Annoying game programming: character equipment

FrdNwsm

I don't know where to post this; it's not really a bug, just a complaint about how the game handles raising a dead character and recovering his gear. So I'll try just doing it here.

Why do characters drop EVERYTHING when they die? Logically, they should only drop what's in their hands. Can we possibly change this? OK, for the moment, let's accept this as a game mechanic that can't be changed. When you raise them back from the dead, their equipment doesn't just appear at their feet, it's somewhere else entirely. I usually have to scroll around the map looking for it, and if more than one character has died, there are two (or more) piles of stuff. I have to go over to each one to see which pile belongs to whom.

And if the room is dark or has a lot of distracting detail, the equipment can be quite hard to find at times. The capper to this came tonight, when I was doing Neera's ToB quest. During the big arena fight, Keldorn got killed. He wasn't disintegrated, he wasn't chunked; we were able to raise him normally, so his gear had to have survived also. However, there was no sign of his equipment. I even rested there to let all the corpses disappear, zoomed into the map and painstakingly scrolled across the entire room, hitting Tab every 5 seconds. I was totally unable to find his stuff after 10 minutes of this tedium. I could have said the heck with it, since I have reserve equipment in my bag of holding, but there is no replacement for Carsomyr.

I am going to have to reboot and do the whole thing over again.

Yannir

And sometimes characters die close to doors, which then effectively blocks the equipment forever. I feel your pain in this.

Jarrakul

I feel like quickloot should help with finding the loot, at least?

FrdNwsm

Jarrakul said:

I feel like quickloot should help with finding the loot, at least?

What is quickloot?

Wesley

click the little red diamond button - any loot within range of sight will show up in a bar along the bottom of the screen.

FrdNwsm

I usually hit tab for that, but I'll give it a try. But really, there shouldn't be any need for such work arounds, You shouldn't drop gear in the first place, and if you do, it should be at the character's feet when he's raised.

What is the premise here? Your friends strip your body of all your gear, drag you several hundred yards off into the bushes, resurrect you, and then totally forget where they left your stuff?

Lord_Tansheron

Of all the issues with unrealistic representation in this game, this one seems to me one that's way down the list.

Maybe it helps to think of it this way: they don't actually DROP everything, it's technically still on their dead and broken body. You looting it is the equivalent of stripping the corpse, but being considerate the developers thought it better not to include the gory details.

FrdNwsm

Lord_Tansheron said:

Of all the issues with unrealistic representation in this game, this one seems to me one that's way down the list.

It doesn't occur that often, but when it does it's annoying to have to scroll all around the room looking for stuff. Would it be so hard to have gear appear at the formerly dead person's feet, instead of halfway across the map hidden behind a rock?

This particular instance was more egregious than most. Having defeated something like 30 or so attackers with only 1 casualty is a decent victory, but I have to repeat the encounter because gear which I know is there somewhere has gone invisible.

Gallowglass

Dead enemies don't drop loot in BP2, and the same arena is being re-used during Neera's quest in BG2ee:ToB ... so perhaps it's a feature of that arena which has been (incorrectly!) carried over into ToB that anything dropped by any corpse (even dead comrades) will instantly vanish instead of lying on the ground?

If so, then this is a bug (and should be reported as such). But I haven't tested it to check.

FrdNwsm

Not having played BP2, I have no knowledge of this. But if what you say is true, that might explain why no trace of Keldorn's stuff could be found. I haven't reported bugs before; I assume there is a folder somewhere that is assigned for this task?

I'll take a fast scan of the forums and check.

FrdNwsm

Heh, found it. That was fast. What version of BG am I playing?

Gallowglass

FrdNwsm said:

Heh, found it. That was fast. What version of BG am I playing?

Clearly some version of BG2ee, since you're in Neera's quest. If you're patched up to date, then it'll be v1.3.

semiticgoddess

FrdNwsm said:

What is the premise here? Your friends strip your body of all your gear, drag you several hundred yards off into the bushes, resurrect you, and then totally forget where they left your stuff?

Happens to me all the time.

AnonymousHero

FrdNwsm said:

Lord_Tansheron said:

Of all the issues with unrealistic representation in this game, this one seems to me one that's way down the list.

It doesn't occur that often, but when it does it's annoying to have to scroll all around the room looking for stuff. Would it be so hard to have gear appear at the formerly dead person's feet, instead of halfway across the map hidden behind a rock?

That might lead to other UX problems if you actually decided to leave the corpse behind, but still want to keep the items. (Some no-reloaders do this, for example.)

moody_mage

PC deaths are treated the same as any other creature death in the entire game. Simple solution. Don't die.

FrdNwsm

decado said:

PC deaths are treated the same as any other creature death in the entire game. Simple solution. Don't die.

Thhbbbppt!

mlnevese

decado said:

PC deaths are treated the same as any other creature death in the entire game. Simple solution. Don't die.

I would love if all the characters in my party would listen to this advice

Sciobtha

I tend to agree with OP from an rp standpoint. Does a res, create a healthy clone of you that your loot is still on the dead you? I'd always assumed that they grab your spirit and slap it back down into the same body so you'd "wake up" wearing all the armor, trinkets, and such as when you died.

Fortunately quick loot is what I use as well so I can have the correct character pick up all their gear.

TheArtisan

In PnP resurrection can be done with just a small part of the deceased body, so it is making a completely new body. Putting it in the same body would make no sense considering that body's sustained lethal injuries.

FrdNwsm

Artemius_I said:

In PnP resurrection can be done with just a small part of the deceased body, so it is making a completely new body. Putting it in the same body would make no sense considering that body's sustained lethal injuries.

Raise dead clearly puts the soul back in the same body, which is indeed quite injured and needs healing afterwards. Resurrection, a more powerful spell, restores life and then heals the wounds as a secondary action. In either case, the body is the same and should be wearing it's equipment.

Small body parts cannot be used to raise the dead, since if a character gets "chunked", he/she is not restorable.

Lord_Tansheron

FrdNwsm said:

In either case, the body is the same and should be wearing it's equipment.

If I replace both the head and the handle of my axe, is it still my axe?

Yannir

Lord_Tansheron said:

FrdNwsm said:

In either case, the body is the same and should be wearing it's equipment.

If I replace both the head and the handle of my axe, is it still my axe?

Of course it is. Don't get silly. It's not the same axe but it's still YOUR axe. Even if you just hold the axe in your hand for a second, it's not the same it was a second ago, it's now one second older.

FrdNwsm

Lord_Tansheron said:

FrdNwsm said:

In either case, the body is the same and should be wearing it's equipment.

If I replace both the head and the handle of my axe, is it still my axe?

Raise dead does not replace anything of the body; it grabs hold of the spirit which is floating about nearby on the astral plane or whatever, and forcibly shoves it back into the body, then kick-starts the heart and nervous system. If it was capable of totally replacing the body, then chunked or totally life drained characters could be raised.

Lord_Tansheron

What if it rebuilds your body from a toe, and then later you lose the toe and have it replaced by a spell, too. Are you still you?

Son_of_Imoen

I always pick up all the gear immediately after a fight, before trekking to the temple. Obviously, this only works well if my party has enough free inventory space.

mlnevese

Lord_Tansheron said:

What if it rebuilds your body from a toe, and then later you lose the toe and have it replaced by a spell, too. Are you still you?

In D&D mythology yes. The spell actually places your soul in the new body, so you are still you

Wowo

FrdNwsm said:

Artemius_I said:

In PnP resurrection can be done with just a small part of the deceased body, so it is making a completely new body. Putting it in the same body would make no sense considering that body's sustained lethal injuries.

Raise dead clearly puts the soul back in the same body, which is indeed quite injured and needs healing afterwards. Resurrection, a more powerful spell, restores life and then heals the wounds as a secondary action. In either case, the body is the same and should be wearing it's equipment.

Small body parts cannot be used to raise the dead, since if a character gets "chunked", he/she is not restorable.

In D&D a character should be able to be resurrected even if they are chunked from just a tiny bit of there body, even the dust left after being disintegrated is enough.

FrdNwsm

"In D&D a character should be able to be resurrected even if they are chunked from just a tiny bit of there body, even the dust left after being disintegrated is enough."

Unfortunately, we aren't using straight D&D rules here, we're using Beamdog's version of them.

Yannir

FrdNwsm said:

"In D&D a character should be able to be resurrected even if they are chunked from just a tiny bit of there body, even the dust left after being disintegrated is enough."

Unfortunately, we aren't using straight D&D rules here, we're using Beamdog's version of them.

Actually, it's Bioware's rules we're using. The original developer of BG.

Genryu

It is a bit annoying, especially when you raise a character in the middle of a lengthy battle, and then have to go through the rest of the fight completely naked! Because you 'Cannot change armour during battle'.

But I never took it off....

FrdNwsm

Genryu said:

It is a bit annoying, especially when you raise a character in the middle of a lengthy battle, and then have to go through the rest of the fight completely naked! Because you 'Cannot change armour during battle'.

But I never took it off....

Pretend you're a Kensai.