Safana and NPC Project

Yamcha

This is an NPC I never recruited before (normally Imoen fills the thief slot), so I kicked Kivan out in her favour.

So far I'm not impressed, she's weak and as I already have 2 thieves in my party, she has no access to the good stuff.
She's trying hard to support the grp with her 2 traps and ranged battle though,

But the real disappointment are the banters. A tiny dialog after completing the pirate cave, and no other interactions since then.

I'm running with Imoen, Viconia, Neera and Kagain.
Is anything good still coming, or is she the red headed stepchild of the NPC-P ?

SmilingSword

Safana needs to be a swashbuckler, EEkeeper her to that for some more spice than a pure thief. She has banters with Coren I think, or at least she should.
Haven't really used her that much as I can't seem to bring myself to boot Imoen of my party after I started using the NPC project.

Aedan

I think that Safana would banter more if you had Coran in your party.

AstroBryGuy

BG1NPC is not equal in terms of the amount of content added for each NPC. Safana does have banters with other the NPCs, but she does not have as many interjections into quests or any added quests of her own.

Vigilark

I've had safana and Coran for a few areas. Haven't heard them talk to each other yet. Are there special areas/conditions that need to be met?

Permidion_Stark

Safana is the only NPC that I am glad doesn't say much. I find her voice really irritating. I know it's meant to be sexy but I just find it annoying.

Vigilark

well u don't hear her voice just read the dialog with npc project.

Madrict

Is there any chance of more NPC Project content being added for Safana?

She is my favourite NPC, but I sometimes feel she gets left out a lot, lol. I like her character archetype

The NPC Project is such a great mod (probably my favourite mod for BGEE), and I dont want to insinuate that I am not satisfied, because really I love it.

I just thought I would ask about Safana seeing as I like her so much and her role appears to be extended in SoD, maybe she could get a bit more banter or a quest in BGEE through the NPC Project?

*Crosses finger*

AstroBryGuy

Madrict said:

Is there any chance of more NPC Project content being added for Safana?

She is my favourite NPC, but I sometimes feel she gets left out a lot, lol. I like her character archetype

The NPC Project is such a great mod (probably my favourite mod for BGEE), and I dont want to insinuate that I am not satisfied, because really I love it.

I just thought I would ask about Safana seeing as I like her so much and her role appears to be extended in SoD, maybe she could get a bit more banter or a quest in BGEE through the NPC Project?

*Crosses finger*

No. The BG1NPC Project is closed to new content. However, if someone wants to create a Safana Friendship mod (like the Xan and Coran Friendship mods) that would extend the friendship path, that would be cool.

cmorgan

Safana also has a romance. A very tough one to complete, as your rep has to remain low, and she is very picky - but it is definitely one of the few "evil" romances.

Vigilark

cmorgan said:

Safana also has a romance. A very tough one to complete, as your rep has to remain low, and she is very picky - but it is definitely one of the few "evil" romances.

this with the npc project? MIght try it with an evil play through.

Madrict

Wait Safana has a romance? That isn't from NPC Project is it?

Can you link it?

AstroBryGuy

cmorgan said:

Safana also has a romance. A very tough one to complete, as your rep has to remain low, and she is very picky - but it is definitely one of the few "evil" romances.

I think @cmorgan is referring to Shar-Teel's romance.

http://www.davelevy.info/Downloads/mBN_RG_SharTeel.html

Madrict

AstroBryGuy said:

cmorgan said:

Safana also has a romance. A very tough one to complete, as your rep has to remain low, and she is very picky - but it is definitely one of the few "evil" romances.

I think @cmorgan is referring to Shar-Teel's romance.

http://www.davelevy.info/Downloads/mBN_RG_SharTeel.html

Ahh thanks for clearing that up, damn I got excited though, thought I missed something, lol.

cmorgan

Heh. I am an idiot. @AstroBryGuy is right - got the wrong NPC in my head there. I apologise, @Madrict.

I will go search, though- I could have sworn someone had a Safana romance. Perhaps it was one of those ones that never got out of the "help I can't seem to figure out dialog syntax" stages. I will poke about and see what I can find in the archives.

Madrict

cmorgan said:

Heh. I am an idiot. @AstroBryGuy is right - got the wrong NPC in my head there. I apologise, @Madrict.

I will go search, though- I could have sworn someone had a Safana romance. Perhaps it was one of those ones that never got out of the "help I can't seem to figure out dialog syntax" stages. I will poke about and see what I can find in the archives.

Haha no problem. If you do happen to find one, that would be sweet!

cmorgan

Hmmm... note to self - don't internet search mods, specifically discussions of mods. Stick to forum searches and archived stuff. Appparently, there are a bunch of folks out there that feel that writing fanfic or NPC modding is equivalent to inflicting harm on the universe, the amateur writers are perpetrating eye-bleeding nastiness, BioWare dialogs are "cringeworthy", and basically anyone writing content mods for BG[1,2,EE,2EE,BGT,EET] are in desperate need of psychotherapy or immediate euthanasia.

I have two words for them - and those words are not "merry christmas". Welcome to the interwebz.

On the Safana front, I am sorry to report no luck.

I did find out *why* Safana gets left out - her story arc is already "ended" in BG2, so the only folks dealing with her deal with her through Coran. So I think the modders who have dealt with things only set her up as a foil to their PC<>Coran romances; I see mostly BG2 stuff. No BG1 stuff. I have references in my archives to two attempts to start BG Safana content-addition mods, but neither got past the draft stage before being dropped - in one case, the person moved on to other games, and in the other I think the writer decided it just was not a character that most folk would use. They cited the dexterity factor and having both Imoen and Safana seemed unlikely.

Sounds like it might be something you might like to try writing, though - lots of great inspirational materials to draw from out there for this trope. I say go for it - writing is an interesting challenge. Just write for your own fun, and there are plenty of us around to help you code it into the game.

shawne

cmorgan said:

Hmmm... note to self - don't internet search mods, specifically discussions of mods. Stick to forum searches and archived stuff. Appparently, there are a bunch of folks out there that feel that writing fanfic or NPC modding is equivalent to inflicting harm on the universe, the amateur writers are perpetrating eye-bleeding nastiness, BioWare dialogs are "cringeworthy", and basically anyone writing content mods for BG[1,2,EE,2EE,BGT,EET] are in desperate need of psychotherapy or immediate euthanasia.

As a rule, avoid RPG Codex. They don't like anything, ever.

That said, there's a grain of truth to the notion that some mods are simply better-written than others: characters like Tsujatha and Saerileth are deeply, fundamentally problematic in ways that have nothing to do with "Baldur's Gate", while someone like Kelsey or Valen is - at the very least - better-suited to the game they're meant to be participating in.

One example that always helps me consider the differences is ToB epilogues; compare the length of Viconia's romance ending

CHARNAME and Viconia continued adventuring long after leaving Tethyr. He became an important political figure, and she was his trusted counsel. Eventually Viconia bore CHARNAME's child, which first served to strain their relationship. The birth, however, changed her, and she dedicated herself to raising the boy, teaching him both the ways of the drow and of CHARNAME's people. She marveled at the understanding in his eyes, but, unfortunately, didn't live to see him grow. Viconia was poisoned by a servant of Lolth, her last words whispered to her loving mate in private. CHARNAME raised his son in secret, and tales vary on the result. Some say they waged a crusade against the drow, but all agree that the former child of Bhaal never forgot the love of his dark maiden.

to, say, one of Isra's (random example, no offense meant to Rhaella):

After their victory at the Throne of Bhaal, Isra and CHARNAME returned to Amn for a short time, where Isra was finally able to show her lover around her adopted home city of Crimmor. The moment of calm did not last long, however, as Isra could not dislodge the feeling that they had left their work in Tethyr unfinished. Hoping to help repair the damage caused during the Bhaalspawn Crisis, they returned south, and despite an initial cool reception by the Crown, eventually became well regarded within the kingdom... at least until relations with Amn escalated. They returned north to Crimmor, where Isra finally renewed her ties to the Order of the Ruby Rose. CHARNAME found himself very welcome amongst the Sunite paladins as well, and legend says that he accompanied Isra on a number of missions on their behest. Unconventional though their romance may have been during those years, their commitment to each other only grew, and upon retiring from active service, they were eventually married in Athkatla. Isra's father took an instant liking to her new husband, only bemoaning the fact that they were not wed years earlier. More poignant for Isra was her eldest sister Rana's unexpected presence at the wedding, and they took the first steps towards mending their very damaged relationship. It is said that Isra eventually went into politics, striving to introduce a bit of compassion into a system sadly devoid of it. What ultimately became of Isra and CHARNAME, however, no tale tells.

Sometimes there's wisdom in using ten words when the temptation is to use twenty. I understand why it happens - NPC mods are every bit the modder's character as their Bhaalspawn, and I can imagine it's difficult not to just gush endlessly about their adventures - but at the same time, this is part of why so many of them are seen as subpar. It's not so bad to leave some things to the imagination...

Madrict

Ah thanks for looking into it at any rate, I hope it wasn't too time consuming!

What you said does make sense, it's a pity but I can understand why Safana isn't focused on.

I honestly don't think I have the skills to write anything half way decent, lol...I have exactly 0 creative bones in my body xD

cmorgan

@shawne - I agree - and I am one of those folks who's entire NPC mod takes *30* words to say what could be said in three

Longer discussion here because I am just poking around, but it is thread-cluttering so spoilered...

I don't have a problem with folks posting actual reviews, or even saying what they don't like about a mod. I don't tend to, simply because I know that even the worst mod out there took someone trying something new, whacking their head against the wall repeatedly to get it to install, then to get it to work... Fanfic and NPC stuff often does fall victim to self-insertion, MarySue|Stu, taking over the story, etc. And the "less is more" that pro writers (sometimes) learn is tough to expect from fan writing (the derivation of fan is from fanatic, I think).

It was just is tough to see folks making assumptions about a person's worth or sanity because they wrote something and shared it. I even agree with some of the stuff that I ran into. My answer is to just not play the mod; no harm no foul!

I should remember that for some folks, "having fun" involves the same behaviors found in GenChat in any MMORPG.

@Madrict - no worries - it was fun to research the "old days". As far as "0 creative bones', the thing is, you might surprise yourself. But I do understand. I can't write lines or banters for the NPC's I don't really get into.

shawne

@cmorgan:

I hear you - admittedly, I've encountered the occasional bit of mod content that made me go "What could they possibly have been thinking?!", but what's the point of blasting that out for the world to see? At least constructive criticism might help, especially if the mod's still being worked on and has a chance of getting better over time.