Party Makeup & Bard Efficacy/Mechanics
TeddyLatharge
Member Posts: 1
I am starting a new multiplayer game with a friend, each of us handling (3) characters, he is taking responsibility for meat shield tanking (dwarven defender probably), a wizard, and probably a straight up cleric, and I'm responsible for party leadership, melee DPS, thief skills, and missile fire. I'm a BG1 and 2 vet, and usually do some combo of:
-Beserker most likely, maybe Barb, Half-Orc, 2H or 2W
-Fighter/Thief: Elf, Longbow, Longsword, Party lead (will try to get decent Char)
-Wizard
I will probably disregard a Paly since I'm just tired of the lower melee DPS output at higher levels, and I realize that I'll miss out on the good Paly sword.
My questions are:
1. General thoughts on the best way to achieve my goals/responsibilities?
2. Is it worth it to replace my wizard with a Bard? If so, what type of Bard? How do Bard mechanics work anyways, do I have to actively play songs, or can I just turn them "on" and go about my business of using a crossbow, casting, melee, etc.
-Beserker most likely, maybe Barb, Half-Orc, 2H or 2W
-Fighter/Thief: Elf, Longbow, Longsword, Party lead (will try to get decent Char)
-Wizard
I will probably disregard a Paly since I'm just tired of the lower melee DPS output at higher levels, and I realize that I'll miss out on the good Paly sword.
My questions are:
1. General thoughts on the best way to achieve my goals/responsibilities?
2. Is it worth it to replace my wizard with a Bard? If so, what type of Bard? How do Bard mechanics work anyways, do I have to actively play songs, or can I just turn them "on" and go about my business of using a crossbow, casting, melee, etc.
0
Comments
There're not many mage scrolls in IWD and they are not so easily affordable as in BG1 and BG2. So I would advice to have only one wizard in the party.
Bards rule in IWDEE. Skalds and vanilla bards are the best because of their songs. They help so much. If you want to enhance your battle power, "DPS" as you call it, a Skald suits. You have to actively play songs and can't use anything else if you do (if you attack, use a spell or an item, you stop singing). And yet bards contribute so much to your party. Check http://cdn.icewinddale.com/files/IWDEE_Manual_2_-_Mastering_Melee_&_Magic.pdf for certain song effects.
As for the wizard, you can go for a mage or you can go for a sorcerer. If you want more optimal option, a sorcerer is better because this way you don't have to wait till you find certain scrolls.
But you can have a party without a wizard at all in IWD. One bard will be enough. The thing is divine magic is very powerful in IWDEE, so you should definitely try a cleric and a druid.
A druid in IWDEE is more of a mage character in fact, she has many damaging spells.
So, I would take (if your friend takes a tank, a wizard and a cleric):
- a fighter/thief
- a skald
- a druid (for e.g., a totemic druid).
Wrong section again
Thanks @Aedan!
My 2 cents:
First char:
Regarding zerker or barb, I guess both are good. barb has less armor, so that will make the competition for plate mail cause less friction since your friend can use them on his defender and his cleric while you are stuck with 'medium' armors. For straight up killing power I think zerker is better, but barbs are cool and good enough.
Second char:
Fighter/thieves are great. Are you planning on using the thief for scouting, backstabbing as well as traps and locks? If not, then I would go dual and level thief 'til you have enough points then dual to fighter with a human, instead of multiclassing. It's a matter of playstyle though, IMHO, both are viable I guess.
Third char:
First choice would be Sorc, they are just awesome and can spam spells like there's no tomorrow. They level fast as well and can reach level 4-5 spells fairly easy, from which they become great to play and add alot of power to the team. With their many casts per level they can compliment your friend's cleric nicely while still being cheap, no need for scrolls + if you have no other arcane caster, you can sell all scrolls for a lot of gold (though you said your friend will prolly play wiz).
Second choice would be my own personal favorite, the cleric/mage or cleric/illusionist. I repeat myself from other threads here, but wth, it IS on of my favorite classes
Third choice would may be bard, but I'm not a huge fan of bard overall. Singing is nice, true, but if you have two casters of some sort and one bard, then only three chars will benefit from -AC and +THAC0, for the others it's just redundant buffs. Even with one caster + one bard, it's still just 4 characters active in battle with the bard benefits. So to sum it up, IMHO, another active unit > passive buffer. Bards are funny and cool though, and I enjoy to play them, but more so for their versatility than purely for their songs. I like Blades a lot.
One of my favorite classes is Archers, and you did mention you are responsible for missile fire. Your F/T + an archer is a deadly combo where you can sneak, sneak attack, kite and combine the two units for a hit-and-hide tactics (even tho the archer has no BS bonus, she still hits like a mule). Archers are just so ridiculously OP vs plain mobs you will just laugh at their raw killing power. They excel directly from level 1 and just become better and better. They will probably steal >30-40% of your kills even without direct attention, that's how good they are.
Human Figher/kit lvl 9 -> mage is a classic of course. Personally I don't like dual classing, but you could of course do it to increase your non-spell damage, thus reducing the need to rest as often as if pure mage or similar.
Have fun!
.. Or perhaps this is a bit off topic and should be kept out of this thread?
Skald's song is borderline OP.
Jester's song is hugely effective against all of the large mobs.
Blade's song sucks, so they end up being Fighter/Mages with Rogue Thac0 progression. Not weak, just the weakest of the Bards, which is a very powerful class in IWDEE.
But yeah, now we're firmly off-topic…
A blade in BG can become a true powerhouse with self-buffing and off/def stances, though the songs are crap. Her killing power and ability to tank though makes singing pointless. IWDEE doesn't have UAI which limits her somewhat perhaps, but I would assume a bard blade would still be able to hold her own in IWDEE as well. This point stands to be confirmed though, as mentioned I lack the experience of playing blade in IWDEE.
However, looking at the bards ability to enhance the total killing power of the group, then you have to compare ~2-3 additional attacks per round or the ability to tank from a blade vs the beneficial songs from a bard/skald to the party's other chars. But as said, I'm not sure about its killing power here vs true bard or singing kit.
Side note: I guess invisible jesters could provide equally interesting results in IWDEE as in BG, right?
It's quite intriguing to come into IWDEE with BG background and realize there's actually quite a few differences. Hell, I'm even tempted to play Druid now after reading about that class in here, hehe
Certainly not a bad choice and there are some decent items out there like the action longswords (with which you can hit max APR), a range of +1 strength items and the thinker hat for crit immunity (in totl I think?) but I just don't see anything that a blade does that a fighter/Mage or fighter/Mage/thief or some dual won't do much, much better. I mean, you don't even need the caster level for dispel in IWD.
The Blade brings one thing to the table a F/M or a F/M/T doesn't; it's single class. F/M/T is cheesy and not easily roleplayed outside being bhaal spawn. Even F/M is borderline as well. I like some MC, especially those which can easier be explained within the world's limitations even without being the spawn of a god (my own interpretation though), like a F/T or a F/C; both of which seem more plausible than F/M or F/M/T in my eyes.
I love the C/M for it's versatility and for powergaming, but I would have a hard time to RP actively a char which levels as cleric and mage at the same time. It just feels odd since they feel rather contradictory. IMHO mage should be a full time "job", especially considering their power at higher levels, but a cleric who also learns how to properly wield a weapon seems less so. I don't base this on FR lore though, maybe there are many examples of people who have been F/M, F/M/T and C/M's in FR canon.
Sorry, got derailed there a bit, but as said, the Blade kit can be played as a F/M/T for those of us who don't like certain DC's or MC's (same for all bards and its kits really, as well as stalker, swashie etc).
But I digress and have now most definitely derailed this thread, albeit to a topic I find could use a thread of its own. I apologize.
Edit: smiley added.