I have to disagree. There are story reasons for timing. In regards to taking a while to finish BGEE, that is merely a game mechanic so players are not rushed through the game. It has been my experience forcing me to complete a game by a certain time frame, say two in game weeks, really takes the fun away. Some times you just want to take your time and enjoy it all. From a story perspective, you need to retain the timeline from BGEE to SoD to BG2EE or the overall plot makes no sense. For example, you are not imprisoned for months on end by Irenicus. So NPCs that have other plot lines in BG2EE need to leave you early enough in SoD to explain what happened to them. Monty and Xzar did not set up a necromancer lab, full of apprentices, in an hour for example. That probably took weeks. So they need to leave you in SoD to explain this. Without timing, plot makes no sense.
I have to disagree. There are story reasons for timing. In regards to taking a while to finish BGEE, that is merely a game mechanic so players are not rushed through the game. It has been my experience forcing me to complete a game by a certain time frame, say two in game weeks, really takes the fun away. Some times you just want to take your time and enjoy it all. From a story perspective, you need to retain the timeline from BGEE to SoD to BG2EE or the overall plot makes no sense. For example, you are not imprisoned for months on end by Irenicus. So NPCs that have other plot lines in BG2EE need to leave you early enough in SoD to explain what happened to them. Monty and Xzar did not set up a necromancer lab, full of apprentices, in an hour for example. That probably took weeks. So they need to leave you in SoD to explain this. Without timing, plot makes no sense.
Yes, there are story reasons and there are game reasons. It is not fun storywise or gamewise to have your NPCs forcibly taken from you. The inherent story problems of taking too long were already expounded upon earlier.
A couple of notes:
1. There is no story necessity that Viconia, Quayle, and others could not set up shop in Athkatla quickly 2. That CHARNAME spends only a very short time before Irenicus says "Ah the Child of Bhaal has awoken"
Open your mind a bit, a lot of these story barriers you mention are not actually barriers at all.
Viccy explicitly states that she settles down near beregost for a while, that is not quickly, that takes some degree of time. Qualye needs enough time to bond and form a father-daughter relationship with Aerie. Edwin needs time to gain status and rank within the Shadow Thieves. Monty and Xzar set up an entire operation, all this takes time.
Spending months with Irenicus seems very unlikely as well, Charname, Imoen, Jah, and Minsc make no mention of long term torture. Khalid's body is still recognizable on the table, he hasn't been dead long. The shadow thieves state they learnt of you capture almost immediately and quickly investigated/attacked. A quick time line from capture to freedom seems obvious.
I will agree that forcing NPCs away may not be fun. Though since we haven't played yet. Maybe it is all explained brilliantly and equals great fun. For example, losing Yoshimo sucks, but his betrayal and death leave a lasting and memorable impact on the story. This, to me, makes the game as a whole more fun, despite the sheer suckage of losing Yoshi.
I have to disagree. There are story reasons for timing. In regards to taking a while to finish BGEE, that is merely a game mechanic so players are not rushed through the game. It has been my experience forcing me to complete a game by a certain time frame, say two in game weeks, really takes the fun away. Some times you just want to take your time and enjoy it all. From a story perspective, you need to retain the timeline from BGEE to SoD to BG2EE or the overall plot makes no sense. For example, you are not imprisoned for months on end by Irenicus. So NPCs that have other plot lines in BG2EE need to leave you early enough in SoD to explain what happened to them. Monty and Xzar did not set up a necromancer lab, full of apprentices, in an hour for example. That probably took weeks. So they need to leave you in SoD to explain this. Without timing, plot makes no sense.
I'm pretty sure you ARE imprisoned for months on end.
@swit For the same reason gnaumiec suggested, time. Time has passed since BG1, evidently enough time for people who don't have Irenicus' powerful teleportation magic at their disposal to get down to the capital of a whole other country on foot/by carriage. Also, the game is naturally compressed for the sake of the player. You could arguably complete BG1 in like a week of in-game time, but we all know that it would likely take months to realistically complete the game's events.
This is directed towards the comments advocating changes to make your BG1 party show up in Chateau Irenicus at the start of BG2.
The idea of "canon" exists whether you like it or not. It is true, that you can theoretically finish the game as quickly, or as slowly as you please, and take whomever you like along the way. That changes YOUR story, but it doesn't change the "canon" story.
This is both a good and bad thing. The freedom given to you by these games is amazing. You can play through the entire series with a despicably evil party and basically do whatever you want along the way.
That said, when you start up BG2, it is assumed that you traveled with a party of Jaheira, Minsc, Dynaheir, Khalid, and Imoen. It is implied that you traveled with all of them at least for a time, and that Imoen was actually with you when you were kidnapped by Irenicus.
As a player you have always had two options at this point. You can complain about inconsistency and demand that a 15 year old game be drastically changed, rewriting scripts, dialogue, and storyline so that you can have the party you played through BG1 with...
Or you can ignore it like we all have for 15 years. Understand that the game is fine the way it is, despite its limitations and its ideas of a "canon" party. Ignore Jaheira and Minsc in the jail cells if it makes you feel any better about it. Accept that it is in character for NPCs like Xzar and Montaron to disappear and go do their own thing. Hell, there are even mods if you can't accept that. Just play the game.
TLDR: Don't mess with 15 year old dialogue and gameplay because you can't handle a game with a story having that isn't exactly what you want it to be.
P.S. In regards to SOD gameplay. I don't really care whether characters are taken from you over the course of the game or at the end of the game. The former probably adds for a smoother storyline, while the latter would probably make some people happier.
@Itstucktwice I actually have no problem with Xzar and Montaron doing their own thing post-BG1. What I do have a problem with is having to trek through Chateau Irenicus without any party members I would actually be traveling with, or would be willing to keep afterwards. I wouldn't even necessarily need my actual BG1 party. Just give me Viconia and Shar-Teel, or Safana and Kagain. Hell, putting Viconia in the dungeon with you would solve the silliness of her being imperiled and in need of rescue a second time. Two birds, one sling ullet.
Further, the game really isn't fine the way it is. Yes, I can deal with it, I've done so dozens of times. However, the beginning of BG2 is just plain clunky and awkward. And, aside from the radness of the dungeon itself, it's just plain poorly-wrought. I'm not just going to pretend that it doesn't bother me, and while I recognize the exceedingly low odds of it happening I'm still going to hope and suggest it be amended until it does.
Until then, well, there's always Dungeon-Be-Gone, I guess. Sigh.
Those are all evil guys. The thing with evil guys is they don't stick around just because you are mates. They clear off to serve thier own agenda. Indeed, any one of those would sell you out to Irenicus.
Except that Viconia's whole entire storyline is about what happened to her between BG1 and BG2, especially if you romance her. You'd have to script an entire alternative scenario where she was tortured alongside you instead. And it's not necessary, because you don't have to take Jaheira and Minsc with you in the first place, you don't even have to talk to them. Just follow Imoen, pick up Yoshimo, and keep going until you leave the Chateau. You have immediate access to Viconia and Korgan after that.
@Fardragon I doubt it, Irenicus does torture all your party members, and not because he wants information or something from them, he uses them as guinea pigs. Having a similar alignment isn't guarantee for getting along. Besides, after all the party from BG1 has been through, you would think they'd rather trust each other than some random wizard in a BDSM outfit. Unless of course, the companion in question isn't just evil, but also an idiot.
Besides, there could always be the option that the evil companion doesn't know that Charname has been captured as well, until they get reunited. And then it could still be a "together we have a better chance of getting out of here alive" scenario.
Certainly, if the PC is evil, it's even more likely that an evil companion would sell you out, on the gounds of doing unto others before they do unto you. Turning on each other is the inherent weakness of evil.
The thing is, those guys are not in Irenicus' dungeon because they where in your party. The Shadow Thieves aren't dumb, they tried to get you alone for the ambush. They are in the dungeon because they tried to rescue you. Imoen is loyal even to an evil protagonist. Jalhera and Dynahiar have both been following you because they have missions to keep an eye on Bhaalspawn.
You should start considering the NPCs as characters with volition of thier own, rather than robots that only do your bidding.
Uhm, I don't really recall the time it's said that the companions are in the dungeon because they tried to rescue you ... I am pretty sure it is left rather vague on purpose.
Who is to say that no evil companion can have a "job-related" motivation, too? Sure, there are companions that would sell you out, but not all of them. Evil doesn't equal evil. Just as examples, I am aware that some of these would contradict the story otherwise: Baeloth could be there because he is a lone drow stuck on the surface and has no other place to go, so he follows you. Tiax could be there because he is a priest of Cyric and you are a serious thread to his patron (or maybe he's just there because he's an idiot who got himself captured).
And hey, who says they need to be evil? Neutral works just as well. I bet a lot of folks would love to see Xan return and he has already proven that he is prone to getting captured (besides, he too could have gotten an assignment on keeping a personal eye on you or like it was handled in his mod for BG2, he was assigned to look into the trouble with the vampires).
Sure, you could come up with an explanation for any combination of characters at the beginning of BG2, but there is no escaping that it had to be a fixed starting party, and that it cannot now be changed. Ergo, SoD is going to EXPLAIN the BG2 starting party, not change it.
And this is how it will be done: At the end of SoD the protagonist is ALONE. Imoen leads the canon party in an attempted rescue. The rescue fails and Dynahiar dies heroically.
Now, that's a set-up I can get behind. But as of now, it is not canonical. I don't necessarily want an evil starting party, I just want the starting party to get a logical explanation, because oh boy, do I hate continuity contradictions.
My over all point was more about how the canon party is not necessarily more or less logical than a similar set-up with evil/ evil-ish companions. I mean, Dynaheir and co. will leave your party in BG1 if your reputation drops to low anyway if I am not mistaken, so the job-assignment can't be too important.
And this is how it will be done: At the end of SoD the protagonist is ALONE. Imoen leads the canon party in an attempted rescue. The rescue fails and Dynahiar dies heroically.
She didn't lead any rescues, she was there with the protagonist when Irenicus's goons got a jump on them. Go run BG2 again to refresh your memory, she says it clearly.
Regardless of who you choose to have in your party, SOD simply needs to bring the 5 cannon party members close to the scene of your capture and it will all make sense. If you have 5 non cannon party members on your team when you are captured I would assume they will just not be present in SOA and you will assume that they left you or could not find you or were killed. Unless beamdog finds a story moment or moments during the course of SOD that will allow them to be separated from you before the capture so that you are not left wandering. I would put my money on the latter.
Any party member who shows up in SOA outside of Irenicus dungeon will need to leave your party at some point in order for it to make sense and maybe beamdog will come up with a scenario for each NPC that will allow them to disband or at least not be around when you are captured.
You could get separated from your party and stumble into the cannon party and then get ambushed. I would assume each cannon member will have a driving force that puts them in your vicinity when it all goes down. probably the shinning lady and the crusade that links the cannon members with you before the ambush. Any cannon members that are already in your party will be there and any non cannon party members will probably get separated by some event. Then you will stumble into any remaining cannon party members that you didn't already have on your team before you get ambushed by Irenicus. Just my thoughts on how it could be done.
The start of BG2 is going to be the same so there is no point in bothering with the idea of all of your SOD team members showing up in the dungeon. It's not legally possible and the intention of the Bioware team was that you are supposed to be crippled and running scared at the start of BG2. Your loss of team members was intentional to get you to try out new BG2 NPCs and mix up your party tactics. Their choice of cannon party members was not to everyone's liking but that isn't the problem. The problem is that their presence cannot be explained if you didn't travel with them in BG1. That is why beamdog simply needs to link those 5 characters to your general location when you are captured through some major event like the crusade and it will all work out in a logical way. Explaining why any non cannon party member is not present at the start of BG2 would be nice but not necessary. I think, given the rare opportunity that beamdog has, they will probably try to find a way to tie up all loose ends so that you are not left wandering what happened to non cannon NPCs like Quale for example.
And this is how it will be done: At the end of SoD the protagonist is ALONE. Imoen leads the canon party in an attempted rescue. The rescue fails and Dynahiar dies heroically.
She didn't lead any rescues, she was there with the protagonist when Irenicus's goons got a jump on them. Go run BG2 again to refresh your memory, she says it clearly.
I didn't say that's what happened in BG2. I said that is what is GOING TO HAPPEN in SoD. Yes, she will be there (with her own party) when the ambush occurs, but that will be because she is rushing to warn the the protagonist and arrives just too late.
I didn't say that's what happened in BG2. I said that is what is GOING TO HAPPEN in SoD. Yes, she will be there (with her own party) when the ambush occurs, but that will be because she is rushing to warn the the protagonist and arrives just too late.
It's all your speculation, because there's no proof as of yet that she's not joinable in SoD, as there's no proof that protagonist is gonna be alone at the end.
Except that Viconia's whole entire storyline is about what happened to her between BG1 and BG2, especially if you romance her. You'd have to script an entire alternative scenario where she was tortured alongside you instead. And it's not necessary, because you don't have to take Jaheira and Minsc with you in the first place, you don't even have to talk to them. Just follow Imoen, pick up Yoshimo, and keep going until you leave the Chateau. You have immediate access to Viconia and Korgan after that.
Well, with the Viconia thing, it was more of a "why didn't Bioware do this instead" than an actual suggestion of what should be done right now. I do understand that it's a bit too late to fix the debacle that is BG2 Viconia, as much as I like her character and her romance's themes. I just find it baffling how truly bad the beginning of the game was and how easily it could have been avoided. I also find it silly that Viconia had to be recruited by being imperiled a second time. It would have been so much simpler to just not do it the way they did. Granted, it's neither here nor there, but given how much ceaseless vitriol Overhaul gets around here for their mistakes, I don't see how I can be faulted for holding Bioware to the same standards when they foolishly wrote themselves into a series of corners for no reason.
Those are all evil guys. The thing with evil guys is they don't stick around just because you are mates. They clear off to serve thier own agenda. Indeed, any one of those would sell you out to Irenicus.
I don't buy that. Shar-Teel is cowed into joining by your superior fighting ability, or your ability to attract a superior fighter to the group to act as your champion in the duel. Might making right matters more to her than some wizard waving gold in her face. Viconia respects the ruthlessness of an Evil CHARNAME and sticks by them for the potential for future power grabs. Kagain is a mercenary, true, but he's also pragmatic and practical. Why take the promise of a supposed big payout from a complete stranger you aren't sure you can trust when CHARNAME has proven to be a tried-and-true supply of constant treasure? Dorn's whole deal is that traitors suck and he is grateful for CHARNAME helping his revenge campaign, so he wouldn't betray you unless the payoff was huge. Again, why listen to some complete unknown when CHARNAME already pays well and you despise traitors?
Further, why would Irenicus even bother with paying off any of your compatriots when he's confident he can easily subdue you by whatever means he ends up subduing you with? Irenicus betrays everybody, so even if he did payoff your comrades, he would capture or kill them, anyway. So, bam, they end up in the cells, and when Imoen frees you suddenly you have the leverage you need to remind them who is in charge, assuming you don't just kill them. But, this never happens because they are mysteriously never there because reasons.
Sure, you could come up with an explanation for any combination of characters at the beginning of BG2, but there is no escaping that it had to be a fixed starting party, and that it cannot now be changed.
I'm inclined to disagree that it "had" to be a fixed starting party. They could have put multiple characters in the cells so you could pick and choose. Surely, that would have been better for the characters who got weird shoehorned roles in the game, like Safana and Coran. Put them in a cell at the beginning of the game instead of having them get mauled by werewolves in a really stupid minor quest. Yes, these things are pretty much too late to change now without mods, but it's disingenuous to suggest that Bioware didn't foul up the whole thing with weird decisions that make little sense.
But, again, I'm not ignoring that they have their own agendas or have motivations of their own. But, as you point out, they have interest in power and material wealth, being Evil characters. As I've mentioned, CHARNAME was a steady supply of both even BEFORE they became the Hero of Baldur's Gate, so why not stick by her? Granted, Viconia had other goals like settling down and living in quiet contemplation of her goddess for a time, but that's only because Bioware wrote that. It's not intrinsic to her existence as a character. Bioware chose what they wrote, and in some cases they made the wrong call.
Those are all evil guys. The thing with evil guys is they don't stick around just because you are mates. They clear off to serve thier own agenda. Indeed, any one of those would sell you out to Irenicus.
I don't buy that. Shar-Teel is cowed into joining by your superior fighting ability, or your ability to attract a superior fighter to the group to act as your champion in the duel. Might making right matters more to her than some wizard waving gold in her face. Viconia respects the ruthlessness of an Evil CHARNAME and sticks by them for the potential for future power grabs. Kagain is a mercenary, true, but he's also pragmatic and practical. Why take the promise of a supposed big payout from a complete stranger you aren't sure you can trust when CHARNAME has proven to be a tried-and-true supply of constant treasure? Dorn's whole deal is that traitors suck and he is grateful for CHARNAME helping his revenge campaign, so he wouldn't betray you unless the payoff was huge. Again, why listen to some complete unknown when CHARNAME already pays well and you despise traitors?
Just a quick thing.. I had Shar-Teel join a couple of days ago and she joined because she lost a bet. AND she is pretty unhappy about it. A Chaotic Evil male-hater shouldn't be that hard to convince to turn against a (male) PC, if the captors -which I always thought where drow btw- are smart enough to send a strong woman to convince Shar-Teel. The enemys are stronger than you, a woman leads them and you have a happy Shar-Teel..
And IIRC Korgan joins you permanently because the caravan that his mercenarys should protect is missing. Once you and your party is a hero, he has no reason to stick around and could just go back to restart his mercenary group for more profit (and less danger)
EVERY character has an agenda (more or less fleshed out tho) and the point of alignment is how much they value their goals vs friendship.
Shar-Teel believes might makes right, so as I said I'm not convinced approaching her with a bag of gold would convince her. And, I've always thought your capture was perpetrated by overwhelming numbers from ambush, not actual greater strength.
Kagain isn't going to find more profit getting 50 gold a head guarding caravans compared to CHARNAME regularly selling magical weapons and rare jewlels for hundreds and thousands of gold. Safer? Sure. More profitable? Nah.
Shar-Teel believes might makes right, so as I said I'm not convinced approaching her with a bag of gold would convince her. And, I've always thought your capture was perpetrated by overwhelming numbers from ambush, not actual greater strength.
Kagain isn't going to find more profit getting 50 gold a head guarding caravans compared to CHARNAME regularly selling magical weapons and rare jewlels for hundreds and thousands of gold. Safer? Sure. More profitable? Nah.
Oh, I don't think you can bribe Shar-Teel easily, I just said that i doubt that it will be hard to convince her to turn against the pc (or anyone for that matter..).
The problem is, I can think of many reasons for characters to abandon charname, so I'm not really trusting evil characters to keep helping me But maybe that is jsut me
(I always understood Good = Altruistic, Evil = Egoistic, with neutral more like "nice to friends and not going out of their way to harm or benefit the rest" )
Evil characters aren't the only ones who could have justifiable reasons for leaving the party, though. Ajantis goes where the Order tells him; Kivan has completed his vengeance against the Iron Throne; Xan has superiors awaiting his return to Evereska.
It actually makes more sense IMO to stick with companions who, at the very least, turn up in some capacity in BG2 - better that we get some more follow-through with Safana than have Alora disappear again at the end of the story, etc.
My point was, that I *hope* that non-evil characters might cherish my friendship enough to keep following me like good pu... friends ^_^ While I'm pretty sure evil chars *would* choose their goals over my friendship.
P.S. Anyways, nearly everyone will leave us at some point (to make room for the SoA starting group) so we will find out how it will be justified.. One point that makes me most curious. ^_^ I hope everyone gets a good treatment from Beamdog
I just got a private message from someone telling me that my last comment was rude. I did not mean this in a rude way AT ALL. It was just an expresion, but I'm sorry if anyone else took it the wrong way.
Comments
A couple of notes:
1. There is no story necessity that Viconia, Quayle, and others could not set up shop in Athkatla quickly
2. That CHARNAME spends only a very short time before Irenicus says "Ah the Child of Bhaal has awoken"
Open your mind a bit, a lot of these story barriers you mention are not actually barriers at all.
Spending months with Irenicus seems very unlikely as well, Charname, Imoen, Jah, and Minsc make no mention of long term torture. Khalid's body is still recognizable on the table, he hasn't been dead long. The shadow thieves state they learnt of you capture almost immediately and quickly investigated/attacked. A quick time line from capture to freedom seems obvious.
Prove it or it didn't happen
For the same reason gnaumiec suggested, time. Time has passed since BG1, evidently enough time for people who don't have Irenicus' powerful teleportation magic at their disposal to get down to the capital of a whole other country on foot/by carriage. Also, the game is naturally compressed for the sake of the player. You could arguably complete BG1 in like a week of in-game time, but we all know that it would likely take months to realistically complete the game's events.
The idea of "canon" exists whether you like it or not. It is true, that you can theoretically finish the game as quickly, or as slowly as you please, and take whomever you like along the way. That changes YOUR story, but it doesn't change the "canon" story.
This is both a good and bad thing. The freedom given to you by these games is amazing. You can play through the entire series with a despicably evil party and basically do whatever you want along the way.
That said, when you start up BG2, it is assumed that you traveled with a party of Jaheira, Minsc, Dynaheir, Khalid, and Imoen. It is implied that you traveled with all of them at least for a time, and that Imoen was actually with you when you were kidnapped by Irenicus.
As a player you have always had two options at this point. You can complain about inconsistency and demand that a 15 year old game be drastically changed, rewriting scripts, dialogue, and storyline so that you can have the party you played through BG1 with...
Or you can ignore it like we all have for 15 years. Understand that the game is fine the way it is, despite its limitations and its ideas of a "canon" party. Ignore Jaheira and Minsc in the jail cells if it makes you feel any better about it. Accept that it is in character for NPCs like Xzar and Montaron to disappear and go do their own thing. Hell, there are even mods if you can't accept that. Just play the game.
TLDR: Don't mess with 15 year old dialogue and gameplay because you can't handle a game with a story having that isn't exactly what you want it to be.
P.S. In regards to SOD gameplay. I don't really care whether characters are taken from you over the course of the game or at the end of the game. The former probably adds for a smoother storyline, while the latter would probably make some people happier.
I actually have no problem with Xzar and Montaron doing their own thing post-BG1. What I do have a problem with is having to trek through Chateau Irenicus without any party members I would actually be traveling with, or would be willing to keep afterwards. I wouldn't even necessarily need my actual BG1 party. Just give me Viconia and Shar-Teel, or Safana and Kagain. Hell, putting Viconia in the dungeon with you would solve the silliness of her being imperiled and in need of rescue a second time. Two birds, one sling ullet.
Further, the game really isn't fine the way it is. Yes, I can deal with it, I've done so dozens of times. However, the beginning of BG2 is just plain clunky and awkward. And, aside from the radness of the dungeon itself, it's just plain poorly-wrought. I'm not just going to pretend that it doesn't bother me, and while I recognize the exceedingly low odds of it happening I'm still going to hope and suggest it be amended until it does.
Until then, well, there's always Dungeon-Be-Gone, I guess. Sigh.
Besides, there could always be the option that the evil companion doesn't know that Charname has been captured as well, until they get reunited. And then it could still be a "together we have a better chance of getting out of here alive" scenario.
The thing is, those guys are not in Irenicus' dungeon because they where in your party. The Shadow Thieves aren't dumb, they tried to get you alone for the ambush. They are in the dungeon because they tried to rescue you. Imoen is loyal even to an evil protagonist. Jalhera and Dynahiar have both been following you because they have missions to keep an eye on Bhaalspawn.
You should start considering the NPCs as characters with volition of thier own, rather than robots that only do your bidding.
Who is to say that no evil companion can have a "job-related" motivation, too? Sure, there are companions that would sell you out, but not all of them. Evil doesn't equal evil. Just as examples, I am aware that some of these would contradict the story otherwise: Baeloth could be there because he is a lone drow stuck on the surface and has no other place to go, so he follows you. Tiax could be there because he is a priest of Cyric and you are a serious thread to his patron (or maybe he's just there because he's an idiot who got himself captured).
And hey, who says they need to be evil? Neutral works just as well. I bet a lot of folks would love to see Xan return and he has already proven that he is prone to getting captured (besides, he too could have gotten an assignment on keeping a personal eye on you or like it was handled in his mod for BG2, he was assigned to look into the trouble with the vampires). I don't do that and never said I did, but ok :I
And this is how it will be done: At the end of SoD the protagonist is ALONE. Imoen leads the canon party in an attempted rescue. The rescue fails and Dynahiar dies heroically.
My over all point was more about how the canon party is not necessarily more or less logical than a similar set-up with evil/ evil-ish companions. I mean, Dynaheir and co. will leave your party in BG1 if your reputation drops to low anyway if I am not mistaken, so the job-assignment can't be too important.
Any party member who shows up in SOA outside of Irenicus dungeon will need to leave your party at some point in order for it to make sense and maybe beamdog will come up with a scenario for each NPC that will allow them to disband or at least not be around when you are captured.
You could get separated from your party and stumble into the cannon party and then get ambushed. I would assume each cannon member will have a driving force that puts them in your vicinity when it all goes down. probably the shinning lady and the crusade that links the cannon members with you before the ambush. Any cannon members that are already in your party will be there and any non cannon party members will probably get separated by some event. Then you will stumble into any remaining cannon party members that you didn't already have on your team before you get ambushed by Irenicus. Just my thoughts on how it could be done.
The start of BG2 is going to be the same so there is no point in bothering with the idea of all of your SOD team members showing up in the dungeon. It's not legally possible and the intention of the Bioware team was that you are supposed to be crippled and running scared at the start of BG2. Your loss of team members was intentional to get you to try out new BG2 NPCs and mix up your party tactics. Their choice of cannon party members was not to everyone's liking but that isn't the problem. The problem is that their presence cannot be explained if you didn't travel with them in BG1. That is why beamdog simply needs to link those 5 characters to your general location when you are captured through some major event like the crusade and it will all work out in a logical way. Explaining why any non cannon party member is not present at the start of BG2 would be nice but not necessary. I think, given the rare opportunity that beamdog has, they will probably try to find a way to tie up all loose ends so that you are not left wandering what happened to non cannon NPCs like Quale for example.
Further, why would Irenicus even bother with paying off any of your compatriots when he's confident he can easily subdue you by whatever means he ends up subduing you with? Irenicus betrays everybody, so even if he did payoff your comrades, he would capture or kill them, anyway. So, bam, they end up in the cells, and when Imoen frees you suddenly you have the leverage you need to remind them who is in charge, assuming you don't just kill them. But, this never happens because they are mysteriously never there because reasons. I'm inclined to disagree that it "had" to be a fixed starting party. They could have put multiple characters in the cells so you could pick and choose. Surely, that would have been better for the characters who got weird shoehorned roles in the game, like Safana and Coran. Put them in a cell at the beginning of the game instead of having them get mauled by werewolves in a really stupid minor quest. Yes, these things are pretty much too late to change now without mods, but it's disingenuous to suggest that Bioware didn't foul up the whole thing with weird decisions that make little sense.
But, again, I'm not ignoring that they have their own agendas or have motivations of their own. But, as you point out, they have interest in power and material wealth, being Evil characters. As I've mentioned, CHARNAME was a steady supply of both even BEFORE they became the Hero of Baldur's Gate, so why not stick by her? Granted, Viconia had other goals like settling down and living in quiet contemplation of her goddess for a time, but that's only because Bioware wrote that. It's not intrinsic to her existence as a character. Bioware chose what they wrote, and in some cases they made the wrong call.
Kagain isn't going to find more profit getting 50 gold a head guarding caravans compared to CHARNAME regularly selling magical weapons and rare jewlels for hundreds and thousands of gold. Safer? Sure. More profitable? Nah.
her to turn against the pc (or anyone for that matter..).
The problem is, I can think of many reasons for characters to abandon charname, so I'm not really trusting
evil characters to keep helping me
But maybe that is jsut me
(I always understood Good = Altruistic, Evil = Egoistic, with neutral more like "nice to friends and not going
out of their way to harm or benefit the rest" )
It actually makes more sense IMO to stick with companions who, at the very least, turn up in some capacity in BG2 - better that we get some more follow-through with Safana than have Alora disappear again at the end of the story, etc.
Unless written out: maybe he hears of some long-lost family.
While I'm pretty sure evil chars *would* choose their goals over my friendship.
P.S. Anyways, nearly everyone will leave us at some point (to make room for the SoA starting group)
so we will find out how it will be justified.. One point that makes me most curious. ^_^
I hope everyone gets a good treatment from Beamdog