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Watcher's Keep vs. Throne of Bhaal

arkngtarkngt Member Posts: 20
in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
So I've finished Shadows of Amn and now I wonder when I should do Watcher's Keep. I'm mainly considering how to keep the game as fun and challenging as possible. Is it better to do Watcher's Keep after Saradush in Chapter 8 or should I preferably wait until later in the game?

Comments

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,758
    Generally, I do just as @Blackraven‌ has suggested: completing Watcher's Keep levels when I'm ready.

    An interesting RP idea may be to clear each level of WK after the appropriate ToB chapter: level 1 after Illasera, level 2 after Saradush, level 3 after Abazigal's Lair and so on.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,002
    I tackle all of watcher's keep as soon as I am done with yaga-shura
  • arkngtarkngt Member Posts: 20
    Right. Thanks for the advice. I saw a YouTube-video of the fight with Irenicus and the char had Greater Whirlwind, so I guess he/she had done Watcher's Keep to get the exp points. I'll try something similar during my next play through and do it as soon as I can during this.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 6,002
    when I play SoA, I don't even touch watchers keep and I still hit around 3.5 or so million XP, it could just be that they did absolutely every quest in the game of SoA, because there is so much XP in SoA, and even when I hit over 2.95 million xp, I don't use any of the new abilities I earn in SoA (unless of coarse they can't be avoided like extra spell slots and use any item)
  • arkngtarkngt Member Posts: 20
    edited November 2014
    Yes, I missed some quests, but I did the large bulk of them. My charname was Lvl 17 and had c. 2.75 million XP after finishing SoA.

    If there's one single thing I wished for the game, it would be that the world would be more open, even between SoA and ToB.
  • SeldarSeldar Member Posts: 438
    as soon as I can escape from Saradush, I go straight to the Watcher's Keep. Like this I have a lot of epic weapons, XP, and a better Charname with the Machine of Lum the Mad
  • arkngtarkngt Member Posts: 20
    Why is that, smeagolheart? It was a long time ago I played SoA/ToB (10 years?), but I loved ToB - it had some of the most epic fights I've ever experienced in a game.
  • Ancalagon44Ancalagon44 Member Posts: 252
    smeagolheart said:

    arkngt said:

    Why is that, smeagolheart? It was a long time ago I played SoA/ToB (10 years?), but I loved ToB - it had some of the most epic fights I've ever experienced in a game.

    I kinda quit caring about the game when every guard and farmer has a longsword of destruction +5. Magic weapons, which had been somewhat scare, suddenly grow on trees.

    The story is also very linear, predictable and boring. I just don't care for it, if you like it that's cool it's not for me. I much prefer starting out a new guy a candlekeep and carrying him to defeating irenicus. TOB just doesn't do it for me.
    I'm the same. Despite actually being a powergamer, I've never really enjoyed TOB. It just feels like a chore to me. I think it feels so much more linear than SoA. There is a dramatic shift in tone as soon as TOB starts - you are right, suddenly every soldier has +3 weaponry at minimum, if not +5.

    When BG2:EE 1.3 comes out, as well as updates to Wheels of Prophecy and Ascension, I may play through TOB.
  • arkngtarkngt Member Posts: 20
    edited November 2014
    OK. We'll see. When I played SoA and ToB years ago, I thought that ToB actually managed to top SoA, which was quite a feat as loved SoA.

    As for the game getting "overpowered", I feel the same way about Skyrim (and Oblivion/Morrowind) - it just loses its appeal at higher levels, so I tend to start over when reaching c. Lvl 30.
  • lroumenlroumen Member Posts: 2,538
    I love the pen world and struggle of the early levels so bg1 is the game for me.
    Watchers keep I like for the riddles and challenges though. I tend to do them before the elven City which seems optimal for player levels
  • OlvynChuruOlvynChuru Member Posts: 3,079
    Personally I feel like these games are much more fun at higher levels. At high levels, fighters can actually hit people like they're supposed to. Spellcasters have more ways to play the game at higher levels, since they have more of a variety of spells. Monks don't end up just being inferior fighters. Thieves are pretty much the only class that is more interesting at low levels, since a high level thief can be good with every single thief skill at once.
  • arkngtarkngt Member Posts: 20
    So I started Watcher's Keep as soon as I could in the ToB quest line and everything went well (except for the annoying maze which almost drove me insane) until facing the party that spawns when opening the final seal in the 5:th level, i.e. Nalmissra & Co. They are extremely tough. I'll return when my fighters have Critical Strike and some other ace cards up their sleeves. Can't remember ever doing this fight before. It's by far the hardest one so far in the game - I'm even considering using some cheese tactics if I only can come up with some...
  • DarkcloudDarkcloud Member Posts: 302
    I usually do it pretty early in SoA at least the first two levels. The others a bit later after doing most sidequests in chapter 3. Its rather easy if you know what to expect.
  • arkngtarkngt Member Posts: 20
    edited December 2014
    I just redid Nalmissra & Co., now with my char at Lvl 24 - and this time it was actually rather easy. No need for cheesy tactics, I just took them out one by one. So only Demogorgon and Melissan left during this playthrough. It was very fun, although Throne of Bhaal wasn't quite as epic as I remembered it.
  • ifupaulineifupauline Member Posts: 405
    Do it asap, there is plenty of good items it would be too bad not to enjoy them. I believe you can finish watcher's keep after the underdark, at least you can easily reach the last battle before the imprisonned one, we dit it with a friend we had a priest of helm and wild mage "only". Anyway as soon as you have time stop improved alacrity and wish, as a wild mage there is no way to lose.
  • BlucherBlucher Member Posts: 110
    I like to do the 1st level, maybe the 2nd level too, in Chapter 2 SoA. It's good XP and some useful items can be had. The rest I save until ToB, sometime after Saradush. It lets me feel like ToB is a little more open than it actually is. (And I tend to play solo no-reload and the 3rd level is no joke...)
  • JackOfClubsJackOfClubs Member Posts: 8
    I usually do level 1 early in Ch 2 just to get the various infinite ammo items and the carrying cases. This makes it much more convenient to slog around Amn as a low-level character. But I don't like to go much further than level 1 before coming out of the Underdark since some of those weapons can seriously unbalance the game. I usually wait until just before entering Saradush before tackling levels 2-5 (without breaking the seals) and then save the toughest battles until ToB when I can use Cespenar to upgrade the loot from the earlier levels.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    No-reload runs make you very cautious about which fights you tackle when. There's a certain time when I feel my party is equipped to deal with a certain fight, and I will only take on that fight when that time comes. It leads to some really unusual RP choices, though, like putting a quest on hold because the next fight is just a teensy bit too hard.

    I usually do the first several fights of level 1 of Watcher's Keep early in SoA, then come back later to fight some of the Statues, then come back later to fight the other Statues and do the second level, then come back later to do the other levels. Lots of backtracking, but that's what CTRL-J is for.
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