Cast dispel into insect swarm can most likely end 90% of mage fights in BG.
In BG1, maybe. I can't remember vanilla, but under SR at least save vs. spell stops insects - and most dangerous mages in LoB have ludicrously low save vs. spell.
Question is if 100% dispel is so gamebreaking that FMT can't compete even with such tools.
Yes.
Well, not gamebreaking exactly, but FMT has no gigantic appeal to me. Part of that is me not using traps out of personal conviction. That being said, I do plan to include an FMT soon, just for QoL and random UAI utility.
In BG1, maybe. I can't remember vanilla, but under SR at least save vs. spell stops insects - and most dangerous mages in LoB have ludicrously low save vs. spell.
In BG2EE it's save vs spell 0 on insects, -2 save on insect swarm and -4 on creeping doom.
Which is a bit counterintuitive because I expect the better ones to have worse penalty to balance the three.
Since when did BG balance higher level spells with lower level spells looking specifically at you arcane spellbook. Those are level 3, 5 and 7 spells so first is available as early as 12,500 XP mark for druid so very early bgee.
Also imo the best one is still insects plaque as it is same 100% cast failure and massive aoe for cost of low level spell allowing me to bomb enemies with deva/elemental princes/natures beauties.
Yes, the flaw of the bg spell book. Let's make low level spells obsolete. Seriously, the globes of invulnerability I never even take down anymore and just act like the opponent mage is either a lich or rakhshasa , ignore or go physical.
I get incresingly angered by my DD. Just got ambushed by bunch of ogres and ogre magis when traveling between zones I was happy to run with entire party and leave DD in middle of the ogres. Once I've noticed that 5 ogres are on DD I popped defensive stance and to my saddening they almost immediately switched off DD for my suqishes... only ogre magis stayed on DD. If this goes like that I'm either replacing him for FMC or archer... will see.
@Myrag Definitely been there, nothing like thinking you have an invincible front-liner only to find your face full of ogre fist when the going gets tough.
But I'm sure it can be managed somehow. Early game is, after all, a little different. A FM will devastate tanking when dispels aren't involved, but once you get to ToB and get pelted with one 3x Remove Magic Spell Trigger after another things look very different.
I didn't play much of 'late game' in a while as I; like most of us; have severe case of restartities. But today I've tested high level sorcerer on wk1 statuses which are two high level mages with dozen of contingencies/spells/timestops and I must say reading all those scs guides paid off, it was a breeze to handle entire room solo.
Ruby ray is amazing spell that I rarely used in the past, it almost eliminates the need for spell strike. I didn't take SCS boost to spell strike so it's not an AOE as I felt it would benefit me more than enemies.
It's hard to battle mages during timestop as most of the spells are projectile based so I much prefer getting IA and just spamming those on their faces and then TS. I've tested the same battle multiple of times.
Gate is very very strong against mages/sorcs in SCS as those demons not only see you through invis with non-detection but also, they spam spells on you. Maybe I'll grab it instead of imprisonment or shape change which I actually never use anyway because mind flyer drain in TS is too cheesy for my taste.
As I in the past was storming through the game I never bothered checking what does planetar must offer and I must say... gheeezus bioware; not only thing is a very strong warrior but it's spell selection is so good, basically with planetar in the party a druid is close to useless, really; it even has insect swarm. Spell which was my main reason to bring druid along. Only thing druid brings to the table now is greater elemental summoning, and maybe if SCS shapeshifting would be installed then maybe and only then 90% resistance elemental transformation (hardiness + 50% passive) would be worth it but still for trade of of subpar dpr.
I apologise to veterans here as all above isn't news, it basically basics. It was basics to me too for many years but I assume I just didn't play late game in so long I focused to much on early game party.
This completely shifts things around... maybe I should drop WS->Druid for archer... does it even matter with sorcerer in the party. It's like playing amazing party until you hit hard battle at which point this god level character comes in and wins it solo with no effort.
I also like wish more than I did in the past, with decent amount of melee/ranged getting improved haste/hardiness/greater deathblow/25 stats on everyone are often much more value than spell restoration.
Maybe I should try other WS duals like thief into 10APR tuigan or mage for another melee 9apr boss with kundane or just go WS->Cleric for decent DPR with slings or just drop WS for other class.
Lastly, sometimes even 5 castings of wish does not get you rest which is sad and is where at this point being a wild mage would probably be better although during TS->IA I cast like 40 spells which means with random 5% surge chance, so 2 spells statistically would both have 60% wild surge chance; so 1 in 40 spells on wild mage should be counted as negative surge on 31lvl one. That is too risky for my powergaming taste although could be worth it if someone doesn't mind restarts because of surge cos you know NRD into 6 more dragon breath or wishes etc...
Net net Today I'm rethinking my setup, I see now much less value in WS->Druid late game, much lower than I have anticipated. Although still cloud be useful with SCS shapeshifting.
being a wild mage would probably be better although during TS->IA I cast like 40 spells which means with random 5% surge chance, so 2 spells statistically would both have 60% wild surge chance; so 1 in 40 spells on wild mage should be counted as negative surge on 31lvl one.
5% chance for a surge is for regular casts only, of course. Using NRD, it will be 100% for a surge, and NRD is, after all, WHY you play Wild Mage. If you're not using NRD you might as well be running any other specialist mage.
As for the rest, obviously summons are ridiculous in LoB. You can probably go through the entire game fairly smoothly just using summons, and watch hasted demons and planetars tear things to pieces. That's why I personally don't use summons in LoB at all, but that's just my own individual preference.
Difficulty does, after all, come primarily from your own personal setup. Just as I choose what mods to use, so I choose what restrictions to impose on myself. I don't use summons, I don't use traps, no Wish resting, no Shapechange/TS shenanigans, no abuse of contingencies or engine exploits like Wand of Lightning or Aganazzar's Bzzzzt. And probably some others that I'm forgetting.
In the end, it's about what YOU want for YOUR game. Nobody is there to police your play, and nothing you do has any impact whatsoever on anyone else but yourself. If you find something fun, do it. But, of course, don't be afraid to try something new. I try not to settle for a status quo unless I've tried alternatives. My preferences keep changing. And that's good.
Anyway, back on topic.
I've had about 30 more minutes of play, and used that to tweak around my DD idea again. I think that managing resistance % may just be the way to go, aiming for just under 75% passively with the option of going 100% in choke points or against bosses. I did another test on Firkraag, and killed him without a problem using 100% physical resistance under DD (plus 100% fire resistance). He never broke off the tank, which means that DD remains viable outside of choke points on certain enemies. Now it's a matter of determining which enemies, exactly, and figuring out good strategies for the times where it's NOT viable. I also went back to my troll pack, and I think that my 43% resistance (10 level 20 full plate 10 shield 3 helm) might be enough to sustain early in the game if I chug a lot of potions. But there's also another factor. Using a FMC and FMT in my test setup, I found that I can simply use those as tanks in spots where dispels are not a factor. Outside of that, I use them as pure damage dealers, but shifting seems trivial. Yes they're using mage robes so their AC is considerably weaker, but slapping a shield on them was enough to make their defensive buffs last long enough (unequip shield whenever you recast buffs, of course). Turns out that getting through x3 Stone Skin and x3 Mirror Image on two characters takes a long time even for a pack of LoB mobs. And having three front-liner "tanks" (FMC, FMT, DD) also meant a lot of collision issues for the enemy, further reducing damage output. The key, really, is switching damage dealers between melee and ranged as needed. My Inquisitor, for example, definitely suffers a bit from the issue of being not all that great defensively (as someone mentioned before) - so during early game I gave her a throwing spear, which has nearly the same damage output as melee thanks to benefiting from STR (only suffers against missile resistance), while during later game using a 2h meant I could position behind the tank and be out of melee range for most enemies, effectively turning into a "ranged melee" damage dealer. Something similar holds for the FMC, who's using hammers - beautifully supported by Dwarven Thrower early game (thrown or melee, at will) and Crom Faeyr late game (can be thrown in its IR version), both of which benefit from STR bonuses. Those STR damage bonuses are, after all, what makes melee appealing - offhand APR, too, to an extent, but since there is no IH doubling under SR and most APR weapons are +1/2 instead of +1 under IR, it's not that huge. The FMT, consequently, would be using melee whenever possible and Sling whenever not - the ones with STR bonuses, of course (Sling of Everard until it's fixed, Sling of Force otherwise). Late game they can also use Scarlet Ninja-to with UAI, which remains at +1 APR even under IR, or otherwise GWW as everyone else.
I only did some very cursory testing, of course, but the setup looked promising. I tried to squeeze as many results out of the group as I could, and I'm sure there's problems in some spots that still need addressing, but for now this will be my setup for the next actual run, I think. Whenever that may be...
Restarted my playthrough and went for WS>Mage instead of WS>Druid, so far it's performing much better simply because having second pure arcane caster is really nice. I do have FM and FMT but they have all slots occupied by melee protections and skald has to sing all the time until bard hat.
WS>Mage has much better strength curve than the druid dual as in BGEE you get MM for nice 5APR spell casting disabler with nice damage and two casters allow sorcerer to throw greater malison and then ws>mage cast slow, so a single round in order to debuff entire enemy group. A great combo.
WS>Mage can also use bow for cool combos like arrows of dispeling with spell casting failure, arrows of detonation with the same (amazing in SOD), etc. And really good DPR with boomerang dagger with dagger grandmastery in BG2.
I like to start fights by casting greater malison (sorc), slow (ws>mage), glitter dust (skald), chaos x2 (FM and FMT) which breaks enemy lines superbly. WS>mage should outperform WS>Druid by the looks of it, it syngerizes nice with WS as he can't equip any defensive items.
One cool thing about warrior to mage dual is that you can get him Vahlior Helmet very early in the game. So you end up with a pure arcane caster with simularcum early in the game which is nice! I might give vahlior to FM once he gets celestial fury... because reasons you know
So far so good, just started ch2, finished murders in bridge district and slaves quest.
Stats so far DD 11% (13 kills) FM 20% (20 kills) FMT 13% (16 kills) Skald 0% WS>Mage 45% (52 kills) Sorcerer 8% (10 kills)
If you're not using IR and SR, shouldn't WS->Druid rule supreme because of Fire Seeds? Since they apply spell failure AoE, you can target any random thing in the vicinity of a tough enemy (your own character or summon, for example) and hit them with the explosion even though you wouldn't otherwise be able to hit them directly - that should make any caster including liches completely trivial as you penetrate all protections, invisibility, etc. like they weren't there.
They do. I ran a Fire Seed-based party through BG2 and ToB, and it was the easiest no-reload run I've ever had. Whenever I had to deal with a mage, I just summoned a Flesh Golem (magic immunity and 10 AC) and had my Wizard Slayer throw Fire Seeds at it. The mages didn't even try to cast spells once their spell failure got high enough; all they could do was use their triggers and sequencers, and it wasn't remotely enough to win. The spell failure outlasted their PFMW pre-buffs and PFMW contingencies. Against non-liches, darts worked just as well, as nonmagical darts could get past PFMW and the darts from the Cloak of Stars could get past Improved Mantle.
I also used an Assassin/Fighter's Poison Weapon on Fire Seeds to similar effect, though this was before the crippling Poison Weapon nerf.
@Lord_Tansheron indeed WS->Druid main strength comes from fire seeds but in my book it just feels too cheesy. Something in the category of Mislead backstabbing, while it's in the game and it works it just feels wrong. It's as you say, it is all about what restrictions we want to put on ourselves.
Luckily I don't have to worry about it, because SR already fixes that particular "cheese"
I'm not sold on WS, though. Gods know I gave it a try, in many different ways. But between not actually hitting enemies and them casting things via triggers and scripts anyway, I just did not find it amazingly useful. Or maybe it's just not being able to GWW if you dual them (and I am not running a pure WS, no sir thank you sir good day to you sir).
But who knows, I may dig it out of mothballs again for another spin or two. Some day.
With the new setup I've reached exactly the same stage of the game as with previous one. Comparison of stats so far.
Setup #1
Setup #2
Class/Kit
Kill percent
Class/Kit
Kill percent
FM
20% (36 kills)
FM
16% (31 kills)
FMT
15% (28 kills)
FMT
23% (41 kills)
DD
16% (29 kills)
Archer
33% (64 kills)
WS>;Mage
40% (73 kills)
WS>Mage
23% (46 kills)
Skald
0% (0 kills)
Skald
0% (0 kills)
Sorcerer
7% (13 kills)
Sorcerer
3% (7 kills)
Noted items
Archer damage scaling early game is just insane, I've rushed through most fights with breeze setup #1 has 60 days versus 22 on setup #2 and that was still resting whenever I wanted or ran out of spells
WS>mage preiously had most kills but above shows superiority of archer DPS although I prioritize archer now for buffs
FMT got this try the burning earth, I must say this is fantastic +4 weapon for most of ch2 where there is significant amount of undead around, most of the time not having even weapon enough to hit them., had to use enchanted weapon few times (thanks beamdog!). Burning earth is so far the best choice to bring from BGEE
Sucks to have archer versus some enemies like jellies or undead kind with 100% missle resistance
DD could outscale archer lategame because of dual widling kundane with answerer but archer ain't bad then either
Some fights were superb easy, for instance room in tavern with bandit party has two mages, both cast remove magic as their first cast. At this point in time you dont have spell immunity so it's rough with FM and FMT frontline but Archer with Simulacrum under IH both killed imp before he managed to cast a spell (WS disabled him) and spook landed on human mage, before it ended he was dead aswell.... 20 APR dual archer is amazing could see why @Lord_Tansheron plays with two
This run I had bit more luck with scrolls so I'm ahead in XP slightly, I didn't even leave athaka and did only cementary, murders, kidnapping, slaeves and harper bird quest and my full 6 man party is already at 850k XP. A lot for this stage of the game.
This run I also didn't use as much summons, barely any really as I realized that most of the time I'm just overbuffing everything while I don't need to. My mirror images usually disappear from duration than hits taken. This resulted in overall more kills for the party.
I'm not longer using on-hit weapons they are just too strong for LOB
Going to finish few more quests in Athaka before going umar hills (I already found diamond so I upgraded bronze horn of valhalla gonna grab some chicken beljuril to get level 9 zerker which is almost like next party member at this stage of the game.
Uhhh something wierd has happened. All stores refreshed their item quantities... I'm now able to purchase second vecna, vehlior etc.
Not going to but it's odd... just feels wrong, hopefully nothing bricked my save.
Went to do Temple District Celestial Fury grp, wasn't hard but I had to kite dispels and some spells on hastened FMT/FM quite often., happily they are quite short range.
Anyway this run was far from poverty. I'm stole every single item from everyone in the city, chests, anyone that had loot.
At this moment I've already purchased in this order 0. reputation to 17 (slaves, murders to 20) 1. Vahlior Helmet, 2. Vecna Robes, 3. Bronze Horn upgrade, 4. gridle of hill giant strength, 5. Bracers of AC3 6. Bracers of AC4.
Still got 13k gold left so I might buy some acid arrows for my archer before going planar sphere. I actually plan on going planar sphere before trademeet and other quests, might have an issue with warden as this guy already knows timestop, will see.
Uhhh something wierd has happened. All stores refreshed their item quantities... I'm now able to purchase second vecna, vehlior etc.
I noticed this as well. It seems to be a bug with containers (the game treats stores as containers) in general, where if you take something out but then don't close the container by clicking "done" or "close" at the bottom but rather just exit the screen back to the map directly, it will not update the container contents and reset them back to what they were when you last opened it - meaning any items you took out are duplicated. If you're careful about closing containers it doesn't seem to happen.
I suspect it's a mod problem but I don't have the time to pinpoint which one. I just make sure it doesn't affect my game by being careful and keeping track of what I actually have.
Generally everything up to now is extremally easy, this questline has only two battles.
1. Killing cowled wizard - this went easy... breach and he is down. Not even a round. Speaking of which my party DPR must be over 300+ at this point with IH on FM/WS and Archer as he died under 5 seconds, no spells were cast.
Side note there, I'm always amazed how complex this game is, the difficulty difference between knowing and not knowing the mage chess is sooo big. In the past (before SCS, me as a kid) the cowled wizard was the first hard battle. He threw disablers, had MGOI and don't remember if he did cast PFMW but he usually was a first cause of restarts for me. While I did this game so many times now it just makes me love it even more when I can carefully plan my disablers.
2. Killing Mae'var - as my WS->Mage got level 6 spells recently she was lucky enough to get True Sight scroll from random athkatlan guard. With this fight went very easy, thieves stood no chance versus full mage skins/mirrors party. Only archer had no buffs but I slapped Spirit Armor on him.
In future, I will give her Ilbratha sword for mirrors as this will greatly help her against ranged attackers/stabbers and those pesky clerics with mirroring. I mean it's easy to take it off but with 10DPR archer she usually kills herself in almost instant
Side note here, pickpocketing athkatla guard must be best way to get high level scrolls early. Not sure if this is SCS doing as I never bothered even to level but it will be a thing I will always do from this point onward. I highly recommend this, I even got few level 7/8 scrolls.
Now feeling reckless I want to go for #2 free Haer Dalis questline
Started with freeing Haer'Dalis. Theatre is the second place in the game I remember that has high level random scroll in the secret compartment (first being second level of irenicus dungeon). I was happily surprised by finding Ruby Ray of Reversal scroll... this will solve my forever argument on level 7 sorcerer spell. This way WS->Mage will do Ruby and Sorcerer will go for Project Image. A cool thing about having second arcane caster.
I also changed my approach. In the past morde swords were always my first pick but they are often ignored by SCS due to their 100% immunities so I often use other summons (if any) rather than them so they can soak few hits. Now my first pick on level 7 is either Project Image or Ruby Ray. This run it's going to be PI so I can slap IH on everyone and get those mage chesses rolling longer. You will see why later in the post but I'm at 1mln XP mark now so still long time until that.
While at Mekrath hideout I went for first hard mage chess battle. At this point it's difficult because 3 mages at once with prebuffing takes few rounds to dispose. I wanted to clear this without any cheese so I prebuffed everyone properly and rushed in with haste. I ran head first with FM but YuanTi mages are not stupid, instead I was slapped with three secret words into remove magic next round. I quickly reloaded as I wasn't aware they are smart enough not to ignore Spell Immunity. Next run the tactic was to drop in vahlior helmet to soak first three remove magics then rush in, at this point improved haste archer started disposing of melee snakes while everyone started popping secret word/breaches left and right. True Sight is key for every mage fight from this point as everyone uses Improved Invisibility. Once true sight landed followed by instant breach from Sorc (yey for vecna) my WS>mage with Archer started raining down on first mage who dropped in seconds. FM and FMT both secret worded and then breached second and third mage. It was easier to rush in fast with proper dispel management that this kite/run/summon stuff I usually do... ps. Do you guys hate corridor fighting with 6man party as much as I do...
As I was going to get that bastard's mirror I went to the tunnels side my first observer hunting, high DPR ended it before it had a chance to deal much damage, two gauths fell seconds later. No tactic required. I also killed rakasha in the middle, happily while he is immune to level 7 spells he only uses improved invis with mirrors so true sights is a key to win again.
At this point I'm resting mostly because I have only one cast of true sight per day rather than from damage or lack of other spells.
Now to #3 planar prison itself
First fight has only one mage and few bruisers. WS>Mage easily disabled mage after sorcerer gave him a taste of breach while FMT/FM having magic missile interrupted cleric. I must say MM is still one of the best interrupters for divine casters in the game, especially since WS miscast doesn't work on them. I focused damage on the bard so once he fell I grabbed loot mid combat and gave it to Skald so she immediately could start doing damage and cast spells without losing her song. 100k XP more for her for magical level 15... not only +4+4 auras but also better skellies... will be nice power spike.
Thralls in planar prison are decently leveled mages who slap Improved Invisibility with PFMW and spell deflection so a true sight into secret word into breach are required. I sometimes use true sight into 2x secret words into spell thrust to save level 5 breaches. This is especially important on next fight. Next fight is multiple melee bruisers, one with Kundane, one mage warden, three YuanTi Mages and the giant wyvern... tough battle.
Often disposing melee is better than going for mages because on Lob fights last so long that eventually mages will shred your protections which means melee bruisers will shred your frontline... It's first time I miss my DD here Nonetheless after few reloads I managed to get this fight down, I had to pull them partially otherwise it was too much for a party at 1mln XP mark sadly as I was finishing up the demon was also pulled his with two greater air elementals. Skald quickly buffed archer with enchanted weapon +3 so that she could damage them although this demon was child play compared to previous fight.
Now the warden, I cast few cloud kills and ran far with entire party pulling mages with me. Warden ignored the chase so it was much easier to handle. I didn't use the orb from master of thralls so he didn't fight his own. I didn't use it so that I can clear the trap rooms later as using the orb closes those. As I could rest after mages and before warden, the big boss here had no chance few spell disablers later he was unable to handle rain of blows and fell seconds later. He didn't even manage to cast time stop this time as WS landed miscast and it failed.
This was tough, now just need to clear traps but work is calling so I will play later in the evening.
Whats next? Maybe a trademeet now, should be easy with this party as I already overleveled a bit of ch2.
Party went on mission to help Trademeet folks. Overleveled a content a bit so it was easy.
Notable challenges during the questline are
#1 5 Druids in the middle of the map, all try to cast insect swarm on you in SCS which is nasty... Magic missile on everyone in the party works wonders here.
#2 5 Myconid spawners at the bridge. I have spawned like 100+ of those little bastards on first try so next time I prebuffed heavily and rushed in and killed 3 before they spawned any adds. One try failed because archer got confused and ripped through my party... she has some crazy thac0 now.
#3 Rakasha, three of those with high level and immunity to level 7 spells is crazy I had to micro the hell of this fight by running in with maximum prebuffed FM and potions of magic resistance in order to outlast their buffs. After this was done rest of party ran in and cleaned up the house.
#4 Cernd challenge is hard on SCS/LOB... lady has memorized 3x creeping doom and starts off with it, if it lands it's all over. Cernd had to use invis potions in order to stop her from casting as other methods were not reliable enough to interrupt her casting. His thac0 was super bad, something in levels of 7/8 so he rarely hit her even in greater warewolf form.
Interesting fact... something is bricked with LOB when custom party member is removed to let cernd join. After she rejoins her levels are maxed out. I had to drop my FMT levels to 1, hp to base of 9, reset proficiency points to base and same with thieving skills so that I can level up her again otherwise I couldn't get her HP to proper values. Something weird with EE keeper, I've set her base HP to that of value when I saved before removing her and her HP was 55 instead of 95, to get 95 I had to type in base HP in ee keeper of like 170, felt weird so I did what I described above. Also yes, I did use buttons to recalculate stats.
Now I want to finish trademeet, interestingly to my surprise and big one in fact I've got Spell Trap scroll from the tomb in trademeet, not sure if this is SCS component or one of those places in the game which roll random high-level scrolls.
Feeling confident I went to kill lich at the gate, sadly he starts the fight with spell trap and has multiple castings of spell turning, it's simply too much even for my party of 5 mages. Without ruby ray it's no point even trying to take down his defenses.
My second approach was that I buffed my party to the teeth defensively and outwaited his buffs in the tomb. He did not enjoy this visit. Happily, between his contingencies and PFMW castings WS->Mage managed to land hits which interrupted few of his critically dangerous castings... say hello to no time stop.
One cool fact is that you can outrange ADHW and other AOE spells if you hug wall wheere you enter so I just sent FM to keep lich busy at where he starts. It's also enough to outrange remove magic.
Next, I will go and take on Umar hills questline.
Stats so far, archers thac0 is already reaching engame levels as before LoB only demogorgon has -12AC.
Interesting fact... something is bricked with LOB when custom party member is removed to let cernd join. After she rejoins her levels are maxed out.
LoB does do weird things to characters not in your party, since it just globally buffs every NPC. Usually this is easily fixed if you reload once after the character (re)joins, the LoB buff will disappear and the intended stats should be restored. HOWEVER it sometimes still bugs out and gives you extra uses of level-based abilities (like kit abilities), you'll have to change those manually.
I've got Spell Trap scroll from the tomb in trademeet, not sure if this is SCS component or one of those places in the game which roll random high-level scrolls.
Skeleton Warrior loot table includes some high-level scrolls, yes, Spell Trap among them. Not SCS-related. They can also drop Spell Trigger scrolls.
LoB does do weird things to characters not in your party, since it just globally buffs every NPC. Usually this is easily fixed if you reload once after the character (re)joins, the LoB buff will disappear and the intended stats should be restored. HOWEVER it sometimes still bugs out and gives you extra uses of level-based abilities (like kit abilities), you'll have to change those manually.
So, this is a LoB stuff, I always thought it's caused by combining LoB+SCS and I fired a bug report to SCS thread Reloading does sometimes fix status, but HP is still bugged most of the time, only a few companions seem ok, like Rasaad.
This is almost certainly LoB related, as it is similar to a general bug when LoB was still in unofficial release (available only via .lua parameters) that caused all newly joined party members to be in their LoB mode with tons of stats; reload fixed it there, too.
My completionist soul is crying, for some reason I think I didn't release Jaheira even though I'm 95% sure I did as I usually do it before minsc and minsc is in Tavern. I tried spawning her via console but she only has options that end up with me leaving her.
Any help? I assume it's because of global variables, I tried console for global variables too.
I'm going to change my approach for my progress description. Now I will explain tactics instead of personal feeling as everything seems easy most of the time with proper setup.
@Lord_Tansheron Thanks man! I was surprised but it worked. Reload after rejoin works, I've noticed quick load doesn't always work but full 'load' via menu worked just fine.
QUESTS
Umar hills/Temple Ruins questline
Misc.
Get gem from the chicken as it allows upgrade of vahlior horn, level 9 berserker is quite decent fighter to use
Clearing map, doing small quests including mimic blood quest. I'm always cheesy here as I give the blood to the cowled wizard and after we kill the golem and claim the reward I also kill him. It's tricky on lob as he immediately runs out and after 1 second he is out. So, you have barely seconds to get his 200+ hp down. Body blocking Skald and everyone on the mage did the trick for extra XP and 4k gold on him, without body block there is no way to kill him in time. In retrospective, I should use backstab more as FMT already has quadruple damage multiplier, two more levels until x5.
Negotiate peace and do other small quests
#1 Shades by the crystal ★☆☆☆☆ This fight is generally easy but party much watch out for stat drain as this many shades can drop even the best tanks. Party should utilize summons if possible to let ranged clear them out. Of course as per usual the tactic here should be using crystal that destroys shades on activation but I didn't want to lose XP
FMT ran in with boots of speed gathered all shades in tight circle and ran back to party. Upon reaching a bit of range started casting Sunray from Daystar. At the same time Sorcerer casted instant Greater Malison so that it hits before FMT finishes casting. Shades have very bad saves even on LOB so this was enough for FMT to insta kill everything. Lots of kill % was added to her stats.
#2 First room in the temple ruins ☆☆☆☆☆ Few shades, wraiths, dogs, skeletons. Nothing fancy just mirror and skin your tanks and you are good to go. Door is good choke point but it isn't necessary here.
#2 Shades at the sun crystal ☆☆☆☆☆ Similar tactic can be used to first occurrence but it isn't required if player doesn't want to rest everywhere. Watch out again for stat drains as it was once that I didn't check this and my protagonist died from strength drain here.
#3 Undead by the lava pool ★★☆☆☆ This can be tricky, two greater mummies deal a lot of disease damage. Need to be careful here, they are also immune to low level enchanted weapons so Enchanted Weapon spell is necessity here. Happily skald/fm and ws->mage can all cast it. Watch out because as soon as you engage those a second bone golem will start moving your direction from the room with the coffin, not sure why though.
I remember this room is level based so if you come here after underdark you will meet a nice lich to welcome you.
#4 Undead by puzzle room ★☆☆☆☆ Same deal as previous pack really. But I rate it lower as it doesn't have as many enemies and there is decent choke point in the corridor here.
#5 Shade Dragon ★★★★☆ Dragon is decently hard if you don't do it right. I would rate it between 3 and 4. Maybe closer to 3 but still need to keep consistent. A note to self, SCS does not nerf archer stat drain kills. I've accidentally killed shade dragon via strength drain from called shot. Archer with simulacra both under improved haste kill shade dragon after around 1/2 rounds (that time was enough to drop dragon to 50/60% health though). I could have restarted the fight but shade dragon was just matter or 2 more rounds to fall so I couldn't bother as it wasn't much of challenge anymore. For dragons ranged damage is king because they can stand out of range of wing buffet. I rated dragon without stat drains or tricks like spell save fails on disablers.
#6 Shade Lord ★★☆☆☆ Shade lord was actually funny as FMT ran in and immediately started casting sunray with sorcerer doing installer greater malison was enough for lord to fail his save and die horribly. Again, could have restarted but shade lord died so many times already that he is no longer challenge for me. I love the fact that after the fight I'm cured for level drain. No real tactics were required here but if one was to do it normally shade lord depending on SCS will buff himself lightly enough that either breach alone or secret word into breach will be enough to render him vulnerable.
Unseeing Eye questline
#1 Sewer imp & shades ☆☆☆☆☆☆ I advise to you to kill this imp before doing to cultist hideout because sometimes when fighting shades on the way down it gets pulled and drops stinking cloud on your face. This can end up being troublesome if your front liners fail save.
#2 Shade Lich ★★☆☆☆☆ Liches are generally not that dangerous for heavy anti-mage party. This isn't an exception. Shade Lich doesn't know spell trap so this means few secret words into breaches and re-debuffing for contingency was enough to kill lich in 2 rounds. Since 5 out of 6 members knows both of those I love planning this in a way that all land at the same time.
Secret word is casting time of 4 and breach casting time of 5. Note that spell casting difference of 1 is so insignificant that if you don't line your party members so that secret word casters are either in front or in the same distance then breaches will land into spell turning being reflected and wasted. I did this couple of times so don't forget all those spells have flight time to consider.
#3 Belholders by the bridge of questions ★★★☆☆ This is tough battle. Shades made it worse as when you pull the observers they get pulled too. Tactic is to change entire party to ranged damage and stand near the bridge and use the small stairs as the choke point. Dropping the golem by the stairs is really good here, it will take time for them to debuff your entire party. In that time improved haste members will drop 1/2 observers and then just hope for the best
They managed to charm archer twice which ended in reload because insane thaco just ends fight as orbs debuff your party members which can't last rain of arrows. Having most party of elves and gnomes is super good here as they have resistances and good saves.
#4 Undead hideout in the lower levels of cultist hideout ★★☆☆☆☆ Quite few undead here but nothing special from tactic perspective. I usually use the right door to enter so that I can clear entire inner cave before triggering trap which spawns more undead. Bone golem with two mummies and archer undead are decently touch so make sure to target archer first as he shots frost arrows.
#5 Belholder lair big pack ★★★☆☆ Similar tactic to point 3, everyone in ranged, few summons to soak in hits. I usually like to use improved invisibility on summons to let them run in and surround the orbs, it also helps with their survivability.
#6 Heretic party in the middle ★★★☆☆ Six clerics with decent levels, lots of buffs, etc. I ran in hasted and magic missile 4 clerics to stop their casting (MM is awesome). They cast greater command and few other strong spells. It's hard to stop them from casting without insect swarm (I miss you mr druid dual). If you have druid this fight suddenly goes to 1 star as insect swarm renders entire pack quite easy. Sadly on LOB remove magic is useless, only inquisitor would have chance to dispel them. I had around 1,3mln XP at this point so paladin would have level 12 meaning dispel would be 24 so it's most likely still very very likely to fail. It's as @Lord_Tansheron
Few good options here. IH archer called shot to reduce their strength. Greater malison into slow and glitter dust works amazing here. Magic missile is best casting disruption.
#7 Unseeing eye ★★☆☆☆ Since this is spawned fight you can prepare nicely meaning it's very easy. If you use rod on unseeing eye then he dies before two more orbs spawn. At this point orbs are no danger. As per usual remember to buff with things that increase saves like blur, bless, etc. as orbs are always dangerous if they land their hits.
You may want to consider upping the difficulty level. I don't think what you're doing is adequate for what you're potentially capable of.
You made me blush also I was thinking about it, but is there a way really. I added difficulty to the game so many times already it just feels at some point I will simply find another way to handle it. I guess I just play for fun and challenge for me is not beating SCS/LOB but beating is as smoothly as possible.
I do know you are big believer of SR/IR and honestly I took a deep dive into it's documentation. I don't really think its aim is to make gamer harder... stay with me for a moment here. What I mean, IR/SR nerfs OPness of spells and items but then it also buffs a lot of weak stuff, from my perspective it just smoothens the curve of the game so it indeed makes some stuff harder but other stuff easier. It is also worth nothing that it does in fact nerf OP spells but it also means my SCS mage enemies are waker because of it.
In the end yes SR/IR are adding challenge but it's relative because this game is knowledge and knowledge over gear and spells. SR/IR will render most of my knowledge useless by making me adjust to new world but once adjusted I assume it would again be around the around same difficulty as per regular SCS/LOB.
For me I will go for reach for those mods when I need freshness rather than challenge. For now I don't know. I feel like currenly most of difficulty comes from the fact that enemies outlevel you so you are not even equiped to fight with them. Not sure if there is a way to increase the challenge other than buffing HP/Thac0/AC/stats of enemies but at some points it will just provide cheese tactics a necessity so no fun.
I'm gonna think... maybe I should follow master @Grond0 style and do ridicolous solo no reload runs on LOB/SCS. Except that I love building characters so much that I hardly can restrict myself to a single character.
While IR/SR do certainly make some things stronger and others weaker, I think it's an overall reduction in power level. Weapons do less damage generally, and things like IH not doubling APR curb the damage output DRASTICALLY.
Reading through your reports, I think it's pretty clear that many fights are over for you before they even begin. "Put IH on Archer and their Vhailor clone, watch everything die in 3 seconds" is a recurring theme (and for good reason) but that just doesn't work in IR/SR. Getting to 10 APR there isn't easy pre GWW, and many ridiculous items are made much more reasonable.
You are free to do what you like, of course. To me, exploration of new strategies is what I enjoy most, and for that I of course need something to actually DEMAND new strategies. I've spent 10 years perfecting the whole "kill first, don't ask questions later" approach, and I'm very glad LoB came along and made me rethink everything I thought I knew. It'll keep me entertained for years to come, I'm sure, though part of that is my horror schedule that just barely lets me play :P
Yeah, LoB's increased HP do get players to think more, before, most things can be easily killed by first action of the party combined forces, before the battle even begins...
Comments
Well, not gamebreaking exactly, but FMT has no gigantic appeal to me. Part of that is me not using traps out of personal conviction. That being said, I do plan to include an FMT soon, just for QoL and random UAI utility. Again, no Spell Immunity at all under SR. Spell doesn't exist. Dispelling Screen does, but stops only one dispel.
Also imo the best one is still insects plaque as it is same 100% cast failure and massive aoe for cost of low level spell allowing me to bomb enemies with deva/elemental princes/natures beauties.
But I'm sure it can be managed somehow. Early game is, after all, a little different. A FM will devastate tanking when dispels aren't involved, but once you get to ToB and get pelted with one 3x Remove Magic Spell Trigger after another things look very different.
Ruby ray is amazing spell that I rarely used in the past, it almost eliminates the need for spell strike. I didn't take SCS boost to spell strike so it's not an AOE as I felt it would benefit me more than enemies.
It's hard to battle mages during timestop as most of the spells are projectile based so I much prefer getting IA and just spamming those on their faces and then TS. I've tested the same battle multiple of times.
Gate is very very strong against mages/sorcs in SCS as those demons not only see you through invis with non-detection but also, they spam spells on you. Maybe I'll grab it instead of imprisonment or shape change which I actually never use anyway because mind flyer drain in TS is too cheesy for my taste.
As I in the past was storming through the game I never bothered checking what does planetar must offer and I must say... gheeezus bioware; not only thing is a very strong warrior but it's spell selection is so good, basically with planetar in the party a druid is close to useless, really; it even has insect swarm. Spell which was my main reason to bring druid along. Only thing druid brings to the table now is greater elemental summoning, and maybe if SCS shapeshifting would be installed then maybe and only then 90% resistance elemental transformation (hardiness + 50% passive) would be worth it but still for trade of of subpar dpr.
I apologise to veterans here as all above isn't news, it basically basics. It was basics to me too for many years but I assume I just didn't play late game in so long I focused to much on early game party.
This completely shifts things around... maybe I should drop WS->Druid for archer... does it even matter with sorcerer in the party. It's like playing amazing party until you hit hard battle at which point this god level character comes in and wins it solo with no effort.
I also like wish more than I did in the past, with decent amount of melee/ranged getting improved haste/hardiness/greater deathblow/25 stats on everyone are often much more value than spell restoration.
Maybe I should try other WS duals like thief into 10APR tuigan or mage for another melee 9apr boss with kundane or just go WS->Cleric for decent DPR with slings or just drop WS for other class.
Lastly, sometimes even 5 castings of wish does not get you rest which is sad and is where at this point being a wild mage would probably be better although during TS->IA I cast like 40 spells which means with random 5% surge chance, so 2 spells statistically would both have 60% wild surge chance; so 1 in 40 spells on wild mage should be counted as negative surge on 31lvl one. That is too risky for my powergaming taste although could be worth it if someone doesn't mind restarts because of surge cos you know NRD into 6 more dragon breath or wishes etc...
Net net Today I'm rethinking my setup, I see now much less value in WS->Druid late game, much lower than I have anticipated. Although still cloud be useful with SCS shapeshifting.
As for the rest, obviously summons are ridiculous in LoB. You can probably go through the entire game fairly smoothly just using summons, and watch hasted demons and planetars tear things to pieces. That's why I personally don't use summons in LoB at all, but that's just my own individual preference.
Difficulty does, after all, come primarily from your own personal setup. Just as I choose what mods to use, so I choose what restrictions to impose on myself. I don't use summons, I don't use traps, no Wish resting, no Shapechange/TS shenanigans, no abuse of contingencies or engine exploits like Wand of Lightning or Aganazzar's Bzzzzt. And probably some others that I'm forgetting.
In the end, it's about what YOU want for YOUR game. Nobody is there to police your play, and nothing you do has any impact whatsoever on anyone else but yourself. If you find something fun, do it. But, of course, don't be afraid to try something new. I try not to settle for a status quo unless I've tried alternatives. My preferences keep changing. And that's good.
Anyway, back on topic.
I've had about 30 more minutes of play, and used that to tweak around my DD idea again. I think that managing resistance % may just be the way to go, aiming for just under 75% passively with the option of going 100% in choke points or against bosses. I did another test on Firkraag, and killed him without a problem using 100% physical resistance under DD (plus 100% fire resistance). He never broke off the tank, which means that DD remains viable outside of choke points on certain enemies. Now it's a matter of determining which enemies, exactly, and figuring out good strategies for the times where it's NOT viable.
I also went back to my troll pack, and I think that my 43% resistance (10 level 20 full plate 10 shield 3 helm) might be enough to sustain early in the game if I chug a lot of potions. But there's also another factor. Using a FMC and FMT in my test setup, I found that I can simply use those as tanks in spots where dispels are not a factor. Outside of that, I use them as pure damage dealers, but shifting seems trivial. Yes they're using mage robes so their AC is considerably weaker, but slapping a shield on them was enough to make their defensive buffs last long enough (unequip shield whenever you recast buffs, of course). Turns out that getting through x3 Stone Skin and x3 Mirror Image on two characters takes a long time even for a pack of LoB mobs. And having three front-liner "tanks" (FMC, FMT, DD) also meant a lot of collision issues for the enemy, further reducing damage output.
The key, really, is switching damage dealers between melee and ranged as needed. My Inquisitor, for example, definitely suffers a bit from the issue of being not all that great defensively (as someone mentioned before) - so during early game I gave her a throwing spear, which has nearly the same damage output as melee thanks to benefiting from STR (only suffers against missile resistance), while during later game using a 2h meant I could position behind the tank and be out of melee range for most enemies, effectively turning into a "ranged melee" damage dealer. Something similar holds for the FMC, who's using hammers - beautifully supported by Dwarven Thrower early game (thrown or melee, at will) and Crom Faeyr late game (can be thrown in its IR version), both of which benefit from STR bonuses. Those STR damage bonuses are, after all, what makes melee appealing - offhand APR, too, to an extent, but since there is no IH doubling under SR and most APR weapons are +1/2 instead of +1 under IR, it's not that huge. The FMT, consequently, would be using melee whenever possible and Sling whenever not - the ones with STR bonuses, of course (Sling of Everard until it's fixed, Sling of Force otherwise). Late game they can also use Scarlet Ninja-to with UAI, which remains at +1 APR even under IR, or otherwise GWW as everyone else.
I only did some very cursory testing, of course, but the setup looked promising. I tried to squeeze as many results out of the group as I could, and I'm sure there's problems in some spots that still need addressing, but for now this will be my setup for the next actual run, I think. Whenever that may be...
WS>Mage has much better strength curve than the druid dual as in BGEE you get MM for nice 5APR spell casting disabler with nice damage and two casters allow sorcerer to throw greater malison and then ws>mage cast slow, so a single round in order to debuff entire enemy group. A great combo.
WS>Mage can also use bow for cool combos like arrows of dispeling with spell casting failure, arrows of detonation with the same (amazing in SOD), etc. And really good DPR with boomerang dagger with dagger grandmastery in BG2.
I like to start fights by casting greater malison (sorc), slow (ws>mage), glitter dust (skald), chaos x2 (FM and FMT) which breaks enemy lines superbly. WS>mage should outperform WS>Druid by the looks of it, it syngerizes nice with WS as he can't equip any defensive items.
One cool thing about warrior to mage dual is that you can get him Vahlior Helmet very early in the game. So you end up with a pure arcane caster with simularcum early in the game which is nice! I might give vahlior to FM once he gets celestial fury... because reasons you know
So far so good, just started ch2, finished murders in bridge district and slaves quest.
Stats so far
DD 11% (13 kills)
FM 20% (20 kills)
FMT 13% (16 kills)
Skald 0%
WS>Mage 45% (52 kills)
Sorcerer 8% (10 kills)
I also used an Assassin/Fighter's Poison Weapon on Fire Seeds to similar effect, though this was before the crippling Poison Weapon nerf.
I'm not sold on WS, though. Gods know I gave it a try, in many different ways. But between not actually hitting enemies and them casting things via triggers and scripts anyway, I just did not find it amazingly useful. Or maybe it's just not being able to GWW if you dual them (and I am not running a pure WS, no sir thank you sir good day to you sir).
But who knows, I may dig it out of mothballs again for another spin or two. Some day.
Noted items
- Archer damage scaling early game is just insane, I've rushed through most fights with breeze setup #1 has 60 days versus 22 on setup #2 and that was still resting whenever I wanted or ran out of spells
- WS>mage preiously had most kills but above shows superiority of archer DPS although I prioritize archer now for buffs
- FMT got this try the burning earth, I must say this is fantastic +4 weapon for most of ch2 where there is significant amount of undead around, most of the time not having even weapon enough to hit them.,
- Sucks to have archer versus some enemies like jellies or undead kind with 100% missle resistance
- DD could outscale archer lategame because of dual widling kundane with answerer but archer ain't bad then either
- Some fights were superb easy, for instance room in tavern with bandit party has two mages, both cast remove magic as their first cast. At this point in time you dont have spell immunity so it's rough with FM and FMT frontline but Archer with Simulacrum under IH both killed imp before he managed to cast a spell (WS disabled him) and spook landed on human mage, before it ended he was dead aswell.... 20 APR dual archer is amazing could see why @Lord_Tansheron plays with two
- This run I had bit more luck with scrolls so I'm ahead in XP slightly, I didn't even leave athaka and did only cementary, murders, kidnapping, slaeves and harper bird quest and my full 6 man party is already at 850k XP. A lot for this stage of the game.
- This run I also didn't use as much summons, barely any really as I realized that most of the time I'm just overbuffing everything while I don't need to. My mirror images usually disappear from duration than hits taken.
- I'm not longer using on-hit weapons they are just too strong for LOB
Going to finish few more quests in Athaka before going umar hills (I already found diamond so I upgraded bronze horn of valhalla gonna grab some chicken beljuril to get level 9 zerker which is almost like next party member at this stage of the game.had to use enchanted weapon few times (thanks beamdog!). Burning earth is so far the best choice to bring from BGEE
This resulted in overall more kills for the party.
Not going to but it's odd... just feels wrong, hopefully nothing bricked my save.
Went to do Temple District Celestial Fury grp, wasn't hard but I had to kite dispels and some spells on hastened FMT/FM quite often., happily they are quite short range.
Anyway this run was far from poverty. I'm stole every single item from everyone in the city, chests, anyone that had loot.
At this moment I've already purchased in this order 0. reputation to 17 (slaves, murders to 20) 1. Vahlior Helmet, 2. Vecna Robes, 3. Bronze Horn upgrade, 4. gridle of hill giant strength, 5. Bracers of AC3 6. Bracers of AC4.
Still got 13k gold left so I might buy some acid arrows for my archer before going planar sphere. I actually plan on going planar sphere before trademeet and other quests, might have an issue with warden as this guy already knows timestop, will see.
I suspect it's a mod problem but I don't have the time to pinpoint which one. I just make sure it doesn't affect my game by being careful and keeping track of what I actually have.
Generally everything up to now is extremally easy, this questline has only two battles.
1. Killing cowled wizard - this went easy... breach and he is down. Not even a round. Speaking of which my party DPR must be over 300+ at this point with IH on FM/WS and Archer as he died under 5 seconds, no spells were cast.
Side note there, I'm always amazed how complex this game is, the difficulty difference between knowing and not knowing the mage chess is sooo big. In the past (before SCS, me as a kid) the cowled wizard was the first hard battle. He threw disablers, had MGOI and don't remember if he did cast PFMW but he usually was a first cause of restarts for me. While I did this game so many times now it just makes me love it even more when I can carefully plan my disablers.
2. Killing Mae'var - as my WS->Mage got level 6 spells recently she was lucky enough to get True Sight scroll from random athkatlan guard. With this fight went very easy, thieves stood no chance versus full mage skins/mirrors party. Only archer had no buffs but I slapped Spirit Armor on him.
In future, I will give her Ilbratha sword for mirrors as this will greatly help her against ranged attackers/stabbers and those pesky clerics with mirroring. I mean it's easy to take it off but with 10DPR archer she usually kills herself in almost instant
Side note here, pickpocketing athkatla guard must be best way to get high level scrolls early. Not sure if this is SCS doing as I never bothered even to level but it will be a thing I will always do from this point onward. I highly recommend this, I even got few level 7/8 scrolls.
Now feeling reckless I want to go for #2 free Haer Dalis questline
Started with freeing Haer'Dalis. Theatre is the second place in the game I remember that has high level random scroll in the secret compartment (first being second level of irenicus dungeon). I was happily surprised by finding Ruby Ray of Reversal scroll... this will solve my forever argument on level 7 sorcerer spell. This way WS->Mage will do Ruby and Sorcerer will go for Project Image. A cool thing about having second arcane caster.
I also changed my approach. In the past morde swords were always my first pick but they are often ignored by SCS due to their 100% immunities so I often use other summons (if any) rather than them so they can soak few hits. Now my first pick on level 7 is either Project Image or Ruby Ray. This run it's going to be PI so I can slap IH on everyone and get those mage chesses rolling longer. You will see why later in the post but I'm at 1mln XP mark now so still long time until that.
While at Mekrath hideout I went for first hard mage chess battle. At this point it's difficult because 3 mages at once with prebuffing takes few rounds to dispose. I wanted to clear this without any cheese so I prebuffed everyone properly and rushed in with haste. I ran head first with FM but YuanTi mages are not stupid, instead I was slapped with three secret words into remove magic next round. I quickly reloaded as I wasn't aware they are smart enough not to ignore Spell Immunity. Next run the tactic was to drop in vahlior helmet to soak first three remove magics then rush in, at this point improved haste archer started disposing of melee snakes while everyone started popping secret word/breaches left and right. True Sight is key for every mage fight from this point as everyone uses Improved Invisibility. Once true sight landed followed by instant breach from Sorc (yey for vecna) my WS>mage with Archer started raining down on first mage who dropped in seconds. FM and FMT both secret worded and then breached second and third mage. It was easier to rush in fast with proper dispel management that this kite/run/summon stuff I usually do... ps. Do you guys hate corridor fighting with 6man party as much as I do...
As I was going to get that bastard's mirror I went to the tunnels side my first observer hunting, high DPR ended it before it had a chance to deal much damage, two gauths fell seconds later. No tactic required. I also killed rakasha in the middle, happily while he is immune to level 7 spells he only uses improved invis with mirrors so true sights is a key to win again.
At this point I'm resting mostly because I have only one cast of true sight per day rather than from damage or lack of other spells.
Now to #3 planar prison itself
First fight has only one mage and few bruisers. WS>Mage easily disabled mage after sorcerer gave him a taste of breach while FMT/FM having magic missile interrupted cleric. I must say MM is still one of the best interrupters for divine casters in the game, especially since WS miscast doesn't work on them. I focused damage on the bard so once he fell I grabbed loot mid combat and gave it to Skald so she immediately could start doing damage and cast spells without losing her song. 100k XP more for her for magical level 15... not only +4+4 auras but also better skellies... will be nice power spike.
Thralls in planar prison are decently leveled mages who slap Improved Invisibility with PFMW and spell deflection so a true sight into secret word into breach are required. I sometimes use true sight into 2x secret words into spell thrust to save level 5 breaches. This is especially important on next fight. Next fight is multiple melee bruisers, one with Kundane, one mage warden, three YuanTi Mages and the giant wyvern... tough battle.
Often disposing melee is better than going for mages because on Lob fights last so long that eventually mages will shred your protections which means melee bruisers will shred your frontline... It's first time I miss my DD here
Now the warden, I cast few cloud kills and ran far with entire party pulling mages with me. Warden ignored the chase so it was much easier to handle. I didn't use the orb from master of thralls so he didn't fight his own. I didn't use it so that I can clear the trap rooms later as using the orb closes those. As I could rest after mages and before warden, the big boss here had no chance few spell disablers later he was unable to handle rain of blows and fell seconds later. He didn't even manage to cast time stop this time as WS landed miscast and it failed.
This was tough, now just need to clear traps but work is calling so I will play later in the evening.
Whats next? Maybe a trademeet now, should be easy with this party as I already overleveled a bit of ch2.
I seem to be noticing a pattern in your reports ^_^
Notable challenges during the questline are
#1 5 Druids in the middle of the map, all try to cast insect swarm on you in SCS which is nasty... Magic missile on everyone in the party works wonders here.
#2 5 Myconid spawners at the bridge. I have spawned like 100+ of those little bastards on first try so next time I prebuffed heavily and rushed in and killed 3 before they spawned any adds. One try failed because archer got confused and ripped through my party... she has some crazy thac0 now.
#3 Rakasha, three of those with high level and immunity to level 7 spells is crazy I had to micro the hell of this fight by running in with maximum prebuffed FM and potions of magic resistance in order to outlast their buffs. After this was done rest of party ran in and cleaned up the house.
#4 Cernd challenge is hard on SCS/LOB... lady has memorized 3x creeping doom and starts off with it, if it lands it's all over. Cernd had to use invis potions in order to stop her from casting as other methods were not reliable enough to interrupt her casting. His thac0 was super bad, something in levels of 7/8 so he rarely hit her even in greater warewolf form.
Interesting fact... something is bricked with LOB when custom party member is removed to let cernd join. After she rejoins her levels are maxed out. I had to drop my FMT levels to 1, hp to base of 9, reset proficiency points to base and same with thieving skills so that I can level up her again otherwise I couldn't get her HP to proper values. Something weird with EE keeper, I've set her base HP to that of value when I saved before removing her and her HP was 55 instead of 95, to get 95 I had to type in base HP in ee keeper of like 170, felt weird so I did what I described above. Also yes, I did use buttons to recalculate stats.
Now I want to finish trademeet, interestingly to my surprise and big one in fact I've got Spell Trap scroll from the tomb in trademeet, not sure if this is SCS component or one of those places in the game which roll random high-level scrolls.
Feeling confident I went to kill lich at the gate, sadly he starts the fight with spell trap and has multiple castings of spell turning, it's simply too much even for my party of 5 mages. Without ruby ray it's no point even trying to take down his defenses.
My second approach was that I buffed my party to the teeth defensively and outwaited his buffs in the tomb. He did not enjoy this visit. Happily, between his contingencies and PFMW castings WS->Mage managed to land hits which interrupted few of his critically dangerous castings... say hello to no time stop.
One cool fact is that you can outrange ADHW and other AOE spells if you hug wall wheere you enter so I just sent FM to keep lich busy at where he starts. It's also enough to outrange remove magic.
Next, I will go and take on Umar hills questline.
Stats so far, archers thac0 is already reaching engame levels as before LoB only demogorgon has -12AC.
1
16-23
6
14-19
Reloading does sometimes fix status, but HP is still bugged most of the time, only a few companions seem ok, like Rasaad.
Any help? I assume it's because of global variables, I tried console for global variables too.
C:SetGlobal("JaheiraReleased","GLOBAL",1) C:SetGlobal("JaheiraHunt","GLOBAL",1)Didn't help, any ideas?
I'm going to post my progress today as well. I've completed most of ch2 now, only NPC quests and firkragg dungeon at this moment are left.
@Lord_Tansheron Thanks man! I was surprised but it worked. Reload after rejoin works, I've noticed quick load doesn't always work but full 'load' via menu worked just fine.
QUESTS
Umar hills/Temple Ruins questline
Misc.- Get gem from the chicken as it allows upgrade of vahlior horn, level 9 berserker is quite decent fighter to use
- Clearing map, doing small quests including mimic blood quest. I'm always cheesy here as I give the blood to the cowled wizard and after we kill the golem and claim the reward I also kill him. It's tricky on lob as he immediately runs out and after 1 second he is out. So, you have barely seconds to get his 200+ hp down. Body blocking Skald and everyone on the mage did the trick for extra XP and 4k gold on him, without body block there is no way to kill him in time. In retrospective, I should use backstab more as FMT already has quadruple damage multiplier, two more levels until x5.
- Negotiate peace and do other small quests
#1 Shades by the crystal★☆☆☆☆
This fight is generally easy but party much watch out for stat drain as this many shades can drop even the best tanks. Party should utilize summons if possible to let ranged clear them out. Of course as per usual the tactic here should be using crystal that destroys shades on activation but I didn't want to lose XP
FMT ran in with boots of speed gathered all shades in tight circle and ran back to party. Upon reaching a bit of range started casting Sunray from Daystar. At the same time Sorcerer casted instant Greater Malison so that it hits before FMT finishes casting. Shades have very bad saves even on LOB so this was enough for FMT to insta kill everything. Lots of kill % was added to her stats.
#2 First room in the temple ruins
☆☆☆☆☆
Few shades, wraiths, dogs, skeletons. Nothing fancy just mirror and skin your tanks and you are good to go. Door is good choke point but it isn't necessary here.
#2 Shades at the sun crystal
☆☆☆☆☆
Similar tactic can be used to first occurrence but it isn't required if player doesn't want to rest everywhere. Watch out again for stat drains as it was once that I didn't check this and my protagonist died from strength drain here.
#3 Undead by the lava pool
★★☆☆☆
This can be tricky, two greater mummies deal a lot of disease damage. Need to be careful here, they are also immune to low level enchanted weapons so Enchanted Weapon spell is necessity here. Happily skald/fm and ws->mage can all cast it. Watch out because as soon as you engage those a second bone golem will start moving your direction from the room with the coffin, not sure why though.
I remember this room is level based so if you come here after underdark you will meet a nice lich to welcome you.
#4 Undead by puzzle room
★☆☆☆☆
Same deal as previous pack really. But I rate it lower as it doesn't have as many enemies and there is decent choke point in the corridor here.
#5 Shade Dragon
★★★★☆
Dragon is decently hard if you don't do it right. I would rate it between 3 and 4. Maybe closer to 3 but still need to keep consistent. A note to self, SCS does not nerf archer stat drain kills. I've accidentally killed shade dragon via strength drain from called shot. Archer with simulacra both under improved haste kill shade dragon after around 1/2 rounds (that time was enough to drop dragon to 50/60% health though). I could have restarted the fight but shade dragon was just matter or 2 more rounds to fall so I couldn't bother as it wasn't much of challenge anymore. For dragons ranged damage is king because they can stand out of range of wing buffet. I rated dragon without stat drains or tricks like spell save fails on disablers.
#6 Shade Lord
★★☆☆☆
Shade lord was actually funny as FMT ran in and immediately started casting sunray with sorcerer doing installer greater malison was enough for lord to fail his save and die horribly. Again, could have restarted but shade lord died so many times already that he is no longer challenge for me. I love the fact that after the fight I'm cured for level drain. No real tactics were required here but if one was to do it normally shade lord depending on SCS will buff himself lightly enough that either breach alone or secret word into breach will be enough to render him vulnerable.
Unseeing Eye questline
#1 Sewer imp & shades☆☆☆☆☆☆
I advise to you to kill this imp before doing to cultist hideout because sometimes when fighting shades on the way down it gets pulled and drops stinking cloud on your face. This can end up being troublesome if your front liners fail save.
#2 Shade Lich
★★☆☆☆☆
Liches are generally not that dangerous for heavy anti-mage party. This isn't an exception. Shade Lich doesn't know spell trap so this means few secret words into breaches and re-debuffing for contingency was enough to kill lich in 2 rounds. Since 5 out of 6 members knows both of those I love planning this in a way that all land at the same time.
Secret word is casting time of 4 and breach casting time of 5. Note that spell casting difference of 1 is so insignificant that if you don't line your party members so that secret word casters are either in front or in the same distance then breaches will land into spell turning being reflected and wasted. I did this couple of times so don't forget all those spells have flight time to consider.
#3 Belholders by the bridge of questions
★★★☆☆
This is tough battle. Shades made it worse as when you pull the observers they get pulled too. Tactic is to change entire party to ranged damage and stand near the bridge and use the small stairs as the choke point. Dropping the golem by the stairs is really good here, it will take time for them to debuff your entire party. In that time improved haste members will drop 1/2 observers and then just hope for the best
They managed to charm archer twice which ended in reload because insane thaco just ends fight as orbs debuff your party members which can't last rain of arrows. Having most party of elves and gnomes is super good here as they have resistances and good saves.
#4 Undead hideout in the lower levels of cultist hideout
★★☆☆☆☆
Quite few undead here but nothing special from tactic perspective. I usually use the right door to enter so that I can clear entire inner cave before triggering trap which spawns more undead. Bone golem with two mummies and archer undead are decently touch so make sure to target archer first as he shots frost arrows.
#5 Belholder lair big pack
★★★☆☆
Similar tactic to point 3, everyone in ranged, few summons to soak in hits. I usually like to use improved invisibility on summons to let them run in and surround the orbs, it also helps with their survivability.
#6 Heretic party in the middle
★★★☆☆
Six clerics with decent levels, lots of buffs, etc. I ran in hasted and magic missile 4 clerics to stop their casting (MM is awesome). They cast greater command and few other strong spells. It's hard to stop them from casting without insect swarm (I miss you mr druid dual). If you have druid this fight suddenly goes to 1 star as insect swarm renders entire pack quite easy. Sadly on LOB remove magic is useless, only inquisitor would have chance to dispel them. I had around 1,3mln XP at this point so paladin would have level 12 meaning dispel would be 24 so it's most likely still very very likely to fail. It's as @Lord_Tansheron
Few good options here. IH archer called shot to reduce their strength. Greater malison into slow and glitter dust works amazing here. Magic missile is best casting disruption.
#7 Unseeing eye
★★☆☆☆
Since this is spawned fight you can prepare nicely meaning it's very easy. If you use rod on unseeing eye then he dies before two more orbs spawn. At this point orbs are no danger. As per usual remember to buff with things that increase saves like blur, bless, etc. as orbs are always dangerous if they land their hits.
I do know you are big believer of SR/IR and honestly I took a deep dive into it's documentation. I don't really think its aim is to make gamer harder... stay with me for a moment here. What I mean, IR/SR nerfs OPness of spells and items but then it also buffs a lot of weak stuff, from my perspective it just smoothens the curve of the game so it indeed makes some stuff harder but other stuff easier. It is also worth nothing that it does in fact nerf OP spells but it also means my SCS mage enemies are waker because of it.
In the end yes SR/IR are adding challenge but it's relative because this game is knowledge and knowledge over gear and spells. SR/IR will render most of my knowledge useless by making me adjust to new world but once adjusted I assume it would again be around the around same difficulty as per regular SCS/LOB.
For me I will go for reach for those mods when I need freshness rather than challenge. For now I don't know. I feel like currenly most of difficulty comes from the fact that enemies outlevel you so you are not even equiped to fight with them. Not sure if there is a way to increase the challenge other than buffing HP/Thac0/AC/stats of enemies but at some points it will just provide cheese tactics a necessity so no fun.
I'm gonna think... maybe I should follow master @Grond0 style and do ridicolous solo no reload runs on LOB/SCS. Except that I love building characters so much that I hardly can restrict myself to a single character. Who doesn't ͡★ ͜ʖ ͡★ ?
Reading through your reports, I think it's pretty clear that many fights are over for you before they even begin. "Put IH on Archer and their Vhailor clone, watch everything die in 3 seconds" is a recurring theme (and for good reason) but that just doesn't work in IR/SR. Getting to 10 APR there isn't easy pre GWW, and many ridiculous items are made much more reasonable.
You are free to do what you like, of course. To me, exploration of new strategies is what I enjoy most, and for that I of course need something to actually DEMAND new strategies. I've spent 10 years perfecting the whole "kill first, don't ask questions later" approach, and I'm very glad LoB came along and made me rethink everything I thought I knew. It'll keep me entertained for years to come, I'm sure, though part of that is my horror schedule that just barely lets me play :P