Is Ranger a bad class?
christopherp985
Member Posts: 5
The thematic parallels between Ranger and Aragorn make me think it might be a good fit for CHARNAME despite his humble beginnings. What Ranger kits are good? What Ranger kits are bad? What duals and multis are good? If possible, I'd like to avoid the elephant of Ranger/Cleric, but maybe that deserves discussion, too, despite it being a bug.
I don't really like any of the Ranger NPCs in BG besides maybe Kivan, and I think Minsc is the wrong class (I know kits and stuff didn't exist in vanilla BG, but seriously).
So tell me... why is Ranger bad? What is it good at?
I don't really like any of the Ranger NPCs in BG besides maybe Kivan, and I think Minsc is the wrong class (I know kits and stuff didn't exist in vanilla BG, but seriously).
So tell me... why is Ranger bad? What is it good at?
1
Comments
Archers are hilariously good in BG1, very solid in BG2, and decent in ToB. I favour Crossbows, but shortbows are solid too.
If you go about it as "objectively" as possible (another controversial term), then Rangers are good primarily for two reasons:
- Ranger/Cleric combination (dual or multi), giving you a full-spectrum divine caster with enhanced combat abilities and fighter HLAs (in BG2). You said you want to avoid that, and I can totally understand why, but it's definitely a big part of the Ranger's power.
- Archer. This kit can be absolutely devastating in its damage output. Ranged combat is extremely good in BG1, and even in BG2 an Archer can dominate the kill statistics well up to the end of SoA; only then does its efficacy drop off, and in ToB you often face difficulties when enemies start to become resistant or even immune to missiles/piercing damage. It's still playable, of course, and the diminished endgame power may be a trade-off people are more than willing to make.
Aside from pure power-level concerns though, Rangers are also very popular for the RP value, and for their easy-to-use utility. They are essentially a weaker Fighter/Cleric in a single class, sparing you the hassles and complications of dual/multi-classing. For beginners especially that might be quite attractive.
If you're looking for something interesting and unusual, I'd recommend trying out a Stalker. It's sort of a Fighter/Cleric/Thief, and it can be dualed for some interesting effects (into Cleric, possibly also into Mage? Need to check, my mods make it hard to tell what goes under vanilla game rules).
Apart from that, Rangers are just weaker warrior kit, mostly valued for their RP value.
They can only get two pips in weapons and get armour restrictions (kits) similar to Barbarians, but without their Rage and immunities. They can spell minor druidic spells, but up to lower level and fewer than the Paladin. They can slip into stealth like Thieves, but can't disarm traps or pick locks, nor do they have the back-stab ability (except the Stalker). They are a capable warrior, but worse than the Fighter.
(I personally quite like the Stalker, the other kits and vanilla are 'meh')
Stalkers should be allowed to dual to cleric iirc, and that would make a strong solo character. Stealth, warrior abilities, those handy Stalker buffs, and of course backstabbing. Very reasonable.
The Archer Ranger in BG1EE is pretty insane and almost breaks the game. Make an elven Archer with 20 DEX and look at the carnage.
I don't have any opinion about the Beastmaster. I heard it's meh.
The Stalker is very fun and versatile. It's almost like Fighter/Thief with spells but no Thief skills except Stealth.
About dual/multis. The Ranger/Cleric is also broken but quite good.
For something like Aragorn you go with pure Ranger, I guess. But Aragorn was also kinda Paladin-like.
It's been said that in 3E he is a Ranger/Paladin.
Legolas is more like an Archer. (Though technically he is just a Fighter with a bow).
And Drizzt is like a Stalker. Dual-wielding, lightly armored and he used to sneak around generally.
Actually, I think he's more like a Paladin->Ranger dual class rather than multi. That should be VERY hard to do in BG, sadly...
Other than that kit, though, I'm of the opinion that other Rangers are inferior to the Fighter/Thief. Sure, the Stalker gets backstab, but not as quickly or as high a multiplier as the F/T. Plus, 300K XP per level kind of sucks, IMO. Also, the F/T gets to open locks, disarm traps, dispel illusions, and set traps, all things that the Stalker can't do and which more than make up for the spells, IMO.
Might be a mod-specific issue, though. I don't remember the vanilla behavior of creatures, it's been too long since I played that. If you don't have those enemies then by all means, Archer away! Their damage output is most definitely quite high.
And... Nobody uses these? http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Ravager
I know a certain Deathbringer that loved his Ravager +6.
As a vanilla ranger, you can change any armor you need - a heavy armor for melee fighting, a leather armor for scouting. You can be both a long range sniper and a dual-wielding tank, and all this nearly right from the Candlekeep.
If you like backstabbing, a Stalker is over there:
- stealth and backstab. Simple and effective
- wonderful THACO
- weapon proficiences, plenty of them
- single class
- good buffing spells, including Haste
- Power Strike and Critical Strike later on
An Archer is one of the easiest characters to play as in party playthroughs. If Stalker's melee THACO when backstabbing is wonderful, Archer's missile THACO is godlike. You will almost always hit.
Just read people's ideas here: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/32130/most-unrivaled-ranger-v-2 and you will be convinced to try a ranger.
-Lasts 5 turns (5 real life minutes or 1 game hour)
-Only has 1 APR, but its weapons do 3d4 piercing damage and hit as though they were +4 weapons (no to-hit bonus though).
-It has 0 AC (-3 AC with dexterity bonus).
- Its Immune to normal and +1 weapons
- Its immune to panic, poison, and charm.
- Has 25% magic resistance and 25% physical resistances
Cerebus also has the following innate powers:
– Healing Lick (3/day): Heals 8 Hit Points and cures disease, deafness, blindness, and poison
– Improved Invisibility (1/day): As per the spell (at level 12)
– Mirror Image (3/day): As per the spell (at level 12)
– Moon Dog Howl (1/day): Damages and instills fear in enemies who are evil while also dispelling fear and casting Protection from Evil on party members
– Moon Dog Sight (3/day): The moon dog can see through (and therefore dispel) all forms of illusion and invisibility, detecting traps and evil in the vicinity
Want a Fighter with stealth? Make a Fighter/Thief. This will also make a better backstabber than a Stalker. If you don't care about stealth, a pure Fighter can go past specialized in weapons. Want some divine spells? Make a Fighter/Cleric or /Druid.
An Archer isn't really a powergamers choice, since they lose a lot of effectiveness in ToB, but this is a darn good kit.
Never was a fan of Beastmasters.
All that being said, an Elf Ranger has the highest minimum stats. What's this mean? Well, it means you're much more likely to have higher total stats too.
I was just testing out a Black Pits party, and rolled a 98 for an Elf Archer on like the 3rd or 4th try. I've never seen a roll tha high.
A ranger is a good class, but not great. If you don't like multi or dual classed characters, there is certainly nothing wrong with taking one. I personally think the Stalker is the best, unless you want a tank. In that case, go with a vanilla ranger.
Heck, he even uses Lay on Hands!
Iirc, in AD&D 1e, he was a Paladin/Ranger dual.
I'm currently testing various setups, but it's a really tough issue to decide on imo. The hit in ToB performance may just be worth taking for the ridiculous power you gain in SoA...
Also, free dual wielding is great.
Stalkers get nice self buffing options a Fighter/Thief can't get until UAI, even then no Armour of Faith. FT multi vs Stalker is not remotely one sided. FT is a better thief though, no doubt, but not nearly as tough without using (limited quantity!) scrolls. FT dual doesnt compare well at all to Stalkers, other than right when they get their abilities back. TF dual is a BIT better at being a warrior, but is a glass cannon compared to the pure Stalker. Getting GM for T to F is a bit absurd rulewise, but it is allowed in BG, and you will likely dual at x4 or x5 BS, so sure, you'll do more BS damage, but you will be fragile.
It would be nice if turning off the AI stopped them from using their scripts.
This has gotten my NPCs killed on some occasions. It almost put me off using summons, and the only fix I've found is making the offending party member invisible.