Wow, summoning exploit still has not been fixed. A question to the developers.
You can summon a whole army using simulacrum and project image. It's always been the biggest exploit in BG2 because you can bypass the summoning cap of 1 for celestial and 5 total for the party.
I remember summoning 20 planetars and dog-piling on Demogorgon back in the day. I left the monitor unpaused and the poor demon prince was still swimming in waves of red planetars when I came back from the kitchen.
I expected this to be closed by BG2EE, since it's a well known exploit with improved invisibility + spell immunity cheese. Unfortunately it's still there. I think II+SI cheese is still there, too. (this allows a mage to finish the game without ever getting attacked. SI against abjuration/divination prevents dispel and true seeing while improved invisibility blocks breach attempt; as long as you cast defensive spells your mage is invincible and won't take 1hp loss throughout the entire game because the enemies have no means of removing your defensive spells.)
Since BG2EE won't be getting updates soon, I would like to hear from developers the intended behavior so that I could restrict myself adhering to that behavior and I don't think you wanted players to summon 30 army that can hack most enemy bosses in few seconds.
Is the summoning cap to be any larger if you use clones, or is it still intended to be 5 no matter what? If the former, what's the intended limit on summoning cap if you use clones? For now I'm going to stick to the party limitation of 5 because clones shouldn't up the cap if your companions can't increase the cap.
I remember summoning 20 planetars and dog-piling on Demogorgon back in the day. I left the monitor unpaused and the poor demon prince was still swimming in waves of red planetars when I came back from the kitchen.
I expected this to be closed by BG2EE, since it's a well known exploit with improved invisibility + spell immunity cheese. Unfortunately it's still there. I think II+SI cheese is still there, too. (this allows a mage to finish the game without ever getting attacked. SI against abjuration/divination prevents dispel and true seeing while improved invisibility blocks breach attempt; as long as you cast defensive spells your mage is invincible and won't take 1hp loss throughout the entire game because the enemies have no means of removing your defensive spells.)
Since BG2EE won't be getting updates soon, I would like to hear from developers the intended behavior so that I could restrict myself adhering to that behavior and I don't think you wanted players to summon 30 army that can hack most enemy bosses in few seconds.
Is the summoning cap to be any larger if you use clones, or is it still intended to be 5 no matter what? If the former, what's the intended limit on summoning cap if you use clones? For now I'm going to stick to the party limitation of 5 because clones shouldn't up the cap if your companions can't increase the cap.
Post edited by IntoTheDarkness on
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Comments
I do agree that the 5 critter summoning limit shouldn't apply to a party of 6, but I see no reason to get rid of the Project Image summoning exploit. If you want to summon fewer than 20 Planetars, then don't cast the spell 20 times.
going from the code and the sumlimit 2da I'm guessing that those summoners aren't concidered party members properly, so it should be closed.
As a mage you have multiple defensive spells that makes you invincible for a duration. You can't be dispelled if you have SI against abjuration, you can't be revealed if you have SI against divination, and you can't be breached if you have improved invisibility. All you have to do is use defensive spells when their time runs out. It's a cheese I'm well accustomed with because in my 2nd play through of BG2 I took solo sorcerer and beat the game in core without ever taking 1hp loss in battles.
If the former, I have no idea why people want to prevent devs from closing exploits. Might as well use the EE keeper and make their characters invincible if they want to use cheese tactics.
Of course I can restrict myself from using those tactics, but sometimes the boundary between cheese and tactics can be blurry. I need devs to close what's considered exploits to clearly know what's allowed and what's not allowed, like in this case with summoning caps.
BTW thanks for the confirmation. I will not summon more than 5 total even with clones.
http://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/21350/keeping-items-at-start-in-bg2-ee-like-it-was-in-bg1/p1
Your first line seems dismissive and I'm unsure why. Just because "a lot of things negate the requirement for real tactics", we can still raise bugbears individually.
Whilst I like the attempt at a work around I definitely think a summoning cap implemented on summons (to avoid this summoning cheese) would be preferrable (to me at least). One of the cheesiest tactics in the game is exploiting silmacuralum & mislead with multiple improved bard songs... it always bothers me that this stuff is still allowed by the game as I'm pretty sure it wasn't intended.
There is no 'allowed' versus 'not allowed'. The game engine is not perfect, and limitations are not perfect. It might be fixable, but, if not, it sort of is what it is.