Rofl - Just tried HoF by accident. Four ogres?

BelgarathMTH

Hey, so I just started a new four member party tonight, because starting new parties is kind of what I do with IWD:EE, and, somehow, I don't know how, I accidentally had my difficulty slider turned to HoF.

So, I took my new baby party into the orc dungeon outside of Easthaven, and promptly got my thief slaughtered by an orc arrow, for 24 hp. I didn't have the 400 gp to raise him, as he was mysteriously at level 4. I thought it was because of my bard's extra xp.

So, I bravely pressed on with my three remaining party members, hoping to get the 400 gold to make my party whole. I got to the "boss battle" of the dungeon, and, lo and behold, I found my three survivors facing not one, not two, not three, but FOUR freaking ogres!!!

I thought, "What the hell? This has got to be a new bug! I've never seen freaking MULTIPLE ogres in this dungeon! Screeech, scream, retreat, RETREAT!!!"

Um, yeah. ROLFMAO. So, I discovered my "problem", and set the difficulty slider back to "core rules". I still have to deal with the four ogres, though. And, it cost me a hated reload when one of the FOUR ogres got a critical hit on my pally, giving me TWO dead party members.

Grrrr. Playing HoF may be the solution for anyone complaining about difficulty being too easy in this game.

Has anyone complained that HoF mode is "too easy"?

elminster

Has anyone complained that HoF mode is "too easy"?

Yes. Personally though I'm not really a fan of HoF. Not because of the difficulty per-se, I just don't like how it handles enemy health bonuses (tiny goblins given like mounds of health).

BelgarathMTH

Well, it's definitely not just increasing enemy health. It's also increasing enemy *numbers*. Which is kind of devastating when the original scenario had one monster of a type above your party's, and in HoF, multiplies the champion monster by four.

Spungi

I think the increase in numbers has something to do with lvls of your party? I fought 3 or 4 aswell, and I'm only playing on insane.... No hof

JuliusBorisov

Pibaro

@BelgarathMTH‌
Funny story

Many people said HoF is too easy.
I don't.
I started a first level HoF game, and I could manage to finish the Vale of Shadows, but it was definitely not too easy
I had to use every cheese tacticts I know, and I don't like doing that.
I had to lure enemies outside every dungeon, and I even had to come back to Easthaven a couple of times in the middle of a fight.

I'll do that again with a veteran party, and I'll try to beat HoF without cheese (well, without the kind of cheese I don't like).

billygreat

Hof become manageable and easier after Dragon's Eye. You get 4 ogres on insane and HOF.

Lord_Tansheron

HoF is not particularly hard, but it does take preparation and getting used to.

You have very meaty enemies with literal hundreds of HP, but that's about all. They aren't smarter, and they don't have extra abilities. Once you figure out how to tank properly and maximize your damage output with buffs etc., HoF gets significantly easier. And, as @billygreat‌ rightly said, once you get to a decent level of equipment and moderately high level it also becomes a lot more manageable.

If you find yourself overwhelmed by HoF at first, don't fret. You can learn a lot by trying to run against a wall for a bit, and you'll see eventually that it wasn't as high as you once thought it was

old_jolly2

HoF is easy because it is more fun for me. Normal difficulties are impossibly hard because I'M BORED.

Luring , running running , luring , summonning , luring , running...

MrGoodkat

Not sure if the 4 ogres have anything to do with HoF actually. I'm playing without HoF but on 'Insane' difficulty and I also got 4 ogres.

BelgarathMTH

Yes, @Spungi said that the insane difficulty setting also multiplies the ogres. Thanks for the info, @Spungi, I didn't know that.

It's core rules for me, then. I didn't like the necessity to constantly retreat and rest, trying to draw monsters out and picking them off one or two at a time before retreating again.

schreier

So Insane vs. HoF is just more HP? I still remember being shocked on the lower levels of Dragons Eye at HoF ... felt like hundreds of damn wights out to get me around every corner. I couldn't do it without lots and lots of summons and all the buffs

lunar

Yeah extra enemies do appear on insane difficulty. Like, there will be additional yuanti mages in the fake goddess of peace and tranquility area in Dragons eye. Presio in Dragons eye has an apprentice mage and a bodyguard and a slew of poison zombies (they were really too many I suspected insane diff. increased their numbers) etc.

It is cool, like a built in mod. You switch to insane and there will be more and different enemies to fight. I read there will be kraken society mages that cast horrid wiltings in Mekrath fight in HoF difficulty. Looking forward to them. :-)

MrGoodkat

BelgarathMTH said:

Yes, @Spungi said that the insane difficulty setting also multiplies the ogres. Thanks for the info, @Spungi, I didn't know that.

It's core rules for me, then. I didn't like the necessity to constantly retreat and rest, trying to draw monsters out and picking them off one or two at a time before retreating again.

With a strong party you can play the game normally even on 'Insane' difficulty. I think the only fight where I really had to kite back was in fact the 4 ogres in the first dungeon because my party wasn't leveled enough back then.

You don't even have to abuse pre-buffing to deal with huge numbers of enemies. What usually works for me is a combination of crowd control spells and clever movement/positioning of my party members.

I'm playing with a party of 4 consisting of a Cleric/Ranger, Fighter/Thief, an Archer and a Sorcerer. Those characters are arguably among the strongest in the game, but I'm certain there are many other parties that can deal well with 'Insane' difficulty.

Spungi

I'm playing a Undead Hunter, Fighter/Cleric (dual at 2) Ranger/Cleric (dual at 2)...yes I love divine casters Barbarian, mage/thief and a skald... Been thinking of starting over, as even on insane it's a bit too easy... I rarely use cc, I just pummel my way through... With buffs my paladin is around - 25 ac I think... Rest is around 15 or so, fighter cleric probably less... And combined with the dmg buff from skald, they pack a serious punch Think I'll try a game with a bit less min/maxing.

kensai

lunar said:

I read there will be kraken society mages that cast horrid wiltings in Mekrath fight in HoF difficulty. Looking forward to them. :-)

nah, this losers gets killed pretty easily, they don't have time to show their spells except for 7 eyes (oh my eviliest adventurers let my show you my horEAYOBFBLAH). Even Malavon was hard not cause of his intellect and fearsome spells, but because of damn golems and cursed stalkers then my potions, HP and spells suddenly comes to an end. In IWD EE mages have greatly increased assortiment of spellsm but they still as stupid as in the original, and one simple dispel gets them killed.
I miss SCS intelligent enemies.

Azzara

schreier said:

So Insane vs. HoF is just more HP? I still remember being shocked on the lower levels of Dragons Eye at HoF ... felt like hundreds of damn wights out to get me around every corner. I couldn't do it without lots and lots of summons and all the buffs

I was shocked at first as well. Those wights require magical weapons. Then the real shock came when I sent a single aerial servant after them and it killed dozens of them.

Fardragon

As a rules purest, I hate the way higher difficulties increase the hp and damage of enemies. I would much rather have increased numbers and more powerful enemy types, but with standard PnP stats.

MrGoodkat

Fardragon said:

As a rules purest, I hate the way higher difficulties increase the hp and damage of enemies. I would much rather have increased numbers and more powerful enemy types, but with standard PnP stats.

100% agreed. Especially the increased damage completely destroys any balance the game may have had before. Certain things just cease to work entirely. Enemies hit so hard that anything that doesn't completely negate an attack doesn't really work anymore.

On 'Insane' 1 F/M or F/M/T with permanent Stoneskin and Mirror Images and a mediocre HP pool can tank better than 4 max HP Barbarians. Pretty stupid imho =(

Darkcloud

Spungi said:

I think the increase in numbers has something to do with lvls of your party? I fought 3 or 4 aswell, and I'm only playing on insane.... No hof

Insane should be the reason. It adds more enemies which further increases the already doubled xp. The end result is that insane is easier than normal after chapter 3 or something taking high damage enemies aside.

OlvynChuru

When comparing giving enemies more health with making them do more damage, I think that more damage is the lesser of two evils. Making them deal more damage can make them harder to beat (unless you just kite them of course), but giving them more health simply makes the game a lot more tedious.

MrGoodkat

@OlvynChuru: I don't know about that.... Imho more HP is the lesser of two evils because double damage just breaks the game. You basically *can't* get hit anymore with certain characters.

old_jolly2

@OlvynChuru‌ @MrGoodkat‌ I will agree with Olvyn here. Because if you finish an enemy off , no matter if he does 1290310923 damage or not , your problem will be solved. Besides you can always strategize your way around for damagers , having ranged backup & summons in front for melees , etc. But you have to put down dat health anyways and anyhows.

kamuizin

Fardragon said:

As a rules purest, I hate the way higher difficulties increase the hp and damage of enemies. I would much rather have increased numbers and more powerful enemy types, but with standard PnP stats.

This is interesting, and probally possible also, but the UI of the enemies should be better as well, with better call to arms and targeting, otherwise higher difficult will only become an better source of experience, killing the function of raising the difficult.

Personally i wouldn't have a problem if the game distribute better items (undroppable) to the monsters to justify the increased numbers (not to double them, but to improve thac0 and AC by 1 or 2 points for example).

Would be nice to have something like this in Baldur's Gate also.

old_jolly2

kamuizin said:

Fardragon said:

As a rules purest, I hate the way higher difficulties increase the hp and damage of enemies. I would much rather have increased numbers and more powerful enemy types, but with standard PnP stats.

This is interesting, and probally possible also, but the UI of the enemies should be better as well, with better call to arms and targeting, otherwise higher difficult will only become an better source of experience, killing the function of raising the difficult.

Personally i wouldn't have a problem if the game distribute better items (undroppable) to the monsters to justify the increased numbers (not to double them, but to improve thac0 and AC by 1 or 2 points for example).

Would be nice to have something like this in Baldur's Gate also.

Heart of Fury was actually a necessity for me. I couldn't have played the game without it , it is so dull. And HoF did , yes , made the game easier and easier exponentially. The AI is problem here , and I agree with the undroppable back-up the monsters need to have , but that is basically just pumping up their stats.

What my idea is to adjust the game difficulty , by harvesting the player party data and putting it in an algorithm to keep the challenges up. Even this may include "favorite spells" the player likes to cast , and to try to force the player out of its(his/her) underpillow strategies.

Right now at this level Baldur's Gate is totally unplayable for me. And a Heart of Fury add-on would at least add some new challenge to the game , for all those who already memorized the game like multiplication table.

Lord_Tansheron

old_jolly2 said:

Right now at this level Baldur's Gate is totally unplayable for me. And a Heart of Fury add-on would at least add some new challenge to the game , for all those who already memorized the game like multiplication table.

Are you using SCS? Without SCS I couldn't play either BG, for sure.