Priest of Lathander11/Fighter 12 Screen Shot. Eat your heart out kensai! lol

Bleego

So I just got my cleric abilities back and I thought I would post this. Talk about silly. I just started chapter 3 by paying my 15K to the shadow thieves to level to fighter 12.

I just wish that I could have chosen true neutral when I rolled this toon in bgee. You can have a true neutral Cleric of Lathander in bg2ee.

I guess I'll have to do the shadow keeper thing. But that's such a PITA since I am playing on IOS.

Bleego

oddly when I am unbuffed I see APR as 7/2 but buffed it just goes to 10... I wonder why it does that.

Lord_Tansheron

@Bleego Buffed by what? Boon should add +1, IH should double it, but that should end up as 9. Are you using double Boon? They stack afaik.

Anyway, CoL->F is the one cleric I am still considering as a serious powergaming contender. I started a run with one but sadly did not get to finish it when RL came back in like a wrecking ball. Maybe in a month or two...

In theory at least it should offer everything you want from that combination, meaning all the combat buffs you can handle and some nice defensives to boot. The obvious comparison would be the trusted old Berserker->Cleric, some testing should tell how it fares.

Bleego

Lord_Tansheron said:

@Bleego Buffed by what? Boon should add +1, IH should double it, but that should end up as 9. Are you using double Boon? They stack afaik.

Anyway, CoL->F is the one cleric I am still considering as a serious powergaming contender. I started a run with one but sadly did not get to finish it when RL came back in like a wrecking ball. Maybe in a month or two...

In theory at least it should offer everything you want from that combination, meaning all the combat buffs you can handle and some nice defensives to boot. The obvious comparison would be the trusted old Berserker->Cleric, some testing should tell how it fares.

Yup I waited to dual till 11 so I could get 2 boons. And they do stack.

I'm thinking improved critical down the road will be better than zerk/cleric in the long run.

Bleego

Any idea why the slash number goes away in number of attacks when buffed?

semiticgoddess

The slash number is only there when your APR isn't an integer. So 2.5 attacks appears as 5/2, while 3 attacks just appears as 3.

Clerics of Lathander are indeed quite nice. Boon of Lathander is a valuable source of APR, regardless of your character build. I've seen much success with my own Cleric of Lathander(11)/Mage, who has been a strong melee attacker even in ToB.

DreadKhan

Clerics really get the short end of the stick at higher levels... they are amazing in BG1, but really start losing steam in BG2. I don't like their HLAs very much either.

Lord_Tansheron

DreadKhan said:

Clerics really get the short end of the stick at higher levels... they are amazing in BG1, but really start losing steam in BG2. I don't like their HLAs very much either.

Absolutely agree. There is some nice stuff, but not nice enough. It's why I am so keen on the CoL->F, you pick up the good combat/utility buffs and then start going to town with Fighter HLAs, THAC0, etc.

Bleego

semiticgod said:

The slash number is only there when your APR isn't an integer. So 2.5 attacks appears as 5/2, while 3 attacks just appears as 3.

Clerics of Lathander are indeed quite nice. Boon of Lathander is a valuable source of APR, regardless of your character build. I've seen much success with my own Cleric of Lathander(11)/Mage, who has been a strong melee attacker even in ToB.

Ahh that makes sense. I had always assumed that the /# was offhand attacks. But I guess that's just 1APR period

Bleego

AFAIK 10 attacks per round is the max possible... Is that true? If so it's pretty crazy that I can max it out at this stage in the game.

elminster

Yes that is the cap.

Arunsun

The only problem about CoL=> Fighter is that your cleric spells won't last long due to being low level as a cleric. Somehow I have always prefered not dualed CoL as you may in the end get as many APR as a CoL/Fighter because boon of Lathander stacks, but these will last long and you will get all your cleric spells, and these will last long/be fully effective.

Lord_Tansheron

While it's true the durations will be lower, they're not THAT low. Usually it's 1 round/level at the lowest (with a few exceptions) and that is already over a minute of real time. Plus, the most important buff (DuHM) has a quick cast time and is in good supply, so you can buff again as needed. Yes, Boon is a bit iffy, but you don't NEED Boon for every little thing anyway. Against big opponents where the extra APR actually matter, you can time your casts so you still get a lot out of them.

Of course it's never a universally good/bad situation in these comparisons. A world of trade-offs, and lots of variables involved that can change with party composition, the fight in question, and twelve dozen other things. Still, overall I think the CoL->F might have some pretty good potential. I really want to test it more.

Also don't forget that one of the biggest draws of the CoL->F (we need a catchy name don't you think?) is actually the Fighter levels. Unlike say a Ber->Cler (Berkley?) you not only get Fighter HLAs later on (GWW and especially Critical Strike) but you also get Fighter THAC0, which can add quite a bit of damage against some tougher opponents with huge AC like dragons etc.

JohannesN

So is this CoL->F stronger then a Wild Mage/Sorceror?
Right now I play a Blade, but did a SCS/Ascension etc solo with a Sorceror which went fairly well..

Lord_Tansheron

"Strong" is a bit of a vague term, especially when comparing fundamentally different characters (pure caster vs. phyiscal damage dealer with support buffs). Also, solo runs have their own set of concerns to worry about, as well as some twists on mechanics (like hugely increased per-character XP).

Speaking from a pure damage output perspective (measured as Y damage per X time), I would hazard a guess that the CoL->F would win against a Wild Mage/Sorceror in anything other than AoE scenarios. However, that is of course only one measure to go by, and for many people not the most important one (especially in solo runs).

In addition to that, you often aren't even in the position to choose between these exact two alternatives in a party game. Usually the CoL->F would compete with another Cleric, not an arcane caster. That's a much more interesting and comparable debate, where the usual other contenders are probably Berserker->Cleric and Ranger/Cleric. My tentative ranking so far is CoL->F / Ber->Cler / Ra/Cler, but you can definitely shift the argument by putting emphasis on different things (Ra/Cler tanks well for example, Ber->Cler is good against negative status effects, etc.).

As for @JohannesN's particular question though, I think you would be perfectly capable of clearing SCSAsc solo with a CoL->F as well, for whatever that's worth. Then again, it has been cleared solo by most classes so that's hardly a metric to go by.

P.S.: Another thing I almost forgot: unlike the Ber->Cler, CoL->F is actually a possible Sling user. With the extra APR from Boon and DuHM STR bonuses, not to mention GWW later, this could be quite the real thing indeed.

DreadKhan

Clerics don't get too much out of fighter THAC0, their total is good, and they get buffs that give the same THAC0 anyways, but getting extra apr and HLAs is a huge difference. In exchange for a Deva a high level fighter can pretty much drop in 1 round, you get CS. I would note you get less out of DUHM the earlier you dual, both duration and effect.

Bleego

Arunsun said:

The only problem about CoL=> Fighter is that your cleric spells won't last long due to being low level as a cleric. Somehow I have always prefered not dualed CoL as you may in the end get as many APR as a CoL/Fighter because boon of Lathander stacks, but these will last long and you will get all your cleric spells, and these will last long/be fully effective.

I took duration into consideration when I dualed. If buffed in the proper order, the duration is long enough to last through any single encounter.

My play style is to only use buffs when I find a fight is too difficult to survive. I.E. Don't reload unless I have no choice at all.

My main reason for rolling CoL-->F was that I am really enjoying my evil dwarf F/C but I am having trouble staying competitive in terms of thac0 on that toon mid game. So this was an experiment. I'm a bit disappointed with the hold undead ability at this point. It worked well early on but now seems almost useless sadly.

Lord_Tansheron

A note on Turn Undead: since the addition of Nightmare Mode, Turn Undead is almost completely useless anyway. Since enemy levels are drastically increased by NM, you'd need a near-max level cleric to turn any pitiful little zombie anyway. Ok well not THAT bad, but still very bad. I'm not even sure you can reach a level high enough to turn some of the highest level Undead in NM, assuming it works like it does in IWD:EE.

Anyone with more in-depth knowledge might be able to shed some light on that issue, but to be honest Turn Undead was never a huge argument for me personally anyway. I find binary skills like that not very fun, even outside of NM Turn Undead is basically either useless or overpowered.

DreadKhan said:

I would note you get less out of DUHM the earlier you dual, both duration and effect.

This may not matter, depending on your mods. Spell Revisions (which I can only recommend, great mod) caps DuHM at +3 bonus, reached at lvl 9, and its duration at 1 turn flat (no change with level). But you're right of course that this is something you need to think about when deciding what level to dual at, and as you can see it can change quite a lot depending on your individual setup.

Bleego

I agree with you about turn undead being lame at high levels. However I was hoping the Priest of Lathander ability "Hold Undead" which acts as a single target stun might be useful. However it stopped working well or at all around level 9.

Bleego

A note on Cleric buffs...

If I am going to bother casting Draw Upon Holy Might I am probably going to also cast Righteous Magic just before hand and get some improved haste from an item or nearby Mage. Boon of Lathander is ALWAYS the last buff I'll cast before entering combat.

But I rarely bother with any of the buffs unless I know I am coming up on a dragon, beholder, lich, or dungeon boss of some kind. It's typically not worthwhile to buff for general trash mobs. Unless of course I die on a particularly tough encounter.

I'd probably stop and rest/buff before every encounter in watcher's keep lvls 3-5 at this point, and even then I'd probably have my ass handed to me. But I also have no rightful business being there before going to spell hold either. Still I'm tempted to give it a go just to see how twink PoL-->Fighter really is.

DreadKhan

I'd say some of the cleric buffs could get cast pretty often; what other 2nd level spells do you need? If you imported, you will have some serious extra wisdom.

If Duhm is set to cap at +3, yes, dualing earlier is less troublesome. Is AoF affected too? Those two end up being among the best buffs a cleric has, especially late game.

Lord_Tansheron

AoF is also a flat buff under SRev, though weaker than a full-powered vanilla AoF.

Should also note that the vanilla DuHM survives in Champion's Strength (5th level), which under SRev is basically a vanilla DuHM (+6 cap at lvl18, 1 round/level) you can cast on other people. If it was 4th level I might include it in my dual considerations, but 5th is too high to bother with it imo. Probably just dual at 9 in my setup. Really wish the 2nd Boon was at 10 and not 11

DreadKhan

In Bg2 11 isn't a really late dual, and a free Boon seems pretty key to offset the loss of a speed weapon off-hand. For higher level, Chaotic Commands is a handy buff, especially when soloing.

Bleego

DreadKhan said:

I'd say some of the cleric buffs could get cast pretty often; what other 2nd level spells do you need? If you imported, you will have some serious extra wisdom.

If DuHM is set to cap at +3, yes, dualing earlier is less troublesome. Is AoF affected too? Those two end up being among the best buffs a cleric has, especially late game.

Sure I might burn some extra DuHMs before resting. But I would prioritize defensive buff spells over these as you get some free being the main character, and they are really much more useful in combination with RM & Boons.

I'll keep IH up as much as possible though.

Lord_Tansheron

DreadKhan said:

In Bg2 11 isn't a really late dual, and a free Boon seems pretty key to offset the loss of a speed weapon off-hand. For higher level, Chaotic Commands is a handy buff, especially when soloing.

It's not overly late, but still a hefty chunk of extra XP - and I'm not sure if what I'm getting is worth it. Lvl9 is 225,000xp, while lvl11 is 675,000 - three times as much. Yes a second Boon is nice, but then again so is getting to GWW faster.

Maybe it's just my mods again though. Since IH doesn't double APR in SRev (and let's be honest, IH is just a tiiiiny bit OP with double APR) the overall value of static APR goes down, while the value of GWW goes up. I suppose that with double-APR IH, a second use of Boon may be a lot more noticeable, and possibly enough to push you over into those extra two levels. Just goes to show I guess how many factors play into these sorts of decisions...

Bleego

Also this build seems to favor Wondrous Recall to get back more RMs. I could see being able to DuHM/RM 4 times per day and still have a chaotic commands on tap. That's 4 real time minutes of utter ass kicking before rest.

Dexter

@Bleego how come your off hand thac0 is the same as main hand's?

Bleego

Cloak of unerrring strikes (+2 Thac0 with offhand) - Pickpocket or Kill Treya at first Rasaad random encounter.

I'm not sure you can actually pick pocket her. I tried a bunch.

Lord_Tansheron

Who cares about offhand THAC0 anyway, 2 attacks out of 10. Pff! :P

DreadKhan

2 out of 10 is more significant if you aren't wielding a crummy damage speed weapon though! Not sure what you'd use, but FotA seems to default primary weapon. Slow really hurts certain enemies. Still, not hard doing better than d8+2 from Belm for offhand.

Lord_Tansheron

Yeah I'm just being a little facetious :P Still, I reckon there might be better cloaks out there than that one. Or there might not, depending on your party setup and who gets which items. It's good to know that cloak is available in any case.