*Spoiler* The Strange Old Hermit (Kuldahar Pass)

HaHaCharade

Curious about the Strange Old Hermit you meet directly after the avalanche. I think the creators of the game intended you to think he's actually Belhifet spying on you (maybe I read this somewhere). Hence him asking where you are heading, his running down of Kuldahar, and how he just kind of vanishes after dialogue if you walk away from him. Also, if you would happen to attack him, he vanishes magically (via some spell like effect). This along with the fact that he is actually the only live person strolling through the goblin-infested valley. Am I right here? Maybe its obvious to others, still I'm not sure-- Is this revealed somewhere in game that I missed or just something to assume?

OlvynChuru

Well, if he was Belhifet, why would he spy on the adventurers when he could just kill them while they were weak? I mean I guess you could ask the same thing about when the adventurers meet him in Kuldahar, but that was weird in the first place.

Then again, there is a good chance that Belhifet has been in that area. Arundel says that he found tracks he had never encountered before. Now what tracks wouldn't an archdruid be familiar with? Probably only tracks from extraplanar creatures.

HaHaCharade

OlvynChuru said:

Well, if he was Belhifet, why would he spy on the adventurers when he could just kill them while they were weak? I mean I guess you could ask the same thing about when the adventurers meet him in Kuldahar, but that was weird in the first place.

Then again, there is a good chance that Belhifet has been in that area. Arundel says that he found tracks he had never encountered before. Now what tracks wouldn't an archdruid be familiar with? Probably only tracks from extraplanar creatures.

Good point. I forgot about Arundel speaking about the creature he's never encountered before. I also wonder if he viewed the adventurers as a threat at that point, or as a tool. Remember, he has them end his "vendetta" so I would think that he might have a use for them and is just tracking them at that point.

Melicamp

Seems likely

smeagolheart

he seems to me to be a npc put there to tell you what's going on in case you are lost as to what happened, like one last bit of tutorial helping guy.

elminster

Its just old ben kenobi.

JuliusBorisov

If he were Belhifet, he wouldn't fall from one swing of an axe by my dwarf.

Nimran

elminster said:

Its just old ben kenobi.

Kuldahar? This isn't the town you're looking for. *waves hand*

HaHaCharade

bengoshi said:

If he were Belhifet, he wouldn't fall from one swing of an axe by my dwarf.

You're able to kill him? I cannot. All attacks miss and then he vanishes in a flash of green light.

Fardragon

Anyone tried a Know Alignment spell on him?

elminster

Fardragon said:

Anyone tried a Know Alignment spell on him?

He is True Neutral.

elminster

That said there are only two characters that have BelBye.itm him (the item that does the disappearing thing). Him and Arundel. So perhaps he is Belhifet.

HaHaCharade

elminster said:

Fardragon said:

Anyone tried a Know Alignment spell on him?

He is True Neutral.

There are ways to mask alignment, especially for a demon - just sayin (gotta keep this theory alive).

Cluas

elminster said:

That said there are only two characters that have BelBye.itm him (the item that does the disappearing thing). Him and Arundel. So perhaps he is Belhifet.

Maybe that's how the rumor started?

Redrake

While Arundel speaks of tracks he never saw before, he says "sets of tracks". Plural. I always thought he means yuan-ti or Salamanders.

DJKajuru

Redrake said:

While Arundel speaks of tracks he never saw before, he says "sets of tracks". Plural. I always thought he means yuan-ti or Salamanders.

But even rangers are able to recognize Yuan-ti tracks with the tracking skill.

Calmar

OlvynChuru said:

Well, if he was Belhifet, why would he spy on the adventurers when he could just kill them while they were weak? I mean I guess you could ask the same thing about when the adventurers meet him in Kuldahar, but that was weird in the first place.

I think character levels are a gameplay mechanic that does not actually exist from an in-game perspective. Your heroes certainly learn some new tricks during their adventures, but from a storytelling viewpoint they ought not become vastly stronger during the few weeks in the game.

HaHaCharade

Calmar said:

OlvynChuru said:

Well, if he was Belhifet, why would he spy on the adventurers when he could just kill them while they were weak? I mean I guess you could ask the same thing about when the adventurers meet him in Kuldahar, but that was weird in the first place.

I think character levels are a gameplay mechanic that does not actually exist from an in-game perspective. Your heroes certainly learn some new tricks during their adventures, but from a storytelling viewpoint they ought not become vastly stronger during the few weeks in the game.

I agree with you. Your party starts the game in Icewind Dale, but many of them likely hail from other places in Faerun (the kids kicking the squirrels even say "You're from far away, aren't ya?" and Hrothgar mentions you're a "New face in town" and proceeds to lecture you on how to survive in this inhospitable area). Are you telling me they arrived in Icewind Dale as "Level 1" and 0 EXP? Just the journey there alone would have them more experienced than they are at game start. So yes, level shouldn't be thought of solely as a reflection of in-game experience, agreed.

atcDave

Well I'd say just attaining 1st level represents some serious training/experience. In AD&D "normal" soldiers and watchmen are 0-level. Such active and hardy types, like guardsmen get 1d8 or 1d6+1 hit points while softer types may get 1d6 or 1d4. CRPGs often take liberties with this and make the town watch, Flaming Fists or whatever far tougher than they ought to be per official rules. In a PnP game, you will generally assume once your party hits 3rd level or so, the local authorities would have to make a MAJOR effort to control you if you wanted to cause trouble.

So even a 1st level character with 0 experience has passed through a rigorous and demanding training program.
I figure in Icewind Dale, and other RPGs that start you at first level, your characters are well trained but green. They know how to use their gear, they are well trained in combat techniques, stealth, or fundamentals of magic. But they're lacking any real world, or practical experience. So the start of the adventure is the start of their professional careers.

Characters arrived in Easthaven, or Phlan, or wherever looking to prove themselves fresh out of training.

HaHaCharade

atcDave said:

Well I'd say just attaining 1st level represents some serious training/experience. In AD&D "normal" soldiers and watchmen are 0-level. Such active and hardy types, like guardsmen get 1d8 or 1d6+1 hit points while softer types may get 1d6 or 1d4. CRPGs often take liberties with this and make the town watch, Flaming Fists or whatever far tougher than they ought to be per official rules. In a PnP game, you will generally assume once your party hits 3rd level or so, the local authorities would have to make a MAJOR effort to control you if you wanted to cause trouble.

So even a 1st level character with 0 experience has passed through a rigorous and demanding training program.
I figure in Icewind Dale, and other RPGs that start you at first level, your characters are well trained but green. They know how to use their gear, they are well trained in combat techniques, stealth, or fundamentals of magic. But they're lacking any real world, or practical experience. So the start of the adventure is the start of their professional careers.

Characters arrived in Easthaven, or Phlan, or wherever looking to prove themselves fresh out of training.

Good point on 0-level folks. Still, there is something to be said of having a bit more diverse of a background then, "I was born, I trained a bit, now I'm ready to fight." I think its ok to have a character who's been around the block. Backgrounds are something you can grow into really, in most games you play. I'm not talking about adventuring with Elminster, but if you wanted to fight in a battle, or save some kids, or whatever... then maybe you should be level 2 or even higher, but you're just not for mechanical purposes.

The Baldur's Gate NPCs are a good example of this. There's no real reason (except for mechanics) that Edwin, the Red Wizard of Thay who traveled across Faerun, would be level 1... Same for Corwin, Yeslick, and many others in my opinion. And I think that's ok... its an expected disconnect in order to make the characters playable and streamlined for the adventure.

atcDave

Some of the back stories are problematic; but seriously I'd say if they have any real experience, I'd start them at something other than 1st level.
Now on the other hand, a lot of miscellaneous beasties out there truly aren't worth much. If we want to assume the neophyte adventurer has already survived a harrowing encounter with a gibberling, and three bandits who roughed him up and stole his favorite dagger, well that's interesting and worth little or no experience.
And a character who starts with say 400 xp may have had several such minor adventures. But I would still say if the character is assumed to have done anything meaningful they will have more meaningful experience.

In my own PnP game, for the last decade or so, I've been in the habit of starting "new" characters with 3000 xp. That way we can assume a little more adventure in the training and early years and as a DM I don't have to deal with anything quite as fragile as a 1st level character.
But I'd really stick with saying a 0 xp starting character has had good training, but VERY little practical experience.

HaHaCharade

atcDave said:

Some of the back stories are problematic; but seriously I'd say if they have any real experience, I'd start them at something other than 1st level.
Now on the other hand, a lot of miscellaneous beasties out there truly aren't worth much. If we want to assume the neophyte adventurer has already survived a harrowing encounter with a gibberling, and three bandits who roughed him up and stole his favorite dagger, well that's interesting and worth little or no experience.
And a character who starts with say 400 xp may have had several such minor adventures. But I would still say if the character is assumed to have done anything meaningful they will have more meaningful experience.

In my own PnP game, for the last decade or so, I've been in the habit of starting "new" characters with 3000 xp. That way we can assume a little more adventure in the training and early years and as a DM I don't have to deal with anything quite as fragile as a 1st level character.
But I'd really stick with saying a 0 xp starting character has had good training, but VERY little practical experience.

That makes sense. I guess at the end of my Icewind Dale adventure, my characters will match up with their backgrounds nicely. I might even do a re-import.