melee with less worries. Greenstone Amulet is handy, and if you're willing to be a bit reckless, the Cursed Sword of Berserking makes you immune to many effects, but keep your distance from your party!
7) Resistance to effects is good too, either a shorty (dwarf, halfling, gnome) or from a potion of invulnerability. Not as good as immunity, but Yeslick for example won't fail too many saves vs spells!
Silence is a great blunt tool: one casting can put several casters out of action. And it's worth remembering that your enemies can't cast spells if they're caught in a web or entangle spell or unconscious from the sometimes neglected stinking cloud.
PS: And don't worry about playing for 60 hours and still having trouble with things: it took me (and I'm sure many others posting here) several false starts and a long time to finish the game for the first time. It is a difficult, challenging game, which is what makes it so satisfying when you do get there. And, as this thread shows, there are usually several ways round any obstacle. It's when you finish and immediately start thinking "hmm, I wonder what it would be like with an evil party, or maybe a druid PC" that you need to really worry.
So thank you, everyone!
Ease forward again and repeat.
1. Dorn, his poison effect kicks in even when they have Mirror Images up. His drain ability is also a fast casting interupt.
2. Thief. You need to be invisible (spell, potion, scroll, etc). Go into detect mode, disarm any traps (that action does not reveal you-although it should IMO). Stand near mages who have defenses up (they are many). Your detect illusion skill will eventually break their defenses (this action wont reveal you either). Considering the duration of invisability (24hrs) you don't need many skill points devited to DI. 20% chance per round wont take long, and you might even get by with 10% or 5% if you have the patience for that. With their defenses down, break out the dagger of venom, enjoy a nice +4 bonus to hit via backstab, and back him up with a barrage of poison arrows and darts.
Here're some tips from me:
1. The first and foremost action you have to take is to scout ahead with an invisible character. It can be a thief or a ranger who has hid in shadows, or any other character who is invisible due to a spell/potion. As soon as your scout sees a group a of enemies, you get an immediate advantage - you see them and they don't see you. Later in the game you'll find a cloak of non-detection: with this cloak even those enemies who can dispel illusuions won't be able to detect you. This tactics works especially good when you face a group of enemies including spellcasters. You can safely prepare for any encounter if you know where your enemies are.
2. Try to immobilise an enemy spellcaster before he sees you and begin his casting. The Web spell, Emotion: Hopeless, Chaos work wonders when you throw them from the safe distance next to the place an enemy is located. The range of these spells will provide your success.
3. Several AOE spells that inflict damage can also serve you. When you detect a group of enemies including casters, throw several spells simultaneously: your mage can cast a fireball/skull trap, your cleric can cast the Holy Smite, your bard can use a wand of fire. Kill them before they become active! Later you'll be able to use the Cloudkill spell.
4. If an enemy mage has protections and you're already involved into an open fight, act fast. A one algorithm can help in nearly every situation:
A) Cast the Detect Illusion spell (your wizards have it at the second spell level, your clerics and druids - at the third spell level. Your thieves can use the Detect Illusion ability (the same icon for Find Traps). You should take off the Illusion spells first - spells like Mirror Image, Blur, Invisibility are quite nasty when they prevent you hitting an enemy.
C) Cast Spell Thrust if an enemy has used magic protection spells.
5. Any poison (Assassin's and Blackguard's special abilies, Dagger of Venom, Poison Arrows, Darts of Wounding) goes through Stoneskin and Mirror Image. Even if you can't inflict a straight damage with your hits, it's much more important an enemy starts to get a constant poison damage preventing him from casting.
Use the Doom spell and later Greater Malison to lower enemy's saving throws so that your poison succeeds.
6. In order to interrupt the enemy spellcasting, use spells that can be casted quickly. Magic Missiles, Chromatic orb, Larloch's Minor Drain, Command. A good archer can use a bow or a dart.
7. Don't forget about your own buffs. Protection from Horror, Mirror Image, Improved Invisibility, Free action, Shield. Try to up your saving throws. Don't forget about a Charm protection helmet. You can and should use potions - don't simply collect them, use them in any mage fights.
Later you'll get the Greenstone amulet - a single item to make any mage fight trivial.
8. Later in the game always use a wand of paralyzation and darts of stunning - a stunned mage is a dead mage.
Cheers!