Don't understand Neera's concept
DJKajuru
Member Posts: 3,300
First of all, I just wanna say that the work done on the new NPC's is amazing . But I can't understand Neera's concept . Believe me, I tried.
I mean, what is really a wild mage? They kept showing it as if they were some kind of sorcerer.
"Oh, my innate chaotic abilities keep getting me into trouble!"
But hey, no one becomes a mage by accident. You don't become an invoker and then weep about the mess your fireballs cause. You do it because you love it, because it took you years, maybe a decade, to learn your first spell.
Second, in BG2 she seemed to rescue a girl who was , supposedly, a wild mage. So she had no choice but to study magic? Or was she some kind of sorcerer? The whole "wild mage refuge" , no matter how beautiful it looked , made it less interesting, after all, having about twelve wild ones in Amn makes it look like they aren't that rare , after all.
But what really mixes me up is the fact that she never seems to take magic seriously. She looks like a college dropout who suddenly thought of following her dreams.
I know we can always say that "she's an exotic character" or "you must open your mind" - but I prefer when they make it clear that spellcasters are what they are because they dug deep into it.
I know that there are people who like her a lot, but, when creating a character, isn't there a line between BG-Goofy and Disney-Goofy?
I mean, what is really a wild mage? They kept showing it as if they were some kind of sorcerer.
"Oh, my innate chaotic abilities keep getting me into trouble!"
But hey, no one becomes a mage by accident. You don't become an invoker and then weep about the mess your fireballs cause. You do it because you love it, because it took you years, maybe a decade, to learn your first spell.
Second, in BG2 she seemed to rescue a girl who was , supposedly, a wild mage. So she had no choice but to study magic? Or was she some kind of sorcerer? The whole "wild mage refuge" , no matter how beautiful it looked , made it less interesting, after all, having about twelve wild ones in Amn makes it look like they aren't that rare , after all.
But what really mixes me up is the fact that she never seems to take magic seriously. She looks like a college dropout who suddenly thought of following her dreams.
I know we can always say that "she's an exotic character" or "you must open your mind" - but I prefer when they make it clear that spellcasters are what they are because they dug deep into it.
I know that there are people who like her a lot, but, when creating a character, isn't there a line between BG-Goofy and Disney-Goofy?
7
Comments
As to Neera's personality, as you can see with her friends Wild Magic tends to affect your mental health. The constant exposure to random magical energies can effectively drive you insane. Neera isn't insane, of course (not yet anyway), but her personality has definitely been affected. Add to that the fact that aside from magic there is also a ton of social pressure from how the world reacts to a Wild Mage, and you have a recipe for eccentricity even in the best case.
The game plays it more as something your born with though, so I don't know what that's about. You make a good point about the little girl.
Spoilered due to size.
Wild Magic
One of the newest discoveries from the great lands of the Forgotten Realms is wild
magic. Originally considered little more than the unfortunate by-product of an epic
struggle among the gods of that world, the strange effects of the wild lands (as those
areas affected by wild magic are known) have attracted the attention of many a curious or
scholarly wizard.
In general, two types of wizards are drawn to these strange areas. The first are the
researchers: wizards devoted to the study of the theoretical underpinnings of magic. For
them, the wild areas expose long-hidden secrets of the magical universe and give new
insights into how magical energy functions. From their work have evolved the beginnings
of a theory of random magic--one that defies the traditional schools.
The second type of wizard drawn to the wild lands is far less rigorous and methodical.
These spellcasters are attracted by the sheer randomness and uncertainty of the wild
lands. Such mages seek to incorporate wild magic into their spells by combining
traditional magic with the new theories of random magic, throwing in a dose of their own
chaotic natures as an extra measure. These wizards are the true wild mages who have
been seen recently in various lands.
Although initially discovered and researched on Toril, the FORGOTTEN REALMS®
campaign world, the art of wild magic has quickly spread to other places. Wild mages,through teleporting, spelljamming, planar hopping, and even walking, have carried the
precepts of wild magic to lands and worlds far removed from Toril.
Wild Mages
With the discovery of wild magic has come the appearance of wizards devoted to its
study. Like their traditional specialist brethren, wild mages have thrown themselves into
the intense study of a single aspect of magic. This has given them unique benefits and
restrictions on their powers. Wild magic is so different from traditional magic that only
those devoted to its study may cast wild magic; no wizard other than a wild mage may
attempt to use the spells of wild magic.
Wild mages are by no means specialist wizards--at least not in the traditional sense.
Wild mages do not study within the confines of schools. Instead, their research into new
theories of wild magic carries them into all different fields. Wild magic has strengths in
some areas (particularly divination and evocation), but it is not confined to any single
school of magic. The proponents of wild magic proudly trumpet their art's broad base and
flexibility as its great advantages.
Of course, these same advocates are quick to downplay wild magic's drawbacks. First
and foremost, it is wild magic. On rare occasions, any spell can have dangerously
unpredictable results, including backfiring or creating an entirely different effect from
what was desired. More commonly, the magnitude of a spell--range, duration, area of
effect, or even damage--may fluctuate from casting to casting. Spells cast by wild mages
are inherently unpredictable.
Only characters with Intelligence of 16 or greater are qualified to become wild mages.
The theories of wild magic are breaking new ground, and only characters of high
intelligence are able to decipher the arcane convolutions of its meta-mathematical theory.
Although wild magic is chaotic on the surface, study in this field requires diligence and
discipline.
There are no restrictions to the alignment of a wild mage. The race of a wild mage is
limited to those races with competency at magic; thus, only humans, elves, and half-elves
can be wild mages. Gnomes have some magical talent, but lack the broad base of skills
and knowledge necessary to master this new field.
Wild mages must abide by the normal restrictions for all wizards concerning weapons
and armor. They use the same THAC0 and saving throw values of traditional wizards.
They progress in level according to the Wizard Experience Levels and Wizard Spell
Progression tables (Tables 20 and 21 in the Player's Handbook ).
Wild mages have several abilities and restrictions. Like specialists, wild mages are
able to memorize one extra spell per spell level. This spell must be a wild magic spell,
although it can be from any school; wild mages have no opposition schools as do
specialists.
Wild mages receive a bonus of +10% when learning new wild magic spells and a -5%
penalty when learning other spells. Because wild magic is somewhat "fast and loose,"
wild mages can research new spells as if they were one level less difficult, decreasing the
amount of time and money needed to create new spells.
Certain magical items behave differently in the hands of a wild mage. This is due tohis understanding of the random processes that power them. Most notable of these is the
wand of wonder. The wild mage has a 50% chance of controlling the wand, allowing him
to use charges from the wand to cast any spell he already knows (but does not need to
have memorized). The number of charges used by the wand is equal to the number of
levels of the spell desired. If the attempt fails, only one charge is used and a random
effect is generated.
The wild mage can control the following items 50% of the time, thereby allowing him
to select the result or item instead of relying on chance: amulet of the planes, bag of
beans, bag of tricks, deck of illusions, deck of many things, and the well of many worlds.
Table 1: LEVEL VARIATION
Level Variations
The most broad-reaching aspect of the wild mage's powers is his approach to spells.
The wild mage's work with the principles of uncertainty affects all spells that have a level
variable for range, duration, area of effect, or damage. Each time a wild mage uses a spell
with a level variable, he randomly determines the resulting casting level of the spell. The
spell may function at lesser, equal, or greater effect than normal. The degree of variation
depends on the true level of the caster, as shown in
To determine the level at which the spell is cast, the player must roll 1d20 at the
moment the spell is cast. The variation from the caster's actual level is found at the point
where the character's true level and the die roll intersect. (True level refers to the current
experience level of the wild mage.) If the result is a positive number, that many levels are
added to the caster's true level for purposes of casting the spell. If the result is a negative
number, that many levels are subtracted from the caster's true level. If the result is 0, the
spell is cast normally. The variation of a spell's power has no permanent effect on the
mage's experience level or casting ability.
For example, Theos, a 7th-level wild mage, casts a fireball. He wishes it to take effect
70 yards away at the site of a band of advancing orcs. Fireball has level variables for
range (10 yds.+10 yds./level) and damage (1d6/level). A die roll is made on the Level
Variation Table with a result of 19, indicating a level variation of +3. The fireballfunctions as if cast by a 10th-level wizard (7+3) and easily reaches its target, causing
10d6 points of damage. If the level variation had been -3 (die roll of 2), the spell would
have operated as if it were 4th level. In this case, the fireball would have fallen short
since its maximum range would have been 50 yards (10 yds+ 10 yds 1d4).
One additional effect can occur when casting level-variable spells. If the result from
Table 1 is boldfaced, the caster has inadvertently created a wild surge in the spell in
addition to the spell's effects. A wild surge briefly opens a doorway through which raw
magical energy pours. The energy is incompletely controlled by the actions of the
spellcaster. The result, often spectacular, is seldom what the caster intended and is
sometimes a smaller or greater version of the desired spell. At other times, wildly
improbable results occur. Songs may fill the air, people might appear out of nowhere, or
the floor may become a pool of grease. Whatever happens, it is the essence of wildness.
When a wild surge occurs, the DM must roll on Table 2. Unlike many other instances
in the AD&D® game in which the DM is encouraged to choose a suitable result, wild
surges are best resolved by random chance. Actively choosing a result biases the nature
of wild magic. DMs are encouraged to be random and have fun.
Table 2: WILD SURGE RESULTS
D100
Roll Result
01 Wall of force appears in front of caster
02 Caster smells like a skunk for spell duration
03 Caster shoots forth eight non-poisonous snakes from fingertips. Snakes do not
attack.
04 Caster's clothes itch (+2 to initiative)
05 Caster glows as per a light spell
06 Spell effect has 60' radius centered on caster
07 Next phrase spoken by caster becomes true, lasting for 1 turn
08 Caster's hair grows one foot in length
09 Caster pivots 180 degrees
10 Caster's face is blackened by small explosion
11 Caster develops allergy to his magical items. Character cannot control sneezing
until all magical items are removed. Allergy lasts 1d6 turns.
12 Caster's head enlarges for 1d3 turns
13 Caster reduces (reversed enlarge) for 1d3 turns
14 Caster falls madly in love with target until a remove curse is cast
15 Spell cannot be canceled at will by caster
16 Caster polymorphs randomly
17 Colorful bubbles come out of caster's mouth instead of words. Words are released
when bubbles pop. Spells with verbal components cannot be cast for 1 turn.
18 Reversed tongues affects all within 60 feet of caster
19 Wall of fire encircles caster
20 Caster's feet enlarge, reducing movement to half normal and adding +4 to
initiative rolls for 1d3 turns 21 Caster suffers same spell effect as target
22 Caster levitates 20' for 1d4 turns
23 Cause fear with 60' radius centered on caster. All within radius except the caster
must make a saving throw.
24 Caster speaks in a squeaky voice for 1d6 days
25 Caster gains X-ray vision for 1d6 rounds
26 Caster ages 10 years
27 Silence, 15' radius centers on caster
28 10'x10' pit appears immediately in front of caster, 5' deep per level of the caster
29 Reverse gravity beneath caster's feet for 1 round
30 Colored streamers pour from caster's fingertips
31 Spell effect rebounds on caster
32 Caster becomes invisible
33 Color spray from caster's fingertips
34 Stream of butterflies pours from caster's mouth
35 Caster leaves monster-shaped footprints instead of his own until a dispel magic is
cast
36 3-30 gems shoot from caster's fingertips. Each gem is worth 1d6 x 10 gp.
37 Music fills the air
38 Create food and water
39 All normal fires within 60' of caster are extinguished
40 One magical item within 30' of caster (randomly chosen) is permanently drained
41 One normal item within 30' of caster (randomly chosen) becomes permanently
magical
42 All magical weapons within 30' of caster are increased by +2 for 1 turn
43 Smoke trickles from the ears of all creatures within 60' of caster for 1 turn
44 Dancing lights
45 All creatures within 30' of caster begin to hiccup (+1 to casting times, -1 to
THAC0)
46 All normal doors, secret doors, portcullises, etc. (including those locked or barred)
within 60' of caster swing open
47 Caster and target exchange places
48 Spell affects random target within 60' of the caster
49 Spell fails but is not wiped from caster's mind
50 Monster summoning II
51 Sudden change in weather (temperature rise, snow, rain, etc.) lasting 1d6 turns
52 Deafening bang affects everyone within 60'. All those who can hear must save vs.
spell or be stunned for 1d3 rounds.
53 Caster and target exchange voices until a remove curse is cast
54 Gate opens to randomly chosen outer plane; 50% chance for extra-planar creature
to appear.
55 Spell functions but shrieks like a shrieker
56 Spell effectiveness (range, duration, area of effect, damage, etc.) decreases 50%
57 Spell reversed, if reverse is possible
58 Spell takes physical form of free-willed elemental and cannot be controlled by
caster. Elemental remains for duration of spell. Touch of the elemental causesspell effect (THAC0 equal to caster's).
59 All weapons within 60' of caster glow for 1d4 rounds
60 Spell functions; any applicable saving throw is not allowed
61 Spell appears to fail when cast, but occurs 1-4 rounds later
62 All magical items within 60' of caster glow for 2d8 days
63 Caster and target switch personalities for 2d10 rounds
64 Slow spell centered on target
65 Target deluded
66 Lightning bolt shoots toward target
67 Target enlarged
68 Darkness centered on target
69 Plant growth centered on target
70 1,000 lbs. of non-living matter within 10' of target vanishes
71 Fireball centers on target
72 Target turns to stone
73 Spell is cast; material components and memory of spell are retained
74 Everyone within 10' of caster receives the benefits of a heal
75 Target becomes dizzy (-4 AC and THAC0, cannot cast spells) for 2d4 rounds
76 Wall of fire encircles target
77 Target levitates 20' for 1d3 turns
78 Target suffers blindness
79 Target is charmed as per charm monster
80 Target forgets
81 Target's feet enlarge, reducing movement to half normal and adding +4 to all
initiative rolls for 1-3 turns
82 Rust monster appears in front of target
83 Target polymorphs randomly
84 Target falls madly in love with caster until a dispel magic is cast.
85 Target changes sex
86 Small, black raincloud forms over target
87 Stinking cloud centers on target
88 Heavy object (boulder, anvil, safe, etc.) appears over target and falls for 2d20
points of damage
89 Target begins sneezing. No spells can be cast until fit passes (1d6 rounds).
90 Spell effect has 60' radius centered on target (all within radius suffer the effect)
91 Target's clothes itch (+2 to initiative for 1d10 rounds)
92 Target's race randomly changes until canceled by dispel magic
93 Target turns ethereal for 2d4 rounds
94 Target hastened
95 All cloth on target crumbles to dust
96 Target sprouts leaves (no damage caused, can be pruned without harm)
97 Target sprouts new useless appendage (wings, arm, ear, etc.) which remains until
dispel magic is cast
98 Target changes color (canceled by dispel magic)
99 Spell has a minimum duration of 1 turn (i.e., a fireball creates a ball of flame that
remains for 1 turn, a lightning bolt bounces and continues, possibly rebounding,for 1 turn, etc.)
100 Spell effectiveness (range, duration, area of effect, damage, etc.) increases 200%
Unless otherwise noted, all spells created by a wild surge occur at the designated
target point and function normally (appropriate saving throws are allowed). The caster's
true level is used when calculating range, duration, area of effect, etc. of these spells.
The above list, while long, is only a small fraction of the possible results of a wild
surge. The DM is free to create his own tables for wild surges.
Tables like the one above cannot take into account the situation at the instant of
casting. It is not feasible to create tailored effects for every spell used in every possible
way. Therefore, it is quite likely that some wild magic results will make no sense, be
impossible, or have no visible effect. In these cases, the wild surge has no effect. For
example, if a mage were casting a wizard lock on a door and triggered a wild surge with
the result "Target changes sex," no effect would be visible, since doors do not have a sex
(at least as far as we know). Likewise, a rock might be hastened or a snake might have its
feet enlarged. In these cases, nothing happens--at least nothing that affects play. When
determining the result of wild magic, the DM must use his best judgment.
Finally, not even the randomness of wild surges should be allowed to ruin the story of
an adventure. As ultimate storyteller and arbiter of the game, the DM can overrule any
wild surge he deems too destructive to the adventure. If this happens, reroll the dice to get
a new result. In a case such as this, do not treat a wild surge as having no effect.
Clearly, wild mages are a risky proposition. Not every player will want to play a wild
mage; not every party will want a wild mage. The DM should not add benefits to the wild
mage, hoping to the make the class more "attractive" to his players. Players who like wild
mages will play them without bribery. They will find the uncertainty and randomness of
wild mages irresistible; these are the players for whom the wild mage was created.
It wasn'y created for the EEs.
There are bookish wild mages, they approach the wild magic as a new science, they try to understand and hope to control the unknown. Then there are really 'wild' wild mages, they just enjoy the unpredictability and want to have fun by introducing chaos to life whenever they can. My wild mage pc is one in between the two fractions, a little of both.
Magic used to be a highly lawful and strictly structured science, Red wizards are the epitome of the magical hierarchy. But then suddenly, lvl 1 wild mages started to appear and they did incredible feats with their magic:turning people to stone, gating in demons etc. These feats should be open to a dedicated learner in the arts after decades of study, to very high level mages only. This is why red wizards are jealous and hateful against wild mages, and they try to disect and experiment with them to understand how they can do such feats. But, being as rigid and painfully lawful to the point of dogma, it should be very hard for them to do so since wild magic florishes with the chaos.
However, as far as Neera is concerned, I believe the wild mage class is meant to represent a person who develops, or inadvertently taps, arcane powers, but is unable to control them without proper training (i.e. levelling up like a boss). Sort of like the mutants in X-Men who attend Patrick Stewart's school, I guess.
I mean, why else would the Red Wizards want to disect Neera's brain to learn how her magic works? You can't learn en engineer's or an illusionist's skill by killing them and making an autopsy...
... Or can you? #Halloween2014
Actually, according to Neera, she has an aim of reducin the bad side effects of her spells. She doesn't show or have any insensitive and cruel disregard for others, instead, she tries to find a way to help other:
"Even though I first ran away because I was scared, I've begun to think I should find a way to reduce the unfortunate side effects of my otherwise awesome spells.
...It only seems that way because everyone forgets all the times my untamed magic made my spells more powerful."
But she rejects the alternative of simply not using her magic. There are hundreds of thousands of non-wizards all over the Sword Coast, she can simply be one of them instead of continuing to use magic that has, what she calls, "unfortunate side effects" (aka the possibility to burn down a forest and kill people)
If anything that quote shows more carelessness on her part than less. From what she says it seems like she thinks her spells are "awesome' and takes pride in the fact that her "untamed magic made (her) spells more powerful", as if it was a good trade-off with all the damage it can bring.
Also, *canonically*, Neera doesn't cause any serious calamities in the games, because the charname makes it through the series just fine without being turned into stone, or getting her rump fireballed by Neera.
(Makes me wonder if Neera shouldn't be modified in a way to not wreak the worst havoc she possibly could...)
I mean, in canon the charname is called Abdel and Neera doesn't exist... I don't think anyone likes arguments from canon
The issue isn't what does happen, the issue when considering Neeras personal ethics is what she is willing to risk happening to others. She is willing to risk, say, a demon being summoned in a town or village and massacring the population so she can cast cool magic for herself- a risk she takes with every spell. Thats, er, really terrible. I mean, its truly awful- any town would be perfectly justified in exiling or maybe even lynching her, to be frank, as she is willing to risk the deaths of the whole community so she can cast some magic. For a player who can reload, each spell having a bit over 1/1000 chance of summoning a demon isn't such a big deal. However, from the perspective of a commoner in the setting, this is really awful.
Its unfortunate, but the mechanics of wild magic mean that the only ethical choice really are "live like a hermit in a truly isolated area to practice it" or "don't do wild magic, or if its all you can do, give up magic".
As to Neera, I can only go by what I've seen in the first game, since I haven't played through her tale in the 2nd one yet. Here's what I see:
1) As a young mage, she found that her wild magic was extremely dangerous. At that point she was probably a teen or in her early 20s - not a time period when most people make the soundest of decisions.
2) Striking out on her own, she needed to use her magic in order to keep herself alive, since she was hunted by the Red Wizards.
3) In the PC's party, her choices are either to pull her own weight or strike out on her own again. That means focusing on what she knows, wild magic.
4) She actively tries to learn how to control her magic so she won't harm others.
5) She describes the feeling of a wild surge as something pleasurable, so there is a certain degree of selfishness in wanting to continue practicing magic.
Basically, Neera is somebody who loves her magic, but realizes it can hurt others. She doesn't want to stop using it and really can't unless she wants to wind up dead and dissected by Red Wizards. She does try to find out how she can get it under control, so she's balancing her selfishness with altruism.
She might prefer it to be safer, but she isn't going to let the risk of murdering lots of people hold her back one step (I don't see the evidence that she is only using magic because of being in the party or to protect from red wizards- those are ands, not because ofs). So, from the perspective of ordinary people where she is living, she is risking their lives every day because of her desire to be a mage. Fundamentally, that's pretty terrible.
Yes, she was irresponsible with her magic early on. She's also not quite as restrained as she could be. Those are character flaws and they tend to come with the territory of being chaotic neutral.
At the same time, what I see of her in the game is a woman on the run who throws in with the PC for protection. Then, when she has that protection, she finds out that the PC is on the run, too. If she abstained from her magic use, she'd either be dead or booted out of the party for being useless, meaning she'd just be on her own again.
And yeah, there is a self-serving aspect to her character. That's as much of what defines her as the concept of natural balance is for Jaheira or cold-blooded murder is for Montaron. But unless there are some conversations in the sequel that indicate she's got no problem with killing innocents that I'm unaware of, she seems to be as reasonably careful with her magic as she can be given her personal limitations and situation.
Also Neera makes it look like wild magic "just happens" which is far from true. Wild mages studied a way to directly access magical energy, bypassing the Weave, and actually had a higher intelligence requirement than ordinary mages.
Of course, spellcasting without the Weave is dangerous and if the mage loses control, even for a split second, a wild surge happens but, as I said before, powerful wild mages had many ways of controlling surges and even of using them against their enemies.
It's not as though magic just happens. It takes a lot of work. It took Elminster 2000 years and a pointy hat to get to where he is, so I can't imagine Neera's magic being accidental. She actively seeks to become better with it, despite the fact that it can blow things up (or drop cows on people).
That said, I think Neera was meant to be a fun character not a deep character. Nearly all of her dialog is played for laughs. I really doubt the writers intended to delve into the moral and societal implications of wild magic when they came up with the concept. She's the wacky companion, Dorn is the evil brooding presence, Rasaad is the good man struggling with a desire for revenge, and Hexxat is the tragic figure haunted by her mistakes.
Jan , in all his wackyness , ain't goofy. He takes his endless dialogues seriously , and that's what makes him consistent.
If Haer D'Alis were badly written, he's be just a dark bard with gothic tendencies. Not the case, he's so charismatic that you might even enjoy chaos and entropy around him.
Now when Neera starts with her inconsistencies ... I don't buy it.
I enjoyed Neera's goofiness and didn't find her attitude particularly inconsistent with her class. I think the class descriptions in the pen and paper world often clash with the classes as interpreted by writers in novels and computer games. Many of the novels describe a "spark of magic" that wizards have within them, an innate connection to the Weave which leads them to embark on the life of a spellcaster. They don't just pick up Ye Olde Book of Spiffy Magic and start memorizing, they first have to have that initial internal potential. I know the rules don't describe it that way, and therein lies the disconnect.
To my mind Neera is someone who is gifted at magic but not necessarily disciplined about it. I've known people, for example, who have an intuitive understanding of mathematics and rely on that rather than studying hard for tests. They just "figure it out" during the exam because they actually can wing it given their natural abilities. Neera, to me, is that same sort of person. That said, we don't really spend down time with the characters so we don't know that she isn't cracking the books while "off camera." We meet Neera during the frantic battling for your life moments.
As for how Chaotic Neutral companions should be I don't think there IS a particular way they should be. It's seen as the insane alignment for a reason.
Sure, Neera is selfish with her magic. But she also trys to help many other wild mages to escape the clutches of the Red Wizards.
Jan sells weapons (and turnips) on the black market knowing full well that criminals are probably using them for murder and other nefarious deeds. But he also goes out of his way to help the daughter of the woman thqt broke his heart.
And Harry, while seeming to revel in entropy and chaos, takes time to give a depressed avariel new confidence in herself. After he abandoned his fellow planeswalkers.
So to sum up, I feel that inconsistancies are a hallmark of the chaotic neutral alignment.