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Mod. Review: Dark Side of the Sword Coast N.P.C.s!

WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 921
edited June 2015 in General Modding
*This is a light yet critical review the Dark Side of the Sword Coast Non-Player Characters.*

Evaluation Criteria:
Character Ability Balance: Compares Ability Scores to other 'role-similar' original Non-Player Characters.
Non-Player Character Analog: Evaluates Non-Player Character 'roll-ecosystem' within the Original Baldur's Gate.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ROUND ONE: BARDO

image
Bardo:
Gender: Male
Race: Halfling
Alignment: Neutral Good
Class: Thief
Strength: 12
Dexterity: 19
Constitution: 13
Intellect: 11
Wisdom: 11
Charisma: 17
[Ability Roll: 83, High]

Character Ability Balance: Very Good. I see no 'Mary-Sue' characteristics within Bardo's Ability Scores. Although his starting equipment is dreadfully over powered and dare I say 'uninspired'.

Non-Player Character Analog: Alora, Coran, Imoen, Safana and Skie (Unlisted: Evil Thieves).
Alora (the Good Halfling Thief) is arguably the most similar Non-Player Character when compared to Bardo.

image
Alora:
Strength: 8 (-4)
Dexterity: 19 (+/-0)
Constitution: 12 (-1)
Intellect: 14
Wisdom: 7
Charisma: 10
[Ability Roll: 70, Very Low*]
*Although She has arguably the best thieving abilities 'in town' based on her Lucky Rabbit's Foot. She also gains +2 Luck as well as more survivablility (Lucky Rabbit's Foot Details: http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Alora )
So with her better arguably thieving abilities and survivablility with albeit slightly less combat effectiveness than Bardo; I would call it a 'fair balance'. Although Alora is available 'dead last' in the game and has 'wonkily' spent thieving abilities.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bardo Quality Verdict: Pass - He needs less over powered starting gear though.

What do you fair souls judge of my Non-Player Character(s) review, thus far? All constructive feedback is welcome.

Post edited by WithinAmnesia on
BlackravenTuthJuliusBorisovMusignybooinyoureyesswit
«13

Comments

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,808

    He needs less Over Powered starting gear though.

    This is actually the most imprortant note that should be made regarding most mod NPCs, for example, those in the Dark Horizons Mod.

    I appreciate this thread, carry on, @WithinAmnesia !

    MusignyWithinAmnesiaswit
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,018
    Congratulations to @CoM_Solaufein (and perhaps others) who made this very old mod available for EE.
    As regards the overpowered aspects, please keep in mind that it was written for the original game, the "balance" was substantially different. A different kind of overpower.
    Probably the first mod I tried, long long ago. :smiley:

    JuliusBorisovelminsterWithinAmnesia
  • brunardobrunardo Member Posts: 514
    nice, looking forward to trying this one out

  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 921
    edited June 2015
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ROUND TWO: BUB SNIKT

    image
    Bub Snikt:
    Gender: Male
    Race: Human
    Alignment: Neutral Good
    Class: Ranger/Stalker (I thought that all human stalkers were a bit perverted :-P *silly*).
    Ability Scores:
    Strength: 18/40
    Dexterity: 16
    Constitution: 17
    Intellect: 10
    Wisdom: 16
    Charisma: 10
    [Ability Roll: 87, Very High]

    Character Ability Balance: I think that Bub Snikt's Ability Scores look like a Nerfed power gamer's ranger. I much prefer Bub's old 'Original' / 'Vanilla' Ability Scores of: (Solution)
    [Spoiler] Strength: 17 (+2*)
    Dexterity: 16 (+2*)
    Constitution: 14 (+2*)
    Intellect: 10
    Wisdom: 11
    Charisma: 13
    [Ability Roll: 81, High]
    Although I do feel that he would be under powered with this configuration.. *Although my version of Bub Snikt can Once per day Draw Upon Holy Might as a Special Innate Ability due to him gaining 'super natural strength' when defending his home from 'giants' and striking them dead- this is taken from his 'Original' Biography. *Draw Upon Holy Might would raise Bub Snikt's Strength, Dexterity and Constitution by 1 per every three levels of the Caster
    ( http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Draw_Upon_Holy_Might ), *although Bub starts at Level 6 and thus it would be an Ability Bonus of at least +2.

    ^The above 'Original' Ability Scores are from when Bub Snikt is an unaltered Pure Fighter within Baldur's Gate: Tales of the Sword Coast and not a Stalker Ranger Class Kit from within the newer released version: Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition - Dark Side of the Sword Coast . Although I like Bub as a Fighter or a pure ranger (in my opinion his chosen kit is a bit weird for him, I would rather have him with his own custom kit that included the use of heavy armours to reflect his 'fighter origins'. Or maybe he should become a kitted fighter instead of a pure fighter? Perhaps a Berserker Fighter Kit would be fitting for Bub Snikt -biography and all- although I would change his Ability Scores to be based on his Original Values and I would add a Once per day Draw Upon Holy Might Special Innate Ability (to make him viable and more importantly to reflect his character lore to make Bub's character more unique).

    ~Extra: Bub Snikt could still use Composite Long Bows even with failing their 18 Strength Requirement with 17 Strength for he could use his Once per day Draw Upon Holy Might Special Innate Ability (thus raising his strength to 19+, which exceeds the 18 Strength required for the use of a 'common' Composite Long Bow) and Equip a Composite Long Bow and then still be able to use the bow after his temporary Strength bonus wears off (I tested it, and it works).[/Spoiler] Moving On: Bub Snikt currently has a MASSIVELY Terrible case of Over Powered Starting Equipment; in his case it is with him having Completely Magical Starting Equipment. He has the following in his 'Enhanced Edition': Studded Leather Armour +1, Bastard Sword +1, Composite Longbow +1, Arrows +1, Arrows of Bitting. He also has some potions, healing potion(s) and Antidote(s).

    Non-Player Character Analog:
    -'Warrior' Recruitable Non-Player Characters: Ajantis, Coran, Khalid, Kivan, Minsc, Yeslick and Jaheira (Unlisted: Evil 'Warriors').
    Bub-Snikt is mostly like Minsc (Neutral Good Human Male Ranger) and more arguably akin to Kivan (Chaotic Good Elf Male Ranger) in terms of analog Original Baldur's Gate Recruitable Non-Player Characters.
    image
    Minsc's Ability Scores:
    Strength: 18/93* (+53 'Bonus Strength')
    Dexterity: 15 (-1)
    Constitution: 15 (-2)
    Intellect: 8 (-2)
    Wisdom: 6 (-10 Although Minsc does not need a high Wisdom for he refer's to the All Mighty Boo's Wise Judgement)
    Charisma: 9 (-1)
    [Ability Roll: 71 (-16), Very Low**]
    (**Although Efficiently Allocated With *A Very High Strength Roll)
    -Yeah things are not looking so good for the 'Enhanced' Bub Snikt.. Perhaps he will fare better when compared to Kivan?

    image
    Kivan's Ability Scores:
    Strength: 18/12 (-28 'Bonus Strength')
    Dexterity: 17 (+1)
    Constitution: 14 (-3)
    Intellect: 10 (+/- 0)
    Wisdom: 14 (-2)
    Charisma: 8 (-2)
    [Ability Roll: 81 (-6), High]
    -I am afraid that it looks like poor old Bub Snikt Failed at his Critical Non-Player Character Quality Review. :(
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Bub Snikt Quality Verdict: FAIL! -He needs more comparative consideration given to his Ability Scores and MUCH Less Over Powered starting equipment. Also I would prefer if his class did not change and remained a Fighter (as he originally was) and became either a Berserker Fighter Kit or have his own Custom Fighter Kit made for him. I would personally like him to suit his ('original') biography and gain the Innate Ability to once per day Draw Upon Holy Might; although your opinion may differ..

    Rare Ladies And Fine 'Gentle-Nerds', How Was The Second Round Of The Dark Side Of The Sword Coast Recruitable Non-Player Character Critical Review? Constructive Feedback Is Welcome.:smiley:

    Post edited by WithinAmnesia on
    JuliusBorisovbooinyoureyesTuthswit
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,808
    I really don't think that a stalker with Strength: 18/40, Dexterity: 16 and Constitution: 17 is too OP, even for BG1. I like kits and tend to find a kitted character more appealing than a non-kitted one (if no dual/multiclassing is involved). ;) especially a stalker;)

    WithinAmnesia
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 921
    edited June 2015
    bengoshi said:

    I really don't think that a stalker with Strength: 18/40, Dexterity: 16 and Constitution: 17 is too OP, even for BG1. I like kits and tend to find a kitted character more appealing than a non-kitted one (if no dual/multiclassing is involved). ;) especially a stalker;)

    Yes, @bengoshi Bub Snikt is not too over powered when fighting 'monsters'. Although why would the player pick Kivan or Minsc when Bub Snikt has no major draw backs to him? I am not basing my judgement on what could and could not work within combat and the encounters that one faces within the Original Baldur's Gate but rather I base the Critical Character Review upon the other Recruitable Non-Player Characters that can face the same things as said reviewed Non-Player Characters.

    Yes If Bub-Snikt was one of the only Recruitable Non-Player Character in Baldur's Gate it would not be over powered. Although he must be compared to the other official 'analog' Recruitable Non-Player Characters in respect of the player's deep companion options. I feel strongly that bringing new Recruitable Characters with Abilities Scores that are superior to the official Recruitable Non-Player Characters is just.. *pause* 'unclassy'.

    I have no problems with Bub being a stalker per se, but I do have a problem with his (albeit slightly) Over Powered Ability Scores and starting equipment.

    @bengoshi I am not being critical to put a thorn in my side nor the of community's side but rather to show the faults and weakness (if any arise) from player created content. I want the Dark Side of the Sword Coast to be a great modification where it fits perfectly with the original game and not 'good enough'; I want it to be more enjoyably for myself and more so for the community of Baldur's Gate fans. Although it is not my content and I cannot change it without the support of the creators. I am not trying to 'hack and slash' this great modification in question, no and this is not my intention. I have a tremendous drive inside myself to improve the things that I love and I love the Dark Side of the Sword Coast and what it brings to the Original Baldur's Gate in general. Although I also have a discerning eye that spots issues and things that need to be improved. My hope is that with these Critical Recruitable Non-Player Characters Reviews that some type of improvement can (hopefully) be spawned from them. Although thank you @bengoshi for your feed back I greatly appreciate your opinion and I hope the best of luck for you and your future, friend. :smile:

    Oops I forgot my point about your liking of Kitted Characters :-P. I agree that the Original Baldur's Gate should have more of them but I can only really see this happening with the introduction of new characters and not changing the old ones (not that you said 'Kit the old characters' :wink:). What I want with Bub Snikt (good luck with that I know :S) is for him to be a Kitted Character but one that is some type of 'Warrior Class' that can use heavy armours and for him to have a once per day Draw Upon Holy Might as a Special Innate Ability. I want this because I see an opportunity to improve his character's uniqueness and chiefly to give definition to his 'original' biography.

    Post edited by WithinAmnesia on
    JuliusBorisovswit
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 921
    edited June 2015
    Updated: My expectations of this thread have been exceeded by the popular demand of more professional reviews; so here they are:
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ROUND THREE: CONCHOBHAIR STRONGBLADE

    image
    Conchobhair Strongblade:
    Gender: Male
    Race: Human
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    Class: Cavalier
    Strength: 18/35
    Dexterity: 14
    Constitution: 15
    Intelligence: 10
    Wisdom: 14
    Charisma: 16 (+1*)
    [Ability Roll: 87 (+1*), Very High]
    *Charisma bonus granted by his helm of glory inspired helmet.

    Character Ability Balance: Con-ch-o-bear(?) looks to have well rounded and well balanced Abilities Scores that make him competitive yet not more powerful than Ajantis Ilvarstarr (the original game's true-class Paladin and arguably the strongest analog to Conchobhair, anyway more on him below). Although Conchobhair's Personal Items need to have their power reevaluated for they are (in my humble opinion) grossly over powered for the Original Baldur's Gate.
    [Spoiler]Unprofessional Response (I think that it is stronger of character to show one's errors rather than hide from the them):
    I do not see a power gaming Ability Score mess (like some N.P.C.s). Although his 'Personal Gear' is a joke, a really bad joke and it is why I do these reviews.
    -Crappy Platemail +3 clone with a crappy name (check)
    -Uninspired Helm of Glory clone with a missing depiction (check)
    -A Magical Two-Handed Sword +2 that has a very crap Statistic Section (check),
    also and dare I say a lazy description stating that its history is 'cloaked by a shielding spell'.. I think it is more like this 'item was created by someone who had little inspiration and hacked an existing item and threw some powerful abilities on it and called it ready for launch'.. *Shakes Head*.. These are the types of things that give community mods a bad name in quality standards and spawn (hilarious) parody videos online.. Oh and he has a 'Y.O.L.O.' Composite Long Bow +1.. Pathetic is what I think of the gearing choices.. Also all of his 'new items' reuse old B.A.M.s.. Stupid, just Stupid. Although I love the character and quest concept; in my humble opinion a proper Dragon was 'needed' in the original Baldur's Gate! :)[/Spoiler]
    Non-Player Character Analog:
    -'Warrior' Recruitable Non-Player Characters: Ajantis, Coran, Khalid, Kivan, Minsc, Yeslick and Jaheira (Unlisted: Evil 'Warriors').
    Conchobhair Strongblade is arguably most like the other recruitable Paladin in the Original Baldur's Gate: Ajantis Ilvarstarr.
    image
    Ajantis' Ability Scores
    Gender: Male
    Race: Human
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    Class: Paladin
    Strength: 17 (-1) [-2 Damage Adjustment, -50 lbs. Carry Weight]
    Dexterity: 13 (-1) [No Combat Difference]
    Constitution: 16 (+1) [+1 Hit Points Per Level Bonus]
    Intelligence: 12 (+2) [No Lore Difference]
    Wisdom: 13 (-1) [Paladin's in Baldur's Gate get no Bonus Priest Spells, according to @AstroBryGuy ]
    Charisma: 17 (+1) [10% Store Discount vs. 5% Store Discount with 16 Base Charisma]
    [Ability Roll: 88 (+1) Very High]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Conchobhair Strongblade Quality Verdict: Weak Pass -His Starting Equipment is in need of a complete power reevaluation. Although I like his Dragon Quest and I am a fan of his competitive yet immersive Ability Score balance. The only thing holding him back from becoming a great Recruitable Non-Player Character option is that his Personal Items are in need of an a near complete overhaul.

    I Would Love Any Constructive Feedback Upon My Updated N.P.C. Review Of Conchobhair Strongblade. :smiley:

    Post edited by WithinAmnesia on
    booinyoureyesJuliusBorisovTuthswit
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    edited June 2015
    Did you guys know that Bub Snikt is a reference to Wolverine from Marvel comics?

    "Bub" is what he calls people, and if you put "Snikt" into Google translate Onomatopoeia-->English it means "sounds made when Wolverine retracts his claws".

    I think it would have been great to make him with 25 constitution to imitate his healing powers, and perhaps lower his strength a wee bit.

  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 921
    edited June 2015

    Did you guys know that Bub Snikt is a reference to Wolverine from Marvel comics?

    "Bub" is what he calls people, and if you put "Snikt" into Google translate Onomatopoeia-->English it means "sounds made when Wolverine retracts his claws".

    I think it would have been great to make him with 25 constitution to imitate his healing powers, and perhaps lower his strength a wee bit.

    @booinyoureyes

    *Sigh* :/ Yeah I did all too well.. Okay well let us make the best of it then for Bub Snikt. Wolverine can regenerate his health so I would say 20 Constitution for Bub Snikt. Wolverine is Canadian so make him have a thick Canadian accent and make him crack Canadian jokes and he talks about pancakes and bacon, additional make him sometimes say Canadian words. Bub should also once per day summon a moose or NO! A Spirit Bear! (perfect). Also he is three '* Points' proficient with Two-handed Axes and as a 50% cold resistance for 'hardy' reasoning. In his portrait He needs to be wearing a red plaid shirt under his armour. His major clothing colours should be red major and white (grey) minor. Also he needs a chain mail Toque and have 'bladed boots' as some of his personal items. He needs to tell stories of how amazing "Hawk Eye" is and how how his family is the best a "Hawk Eyeing" (Shooting Hawks) and how they are regarded as some of the greatest snipers in their neck of the woods..

    I actually like this idea now..

    Post edited by WithinAmnesia on
    booinyoureyes
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 921
    edited June 2015
    Updated: My expectations of this thread have been exceeded by the popular demand of more professional reviews; so here they are:
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ROUND FOUR: CúChoinneach

    image
    CúChoinneach:
    Gender: Male
    Race: Elf
    Alignment: Neutral Good
    Class: Ranger (Ex-Ranger / Cleric).
    Ability Scores:
    Strength: 17
    Dexterity: 19
    Constitution: 16
    Intellect: 11
    Wisdom: 16
    Charisma: 8
    [Ability Roll: 87, Very High]

    Character Ability Balance: Critical Note - He is two points* away from a power gamer's ranger. One point to Strength, one point to Constitution (Elf). Although I like his Statue with a Summonable Shadow Wolf! (Albeit it is a copy of the Moon Dog Figurine from Baldur's Gate II as * @AstroBryGuy points out below).[Spoiler]Unprofessional Gif Response:image[/Spoiler]
    Non-Player Character Analog:
    -'Warrior' Recruitable Non-Player Characters: Ajantis, Coran, Khalid, Kivan, Minsc, Yeslick and Jaheira (Unlisted: Evil 'Warriors').
    Choo, Coo-Chion, CooChoyneach?.. I am not very good at pronouncing his name.. 'Dave' currently blows Minsc (A Fellow Ranger) out of the water like a battle ship firing at a dingy and obliterates poor Kivan (the original Chaotic Good Male Elf Ranger) in terms of character power; I find his current Ability Scores to be very immersion breaking :/. I love the Idea of a dark mysterious Ranger/Cleric of a moon godess as a recritable character bent on revenge, but it Irks me so that he has completely magical starting equipment, it is things like these that make me want to not play the Dark Side of the Sword Coast for it breaks the original immersion with introducing power creep and making the original N.P.C.s obsolete in terms of character power. Although I am a fan of his "Wolf Summon Gem". It is very unique for the Original Baldur's Gate (*cough* Drizzt's Black Panther rip off *cough cough* :-P *well humored poke*) although I think that it should only be usable by CúChoinneach (for it looks a bit weird if you can recruit him, dump him and steal his companion:S). Also I would like his cool albeit currently Over Powered Starting Items to be toned down, if not perhaps have some if not most of his magical starting equipment become at least truly hard fought epic rewards for -Extremely Difficult- quests.

    image
    Kivan's Ability Scores:
    Strength: 18/12 (+1)
    Dexterity: 17 (-2)
    Constitution: 14 (-2)
    Intellect: 10 (-1)
    Wisdom: 14 (-2)
    Charisma: 8 (+/- 0)
    [Ability Roll: 81 (-6), High]
    -What a great potential opportunity to create a better Recruitable Non-Player Character by improving the Ability Scores of CúChoinneach in terms of immersion.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    CúChoinneach Quality Verdict:
    I think that CúChoinneach needs more development with his character's power balance and more time put into finding a 'roll niche' and some more development passion to find a character power balance in consideration with preexisting Recruitable Non-Player Characters. CúChoinneach also 'needs' to find a solution to implement his interesting personal gear that is immersive and engaging.

    [Spoiler]Unprofessional Response (I think that it is stronger of character to show one's errors rather than hide from the them): CúChoinneach Quality Verdict:
    image
    image
    *Grabs Sledgehammer* "I am cutting that internet down." (No one got the reference I suppose..)[/Spoiler]
    How is my updated N.P.C. review?

    Post edited by WithinAmnesia on
    TuthJuliusBorisovswit
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,414
    edited June 2015

    Conchobhair Strongblade:
    ...
    Wisdom: 14

    ...

    Ajantis' Ability Scores
    ...
    Wisdom: 13 (-1) [+/- 1 Extra 1st Level Priest Spell Bonus]

    FYI, Paladins and Rangers don't get Wisdom bonus spells in BG/BG2. So the differing Wisdom scores have no effect between Conchobhair and Ajantis.

    A power gamer's ranger.. Although I like his Statue with a Summonable Shadow Wolf! ('bonus points' to whoever got that to work :smiley:).

    Sounds similar to the Moon Dog Figurine reward for the Ranger Stronghold quest in BG2.

    http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Moon_Dog_Figurine

    WithinAmnesiaJuliusBorisovswit
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 921
    edited June 2015
    Updated: My expectations of this thread have been exceeded by the popular demand of more professional reviews; so here they are:
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ROUND FIVE: FERTHGIL TROLLSLAYER

    image
    Ferthgil Trollslayer:
    Gender: Male
    Race: Dwarf
    Alignment: Chaotic Good
    Class: Berzerker
    Strength: 18/72
    Dexterity: 17
    Constitution: 19 (+2*)
    Intelligence: 7
    Wisdom: 12
    Charisma: 5
    [Ability Roll: 78 (+2*), Above Average / High*]
    *Over Powered Diablo I Field Plate..

    Character Ability Balance: I am disappointed with the developers of Dark Side of the Sword Coast. This character has potential yet has taken a 'U turn' from the immersive direction of original Recruitable Non-Player Characters created by the Bioware developers.

    Non-Player Character Analog:
    -'Warrior' Recruitable Non-Player Characters: Ajantis, Coran, Khalid, Kivan, Minsc, Yeslick and Jaheira (Unlisted: Evil 'Warriors').
    Ferthgil Trollslayer is in my opinion an 'under developed character'. Ferthgil has beyond perfect Fighter Ability Scores for his race (Dwarf), and I see this as immersion breaking (as @Tuth has mentions below) and should be fixed.
    To further my point, here is Khalid.
    image
    Khalid's Ability Scores
    Gender: Male
    Race: Half-Elf
    Alignment: Neutral Good
    Class: Fighter
    Strength: 15 (-3)
    Dexterity: 16 (-1)
    Constitution: 17 (-2, -4) (For arguably the best 'orthodox' good aligned tank this is in the realm of being a.. 'Mary Sue').
    Intelligence: 12 (+5)
    Wisdom: 10 (-2)
    Charisma: 9 (+4)
    [Ability Roll: 79 (+1), Above Average]
    -This is.. Below the potential of the community developers.

    For fun lets us look at the other 'unorthodox' good aligned tank, the mighty Arkanis!
    image
    Arkanis' Ability Scores:
    Gender: Male
    Race: Dwarf
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    Class: Fighter
    Strength: 18/53 (-19 'Bonus Strength')
    Dexterity: 12 (-5)
    Constitution: 19 (+/- 0, -2*)
    Intelligence: 15 (+8)
    Wisdom: 11 (-1)
    Charisma: 8 (+3)
    [Ability Roll: 83 (+5), High]
    *Critical Note: The hardiest 'unorthodox' good aligned tank's Constitution is still beaten by Ferthgil Trollslayer..

    Ferthgil Trollslayer has much potential being a character with Dwarven smithed armour, Battle Axe and Hammer. Although I see his equipment as a weak point for it (for me anyway) looked out of place and a bit under developed in terms of quality control. I plan to write up a solutions thread or post or just add onto these reviews but for now I will just point out what should change and or be improved.
    [Spoiler]Unprofessional Response (I think that it is stronger of character to show one's errors rather than hide from the them): WHO WAS SO STUPID AS TO THINK THAT FERTHGIL 'TROLOLO' HAD A GOOD CHARACTER DESIGN!?!).
    image
    -Weakness of mind is all I can say about the.. 'Untalented Person' whom farted out Ferthgil Troll.. *pause* Trollslayer.[/Spoiler]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Ferthgil Trollslayer Quality Verdict: Strong Fail.
    He needs a lot more work. I would love to rework his equipment and improve his character design rather than just complain about them. Although for now I will get the rest of the new Dark Side of the Sword Coast Recruitable Non-player Characters reviewed.

    [Spoiler]Unprofessional Response (I think that it is stronger of character to show one's errors rather than hide from the them):Ferthgil Trollslayer Quality Verdict: Super Fail!!! The very definition of over powered Recruitable Non-Player Character has Ferthgil Trollslayer as one example. His personal items are.. So bad that they are not worth my time.

    I don't care what people think about Ferthgil Trololo, his voice acting sounds like sh*t and his character implementation smells to the high heavens of sh*t.. He is just a sh*t character in general and I think that he needs a complete remake. Although Isandir's portrait work is admirable.[/Spoiler]
    Do You Approve Of The Updated Version Of The Non-Player Character Review Of Ferthgil Trollslayer?

    Post edited by WithinAmnesia on
    TuthJuliusBorisovswit
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 921
    edited June 2015
    Updated: My expectations of this thread have been exceeded by the popular demand of more professional reviews; so here they are:
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ROUND SIX: JENNA
    image
    Jenna:
    Gender: Female
    Race: Human
    Alignment: Neutral Evil
    Class: Shadowdancer
    Strength: 12
    Dexterity: 18
    Constitution: 15
    Intellect: 14
    Wisdom: 11
    Charisma: 10
    [Ability Roll: 80, High]

    Character Ability Balance: Like Bardo, Jenna's Character Power Balance Is Very Good :smile:. I again see no 'Mary-Sue' characteristics within Jenna's Ability Scores. Although unfortunately her starting gear is the same dubious 'community content' with it being very much overpowered for the Original Baldur's Gate. Most of the new Recruitable Non-Player Characters offered within the Dark Side of the Sword Coast suffer from the same gearing immersion problems a Jenna, too powerful and too soon.

    Non-Player Character Analog: Safana, Skie, Montaron and Tiax (Unlisted: Good Thieves).
    Skie Silvershield is arguably the most similar Recruitable Non-Player Character when compared to Jenna. This is also magnified from Skie being coupled with Eldoth, this is similar to how Jenna is a partner to Morik.

    image
    Skie:
    Strength: 11 (-1)
    Dexterity: 18 (+/-0)
    Constitution: 15* (+/-0)
    Intellect: 15 (+1)
    Wisdom: 8 (-3)
    Charisma: 13* (+3)
    [Ability Roll: 80 (+/- 0), High]
    *I would like Jenna to lose one point in Constitution (out of competitive fairness to Skie) and have the 'nerfed Constitution point' be reallocated into her Charisma; for her portrait created by Isandir is rather charming and I think that 10 Charisma is a bit uncharacteristic for Jenna. :smile: Also I support this change due to Skie being relatively less convenient to recruit than Jenna. This is because Eldoth (found in Cloakwood) is needed to be transported to the City of Baldur's Gate in order to recruit Skie where as Jenna and Morik are in the same room..

    I am a fan of the idea of introducing high quality Recruitable Non-Player Characters that have Kits. I also like the fact that Jenna fills the 'gap' or 'niche' of becoming the Only Evil 'Pure-Thief' within the Original Baldur's Gate.

    So as it stands I would call it an 'a slightly unfair balance'. Although with my suggestion of toning down her starting equipment and also reallocating one point of her Constitution into her Charisma, after that being done I would call it a 'fair balance'.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Jenna Quality Verdict: Weak Pass - She Needs To Lose Her completely magical starting equipment and I would heavily prefer it that her Ability Scores be slightly altered (please see above) to make her have better immersion within the Original Baldur's Gate and its finely balanced 'power competitiveness' within its recruitable character cast.

    How Do You Fair Souls Judge My Updated Non-Player Character Reviews, Thus Far? I Welcome All Constructive Feedback!

    Post edited by WithinAmnesia on
    TuthJuliusBorisovswit
  • TuthTuth Member Posts: 233
    I remember playing DSotSC way back (at least 7-8 years ago) and I found most of the new NPCs to be overpowered to the max, it even destroyed the fact the the mod was much harder than the original. I actually liked Bub Snikt as a fighter back then. As opposed to the rest of his min-maxed pals he had rather balanced ability scores and a fairly regular equipment. He seemed lika a regular guy and not a *extraordinary hero*, like the rest.

    Ovepowered NPCs and items made me go back to the unmodded game. The ride with DSotSC was crazy, fun and I have some nice memories of it. Especially with Northern Tales of the Sword Coast, these made the game so long and tough. Though the original game is so much better in terms of being believable and balance.

    WithinAmnesiaJuliusBorisov
  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,599
    edited June 2015
    Obvious troll is obvious.

    DreadKhanAstroBryGuyMusigny
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859

    Obvious troll is obvious.

    Agreed, things have gotten progressively personal.

    When attempting to offer constructive criticism, it is key to offer some alternatives, and explain why the alternative makes sense to you. Non-critical theory based criticism is by nature an excercise in exploring personal preferences, likes and dislikes, etc. Offer some specific ideas to provide food for thought, and be cautious with humour; this is more in 'commedic roast' territory than truely constructive criticism.

    AstroBryGuyMusigny
  • Glam_VrockGlam_Vrock Member Posts: 264
    I don't think we needed all this to point out that everyone has OP starting equipment and some of the numbers are too big.

  • Glam_VrockGlam_Vrock Member Posts: 264
    edited June 2015
    That said, I don't care much about slightly inflated ability scores considering the player can legally create their own party, but you shouldn't give everyone free superloot unless you want to trivialise the game.

    WithinAmnesia
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 921
    edited June 2015
    @bengoshi @Musigny @brunardo @booinyoureyes @AstroBryGuy @Tuth @Ravensight @CoM_Solaufein @DreadKhan @Glam_Vrock

    I Have Made My Reviews More Professional Due To 'Overwhelming Demand'. What Else Could Be Improved?

    I did not expect that this thread would be so.. Well ironically 'reviewed' I suppose. I started this thread out as a personal project to keep my opinions in one place but I wanted to make them into a thread to give 'the two, maybe three people who would read them' something interesting rather than to keep it on my computer in some file. Well nail some boards to my *ss and paint them red call me a barn! I finished cleaning my house and I logged onto the forums here to find around ~5 or ~7 messages saying how sh*tty my reviews were. Well I guess you guys want better reviews eh? Well now that I understand that some of the community gives a: http://orig07.deviantart.net/5a6e/f/2015/162/7/0/the_flying______by_withinamnesia-d8wye6b.gif I will try my best. :smile:

    Post edited by WithinAmnesia on
    booinyoureyesJuliusBorisovMusignyswit
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 921
    edited June 2015
    *This is a light yet critical review the Dark Side of the Sword Coast Non-Player Characters.*

    Evaluation Criteria:
    Character Ability Balance: Compares Ability Scores to other 'role-similar' original Non-Player Characters.
    Non-Player Character Analog: Evaluates Non-Player Character 'roll-ecosystem' within the Original Baldur's Gate.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ROUND SEVEN: JET'LAYA
    image
    Jet'Laya:
    Gender: Female
    Race: Half-Elf
    Alignment: Chaotic Good
    Class: Cleric
    Ability Scores:
    Strength: 14
    Dexterity: 16
    Constitution: 16
    Intellect: 12
    Wisdom: 18
    Charisma: 11
    [Ability Roll: 87, Very High]

    Character Ability Balance: She needs some work with reevaluating her Ability Scores. I see that Jet'laya has overpowered starting gear, but I like the ideas and concepts behind her gear. Although I see them as being too powerful and too quick for the Original Baldur's Gate; I feel that they break immersion.

    Non-Player Character Analog: Yeslick, Branwen, Jaheira, Faldorn, and Quayle (Unlisted: Evil Priests).
    Branwen (the True Neutral Cleric) is arguably the most similar Non-Player Character when compared to Jet'Laya.

    image
    Branwen:
    Gender: Female
    Race: Human
    Alignment: True Neutral
    Class: Cleric
    Ability Scores:
    Strength: 13 (-1)
    Dexterity: 16 (+/-0)
    Constitution: 15 (-1)
    Intellect: 9 (-3)
    Wisdom: 16 (-2)
    Charisma: 13 (+2)
    [Ability Roll: 82 (-5), High]
    There is little to no good reason for a 'neutral' or a 'good' party to recruit Branwen if (the current build of) Jet'Laya is introduced into the Original Baldur's Gate. Branwen is much weaker than Jet'Laya to the point where all that poor Branwen has left is her special Spiritual Hammer innate ability (a second level Priest Spell). Which is a moot point for arguably the War Hammer +2, Ashideena is superior to the spell and makes it obsolete (although that is if you give Branwen the War Hammer in the first place ',:/).

    Okay there is one more Original albeit 'unorthodox' Cleric for an analog to Jet'laya. Behold!:

    image
    Canderous:
    Gender: Male
    Race: Human
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    Class: Cleric
    Ability Scores:
    Strength: 16 (+2)
    Dexterity: 13 (-3)
    Constitution: 13 (-3)
    Intellect: 12 (+3)
    Wisdom: 18 (+/- 0)
    Charisma: 14 (+1)
    [Ability Roll: 86 (-1), Very High]
    -Special Innate Ability: Lay on Hands

    Well it seems that even with Canderous and his 18 Wisdom, (the 'current build' of) Jet'Laya renders Canderous under powered even considering his Lay on Hands and his +2 Strength Bonus. This is because losing 6 points to 'Combat Ability Scores' is sensibly not worth gaining two points into Strength and a Lay on Hands when considering who is more competitive. I think that she needs her Ability Scores, well to be blunt -nerfed- to improve her immersion factor along side her Original Baldur's Gate colleagues. Perhaps do this with her Ability Scores(?):
    Strength: 14 (Fine)
    Dexterity: 15 (-1) ('Nerfed' for Competitiveness - 'Rivals' Branwen's 16 Dexterity and 15 Constitution)
    Constitution: 16 (Fine)
    Intellect: 12 (Fine)
    Wisdom: 17 (-1) ('Nerfed' So that Branwen regains a niche: Less H.P. and Casting, more A.C. and hitting, more hammer time!)
    Charisma: 14 (+2) (Better reflects her Charming Voice Acting)
    [Ability Roll: 87, Very High]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Jet'Laya Quality Verdict: Medium Fail. This is quite an unfortunate thing for I really like her character design and the concept work behind her. I love her related side quest; I think that it fits perfectly within the Original Baldur's Gate :smile:. Although I feel that she could really become a great (and maybe even a favourite) Recruitable Non-Player Character if her starting equipment could be reworked (Hint: I would love to help and 'forge' some unique B.A.M. Files) and also to have her Ability Scores adjusted to 'level the playing field' for the available recruitable Cleric characters within the Original Baldur's Gate. Also since it is frowned upon (and further more legally challenging) to give Class Kits to the Original True Class Non-Player Characters of the Original Baldur's Gate. Yet with the addition of the 'newly available' Class Kits within the Enhanced Edition, why not take this unique opportunity to add a recruitable character with with a Class Kit? I recommend a Priest of Lathander for her, it seems rather suiting for Jet'Laya. For Priests of Lathander like to stomp Undead, Hard - akin to Jet'Laya. :wink:

    What do you fair souls judge of my Non-Player Character(s) reviews, thus far? All constructive feedback is welcome.

    Post edited by WithinAmnesia on
    JuliusBorisovTuth
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 921
    edited June 2015

    Obvious troll is obvious.

    So best regards to your content, say after my 'change of direction' (improved professionalism) what do you think of my updated reviews? Also in your eyes where could they improve? (I did not expect them to see too many views so I was not as serious with them, although that changed once more of the community got involved. :sweat_smile:)

    Post edited by WithinAmnesia on
    MusignyBlackravenswitTuth
  • MusignyMusigny Member Posts: 1,018
    Even if it is negative, a respectful review is always nicer to read.

    BlackravenRavenslightWithinAmnesiaJuliusBorisov
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 19,808

    Obvious troll is obvious.

    Let's not go this route, please.

    WithinAmnesia
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 921
    edited June 2015
    bengoshi said:

    Obvious troll is obvious.

    Let's not go this route, please.
    Yes I Agree.*

    *Because I wish that I could give you multi-'Agrees' with your post. *Bows*

    (Also Thank You for the Promote Bengoshi, ( http://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/39616/tell-your-forum-story/p5 )
    -I was honestly bewildered at first at how fast the initial 6 likes were given to my post and then I looked to see who gave them and I was like: Wait... 1,2,3,4,5,6.. wait what? 7 *squints eyes* "promote", I metaphorically cr*pped myself *I took a screenshot and saved it into my Special Baldur's File* Thank You Dearly Bengoshi, you have 'officially' made this my favourite forum experience, to date. :smile:)

    JuliusBorisovMusignyBlackraven
  • AstroBryGuyAstroBryGuy Member Posts: 3,414

    Conchobhair Strongblade:

    Character Ability Balance: Con-ch-o-bear(?)

    kru-KHOOR

    It's a gaelic version of Connor.

    CúChoinneach:
    Choo, Coo-Chion, CooChoyneach?.. I am not very good at pronouncing his name..

    ku-KYUN-nuhk

    Choinneach is a gaelic version of Kenneth. CuChoinneach would be "Hound of Kenneth".

    WithinAmnesiaBlackraven
  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 921

    Conchobhair Strongblade:

    Character Ability Balance: Con-ch-o-bear(?)

    kru-KHOOR

    It's a gaelic version of Connor.

    CúChoinneach:
    Choo, Coo-Chion, CooChoyneach?.. I am not very good at pronouncing his name..

    ku-KYUN-nuhk

    Choinneach is a gaelic version of Kenneth. CuChoinneach would be "Hound of Kenneth".
    I wish that the characters would have had funny voice acted jokes about their names.. Although they fry my brain as to how their letters form their sounds. I guess it is akin to Sean = Shawn eh?

  • WithinAmnesiaWithinAmnesia Member Posts: 921
    edited June 2015
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ROUND EIGHT: JUODA INIRSIS
    image
    Juoda Inirsis:
    Gender: Female
    Race: Half-Orc
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Juoda Inirsis Quality Verdict: She is not Implemented into the 'Enhanced Edition' of Dark Side of the Sword Coast..

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