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Druid love?

BollywoodHeroBollywoodHero Member Posts: 89
edited August 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
You guys gonna give the druids some love? Bigger spell selection please!
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Comments

  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,498
    edited August 2012
    IWD HoW style shapeshifting would float my boat.
    i.e adding new forms over time, each more powerful/useful for different scenarios, not just a bunch of similar animals only useful for a limited time. Though the spider form of the avenger was extremely useful at times.
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    That's exactly the reason as to why I love Divine Remix so much. Want new spells? Lots of them in the divine spell spheres. Want new shapes to shift into? Enter the Oozemaster kit and his slimy forms!

    I really hope we'll see more of it with the coming of BG:EE.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Druids were fine for BG1. It was in BG2 they were horrible, what with the nonsensical level cap of 14.
  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    Never played a Druid... Should I now? What is good about them?
  • MoomintrollMoomintroll Member Posts: 1,498
    @Anduin Druids have insect plague with pretty much switches off most enemy spellcasters and if you pick Avenger - all those level one spell slots you get with high wisdom can be filled up with chromatic orb, you can shapeshift into a spider and.. I think you can cast web+ some other stuff.
  • PaheejPaheej Member Posts: 126
    They need to make Shapeshifters awesome.

    Because, well, they're awful.
  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    They'll get Iron Skins in BGEE, no? I mean, they could hit level 10 on TotSC... And Iron Skins in BG1 = Killer.

    Now, try something new : Avenger druid, with Iron Skins, Cast web on enemies, shapeshift to sword spider - kill anything.

    Killed Sarevok on BGT once that way. Super easy O_O

    And in BG2? Greater Elemental summoning. Meet Sunnis, your new best friend, possibly the second strongest summon after the planetar :p
  • JolanthusJolanthus Member Posts: 292
    sandmanCCL said:

    what with the nonsensical level cap of 14.

    2e rules.

  • SilenceSilence Member Posts: 437
    The one saving grace of the Druid is the early and easy access to the Summon Fire Elemental spell. Druids can cast this long before the Cleric or Mage gets a summoning spell of comparable power. Conjure Fire Elemental is powerful in BG2, but is rapidly eclipsed by the Cleric's Aeriel Servant. If you remove the XP cap, you can easily get this spell in BG1.

    @Moomintroll: IWD shapeshifting kicked ass. The forms looked cool and were useful. Shapeshifting in BG is pretty blah.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    Paheej said:

    They need to make Shapeshifters awesome.

    Because, well, they're awful.

    Shapeshifters are only bad because they're bugged and coded wrong. Half the stuff their werewolf forms are supposed to get isn't actually applied. Once you've actually got immunity to non-magical weapons and regeneration working, you're unstoppable.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Jolanthus said:

    sandmanCCL said:

    what with the nonsensical level cap of 14.

    2e rules.

    The level 14 cap had nothing to do with AD&D rules. It had everything to do with someone at Bioware thinking that instead of figuring out a way to implement high level druid abilities even half-assed, they'd just stunt their growth and call it a day. I recall reading interviews from back in the day where someone said something like, "We couldn't implement them the way they were intended according to the rulebooks so we decided just to stop them there." It makes literally zero sense.

    If they fix druids for BG2, then I will probably play one right out the gate. Or at least use Jaheira because it's borderline impossible to get her druid side to 15 even all the way through Throne of Bhaal.
  • SilenceSilence Member Posts: 437
    edited August 2012
    A big problem for me is they kept the Druid's XP table from PnP without also implementing all the fun events surrounding druid advancement. Those could really have made the class more fun.

    This is one case where I think being true to 2nd edition was not a good idea, IMO. In BG2, regardless of how you try and balance the druid class and its kits, the level advancement will undermine that balance. The Druid is competitive until about halfway through the game, and then it just stops levelling!
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    I'm totally gonna mod my game to make Faldorn an Avenger so she's actually interesting, lol.
  • BollywoodHeroBollywoodHero Member Posts: 89
    the druid is just way too tedious to be feasible in BG2. It needs to be scrapped. Bring it back to the drawing board and implement: a more friendly levelling system (does anyone actually care about the silly 2e druid lore? Use cleric levelling); shapechange forms that progressively increase in power; and a wider selection of spells (control and direct damage).
  • hansolohansolo Member Posts: 136
    edited August 2012
    The druid is mostly ok as it is. The gap between level 14 and 15 can get tedious, yes, but on the other hand the druid gets an insane amount of spellslots at level 15. Plus he has quite an arsenal of overpowered spells: Iron skins, early fire elemental which itself wrecks havoc on most ennemies, the summon insect line of spells.
    The only minor complaint I'd have is the rather limited usefulness of the 3 standart shapechange forms.
  • beerflavourbeerflavour Member Posts: 117
    edited September 2012
    sandmanCCL said:

    ...

    The level 14 cap had nothing to do with AD&D rules. It had everything to do with someone at Bioware thinking that instead of figuring out a way to implement high level druid abilities even half-assed, they'd just stunt their growth and call it a day. I recall reading interviews from back in the day where someone said something like, "We couldn't implement them the way they were intended according to the rulebooks so we decided just to stop them there." It makes literally zero sense.

    If they fix druids for BG2, then I will probably play one right out the gate. Or at least use Jaheira because it's borderline impossible to get her druid side to 15 even all the way through Throne of Bhaal.

    The druid has some peculiar level progression. He gets an early headstart (to get from level 1 to level 12 only requires a total of 300k xp) and after level 12 the progression slows down. To reach level 13 you need to earn 450k xp. To reach level 14 you have to earn 750k. To reach level 15 you had to earn 1500k xp. After level 15 you need to earn 500k xp. This level advancement hurts multi-classes like Jaheira the most (but it's according to the rules). It's not Bioware's fault. Bioware actually were so friendly as to not implement PnP leveling restrictions (i.e. to attain certain levels you had to take the position from another druid. Somehow druid level and druidic organisations were intermingled). ,)
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    In the AD&D 1e Rules, 14th Level was the highest level druid you could be. Unearthed Arcana introduced the Grand Druid, who ruled over Druids all over the world (While "Great Druid", the previous Level 14 position, merely ruled the druids on one continent). After that, you had to step down and start over as a Heirophant Druid- essentially a Druid who took an interest in other planes. These Druids had the ability to survive on other, elemental, planes as if they were on the Prime Material Plane, and summon Elementals of various sorts- Air, Earth, Water, Fire. They were immune to poison of pretty much all types, and had as many extra years of life as their level times 10 (16th level? 160 years.) and returned to their prime of life, plus were able to shapeshift at will. Not bad as an HLA, don't you think?
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
    Damnit, I clicked on this thread expecting pictures :(
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @Ajwz Dendrophilia?

    image
  • JamesJames Member Posts: 110
    LadyRhian said:

    @Ajwz Dendrophilia?

    image

    The love that dare not speak its name
  • chickenhedchickenhed Member Posts: 208
    ajwz said:

    Permidion_Stark said:

    I think that girl is barking up the wrong tree. When spring comes he'll leave.

    And she'll pine for him.
    I love the internet
  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
    sandmanCCL said:

    Druids were fine for BG1. It was in BG2 they were horrible, what with the nonsensical level cap of 14.

    Actually Druid Caps at 14 made sense in the Original rule set.
  • BollywoodHeroBollywoodHero Member Posts: 89
    It did not make sense from the perspective of class balance. Druids stop advancing after getting only half of the XP cap in SoA.

    Now, if you're talking about the game being consistent with D&D lore, then yes it made sense. But druid lore is stupid. Only 1 Great druid per region? 1 Grand druid in the whole world? Just stupid...
  • immagikmanimmagikman Member Posts: 664
    BollywoodHero said:

    It did not make sense from the perspective of class balance. Druids stop advancing after getting only half of the XP cap in SoA.

    Now, if you're talking about the game being consistent with D&D lore, then yes it made sense. But druid lore is stupid. Only 1 Great druid per region? 1 Grand druid in the whole world? Just stupid...

    Druids as per the 1st Edition rules where they showed up had their cap explained quite nicely. They had a well structured organization and hierachy and level 14 culminated at the peak of the class with the Grand Druid.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    BollywoodHero said:

    It did not make sense from the perspective of class balance. Druids stop advancing after getting only half of the XP cap in SoA.

    Now, if you're talking about the game being consistent with D&D lore, then yes it made sense. But druid lore is stupid. Only 1 Great druid per region? 1 Grand druid in the whole world? Just stupid...

    Much as I love Baldur's Gate, the world does not revolve around BG, but in fact tabletop AD&D. Sorry bud.
  • LadyRhianLadyRhian Member Posts: 14,694
    @BollywoodHero Catholic Christians only have one Pope to rule their organization over the whole world. Druidic hierarchy is no more or less stupid than that.
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