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Epiphany: Best thing for Beamdog to do: 1.IWD2EE -> 2.new 3E adventure

YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,060
in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
3E is the best of the D&D sets for a CRPG (or rather 3.5E is). No contest.

IWD2 was the best of the Infinity Engine games when it comes to balance and design. It definitely deserves an EE treatment.
But it lacks two specific very important things:

1. No Epic Story! (Bhallspawn saga tied the BG series together in a way that IWD1/2 never had.)
2. No SCS. (Seriously, without good AI a sophisticated game system is useless!)

Challenge to Beamdog:

- Sell us IWD2EE (develop a good frigging AI for it this time though, please, unlike the IWDEE)
- use that version of the engine to sell us a new game (I'm willing to pay $40 for a full adventure.)


Comments

  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,766
    Uh oh, I can see the inferno of a flamewar coming up on the horizon based on some of your statements.
    But yeah, a new game with the IWD2:EE engine would probably be pretty dope. Based on how well IWD2:EE will turn out.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    edited March 2015
    I know a CRPG game that is awesome and in 3.5E and was even made by certain members of Beamdog...
    NWN

    *whistles innocently*
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,766
    One could argue that NWN was a let down in terms of story, immersion and character writing and also that the controls and aesthetics where not up to par with it's predecessors :P
    NWN2 on the other hand ...
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,060
    NWN2 was miles better than NWN, but neither was as good as BG/BG2.

    Because:

    1. Lousy story (especially NWN1; NWN2 was okay, but grindy). Give me something epic.
    2. 3D was a let down. I don't wanna struggle with cameras (which is why the new Torment and Pillars make do without it)
    3. I don't care about a construction set. I pay $40 for someone to make me game, not give me the tools to make myself one. (Modability is okay though.)


    No need for a flamewar.
    I have a hard time imagining someone arguing that a new epic Infinity-like game is a bad thing. And for Beamdog's expertise, it best built upon the best version of the Infinity engine. And that is IWD2.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,760
    Buttercheese said:

    Uh oh, I can see the inferno of a flamewar coming up on the horizon based on some of your statements.

    Banhammer is ready just in case
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    There is the little known tactics4iwd2 mod for iwd2. It is like scs, and actually I find it much more difficult. Mages are super, super cruel, casting disintegrate and finger of death on low fortitude party members. (these spells are very difficult to resist, and kill permanently in iwd2)
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    edited March 2015
    HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT SOMETHING SOMETHING ARGUMENT SOMETHING!

    Actually
    Buttercheese said:

    image
    This isn't too much to ask for ... right?

    Actually. I would LOVE this!

    . . .

    I should try out that BG1 mod for NWN2 some day.

    Edit: Blargghh why must time be a resource? Between Pool of Radiance, Dragon Age: Inquisition, and college classes I don't have time to add another game T_T
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2015
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Wizards of the coast would not allow a new game to be in an older version of D&D allegedly.

    I am in the same boat that IWD2 does not need an EE version of itself.
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,060
    Buttercheese said:

    image
    This isn't too much to ask for ... right?

    Buttercheese said:

    image
    Shut up and take my money.

  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,060
    edited March 2015
    subtledoctor said:

    What exactly is there to "enhance" in IWD2?

    Err... actually... I tried playing IWD2 just last week. Couldn't.

    EE games spoiled us regarding graphics and UI. Playing IWD2 un-EEed felt like playing Ultima IV once again. *shudder*

    So, yeah, I'll totally buy IWD2EE - especially if they upgrade the AI!


    Also, you do realize that IWD2 is not in 2E, right?
    It is a quasi-3E setup.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2015
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    I'd buy IWD2:EE just for the resolution and UI scaling stuff. I never did get the old resolution mod to work correctly >_<
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    edited March 2015
    Ygramul said:

    NWN2 was miles better than NWN, but neither was as good as BG/BG2.

    Because:

    1. Lousy story (especially NWN1; NWN2 was okay, but grindy). Give me something epic.
    2. 3D was a let down. I don't wanna struggle with cameras (which is why the new Torment and Pillars make do without it)
    3. I don't care about a construction set. I pay $40 for someone to make me game, not give me the tools to make myself one. (Modability is okay though.)


    No need for a flamewar.
    I have a hard time imagining someone arguing that a new epic Infinity-like game is a bad thing. And for Beamdog's expertise, it best built upon the best version of the Infinity engine. And that is IWD2.

    I really didn't like the OC for NWN2. It was the start of the trend for making NPCs more realistic (i.e boring). NWN did get HotU, which was excellent.

    Both NW games suffered from sucky graphics.


    We know that Beamdog would never get the DnD licence for any NEW games unless they used the current ruleset.
  • toolargtoolarg Member Posts: 180
    edited March 2015
    Im not sure if a completely new IE game would be good business for Beamdog. A couple of years ago it would have been a solid choice I think, but recently some isometric RPGs that pay homage to the IE games and other classic isometric RPGs but with newer technology have been released. If Beamdog were to release a new IE game, with all its limitations and quirks, it would be compared to these new releases. Besides, keep in mind that making a completely new adventure the size of BG is a massive undertaking. Completely new assets for everything sans *maybe* character sprites.
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,766
    @toolarg: Good point, hard to argue with that.
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,060
    edited March 2015
    Indeed. Good points.

    Also, I'll to admit one more worry:

    Beamdog has yet to prove itself capable of delivering excellent content. Their new EE content was better for BG2 than for BG but it is still pretty weak. (I remember playing Neera's quest in BG2 and feeling constantly lamenting the lost opportunities.)

    Still, at least they support their customers and listen to them. This is what deserves our support - and our benefit of the doubt.

    Can they deliver a NEW A+ game worth full price? I am willing to bet on it with my pre-purchase, despite some misgivings and quirks.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited March 2015
    @Ygramul: To be totally and completely fair, though, "Mask of the Betrayer" blows BG out of the water. In terms of story, character, setting, player agency, complexity, it's not even a contest. So there's something to be said for a toolbox being used properly (especially since the same has been said many times about "Hordes of the Underdark" being vastly superior to the core NWN1 campaign).
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    shawne said:

    @Ygramul: To be totally and completely fair, though, "Mask of the Betrayer" blows BG out of the water. In terms of story, character, setting, player agency, complexity, it's not even a contest. So there's something to be said for a toolbox being used properly (especially since the same has been said many times about "Hordes of the Underdark" being vastly superior to the core NWN1 campaign).

    I keep hearing that MotB is awesome :(
    I own NWN2 and the expansions but arghh I have too many games to play+Class DX

    After I beat Dragon Age: Inquisition and Pools of Radiance I DEFINITELY need to go play NWN 1 and 2 again along with the expansions. I've done the OC for NWN but never played the expansions or any of NWN2 >_<.
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,060
    shawne said:

    @Ygramul: To be totally and completely fair, though, "Mask of the Betrayer" blows BG out of the water. In terms of story, character, setting, player agency, complexity, it's not even a contest. So there's something to be said for a toolbox being used properly (especially since the same has been said many times about "Hordes of the Underdark" being vastly superior to the core NWN1 campaign).

    MotB and HotU were both excellent expansions. They also feature some of the best writing for D&D this side of Torment.

    Their only issues are the silly 3D Engine that NWN/NWN2 is using and that they are not the epic 200+ hour campaign I need starting from my lvl 1 weakling to the demigod it becomes at the end of the campaign. (Also, D&D ruleset isn't meant to gracefully handle such epic levels -- it strains under the pressure.)

    But yes, good campaign design by Beamdog should learn from these excellent expansion.
  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    Ygramul said:

    shawne said:

    @Ygramul: To be totally and completely fair, though, "Mask of the Betrayer" blows BG out of the water. In terms of story, character, setting, player agency, complexity, it's not even a contest. So there's something to be said for a toolbox being used properly (especially since the same has been said many times about "Hordes of the Underdark" being vastly superior to the core NWN1 campaign).

    MotB and HotU were both excellent expansions. They also feature some of the best writing for D&D this side of Torment.

    Their only issues are the silly 3D Engine that NWN/NWN2 is using and that they are not the epic 200+ hour campaign I need starting from my lvl 1 weakling to the demigod it becomes at the end of the campaign. (Also, D&D ruleset isn't meant to gracefully handle such epic levels -- it strains under the pressure.)

    But yes, good campaign design by Beamdog should learn from these excellent expansion.
    The only thing that kept me from playing it in the past is I can never decide if I want to play a Wizard Necromancer or Cleric :(

    I solved the issue for NWN1 with a mod that adds the True Necromancer from Libris Mortis that's an Arcane/Cleric hybrid prestige class. It SUCKS as far as power gaming goes but SO MUCH FLAVOR.

    For NWN2 I think I might just play a Cleric with the Death and Magic domains for a psuedo-mage/cleric class.

    Back on subject though, they should add prestige classes to IWD2 if they can XD Would love a Mystic Theurge or something so I can play my 2nd edition style Cleric/Mages in the game and such :3
  • YgramulYgramul Member Posts: 1,060
    For some reason I nearly always just HAD to play a Warlock in NWN2.

    Too bad no warlocks were implemented in EE games. Shouldn't be too hard to code.
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