Revamp Test of Selfishness - BG2 Hell Trial (spoilers on)
kamuizin
Member Posts: 3,704
Hi ppl, i was looking in the game and thought... is the selfishness test really selfishness? Cos it's a bit contradictory to permanent kill an dorn or korgan in the trade of an +2AC (which is crap in ToB) or to save 1 point of dexterity. In the long run for any party, good or evil, it's better to take the good path, sometimes +10 Mres is even preferable than 1 dex.
The fun question is that the good path is an greed path in fact, where we can't fathom the possibility of lose an character that we had an high amount of work to get, it's an tool we sharpened to perfection that the game intent to take from us!
So, i proposte to rework this trial, so we can take the evil option more often. My initial suggestion is to change the evil bonus, cos it sucks, and give an penality to the sacrified character taken instead of perma kill him/her (it for mods).
Maybe +2 Dex to main char and -2dex (or -x max life points) to the sacrified character.
So, what you ppl say?
The fun question is that the good path is an greed path in fact, where we can't fathom the possibility of lose an character that we had an high amount of work to get, it's an tool we sharpened to perfection that the game intent to take from us!
So, i proposte to rework this trial, so we can take the evil option more often. My initial suggestion is to change the evil bonus, cos it sucks, and give an penality to the sacrified character taken instead of perma kill him/her (it for mods).
Maybe +2 Dex to main char and -2dex (or -x max life points) to the sacrified character.
So, what you ppl say?
- Revamp Test of Selfishness - BG2 Hell Trial (spoilers on)41 votes
- yes29.27%
- no70.73%
0
Comments
if you decide to metagame, then magic resistance beats dexterity every time... Especially at the levels you're talking about, where THAC0s are already at obscene levels that render AC obsolete...
Yes it is selfish because your character is sacrificing someone else for their own benefit (and on top of that they have no way of knowing what the reward for sacrificing that person will be).
So yeah, if you want to mod it, I'll download your mod.
1) This whole question is based upon meta-gaming, as @abacus quite rightly points out, so from a role-playing perspective the only reasonable answer to your question is NO.
2) Selfishness is ultimately a question of semantics, and every act can be seen to be selfish, if that's what you want. Like, you're giving all your money, millions of dollars, to the poor? That's selfishness! Why? Because you act upon what you feel to be correct, in other words, you want to do the "right" thing according to what you think is right, and feel good about it. In other words, you're being selfish, you're looking for your own good, the poor are just a tool you're using.
There's already a Revised Hell Trails mod http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/15881/revised-trials-for-bg2-ee-bg2-spoilers which (IMO) improves greatly on the original idea.
Everything is based on metagaming, and even if i don't metagame at first, no matter which gameplay i had i would reload to change my choice. The point of the hell trials are to give an reward at an specific cost, every other trial is this way, selfish trial is not.
I just feel it's a lame test, specially if compared to others.
But anyway, there's a point in the Hell trials alignment change, planescape: torment explains this perfectly. In the planes, unlike the prime, the environment is somehow semiconscious or at very least fluid based on alingments.
So in the planes, the acts you take, based on the place where you are, have the potential of change you to the core. So if i commit an act of greed or corruption in Baator, there's a high chance of the act synchronized with baator natural alignment (Lawful evil) drag the characters alignment to the plane he's in.
Same would happen with an selfish act in grey waste or cruel and bloodlust behavior in the abyss, also the same truth is applied to good alignment places.
So i understand perfectly why an evil act in hell trials could drag my alignment to evil, while good acts don't have any effect in this way. There's no sense in the abyss change someone to good, the person can change by itself by pure force of will or strongly follow a code of conduct (aka Fall-From-Grace, the succubus lawful neutral joinable NPC from Planescape torment), but the place's alignment will always tend to drag people to match it, not push from it.
Of course that even in PnP this isn't just "one act imediate change" so i agree that 1 evil act shouldn't be able to instantly turn the character.
So my complain with hell is based solely with the selfish trial, that sometimes put my game in checkmate, cos or i act as the roleplay intend, sacrifice my best character and thus fuck my ToB game, or i metagame to avoid it but act in disagreement with my alignment. It's a shit.
I would suggest changes to this mod in hell trials (if he even become compatible with BG2 EE), something like each trial done in evil way to give 20% chance of change the alignment (always to evil) and 10% chance to change the axis (always to chaotic), after all the abyss is chaotic evil, not chaotic neutral.
First, each failed (evil) test counts as a reputation hit on par with injuring an innocent (usually -1, except for very high and very low reputations). No one consciously knows of your actions in hell, but the taint of evil stays with you and subtly turns them against you nonetheless (or towards you, in the case of evil characters).
Second, failing any test would cause a paladin to fall. Maybe also rangers, although I'm tempted to hold them to a looser standard.
Third, on the second failed test, good characters become neutral.
Fourth, on the third failed test, neutral characters (and thus also formerly good characters) become evil.
Fifth, if an evil character succeeds on all tests, they become neutral. Blackguards also fall.
This would allow for a little more nuance and personal imperfection, and even an opportunity for redemption for evil characters who really give it their all. Pity I have the modding skills of a dead fish.
So i ask, is the intent of the old devs and the actual devs that i never take the selfish path? Because i'm not about killing a main tool of my party to roleplay selfishness.
Change the permanent death to common death would be a valid change for example.
Obs: if only the bonus of the evil solution of this trial were at least decent...
The thing I would do, sincerely, is sub the +2 ac with a 20 hp bonus.
or 25. Up to you. After all, the greed means that you are too attached to your life to give part of it for others.
But the same can be said for the other tests, to be fair. I would revamp the whole hell if I had the skills. I could think about a thing or two.
Fear:
--Good: Immunity to +1 weapons or less
--Evil: +2 Con and fear immunity cloak
Selfishness:
--Good: +10% MR and -1 Dex, -2 HP, and -XP (I haven't recorded the exact XP loss)
--Evil: +2 AC and lose companion
Greed:
--Good: +2 to all saves
--Evil: +15 hp and Blackrazor
Pride:
--Good: +20% fire, cold, and electricity resistance
--Evil: 200,000 xp
Wrath:
--Good: +1 Wis and Cha
--Evil: +2 Str