no arcane party
mumumomo
Member Posts: 635
Hi,
i want to start a playthrough using no arcane casters.
As usual for me, it will be a no reload game.
Very unusual for me, i will bring some NPC along. However i will limit the party size to a maximum of 3-4 (the thought of a party of 5-6 is just unbearable for me
)
Any advice on which charname/NPC i should take? I am looking for something that works mechanically but also fits the theme of the against arcane casters.
Since there is so little thieves in BG2 (especially if you remove nalia, imoen and jan), i was thinking of having a thief-like charname. Like an assassin 6 / fighter dual, or a pure assassin or a swasbuckler.
NPC wise, keldorn fits the theme nicely with his kit and is a powerhouse. I was thinking to include him.
Any other thought or advice?
Thanks in advance
i want to start a playthrough using no arcane casters.
As usual for me, it will be a no reload game.
Very unusual for me, i will bring some NPC along. However i will limit the party size to a maximum of 3-4 (the thought of a party of 5-6 is just unbearable for me
)Any advice on which charname/NPC i should take? I am looking for something that works mechanically but also fits the theme of the against arcane casters.
Since there is so little thieves in BG2 (especially if you remove nalia, imoen and jan), i was thinking of having a thief-like charname. Like an assassin 6 / fighter dual, or a pure assassin or a swasbuckler.
NPC wise, keldorn fits the theme nicely with his kit and is a powerhouse. I was thinking to include him.
Any other thought or advice?
Thanks in advance
6
Comments
1. Inquisitor (Human)
2. Wizard Slayer (Dwarf)
3. Fighter(7)->Priest of Lathander (Human)
4. Fighter/Cleric (Dwarf)
5. Monk (Human)
6. Fighter(7)->Assassin (Human)
It feels like I'm getting hurt a lot more by enemies than usual, probably because the good gear gets more spread out, and since all my characters have warrior or cleric hit dice they have a lot of hp that needs to be healed when they've taken a beating. This has resulted in me memorizing a few more healing spells than usual. You might not have the same problem if you're going for a smaller team though.
2) Keldorn
3) Anomen
4) Jaheira
For BG2 I would recommend a divine caster, so either Jaheira or Anomen or maybe Cernd. If you don't care about running evil you could get Viconia. After that you'll obviously need somebody with thieving skills. Since you can't grab Jan you may want to get Hexxat since she is the only other one in the game that has thief skills that continue to level up. Or your PC could be a thief multi.
I'm curious to hear about how this playthrough will go. No arcane for BG2 seems like it will be really hard. I'm going to have to give it a try too.
BG2 however could be a different story but with keldorn, i think mages should fall easily enough.
Regarding the charname choice:
- assassin6/fighter dual is an offensive powerhouse, (grand mastery+assassin bonus+ poison weapon) but is quite fragile and has no access to traps (not enough skill points for find/disarm and set snares)
- a halfling pure thief (swash or assa) is much weaker for general combat but much more difficult to kill (better saving throws, UAI for SotM) and can lay up traps.
Even with UAI, i will forbid the use of scrolls though.
I have two choices for NPC in mind:
the (very) good group: keldorn/jaheira/Charname (swash or assassin halfling)
the (mildly) evil group: viconia/korgan/Charname
The good group is probably much stronger mechanically but the evil one could work nonetheless
in both options, what would you chose for thief kit?
- swashbuckler is the best choice for the end-game (being almost on par with a FT) but features a rather bland gameplay.
- Assassin is really good for the early game but really suck (backstab+poison immunity) in TOB.
And in some case, killing fast is the best defense.
Elf: Racial bonus to bows and swords, 19 dexterity
Half-Orc: 19 str for really reliable backstabbing from day 1. Nabbing 20 cons will give regeneration. You start with negligible bonus', so you will benefit from assassin levels for a long time skill-wise.
Halfling: 19 dexterity, save boni, crazy starting thief abilities, big drawback is 17 strength from get go. If you use darts, you can get high apr in BG1, great with poison weapon, and darts are VERY good in BG1. Getting the gauntlets would be a priority for the damage boost, but with that you can do 5-8 per +1 dart, which will drop casters quickly and efficiently. Backstabbing is iffier unless you have DUHM in action, but not many enemies can handle being poisoned repeatedly by both Wounding darts and your ability.
I like the halfling choice, but Elf is pretty enticing for most. Poison and Arrows of Detonation = Winning.vOf course, a halfling can do that too, nobody misses with Arrows of Detonation.
The Half-orc variant is strong if you go through BG, as you will likely start with a 19 Str and a 19 Con, and boost that con to 20 and regeneration, which is always handy.
The Gnome variation gets really neat saves, and an Int boost that can be handy for you Lore, as you won't be identifying many items without a Bard, nor a Mage to cast Identify (or read scrolls).
I think most will agree that Keldorn with Carsomyr is likely to be a key component to beating SoA, and I see no clear favorites for the other slots.
One thing to bear in mind is that you can still sneak a small number of arcane spells by playing/taking a Stalker (Valyger) or playing another of my favorite combos, the Avenger -> Fighter dual, which requires starting with max strength AND using the Str tome.
what are the main selling points?
Can take Yoshimo until your dual is complete. Then add Keldorn and Viconia.
Viconia can be redeemed.
Btw they are my B team, the A team being charname (half-orc berserker) and Dorn who I use in much the same way, allowing me to make two-pronged attacks backed up by Neera and Hexxat throwing things.
- Charname, Cleric/Thief,
- Keldorn,
- Jaheira,
- Rasaad.
Keldorn with his Dispel Magic and True Sight abilities is an onbvious pick. And so is Jaheira imo: she'll end up being a great fighter, and has a number of really good diabling spells (Insect Plague, Creeping Doom, Nature's Beauty). Rasaad would be a nice addition for tanking and melee firepower. He will end up awesome with his Monk abilities including his high MR that makes him a great spell absorber.
I believe you're an SCS man, meaning that Keldorn won't always be able to dispel protections due to SI: Abjuration, nor illusions due to SI: Divination. These Spell Immunities may even be cast at the same time.
In those situations a Thief's Detect Illusions is too useful to pass up imo. It will dispel enemy mages' invisibility even if they cast SI: Divination, so that they become targetable for Jaheira's Insects.
Therefore (and for trap setting) I wouldn't go with Assassin(6)->Fighter.
Originally I was going to say straight Thief (of whichever kit you like) or Cleric/Thief for Charname, but of those options the latter is the strongest. Better Thac0, excellent summons (animate dead, conjure animals, aerial servant), great backstabbing potential thanks to buffs, a lot of anti-undead options, a wider range of HLAs to pick from...
Have fun and post an update once you've made the choice!
So why Avenger? Firstly, it is the trickiest to pull off, which is half the fun, as the kit steals your Str and Con after generating the character. The Con matters less, as when you dual you will NOT gain the fighter Con bonus (BeamDog and I disagree whether the rules apply to all hit dice, or specifically to the fighter d10 hit dice), but you do need 17 Str to dual. Key benefit of the kit is one arcane spell per spell level, up to 6th, not all of which are useful, Improved Inviibilty is probably the pick for the bunch. The extra shape changing forms are also fun, especially sword spider in the first game, although usually end up down-statting my Fighter after all the tomes etc.
Main drawback is that you will be a fighter restricted to Leather and a buckler, more probably dual-wielding than buckling.
Looking at other kits, the Shapeshifter sounds like it should be awesome, a werewolf fighter with HLAs! In practice, the fighter-with-kit is significantly better than the werewolf - the main feature of this kit. The totemic druid is another favorite, especially in BG1 where the extra summons seriously rock. I prefer Avenger mostly for the subversion of it - especially in a 'no arcane' run.
I think i will go for an halfling assassin.
NPC wise, i'd be choosing the mild evil path: viconia and kagain/korgan.
i just killed davaevorn.
nothing really hard : kagain is nearly unkillable and the assassin does great damage with elemental arrows and poison weapon.
[Edited] : Same goes for Korgan in BG2.
With the bracers of dex + full plate + magical shield and ring, his AC is ridiculously low. And he has tons of HP. And great saving throws. Easily the best tank in BG1.
Not really used to do that one (i always skip it in my solo runs) and was a little bit overconfident due to arrow of detonation+poison weapon.
i ll probably do a speed run as a solo assassin and do the korgan/vicky/assa in bg2ee
Even with her (Keldorn, Anomen, Rasaad, Valygar complete the party. Valygar fits in for RP reasons), ToB is quickly becoming hell for my Dwarven Wizard Slayer.
I'm dual wielding upgraded Axe of Unyielding and Crom Faeyr, but honestly, Keldorn is what is keeping me in it. That said, the level Drain is really what's killing my team more than anything in ToB.
EEKeepering a Wizard Slayer/Thief, or dualing one would be best though, because you do lack any real thief, barring noting that Imoen is your sister.
I might revisit it one day, as I do LIKE the concept, and I'd definitely add in jaheria if I could.