Not much time to play recently but i've almost completed chapter two. With close to no NPC related quest my entire 6 man party is already at 2,5mil XP mark... insane considering I do not use any XP enchancing mods nor nightmare mode extra XP setting. This means completionist can probably get HLAs in ch2 which is ridicolous.
@Lord_Tansheron I was thinking about IR/SR... tempted to test them. One thing that I did check while digging through spell and item index of IR/SR. Does it really nerf the damage output or archers? For me it looks like its just the same and even higher under GWW.
So I haven't tested this but hear me out. Archer with taralash bow +5 in IR/SR under IH (+2 APR) has 6 APR versus vanilla 10 APR tuigan. This means I've lost 40% damage from pure APR numbers then if I can offset this by increasing my singular arrow damage by 40% then I should be back to where I was, can it be done? Not sure but you get +5 more damage per shot from taralash and +1/2/3 arrorws under IR grant +1/2/3 damage versus no bonus in EE. This means my archer will deal extra 9 damage per shot. Originally my archer now has 16-21 damage so 185 damage per round versus 25-30 in IR/SR for 165 DPR; Close! There are probably things I didn't consider here but with luck spell being 5 turns I most likely going to get exactly same DPR in IR/SR as per my EE archer now... which I sort of like it!
If above is true and GWW still grants 10 APR that means archer in IR/SR under GWW is just mad beast!
Can you share your thoughts on the matter? mine are pure paper analysis with big gap in knowledge on IR/SR.
Archers are still great, yes. And while the damage output under GWW might be the same (or higher, thanks to things like Strong Arm which frankly I find a bit unreasonably powerful), you can't maintain GWW for nearly as long as you can 10 APR with IH - not to mention you first need 3m XP just for ONE round of WW, while Tuigan and IH are available to you after 20 minutes in Athkatla or something (exaggerating, but quickly anyway).
Also, Archer is a special case because they get GWW anyway - the same was not the case for the old paradigm of fighter->mage duals, who did not get fighter HLAs at all. Which means for them it's now a choice between GWW later (if multiclass and not dual), and Grand Mastery now (which they get as dual but not multi). And honestly, it was those fully buffed ToB-weapon-wielding fighter hybrids that were the biggest boom-booms late in the game, not Archers. Archers are still great, of course, but their relative power certainly peaks at early/mid game rather than late.
Finishing underdark. I'll soon post my updates, it seems that near mid of ch2 I've crossed the power curve which ended up with me storming through all encounters so far. Even LOB/SCS underdark is super easy so far, especially since I've got HLAs in asylum.
On side note, is it possible to install SR without spell animation changes, somehow I really dislike those not sure if I will manage to play like this.
On side note, is it possible to install SR without spell animation changes, somehow I really dislike those not sure if I will manage to play like this.
Not sure what animation changes you're referring to. The only animation changes I can remember come from the Tweaks mod (various versions) which introduce IWD-style animations. Or do you mean the removal of animations for Spell Trap and the likes?
On side note, is it possible to install SR without spell animation changes, somehow I really dislike those not sure if I will manage to play like this.
Not sure what animation changes you're referring to. The only animation changes I can remember come from the Tweaks mod (various versions) which introduce IWD-style animations. Or do you mean the removal of animations for Spell Trap and the likes?
For instance mirror images got some sparkly things
I also remember that SR completly changed the model of planetars etc.
Any way to get only spell rebalancing or they are all bundled together?
Oh was it SR after all that added IWD-casting? I was sure it was Tweaks, but oh well. Either way it must be optional because I've never seen it look like that.
Finally got some time to play. Going now for new run as the last was quite boring from the moment I left underdark.
New setup
F/Illusionist (charname)
FMC
FMT
Skald
Archer
Sorcerer
Just started ch2 and must say cleric buffs are very powerful. Bless + Chant increases party strength significantly. This is also one of the coolest combos that you can go for with Minor Sequencer. Chant + PFE 10y + defensive harmony are helping with defensive strength too.
#1 Tavern Brawl ★☆☆☆☆ I wanted to test my party strength on the traven brawl right after ch2 start. This fight is decently hard on LOB/SCS as two mages nuke you with remove magic right away. Happily I was able to kill human mage in before his AI scripts activated so like under < 2 seconds. Note that I didn't use single summon here nor since start of the game.
Ps. Yes this is 34 inch ultrawide display. Makes BG gameplay amazing!
Cleared WK1 of free loot so that ch2 progression curve speeds up.
#1 Golem + Trolls in first room ☆☆☆☆☆ In WK I've only fought goldem and trollsin first room. Both fight are quite easy with this party (2 spirit trolls and 4 giant trolls).
Love having FMC even more because
More melees means mirrors/skins last longer
Cleric PFE and Defensive Harmony means longer buffs too
Is your SCS not on maximum encounter difficulty for level-based encounters? I find WK1 quite hard to clear right away in a new game.
You've misread my post @Lord_Tansheron i've only cleared it of free loot. My SCS is on max so I won't be able to kill statues just yet. Might clear just regular packs there but for now I have settled for trolls and golem. Not that I got much boost of WK loot as I only was interested in dart and quiver. Golem manual is nice but I want to try no summons run atm.
#1 Vampiric Mists + Poisonus Mist + Horror Mist ☆☆☆☆☆ Decently hard considering few unlucky rolls can instantly kill you from level drain but I've managed to kill this pack on first try with maximum prebuffing. This party is strong indeed. Enchanted weapon is my best friend early as I have raw power to nuke things but I don't have weapon enchantment levels yet.
#2 Room full of Mustard Jellies ☆☆☆☆☆ Boring but looong fight. They poison you from time to time and slow which reduced your damage drastically. Greater Malison + Glitter dust works wonder as blinded jellies wander around allowing me to focus them separately. My damage was pure nonsense low so it took what it felt like eternity.
#3 Spiders room ☆☆☆☆☆ Easy fight. Just don't let them get to your clothies since they are quite fast.
I'm at 600k XP mark so lvl
8/9/8 FMC,
8/9/10 FMT,
9/10 FI,
12 skald,
10 archer,
11 sorcerer
Feeling confident I might go De'arnise Keep to get FOA for my lovely FMC. What do you think?
ps. @Lord_Tansheron I actually forgot, there's also free small shield +2 (+3 AC) in WK1 so a nice addition to your tank early as offhands are pretty bad at this point.
At city gates a random merchant spawns. He can be easly stolen from without affecting reputation because you encounter him only once during the game. The trick is that once he notices theft he will disappear instantly.
Luckily I was able to steal 5 items on 3rd try. 2x Contigency Scrolls, 1x Flail+1, 1x Katana +1, 1x Spell Deflection scrolls. I guess having thief pays off.
So far I also got like 50+ potions of extra healing thanks to thieving and I didn't do any outside of Promenade just yet.
#1 Renfeld & Random zone ambush ☆☆☆☆☆ Easy hard part about outside zone ambushes are that your skins and buffs run out. You can avoid it by doing some micro and moving between < 8h zones but it's not necessary.
If having trouble you can always cast invis 10 yards on spawn and run out and prep for combat.
What I did is Greater Malison from Sorcerer into 2x Chaos from FMT and FM which completly disabled them. FMC again proved useful with Minor Sequencer Chant+Bless on spawn too. Thanks to those I wasn't oneshoted from backstab even when I didn't have any buffs on. Thief even when confused still chased down my weakest members but I assume it's SCS thing.
#2 Minor favor for Harpers ☆☆☆☆☆ Small building with 2 mages and 3 goblins. It's decently tough battle early on if not cheesing which is normal on SCS with multi-mage fight. By cheesing I meant zoning out when remove magic is flying your direction etc.
I ran in fully buffed (prebuffed in valygar home and ran in). Tactic is again greater malison into 2x chaos.
Note that both Chaos and GM are casting speed of 4, also FMT and FM are closer to enemies than Sorcerer when entering building. In order to first hit them with greater malison and then chaos while starting cast time at the same time is to target greater malison under their feet and Chaos spells on the edge of room but close enough to still hit everyone.
After this combo usually everyone is confused and fight becomes really easy. This combo works wonder for most of ch2.
Marked 700k xp which allowed
FMT get +1 thief level,
FMC +1 cleric level (1st 5th level spell) and
skald +1 level (+1 5th level spell).
Funny thing is. Now FMC, FMT, FM and Skald can all cast Chaos which should allow to successfully control entire groups with ease even in LOB.
Once again, the constant throughout your accounts remains vanilla spells :P I am not sure you'll face a significant challenge with things like Chaos or Improved Haste running rampant.
Once again, the constant throughout your accounts remains vanilla spells :P I am not sure you'll face a significant challenge with things like Chaos or Improved Haste running rampant.
True.
In the end I assume that is the difference between us @Lord_Tansheron. Of course nothing wrong by that it's just for me playing BG is like playing chess. I don't need to change the rules of the game, for some reason I simply enjoy testing different parties and combos; new tactics; different spells.
I think my personal enjoyment comes from how perfectly min-maxed party can I build so that I can crush LOB/SCS even faster/easier than before or at earlier stages of the game. Sometimes I like to build party focused on early strength sometimes on late game scaling and sometimes with smooth power curve. In the end I don't even know why I keep comming back to game from 20 years ago that I finished so many times already.
#1 Dearnise general troll packs (2x spirit trolls 3x giant trolls) ☆☆☆☆☆ Those are just so easy, if you don't go for tactics spirit trolls which then cast aoe then they seem sto be super easy. Improved Invis and stat drain are no issues at all.
#2 Golems ☆☆☆☆☆ Two first small ones are easy but Iron + Clay golem are hard. Clay goldem curses my FMT which doesn't allow for rebuffinf mirrors/skins.
I cleated two first statues I've went to assemble FOA. Once I did... oh my lord such a nice power spike for FMC FMC now has DUHM+RM which allows boosting his thac0 to 0/4 and weapon damage to 21-26 +3 elemental main hand and 19-24 damage.
FMC now crits golems for 50+ damage (screenshot) very nice indeed.
Tactic was to get rid of Iron Golem first while FMT with shield tanked Clay golem.
Tor'gal next but atm I have no clue on how to approach this. Might need to revisit this later on, gonna sleep on it and think about tactics at work. The only tough part about this is two yuan ti mages which i need to kills first but at them same time I can't rush in without summons to soak in few hits or I will simply run out of skins/mirrors even with 3 melee. My AC isn't simply low enough.
Kensai->Mage (bastard swords GM, scmitars) -> Foebane with belm FM (katanas, short swords) -> early game Short Sword of the Mask, Celestial Fury with Kundane FMT (long swords, two handed swords) -> varscona, daystar, etc. swapping carsomyr at 3mil mark for mage fights FMC (flails, hammers) -> FOA mainhand CF offhand Skald Sorcerer
I'm at 730k xp mark so next level big powerspike with Improved Haste.
#1 Ritual Statues ☆☆☆☆☆ Tactic was to breach right cleric statue with nuke her in 1 round (nice dps!) sorcerer buffed to teeth with skins/images/etc. tanked left side add while entire party focused on second right add wielding foebane with shield. In retrospect I should have gone for the one GWWing with halberd as he was recking my buffs or focus second cleric as he was pretty pesky summoning those aerial servants. Very hard fight at this stage.
Few notes from this run
Managed to clear WK1 statues at the book with no cheese so got access to very early foebane+3, nice spike for Kensai.
Kensai has insane Thac0 comapred to multis at this stage as she still is pure warrior. Upon obtaining foebane she has -3/3 thac0 with 22-28MH 20-26OH damage. At 1mil mark she will have -5/-2 thanks to new profficiency, levels and kensai bonus.
Kensai even though requires a lot of micro at this stage does insane damage, criting for 50-60 at start of the game (with DUHM + Kai), just obtained foebane so hoping to see this magical 70dmg crit.
Gained a lot of gold from WK1 and slaves so I was able to buy short sword of the mask and still have 21k so wondering if I should get vecna or maybe vahlior helmet or few small convinience items like 19str belt.
At tavern brawl right out of irenicus dungeon I managed to beat this fight super easy even without summons. FMT managed to surprise me with magical 140+ backstab crit instantly killing human mage. Imp mage has really bad saves so spook almost always works which meant since his fellow mage is dead he died next round surrounded by my 4 melee setup. Once two mages are dead this is really easy fight, GM into spook on rogue so he doesn't run before his time comes.
Will dual at 13, even though 6man party isn't optimal I'm storing all scrolls so I will do scroll XP loop by removing party members for brief moment. Happily kensai is my protagonist.
Anyone ever tried archer -> cleric before with purpose of maximizing ranged damage and utility? The reason FMC feels so good is primarly due to fact of having minor sequencer for instant bless+chant which is extremally potent spike both offensively and defensively, while archer->cleric wont have that they will be able to apply thaco and spell save penalties while providing party buffs.
Hey Myrag, I'm currently running a LoB-party in the no-reload thread, making decent progress in BG1. My composition is: 1: Totemic Druid (spirit animals serve as an early meatshield, as no class is really tanky enough to tank LoB enemies in early BG1) 2: Cleric/Thief (a pure utility choice, for thieving abilities, cleric buffs and debuffs - can also summon skeletons later on) 3: Skald (for the song and some arcane support plus the ability to use wands) 4: Fighter/Illusionist (planned as the primary tank for later in the game, once we get at least level 4 spells - also decent dps, and my primary spellcaster. Illusionist specialization works great with blindness early on) 5: Archer (damage dealer #1) 6: Kensai (mostly using throwing daggers, damage dealer #2)
I had to make it to around level 6 (so my totemic druid could summon 2 level 5 spirit animals) to be able to deal with just about any random monster group in the wilderness areas, and did so by going for basilisks, sirens and ankhegs (protection from petrification from my f/i, charm immunity from my spirit lion and with lvl 5 animal summons, enough hp to tank ankhegs until they could be cc'ed).
Sadly, I really can't talk about LoB in SoA/ToB yet, as this is my first real LoB experience (except for an hour long testrun to see how the difficulty mode feels like in general).
Few things regarding lategame as I've already chance a chance to try most of parties like this.
Totemic Druid - is probably the strongest summoner early game but I find them lacking in the late game. Spirit beasts cap at 10HD so they generally die very fast late game, although I never played full run with them. They are super strong against stunnable enemies and especially deadly after greater malison. While it's true that they get Deva and Prince then again noone uses Deva when they have planetar and Prince summons are short duration. Although... insect plaque is love but for some reason of OPness planetars have that too.
Kensai - Pure kensai in melee is just too much of a drag to really play it. Ranged works nice but I feel it's bad when I actually need him the most. For instance thiefs often like to one shot him with backstab because in SCS everyone else is protected with skins/mirrors/etc. Another instance is only +3 dagger in the game most dangerous enemies are immune to it.
Cleric/Thief - a good multi but I find their damage per round very subpar similarly to totemic druid late game.
Thanks for your input - your experience is certainly appreciated.
A lot of considerations for my run aren't really centered around lategame. As this is a tetralogy no-reload run, the more important thing is actually getting there. That's partly the totemic druids job, though I think that Nature's Beauty will be a very useful spell in ToB, as there's no safe against the permanent blindness effect. Also, druids make for very surviveable and low-risk charnames.
Yes, my cleric/thief won't deal a relevant amount of damage, though that's not her role anyway. I thought about going for a fighter/cleric and a fighter/thief instead, but I just couldn't bring myself to replace any of the other classes. The no-reload community generally doesn't place as high a value on damage per round compared to other BG powergamers.
As for the Kensai, so far he has the highest damage output in the party, way more than the archer or the f/i, simply with unenchanted throwing daggers - so I'm happy with his performance. He is quite squishy, so it's all about positioning. Things will definitely get rough if he has to enter melee combat, that's true. I just hope I can avoid that for most of the game. With spells like spirit armor and improved invisibilty, defenses can certainly be improved, though.
I just rolled my characters, haven't actually done anything other than the beginning sequence. Here's my party:
1) Elf FMT (Flail of Ages/ Scarlet Ninja-To) 2) Human kensai 13/ mage (Axe of Unyielding/ Kundane) 3) Human Inquisitor (Carsomyr) 4) Jaheira (Spectral Brand/ Belm)
Character 1 has gotten a bit of a bad rap in this thread, but I disagree. First of all, the argument has been made many times over that XP shouldn't really matter in a powergaming discussion, so who cares if we have a triple classed character? Additionally, the only reason we really need a thief is for UAI and the Scarlet Ninja-To. So if I'm still good there. I also need a good character to do some heavy lifting after Character 2 swtiches classes. It'll be nice to really not worry about locks, traps, and have some fun planting my own traps and backstabs too. Thirdly, while I know this character will never learn 9th level spells, I'm ok with that. The mage aspect of this character is just there as a bonus.
Character 2 has been done over a million times in this thread, and is widely accepted as the most powerful character possible. I gave the most powerful character what I view as the most powerful weapon. I'll try to sneak some mace points in there so he has a blunt weapon and a good one against undead.
Character 3 could've been Keldorn, but I decided I wanted to use him in the starting dungeon.
Character 4 is found in the starting dungeon. Sure, I could've gone with my own fighter/divine spellchucker, which could've been a bit better, but Jahiera is pretty damn good and I have more than enough STR boosting gear to make her viable. She also has great dialogue and some side quests. I will make sure character 1 is female because I don't like the romances (I liked them initially but I don't want to be bothered now).
I'd love to hear some feedback on this party. TIA!
I'm still on the fence about Jaheira. Since I want to limit myself to 4 people, I think it's cool I got to fit the three best off hand weapons in there.
OTOH, going with a multiclassed F/C, C/R, or dual classed Berserker/ Cleric might be better. I'd be using FoA and DoE, of course.
I'd really like some expert feedback about my party setup before I got too deep into the game.
Reading about how much damage I'll be taking in this game, I'm tempted to squeeze a barbarian in there, somewhere, so he can get 100% damage resistance.
Firetooth gives higher damage output despite its lower APR simply because its base damage is so high. Personally, though, I prefer the Tuigan Bow because Called Shot is more effective with high APR. High APR also cuts through Stoneskins faster.
@Klorox The reason archers are very popular for LoB is mostly based on a) the +1 to damage/thac0 they gain every 3 levels, which makes them very formbidable ranged damage dealers that keep on getting better and better and b) the fact that engaging in melee combat with an unprotected character is unadvisable in many cases, so ranged damage is much more important compared to a regular BG2 playthrough. Some people also like to use various combos with called shot (for exampled, lowered enemy saving throws allow for the use of powerful save or else-spells)
As for your party - I'm assuming that you don't intend to play BG1+SoD, just BG2+ToB? In that case, I'd still recommend that you invest into decent ranged weapon proficiencies for your characters - the FMT could go for Shortbows, the Kensage will already be good with throwing axes (and there's a good returnable throwing axe available from the sewer party right away), Keldorn already has crossbows and Jaheira slings, I guess. With only 4 characters, I think your character choices are fine, though I would propably go a slightly different route. At least Jaheira has early access to fire elementals, giving you an easy way to deal with most of early SoA.
As for character 2, I know of many people who wouldn't call this combo "the most powerful character possible" or these weapon choices the most powerful either (note that the Axe of the Unyielding instant kill effect allows a save in the EE, and LoB enemies gain a big bonus to their saves. The Ravager +6 doesn't allow a save, interestingly enough - I think Foebane might be a better choice for the mainhand, but I guess there is no universal agreement on this). However, there's not much point in repeating old arguments forever (lots of people think the berserker/mage is better (which I agree with), others might prefer a multiclass, like the F/I (which is my own personal favorite), and some think an entirely different class combo is the best, like the cleric/Ilusionist, the kensai/thief or the blade).
Comments
@Lord_Tansheron I was thinking about IR/SR... tempted to test them. One thing that I did check while digging through spell and item index of IR/SR. Does it really nerf the damage output or archers? For me it looks like its just the same and even higher under GWW.
So I haven't tested this but hear me out. Archer with taralash bow +5 in IR/SR under IH (+2 APR) has 6 APR versus vanilla 10 APR tuigan. This means I've lost 40% damage from pure APR numbers then if I can offset this by increasing my singular arrow damage by 40% then I should be back to where I was, can it be done? Not sure but you get +5 more damage per shot from taralash and +1/2/3 arrorws under IR grant +1/2/3 damage versus no bonus in EE. This means my archer will deal extra 9 damage per shot. Originally my archer now has 16-21 damage so 185 damage per round versus 25-30 in IR/SR for 165 DPR; Close! There are probably things I didn't consider here but with luck spell being 5 turns I most likely going to get exactly same DPR in IR/SR as per my EE archer now... which I sort of like it!
If above is true and GWW still grants 10 APR that means archer in IR/SR under GWW is just mad beast!
Can you share your thoughts on the matter? mine are pure paper analysis with big gap in knowledge on IR/SR.
Also, Archer is a special case because they get GWW anyway - the same was not the case for the old paradigm of fighter->mage duals, who did not get fighter HLAs at all. Which means for them it's now a choice between GWW later (if multiclass and not dual), and Grand Mastery now (which they get as dual but not multi). And honestly, it was those fully buffed ToB-weapon-wielding fighter hybrids that were the biggest boom-booms late in the game, not Archers. Archers are still great, of course, but their relative power certainly peaks at early/mid game rather than late.
On side note, is it possible to install SR without spell animation changes, somehow I really dislike those
I also remember that SR completly changed the model of planetars etc.
Any way to get only spell rebalancing or they are all bundled together?
New setup
- F/Illusionist (charname)
- FMC
- FMT
- Skald
- Archer
- Sorcerer
Just started ch2 and must say cleric buffs are very powerful. Bless + Chant increases party strength significantly. This is also one of the coolest combos that you can go for with Minor Sequencer. Chant + PFE 10y + defensive harmony are helping with defensive strength too.#1 Tavern Brawl
★☆☆☆☆
I wanted to test my party strength on the traven brawl right after ch2 start. This fight is decently hard on LOB/SCS as two mages nuke you with remove magic right away. Happily I was able to kill human mage in before his AI scripts activated so like under < 2 seconds. Note that I didn't use single summon here nor since start of the game.
Ps. Yes this is 34 inch ultrawide display. Makes BG gameplay amazing!
#1 Golem + Trolls in first room
☆☆☆☆☆
In WK I've only fought goldem and trollsin first room. Both fight are quite easy with this party (2 spirit trolls and 4 giant trolls).
Love having FMC even more because
#1 Vampiric Mists + Poisonus Mist + Horror Mist
☆☆☆☆☆
Decently hard considering few unlucky rolls can instantly kill you from level drain but I've managed to kill this pack on first try with maximum prebuffing. This party is strong indeed.
Enchanted weapon is my best friend early as I have raw power to nuke things but I don't have weapon enchantment levels yet.
#2 Room full of Mustard Jellies
☆☆☆☆☆
Boring but looong fight. They poison you from time to time and slow which reduced your damage drastically. Greater Malison + Glitter dust works wonder as blinded jellies wander around allowing me to focus them separately. My damage was pure nonsense low so it took what it felt like eternity.
#3 Spiders room
☆☆☆☆☆
Easy fight. Just don't let them get to your clothies since they are quite fast.
I'm at 600k XP mark so lvl
- 8/9/8 FMC,
- 8/9/10 FMT,
- 9/10 FI,
- 12 skald,
- 10 archer,
- 11 sorcerer
Feeling confident I might go De'arnise Keep to get FOA for my lovely FMC. What do you think?ps. @Lord_Tansheron I actually forgot, there's also free small shield +2 (+3 AC) in WK1 so a nice addition to your tank early as offhands are pretty bad at this point.
At city gates a random merchant spawns. He can be easly stolen from without affecting reputation because you encounter him only once during the game. The trick is that once he notices theft he will disappear instantly.
Luckily I was able to steal 5 items on 3rd try. 2x Contigency Scrolls, 1x Flail+1, 1x Katana +1, 1x Spell Deflection scrolls. I guess having thief pays off.
So far I also got like 50+ potions of extra healing thanks to thieving and I didn't do any outside of Promenade just yet.
#1 Renfeld & Random zone ambush
☆☆☆☆☆
Easy hard part about outside zone ambushes are that your skins and buffs run out. You can avoid it by doing some micro and moving between < 8h zones but it's not necessary.
If having trouble you can always cast invis 10 yards on spawn and run out and prep for combat.
What I did is Greater Malison from Sorcerer into 2x Chaos from FMT and FM which completly disabled them. FMC again proved useful with Minor Sequencer Chant+Bless on spawn too. Thanks to those I wasn't oneshoted from backstab even when I didn't have any buffs on. Thief even when confused still chased down my weakest members but I assume it's SCS thing.
#2 Minor favor for Harpers
☆☆☆☆☆
Small building with 2 mages and 3 goblins. It's decently tough battle early on if not cheesing which is normal on SCS with multi-mage fight. By cheesing I meant zoning out when remove magic is flying your direction etc.
I ran in fully buffed (prebuffed in valygar home and ran in). Tactic is again greater malison into 2x chaos.
Note that both Chaos and GM are casting speed of 4, also FMT and FM are closer to enemies than Sorcerer when entering building. In order to first hit them with greater malison and then chaos while starting cast time at the same time is to target greater malison under their feet and Chaos spells on the edge of room but close enough to still hit everyone.
After this combo usually everyone is confused and fight becomes really easy. This combo works wonder for most of ch2.
Marked 700k xp which allowed
- FMT get +1 thief level,
- FMC +1 cleric level (1st 5th level spell) and
- skald +1 level (+1 5th level spell).
Funny thing is. Now FMC, FMT, FM and Skald can all cast Chaos which should allow to successfully control entire groups with ease even in LOB.In the end I assume that is the difference between us @Lord_Tansheron. Of course nothing wrong by that it's just for me playing BG is like playing chess. I don't need to change the rules of the game, for some reason I simply enjoy testing different parties and combos; new tactics; different spells.
I think my personal enjoyment comes from how perfectly min-maxed party can I build so that I can crush LOB/SCS even faster/easier than before or at earlier stages of the game. Sometimes I like to build party focused on early strength sometimes on late game scaling and sometimes with smooth power curve. In the end I don't even know why I keep comming back to game from 20 years ago that I finished so many times already.
#1 Dearnise general troll packs (2x spirit trolls 3x giant trolls)
☆☆☆☆☆
Those are just so easy, if you don't go for tactics spirit trolls which then cast aoe then they seem sto be super easy. Improved Invis and stat drain are no issues at all.
#2 Golems
☆☆☆☆☆
Two first small ones are easy but Iron + Clay golem are hard. Clay goldem curses my FMT which doesn't allow for rebuffinf mirrors/skins.
I cleated two first statues I've went to assemble FOA. Once I did... oh my lord such a nice power spike for FMC
FMC now crits golems for 50+ damage (screenshot) very nice indeed.
Tactic was to get rid of Iron Golem first while FMT with shield tanked Clay golem.
Tor'gal next but atm I have no clue on how to approach this. Might need to revisit this later on, gonna sleep on it and think about tactics at work. The only tough part about this is two yuan ti mages which i need to kills first but at them same time I can't rush in without summons to soak in few hits or I will simply run out of skins/mirrors even with 3 melee. My AC isn't simply low enough.
Now trying
Kensai->Mage (bastard swords GM, scmitars) -> Foebane with belm
FM (katanas, short swords) -> early game Short Sword of the Mask, Celestial Fury with Kundane
FMT (long swords, two handed swords) -> varscona, daystar, etc. swapping carsomyr at 3mil mark for mage fights
FMC (flails, hammers) -> FOA mainhand CF offhand
Skald
Sorcerer
I'm at 730k xp mark so next level big powerspike with Improved Haste.
#1 Ritual Statues
☆☆☆☆☆
Tactic was to breach right cleric statue with nuke her in 1 round (nice dps!) sorcerer buffed to teeth with skins/images/etc. tanked left side add while entire party focused on second right add wielding foebane with shield. In retrospect I should have gone for the one GWWing with halberd as he was recking my buffs or focus second cleric as he was pretty pesky summoning those aerial servants.
Very hard fight at this stage.
Few notes from this run
- Managed to clear WK1 statues at the book with no cheese so got access to very early foebane+3, nice spike for Kensai.
- Kensai has insane Thac0 comapred to multis at this stage as she still is pure warrior. Upon obtaining foebane she has -3/3 thac0 with 22-28MH 20-26OH damage. At 1mil mark she will have -5/-2 thanks to new profficiency, levels and kensai bonus.
- Kensai even though requires a lot of micro at this stage does insane damage, criting for 50-60 at start of the game (with DUHM + Kai), just obtained foebane so hoping to see this magical 70dmg crit.
- Gained a lot of gold from WK1 and slaves so I was able to buy short sword of the mask and still have 21k so wondering if I should get vecna or maybe vahlior helmet or few small convinience items like 19str belt.
- At tavern brawl right out of irenicus dungeon I managed to beat this fight super easy even without summons. FMT managed to surprise me with magical 140+ backstab crit instantly killing human mage. Imp mage has really bad saves so spook almost always works which meant since his fellow mage is dead he died next round surrounded by my 4 melee setup. Once two mages are dead this is really easy fight, GM into spook on rogue so he doesn't run before his time comes.
- Will dual at 13, even though 6man party isn't optimal I'm storing all scrolls so I will do scroll XP loop by removing party members for brief moment. Happily kensai is my protagonist.
Stats areKensai->M 36%
F/Illusionist 10%
FMT 21%
FMC 18%
Skald 0%
Sorcerer 12%
Some kills are pure randomness and FM will speed up now since he went from base katana to short sword of the mark.
Bonus screen, nice dps from kensai hitting for 30dmg straight out of irenicus dungeon.
Feeling lonely.
Anyone ever tried archer -> cleric before with purpose of maximizing ranged damage and utility? The reason FMC feels so good is primarly due to fact of having minor sequencer for instant bless+chant which is extremally potent spike both offensively and defensively, while archer->cleric wont have that they will be able to apply thaco and spell save penalties while providing party buffs.
1: Totemic Druid (spirit animals serve as an early meatshield, as no class is really tanky enough to tank LoB enemies in early BG1)
2: Cleric/Thief (a pure utility choice, for thieving abilities, cleric buffs and debuffs - can also summon skeletons later on)
3: Skald (for the song and some arcane support plus the ability to use wands)
4: Fighter/Illusionist (planned as the primary tank for later in the game, once we get at least level 4 spells - also decent dps, and my primary spellcaster. Illusionist specialization works great with blindness early on)
5: Archer (damage dealer #1)
6: Kensai (mostly using throwing daggers, damage dealer #2)
I had to make it to around level 6 (so my totemic druid could summon 2 level 5 spirit animals) to be able to deal with just about any random monster group in the wilderness areas, and did so by going for basilisks, sirens and ankhegs (protection from petrification from my f/i, charm immunity from my spirit lion and with lvl 5 animal summons, enough hp to tank ankhegs until they could be cc'ed).
Sadly, I really can't talk about LoB in SoA/ToB yet, as this is my first real LoB experience (except for an hour long testrun to see how the difficulty mode feels like in general).
Few things regarding lategame as I've already chance a chance to try most of parties like this.
Totemic Druid - is probably the strongest summoner early game but I find them lacking in the late game. Spirit beasts cap at 10HD so they generally die very fast late game, although I never played full run with them. They are super strong against stunnable enemies and especially deadly after greater malison. While it's true that they get Deva and Prince then again noone uses Deva when they have planetar and Prince summons are short duration. Although... insect plaque is love but for some reason of OPness planetars have that too.
Kensai - Pure kensai in melee is just too much of a drag to really play it. Ranged works nice but I feel it's bad when I actually need him the most. For instance thiefs often like to one shot him with backstab because in SCS everyone else is protected with skins/mirrors/etc. Another instance is only +3 dagger in the game most dangerous enemies are immune to it.
Cleric/Thief - a good multi but I find their damage per round very subpar similarly to totemic druid late game.
Keep us updated!
Thanks for your input - your experience is certainly appreciated.
A lot of considerations for my run aren't really centered around lategame. As this is a tetralogy no-reload run, the more important thing is actually getting there. That's partly the totemic druids job, though I think that Nature's Beauty will be a very useful spell in ToB, as there's no safe against the permanent blindness effect. Also, druids make for very surviveable and low-risk charnames.
Yes, my cleric/thief won't deal a relevant amount of damage, though that's not her role anyway. I thought about going for a fighter/cleric and a fighter/thief instead, but I just couldn't bring myself to replace any of the other classes. The no-reload community generally doesn't place as high a value on damage per round compared to other BG powergamers.
As for the Kensai, so far he has the highest damage output in the party, way more than the archer or the f/i, simply with unenchanted throwing daggers - so I'm happy with his performance. He is quite squishy, so it's all about positioning. Things will definitely get rough if he has to enter melee combat, that's true. I just hope I can avoid that for most of the game. With spells like spirit armor and improved invisibilty, defenses can certainly be improved, though.
Enuhal
I just rolled my characters, haven't actually done anything other than the beginning sequence. Here's my party:
1) Elf FMT (Flail of Ages/ Scarlet Ninja-To)
2) Human kensai 13/ mage (Axe of Unyielding/ Kundane)
3) Human Inquisitor (Carsomyr)
4) Jaheira (Spectral Brand/ Belm)
Character 1 has gotten a bit of a bad rap in this thread, but I disagree. First of all, the argument has been made many times over that XP shouldn't really matter in a powergaming discussion, so who cares if we have a triple classed character? Additionally, the only reason we really need a thief is for UAI and the Scarlet Ninja-To. So if I'm still good there. I also need a good character to do some heavy lifting after Character 2 swtiches classes. It'll be nice to really not worry about locks, traps, and have some fun planting my own traps and backstabs too. Thirdly, while I know this character will never learn 9th level spells, I'm ok with that. The mage aspect of this character is just there as a bonus.
Character 2 has been done over a million times in this thread, and is widely accepted as the most powerful character possible. I gave the most powerful character what I view as the most powerful weapon. I'll try to sneak some mace points in there so he has a blunt weapon and a good one against undead.
Character 3 could've been Keldorn, but I decided I wanted to use him in the starting dungeon.
Character 4 is found in the starting dungeon. Sure, I could've gone with my own fighter/divine spellchucker, which could've been a bit better, but Jahiera is pretty damn good and I have more than enough STR boosting gear to make her viable. She also has great dialogue and some side quests. I will make sure character 1 is female because I don't like the romances (I liked them initially but I don't want to be bothered now).
I'd love to hear some feedback on this party. TIA!
I'm still on the fence about Jaheira. Since I want to limit myself to 4 people, I think it's cool I got to fit the three best off hand weapons in there.
OTOH, going with a multiclassed F/C, C/R, or dual classed Berserker/ Cleric might be better. I'd be using FoA and DoE, of course.
I'd really like some expert feedback about my party setup before I got too deep into the game.
I'm looking forward to trying one out!
What's better, crossbows (firetooth) or short bows (tuigan/gesen)?
As for your party - I'm assuming that you don't intend to play BG1+SoD, just BG2+ToB?
In that case, I'd still recommend that you invest into decent ranged weapon proficiencies for your characters - the FMT could go for Shortbows, the Kensage will already be good with throwing axes (and there's a good returnable throwing axe available from the sewer party right away), Keldorn already has crossbows and Jaheira slings, I guess. With only 4 characters, I think your character choices are fine, though I would propably go a slightly different route. At least Jaheira has early access to fire elementals, giving you an easy way to deal with most of early SoA.
As for character 2, I know of many people who wouldn't call this combo "the most powerful character possible" or these weapon choices the most powerful either (note that the Axe of the Unyielding instant kill effect allows a save in the EE, and LoB enemies gain a big bonus to their saves. The Ravager +6 doesn't allow a save, interestingly enough - I think Foebane might be a better choice for the mainhand, but I guess there is no universal agreement on this). However, there's not much point in repeating old arguments forever (lots of people think the berserker/mage is better (which I agree with), others might prefer a multiclass, like the F/I (which is my own personal favorite), and some think an entirely different class combo is the best, like the cleric/Ilusionist, the kensai/thief or the blade).
Without knowing the setting that well, it sounds like one of these would be invaluable to soak damage.