Dorn: Lawful Evil... he's driven by revenge, and question is will he be methodical and pragmatic... I'm guessing that he will be focused. I think they will try to avoid a cliche stereotype (i.e., orcish blood and the kit itself) and make him Lawful. Hopefully, he'll have decent intelligence as well.
Agreed. I think they will try to make him less stereotypical. Although if his intelligence is good as well, one has to wonder just how godly his stats will be. He's a paladin type, so he's gonna have beast stats I'm sure. Possibly even better than Ajantis, who currently does have the most points overall.
Well, even with an Int of, say, 10, he could have an average IQ for book-learning but still be very cunning and savvy in the art of martial combat. I just hope he doesn't have lower than average Int. I.e., that he speaks well and isn't just a hulking, brutal lummox.
Rasaad *cannot* be Lawful Neutral. These two quotes: "In the face of lies, we offer truth. In the face of hatred, we offer compassion." and "If he can also find opportunities to reflect his inner light on those in need, he is eager to do so." are clear about that. Lawful Neutral characters don't give a shit about compassion or helping people, they only care about order. He has to be Lawful Good.
The problem here is that Lawful Good and Lawful Neutral are fairly similar alignments. Lawful Neutral characters "only" care about order because they believe it keeps us all from killing each other and is thus best for everyone. They aren't quite to the level of "what's best for the most amount of people possible for the longest duration that is feasible" attitude of Lawful Good characters, but the common good is still somewhat of interest to the typical Lawful Neutral character.
Rasaad *cannot* be Lawful Neutral. These two quotes: "In the face of lies, we offer truth. In the face of hatred, we offer compassion." and "If he can also find opportunities to reflect his inner light on those in need, he is eager to do so." are clear about that. Lawful Neutral characters don't give a shit about compassion or helping people, they only care about order. He has to be Lawful Good.
The problem here is that Lawful Good and Lawful Neutral are fairly similar alignments. Lawful Neutral characters "only" care about order because they believe it keeps us all from killing each other and is thus best for everyone. They aren't quite to the level of "what's best for the most amount of people possible for the longest duration that is feasible" attitude of Lawful Good characters, but the common good is still somewhat of interest to the typical Lawful Neutral character.
That's a really good point. It will be interesting to see how prosocial and genuinely caring about the welfare of others he is, versus simply dedicated to a code of behavior.
After having read Dorn's short story, I'm going to stick with my initial guess: Neutral Evil. Above all else, he seems most concerned with being strong and has a seething disdain for weakness, whether it be in himself, his family, or anyone else. The weakness he saw in his mother finally became too much to bear. He could no longer respect her, nor could he allow her to hold him back any longer, which, in his eyes, justifies leaving her behind.
Dorn seems like a pragmatist. As long as a course of action serves his motivations, he'll join a group or go at it alone, which is the core of the Neutral Evil alignment.
Well, we have now been given vignettes for each new NPC that seem to be defining moments in the character's early life. Formative events, etc. Anyway, you can see a clear life-before and life-after sort of line there. Great story-telling!
Here's refresh on the section on Dorn at baldursgate.com:
"Do not annoy me with such simplistic notions of morality."
Born in the Spine of the World, Dorn fled to Luskan with his human mother when a rival tribe annihilated his father's savage people. In that northern city, Dorn's ruthless strength soon won him a deadly reputation and the attentions of a band of mercenaries whose wickedness exceeded even Dorn's. Imprisoned for the crimes of the entire group, Dorn made a fiendish bargain granting him even greater power and the promise of revenge.
A Blackguard of few words, Dorn is only too happy to ally himself with Gorion's ward and cut a bloody swath across the Sword Coast with his black greatsword, as long as that path continues to lead him to the traitors he has sworn to destroy.
I admit it's still a bit of a mystery to me whether he's of Lawful, Neutral, or Chaotic alignment.
@Martianna That's a neat site, thanks! I can see what you're saying. You may well be right.
Just for reference sake, here are the three Evil alignment descriptions from BG2:
Lawful Evil
These characters believe in using society and its laws to benefit themselves. Structure and organization elevate those who deserve to rule as well as provide a clearly defined hierarchy between master and servant. To this end, Lawful Evil characters support laws and societies that protect their own concerns. If someone is hurt or suffers because of a law that benefits Lawful Evil characters, too bad. Lawful Evil characters obey laws out of fear of punishment. Because they may be forced to honor an unfavorable contract or oath they have made, Lawful Evil characters are usually very careful about giving their word. Once given, they break their word only if their can find a way to do it legally, within the laws of the society. An iron-fisted tyrant and a devious, greedy merchant are examples of Lawful Evil beings.
Neutral Evil
Neutral Evil characters are primarily concerned with themselves and their own advancement. They have no particular objection to working with others or, for that matter, doing it on their own. Their only interest is in getting ahead. If there is a quick and easy way to gain a profit, whether it is legal, questionable, or obviously illegal, they take advantage of it. Although Neutral Evil characters do not have the "every man for himself" attitude of chaotic characters, they have no qualms about betraying their friends and companions for personal gain. They typically base their allegiance on power and money, which makes them quite receptive to bribes. An unscrupulous mercenary, a common thief, and a double-crossing informer who betrays people to the authorities to protect and advance himself are typical examples of Neutral Evil characters.
Chaotic Evil
These characters are the bane of all that is good and organized. Chaotic Evil characters are motivated by the desire for personal gain and pleasure. They see absolutely nothing wrong with taking whatever they want by whatever mean possible. Laws and governments are the tools of weaklings unable to fend for themselves. The strong have the right to take whatever they want, and the weak are there to be exploited. When Chaotic Evil characters band together, they are not motivated by a desire to cooperate, but rather to oppose powerful enemies. Such a group can be held together only by a strong leader capable of bullying his underlings into obedience. Since leadership is based on raw power, a leader is likely to be replaced at the first sign of weakness by anyone who can take his position away from him by any method. Bloodthirsty buccaneers and monsters of low intelligence are fine examples of Chaotic Evil personalities.
@Lermernis I also liked the contrasts he made between NE and the other evil alignments:
Neutral Evil vs. Lawful Evil
Conflicts between lawful evil and neutral evil characters will deal with the question of loyalty. The neutral evil character's loyalty is to himself and those who aid him currently. He will not go out of his way to help another, unless he needs that individual's help in the future. The lawful evil character recognizes the need for comrades and will help those that he considers allies, even at some personal risk and cost. Whoever a lawful evil character calls an ally can expect loyalty and aid, unless he fails to support the aims of the group or organization. Woe to the person who betrays the group! The lawful evil character will not be forgiving and will seek to cause injury or kill the offender, whatever is appropriate for their crime. The neutral evil character will also make an example of those who cross him, there is no question. The difference between the neutral evil character and lawful evil character is that the neutral evil character will betray an ally for gain when the ally has done him no wrong, whereas the lawful evil character will only betray a former ally who has proven himself unworthy or if that ally betrays the group.
Neutral Evil vs. Chaotic Evil
Neutral evil characters are the ultimate pragmatists. They will embrace any cause, no matter how vile, which furthers their goals, usually the attainment of wealth and power. What bothers neutral evil characters concerning chaotic evil characters, is their apparent lack of pragmatism and their utter unpredictability. A neutral evil character will work with others, and call them allies, if it serves his needs. The chaotic evil character, on the other hand, will sometimes prey on those who would be able to help him further his goals. Neutral evil characters see the benefits of organization, but chaotic evil characters trust no one, and see everyone and everything as either obstacles to be overcome, or pawns to be manipulated. A chaotic evil character feels that the only way individuals get ahead is by causing others to fall behind. A neutral evil character realizes that sometimes, people can work together to achieve their goals. The chaotic evil character feels that the neutral evil character unnecessarily restricts or restrains himself in that neutral evil characters claim they are out for themselves, yet they do not reap the benefits of pure freedom.
I think Neera is chaotic good because i think it would take a good person to leave the wizards of Thay and set things right, chaotic because she is unpredictable.
Is it said anywhere that Neera was a red wizard sometime during her life?
Not as far as I am aware @Koson. In fact, I am thinking Neera shows signs of being CN and having a "Woe is me! The world hates me and my problems aren't the results of my own bad choices!" kind of attitude.
I think they need to maintain NPC balance. That being said, a neutral, a good, and an evil would make the most sense... Rasaad being LN seems to work. The Half-Orc and Elf would then fall into their predictable variants of evil and good alignment, respectively.
Yes. I wish I could like Neera more, but so far, she is my least favorite of the new NPC's.
Same here. I was looking forward to Rasaad as I've never played a monk and having one in the group would be a new experience, but the other two I wasn't so thrilled about. Hearing Dorn's VO made me really want to add him to at least one play-through experience, but Neera's story and VO didn't win me over.
@Koson nailed it, Rasaad is currently the favourite for me. Although if he turns out to be Good aligned the chances of me taking him along are slim, even slimmer if he's Lawful Good. I wasn't enthralled by Dorn in the slightest, another evil fighter type, oh goody, add him to the list of Kagain, Korgan, Shar-Teel, Sarevok and Montaron. But after having heard his voice, I'll probably pick him up on my first run. Now as for Neera, I quite liked the idea of a wild mage because I'd never played one before, but after having seen her portrait, I grew a little wary of how she was going to be portrayed. And lo a behold I wasn't far off, I'm just not a fan of whimsical, happy happy NPCs, all of which appear to be secluded to the female sex (Imoen, Alora, Nalia, Aerie).
I do wonder how their stat lines are going to look like. If they're being carried over to BG2, then their stats are going to have to compete with the BG2 NPCs, all of whom all have really solid stats.
I'm pretty sure that Neera will be true neutral or chaotic neutral. I don't think that just the fact that she feels sorry for her wrongdoings and failures qualify her to be "good".
To call out an example: Jaheira is basicly not a bad person; she'd always help those in need, yet she is true neutral, being a harper and druid and all. I don't think that neutral alignments should always have a "I don't care about everything" attitude. They are more about weighting risks and benefits of doing something and trying to act for a greater goal, no matter if good or not.
I think Neera has a typical true neutral or chaotic neutral behaviour. She seems to like fun, doesn't seem to be a bad person in general, but I also think that she sometimes simply doesn't want to stick her head into EVERY trouble she can get. Coming from her background, I think she might be a caring person, but tries to stick out of trouble at any cost, to avoid hurting someone else again.
Rasaad being lawful is a set, as he is a monk. Coming from his backstory, I would assume he is neutral aswell. But as Neera to me is clearly neutral, he has to be lawful good. From his voice and quotes I'm convinced.
Dorn ... I think he will be neutral evil, pretty much. He doesn't seem to care much about the law (again: backstory), but he also doesn't seem like a brainless slaughtering jerk to me.
Comments
Well, even with an Int of, say, 10, he could have an average IQ for book-learning but still be very cunning and savvy in the art of martial combat. I just hope he doesn't have lower than average Int. I.e., that he speaks well and isn't just a hulking, brutal lummox.
Dorn seems like a pragmatist. As long as a course of action serves his motivations, he'll join a group or go at it alone, which is the core of the Neutral Evil alignment.
Here's refresh on the section on Dorn at baldursgate.com: I admit it's still a bit of a mystery to me whether he's of Lawful, Neutral, or Chaotic alignment.
Just for reference sake, here are the three Evil alignment descriptions from BG2:
Lawful Evil
These characters believe in using society and its laws to benefit themselves. Structure and organization elevate those who deserve to rule as well as provide a clearly defined hierarchy between master and servant. To this end, Lawful Evil characters support laws and societies that protect their own concerns. If someone is hurt or suffers because of a law that benefits Lawful Evil characters, too bad. Lawful Evil characters obey laws out of fear of punishment. Because they may be forced to honor an unfavorable contract or oath they have made, Lawful Evil characters are usually very careful about giving their word. Once given, they break their word only if their can find a way to do it legally, within the laws of the society. An iron-fisted tyrant and a devious, greedy merchant are examples of Lawful Evil beings.
Neutral Evil
Neutral Evil characters are primarily concerned with themselves and their own advancement. They have no particular objection to working with others or, for that matter, doing it on their own. Their only interest is in getting ahead. If there is a quick and easy way to gain a profit, whether it is legal, questionable, or obviously illegal, they take advantage of it. Although Neutral Evil characters do not have the "every man for himself" attitude of chaotic characters, they have no qualms about betraying their friends and companions for personal gain. They typically base their allegiance on power and money, which makes them quite receptive to bribes. An unscrupulous mercenary, a common thief, and a double-crossing informer who betrays people to the authorities to protect and advance himself are typical examples of Neutral Evil characters.
Chaotic Evil
These characters are the bane of all that is good and organized. Chaotic Evil characters are motivated by the desire for personal gain and pleasure. They see absolutely nothing wrong with taking whatever they want by whatever mean possible. Laws and governments are the tools of weaklings unable to fend for themselves. The strong have the right to take whatever they want, and the weak are there to be exploited. When Chaotic Evil characters band together, they are not motivated by a desire to cooperate, but rather to oppose powerful enemies. Such a group can be held together only by a strong leader capable of bullying his underlings into obedience. Since leadership is based on raw power, a leader is likely to be replaced at the first sign of weakness by anyone who can take his position away from him by any method. Bloodthirsty buccaneers and monsters of low intelligence are fine examples of Chaotic Evil personalities.
Neutral Evil vs. Lawful Evil
Conflicts between lawful evil and neutral evil characters will deal with the question of loyalty. The neutral evil character's loyalty is to himself and those who aid him currently. He will not go out of his way to help another, unless he needs that individual's help in the future. The lawful evil character recognizes the need for comrades and will help those that he considers allies, even at some personal risk and cost. Whoever a lawful evil character calls an ally can expect loyalty and aid, unless he fails to support the aims of the group or organization. Woe to the person who betrays the group! The lawful evil character will not be forgiving and will seek to cause injury or kill the offender, whatever is appropriate for their crime. The neutral evil character will also make an example of those who cross him, there is no question. The difference between the neutral evil character and lawful evil character is that the neutral evil character will betray an ally for gain when the ally has done him no wrong, whereas the lawful evil character will only betray a former ally who has proven himself unworthy or if that ally betrays the group.
Neutral Evil vs. Chaotic Evil
Neutral evil characters are the ultimate pragmatists. They will embrace any cause, no matter how vile, which furthers their goals, usually the attainment of wealth and power. What bothers neutral evil characters concerning chaotic evil characters, is their apparent lack of pragmatism and their utter unpredictability. A neutral evil character will work with others, and call them allies, if it serves his needs. The chaotic evil character, on the other hand, will sometimes prey on those who would be able to help him further his goals. Neutral evil characters see the benefits of organization, but chaotic evil characters trust no one, and see everyone and everything as either obstacles to be overcome, or pawns to be manipulated. A chaotic evil character feels that the only way individuals get ahead is by causing others to fall behind. A neutral evil character realizes that sometimes, people can work together to achieve their goals. The chaotic evil character feels that the neutral evil character unnecessarily restricts or restrains himself in that neutral evil characters claim they are out for themselves, yet they do not reap the benefits of pure freedom.
I was looking forward to Rasaad as I've never played a monk and having one in the group would be a new experience, but the other two I wasn't so thrilled about. Hearing Dorn's VO made me really want to add him to at least one play-through experience, but Neera's story and VO didn't win me over.
I wasn't enthralled by Dorn in the slightest, another evil fighter type, oh goody, add him to the list of Kagain, Korgan, Shar-Teel, Sarevok and Montaron. But after having heard his voice, I'll probably pick him up on my first run.
Now as for Neera, I quite liked the idea of a wild mage because I'd never played one before, but after having seen her portrait, I grew a little wary of how she was going to be portrayed. And lo a behold I wasn't far off, I'm just not a fan of whimsical, happy happy NPCs, all of which appear to be secluded to the female sex (Imoen, Alora, Nalia, Aerie).
I do wonder how their stat lines are going to look like. If they're being carried over to BG2, then their stats are going to have to compete with the BG2 NPCs, all of whom all have really solid stats.
I don't think that just the fact that she feels sorry for her wrongdoings and failures qualify her to be "good".
To call out an example: Jaheira is basicly not a bad person; she'd always help those in need, yet she is true neutral, being a harper and druid and all. I don't think that neutral alignments should always have a "I don't care about everything" attitude. They are more about weighting risks and benefits of doing something and trying to act for a greater goal, no matter if good or not.
I think Neera has a typical true neutral or chaotic neutral behaviour. She seems to like fun, doesn't seem to be a bad person in general, but I also think that she sometimes simply doesn't want to stick her head into EVERY trouble she can get. Coming from her background, I think she might be a caring person, but tries to stick out of trouble at any cost, to avoid hurting someone else again.
Rasaad being lawful is a set, as he is a monk. Coming from his backstory, I would assume he is neutral aswell. But as Neera to me is clearly neutral, he has to be lawful good. From his voice and quotes I'm convinced.
Dorn ... I think he will be neutral evil, pretty much. He doesn't seem to care much about the law (again: backstory), but he also doesn't seem like a brainless slaughtering jerk to me.