weapon speed cap?

MrMidas

hi folks.

if I have kensai wielding longswords will there be a limit on how much their weapon speed counts for? is there a limit of "0"?

thanks!

btw a quick description of what weapon speed actually does would be awesome.

Heindrich

IIRC weapon speed just determines the order of attacks, weapon speed 0 is as low as it gets and it will attack before 1, which attacks before 2, etc... It has nothing to do with number of attacks, so it's not hugely important.

MrMidas

thanks!

Tresset

Weapon speed already has no meaning when you start the game, and its purpose becomes even more meaningless the more APR you get. Some statistics are best ignored...

semiticgoddess

Weapon speed at the start of BG1 can determine who kills who, considering you can kill or be killed within one or two hits. Works just like BG1 missile weapons. Archer kills swordsman kills halberdier, because the first one to strike has the advantage.

In BG2, it does become less meaningful, as APR increases and it takes more hits to bring down an enemy. But it can increase the likelihood of interrupting a mage spell. And if an enemy is running away--say, you hit them with Horror--your weapon speed will determine how often, if at all, you can hit them. I remember chasing around a fleeing Shadow for ages when playing as a Cleric/Mage/Thief (a Mage/Thief with tweaks to make it more like a cleric), because my speed factor was 7 and I couldn't land a hit unless the Shadow stopped moving for a moment.

Normally, you don't need to worry about being able to hit fleeing enemies. But there are circumstances, when the enemy is running away or simply confused (or in SCS, is making a tactical movement), that you can lose an attack or more due to your weapon speed being too low.

So it does have meaning. It just doesn't have a major impact on the game, and the impact it does have is hard to see unless you're looking for it.

Flashburn

Weapon speed is also somewhat important when it comes to backstabs. The higher your weapon speed, the longer you'll be waiting for your character to actually make an attack.

You can be denied a backstab in early levels when your stealth isn't as reliable if your stealth roll fails and you're still waiting for your character to land the backstab due to slow weapon speed factor. I know its happened to me at least once.

semiticgoddess

The Boots of Speed can also prevent backstabs from happening at all, at least if your APR is 1. You turn visible before you even make an attack roll!

In fact, I've seen the Boots of Speed cause non-fighters to attack only once every other round (I play with attack rolls visible in the dialog box, so I know the character isn't just missing). I'm not sure why exactly it does so, but it appears to weaken characters with 1 APR.

Tresset

@semiticgod Do you play in the vanilla games or something? You keep bringing up those boots and their oddities, but I know that they are fixed.

semiticgoddess

@Tresset: Yeah. I don't have EE. I think both games are relevant, since both are being played.

Heindrich

@semiticgod I deleted your accidental double post.

Of course both vanilla and EE are relevant, all my initial questions on this forum concerned the vanilla games. That said, this is the EE forum, so EE is likely being played more by users, and is hence more relevant.

Your insight and advice is still very much welcome, and mostly applies to both versions of the game, but a quick caveat might be suitable on occasion. Something like:

"Unless this has been changed in the Enhanced Edition..."

Edit:

As an example, I got horribly confused trying to figure out the rules for BG2 strongholds and dual-classing because there was conflicting information from a lot of user comments and the devs. It turned out that a lot of people were answering the questions based on what they knew from BG2 vanilla.

semiticgoddess

@Heindrich: Thanks. In the future I'll mention I'm using vanilla if I'm pointing out a possible error or oddity in the game system, for the sake of clarity.

EDIT: Removed a silly sentence from this post.

Flashburn

semiticgod said:

The Boots of Speed can also prevent backstabs from happening at all, at least if your APR is 1. You turn visible before you even make an attack roll!

In fact, I've seen the Boots of Speed cause non-fighters to attack only once every other round (I play with attack rolls visible in the dialog box, so I know the character isn't just missing). I'm not sure why exactly it does so, but it appears to weaken characters with 1 APR.

If I remember right, back in unpatched BG2, the Boots of Speed actually gave the Haste effect instead of just a movement speed increase. Could be wrong though.

Tresset

@Flashburn That may be it... I do not remember exactly how I reinstalled vBG2 after my old computer blew up. Could be that I forgot to apply the official patch. Anyway, when I look at the boots in NI they have a rather unusual haste effect called "movement speed only". That type of haste should never be used IMO, because the alternatives work much smoother... (unfortunately it is currently used by the salamander form of the avenger druid)

semiticgoddess

In vanilla, the Boots of Speed increase regeneration. Does EE fix that?

Tresset

@semiticgod Well, yes and no... Being hasted still increases the rate of poison and regeneration, but the Boots of Speed no longer haste you so they do not increase the regeneration or poison rate.