Would you pay Beamdog to add Baeloth to BG2?

SmilingSword

So would you?

I'm taking full NPC with a proper arc, banters and a few quests.

SmilingSword

In a second. Personally I think he was the best thing Beamdog added to BG1, I just wish there was more to him.

Aramintai

No, he's too op.

Archaos

Aramintai said:

No, he's too op.

He's just a sorcerer. And we don't have any in BG or ToB.

meagloth

Archaos said:

Aramintai said:

No, he's too op.

He's just a sorcerer. And we don't have any in BG or ToB.

His ring gives him extra spells.

FinneousPJ

Sure, but only less than 1 euro.

doggy

No not really. He is a bit too op to bring along with Edwin in an evil party.

And I think he's too busy with his latest business opportunities.

Lord_Tansheron

The last thing we need is another OP spellcaster in BG2. Also I never found him that funny even in BG1.

SmilingSword

meagloth said:

Archaos said:

Aramintai said:

No, he's too op.

He's just a sorcerer. And we don't have any in BG or ToB.

His ring gives him extra spells.

His ring isn't that powerful, it gives him 2 extra 2nd-level spells, 1 extra 3rd-level spell and 1 extra 4th-level spell. Really not a big deal for BG2.

Archaos

meagloth said:

His ring gives him extra spells.

Which can be removed in the transition, because he "lost" it somehow.

We need a Sorcerer in BG2 and Baeloth has been very well received.

Arunsun

His ring's extra spell are relevant in BG1 only. BG2 gives a ring that does the exact same and that is removable, and extra level 2 3 4 spells are barely relevant in BG2 though extremely powerful in BG1
His OPness in BG2 would be about his magic resistance more than the ring

dunbar

With the codicil that, unlike Edwin, he's available really early on in the game.

DragonKing

Don't really care, he is like Edwin for me. If I want a Sorcerer then I'll be it. If I want another mage then I'll be it. And while everyone is saying his extraspells are irrelevant, how much you want to bet that they won't keep the same affect? The ring of wizadry got changed from what it did in BG 1, I have no doubt that his rings will be scaled to level or made into another op item.

Arunsun

@DragonKing Two things tend to approve these suppositions. First, the character would already be more than decent with this ring. Second, Edwin's amulet which is much like Baeloth's ring (not removable etc...) was not modified from BG1 to BG2 (though it is immensely powerful in both whatsoever)

elminster

Actually Edwin's amulet adds 2 extra spells per level in BG2 compared to one extra spell in BG1.

meagloth

Id be fine with bealoth in bg2 actually, but I wouldn't want them to change their storylines on account of us. It'd feel a little sell-outish.

Nimran

I don't know, I've never used the guy before.

Kamigoroshi

Eh... I'd be more interested in paying for a non-drow, non-core race NPC in BGII:EE. Like for example a Cyclope Diviner, Drider Bard, Centaur Paladin, Bariaur Swashbuckler, or Mind Flayer Barbarian. The more monstrous in appearance, the better.

DragonKing

Arunsun said:

@DragonKing Two things tend to approve these suppositions. First, the character would already be more than decent with this ring. Second, Edwin's amulet which is much like Baeloth's ring (not removable etc...) was not modified from BG1 to BG2 (though it is immensely powerful in both whatsoever)

What did Edwin's amulet have to do with what I said? But based on the WIKI his amulet has been changed like elminster said.

http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Edwin_Odesseiron

With that said, like i said, i don't doubt that they would change the rings to something even more op. I tend to be among the few who like the fact that there is no Sorcerer npc companion, makes me feel special.

Edit, but my point was I wouldn't care if he got added or not, I wouldn't use him simply because I prefer to be the caster, hell I prefer being a wild mage over use edwin. Hey edwin guess what I can do that you can't, use every/any damn spell in my spell book in one fight! Constantly restore my spells by any means I wish in one fight! I don't even have level 1 spells, I have level ALL spells! Omnilevel spells bitch, now suck it!

Hey if I turn myself into a girl, I can turn myaelf right back... Maybe...

Arunsun

@DragonKing Unless I am mistaken, Edwin's amulet modification is counterbalanced by the fact he no longer gets the bonus spell from conjurer specialization, which in the end is the exact same as if he had the bonus spell from specialization and the BG1 amulet. He does not get 3 extra spells per level. And my point was that they would not have no reason to modify the ring, at least to preserve balance, and in a way, this ring is similar to Baeloth's ring.
Whatever, the point on which we disagree is that you are happy with no Sorcerer companion, while I find it a pity. Ok, Sorcerer is a very roleplay class for Charname with all that innate thing etc..., but you do not even MEET a single sorcerer in BG2. I mean, you become quite famous and meet a lot of powerful people, and yet no sorcerer. Bhaalspawn are certainly not the only innately skilled people in the Realms.

However, I would also love playing with a new Dragon disciple mate, let's say some Firkraag son or something like that.

DragonKing

Arunsun said:

@DragonKing Unless I am mistaken, Edwin's amulet modification is counterbalanced by the fact he no longer gets the bonus spell from conjurer specialization, which in the end is the exact same as if he had the bonus spell from specialization and the BG1 amulet.

Whether or not that was the purpose of the change, fact of the matter is that the amulet was still modified which contradicts what you said.

Arunsun said:

Was not modified from BG1 to BG2

A modification to balance another modification is still a modification, a change none the less. With that said I know nothing of Edwin being modified to not get a spellslot for being a conjurer so I have no real comment on that other then saying it sounds like a pointless changed if the results are the same as bg1.

Arunsun said:

He does not get 3 extra spells per level. And my point was that they would not have no reason to modify the ring, at least to preserve balance, and in a way, this ring is similar to Baeloth's ring.

Did they have a reason to modify edwin they way you stated? No I'm not being sarcastic or patronizing here, this is a genuine question.

Arunsun said:

Whatever, the point on which we disagree is that you are happy with no Sorcerer companion, while I find it a pity. Ok, Sorcerer is a very roleplay class for Charname with all that innate thing etc..., but you do not even MEET a single sorcerer in BG2. I mean, you become quite famous and meet a lot of powerful people, and yet no sorcerer. Bhaalspawn are certainly not the only innately skilled people in the Realms.

The way they played wild mage makes it seem it feel that very role with the wild surges, so arguably Neera fills the role of another character with innate powers. I'm not against a Sorcerer being added, I just wouldn't care if one was or wasn't and that's not taking into account that I fucking hate beoloth!

Arunsun said:

However, I would also love playing with a new Dragon disciple mate, let's say some Firkraag son or something like that.

I would rather have a actual Dragon as a companion, if anything I would like to see less humanoid companions. A young Dragon, hell even a singuin (I so botched that spelling) would be nice. Or, a eye tyrant!!! I mean come on ones you reach ToB there are even liches who don't want to fight you because it knows you're powerful I don't see charname actually gaining a none mortal follower as outside of his bounds. We get a vampire even before we know how powerful we really are, give me a lich companion!

Heck I would be happy just to have a half Dragon or even a Dragon form for the Dragon desciple spell.

Arunsun

@DragonKing I really do not get why they modified Edwin this way either since the result is the same. Maybe for debugging purpose or giving to enemies so that they get more spellshots or something but these are mere random guess. Roleplay purpose maybe, since if I am well informed, Red Wizard supposedly give up 2 schools for additionnal two spells, and engine limitation would prevent giving up that second school.
Yeah indeed the amulet was modified but since it is bound to Edwin and in the end the character was not modified.
By the way, the big problem about big companions (Eye tyrant or dragon) is that they cannot go through some places, building doors coming as the most annoying of these places.

O_Bruce

Baeloth:
1. He has the class I dislike for a concept.
2. He is too OP.
3. He is a Drow, a race I don't see why people love and credit so much.
4. He was a little extra after BG:EE was delayed. Too bad I am not fond of him.

DragonKing

Arunsun said:

@DragonKing I really do not get why they modified Edwin this way either since the result is the same. Maybe for debugging purpose or giving to enemies so that they get more spellshots or something but these are mere random guess. Roleplay purpose maybe, since if I am well informed, Red Wizard supposedly give up 2 schools for additionnal two spells, and engine limitation would prevent giving up that second school.
Yeah indeed the amulet was modified but since it is bound to Edwin and in the end the character was not modified.

You are literally changing what you're saying. You just said Edwin was modified, now you're saying the character wasn't modified.

The end result wasn't the is the same, but fact of the matter is the item itself WAS modified.

If I do a charcoal drawing with generals charcoal pencil, and I come back at a later date, pick up some of the charcoal lines and go back ontop of the recently removes lines with Derwent charcoal pencil and get the exact same result. I modified how I got to that result but the result is still the same. If someone ask me how did I get to this result and what tools did I use, I put a line down picked it back up and put it back with a different pencil, bit nothing changed.

That's exactly what's happening here, Edwin got more spells one way in BG1, but the programmers came back and changed the coding on how he achieved the exact same results a different ways, so he was modified! Just because the modification didn't change the surface, doesn't nulify the fact he was modified.

No one here is saying the end result changed, but how the game got to that end result DID in fact change.

Arunsun said:

By the way, the big problem about big companions (Eye tyrant or dragon) is that they cannot go through some places, building doors coming as the most annoying of these places.

I think you're down looking that fact that this is a roleplaying game honestly. One based on a fantasy world with over the top magic. There are multiple role playing reasons for a companion eye tyrant to be alot smaller then a regular one. If real life is any depiction, we may have a general estimate for weight and height of humans and animals, but not every animal of its species fita those general numbers.

As far a dragons go, every Dragon I've encountered was a shapeahifter las I checked and almost all but about three them showed themselves off as either a powerful caster or warrior before forcing us to fight them in their draconic form, that problem solved itself right there.

elminster

Arunsun said:

@DragonKing Unless I am mistaken, Edwin's amulet modification is counterbalanced by the fact he no longer gets the bonus spell from conjurer specialization, which in the end is the exact same as if he had the bonus spell from specialization and the BG1 amulet. He does not get 3 extra spells per level.

He gets +2 bonus spells from the amulet on top of his bonus spell from mage specialization. So compared to Nalia or Imoen (if they were at the same level) he could have 3 more spells memorized at each spell level.

DragonKing

elminster said:

Arunsun said:

@DragonKing Unless I am mistaken, Edwin's amulet modification is counterbalanced by the fact he no longer gets the bonus spell from conjurer specialization, which in the end is the exact same as if he had the bonus spell from specialization and the BG1 amulet. He does not get 3 extra spells per level.

He gets +2 bonus spells from the amulet on top of his bonus spell from mage specialization. So compared to Nalia or Imoen (if they were at the same level) he could have 3 more spells memorized at each spell level.

So he actually does get the bonus spell from being a conjurer? Then that makes this whole or at least half of this discussion mute since the surface is also modify. What Arunsun was telling me was he didn't get the spell slot from being a conjurer which is why the amulet was edited, which makes no freaking sense to me.

Edit

O_Bruce said:

Baeloth:
1. He has the class I dislike for a concept.
2. He is too OP.
3. He is fanservice for drow fetishists.
4. He was a little extra after BG:EE was delayed. Too bad I am not fond of him.

Really? That number 3, just really?

I also don't understand the hatred towards the concept of Sorcerer, can you please explain that one to me?

O_Bruce

@DragonKing
About number 3, it's my opinion. You have yours and let's end it at that.

About Sorcerer class.... Mage is someone who is studying arcane learning and expanding his own knowledge. Hence, mage can cast spells. Sorcerer, on the other hand, is born with that ability. His innate powers enables him to cast spells identical to a mage, but without stuydying or anything like that, which is silly by itself. And I dislike the concept of "innate talent is equal to years of hard work", which is exactly what Sorceror is about. Also, gameplay-wise, there is little to none of disadvantages for Sorcerers if you beaten the game just once, since you know exactly what spells to pick.

Dee

To be fair, the statement "he is fanservice for drow fetishists" is an opinion, but it also denigrates anyone who might like drow for legitimate reasons, which makes it a good bit more antagonistic.

(The short version: "In my opinion you suck" is not in any way better than "you suck". Your friendly internet civility lesson of the day!)

O_Bruce

Well, I dare for disagree. If someone likes Drows for legitimate reasons, he/she should not feel offended at the statement, since it's not directed at them. I'll edit it, thought.

Nonnahswriter

I'm sorry, but why must one have a "legitimate reason" to like the drow? Why can't they just have a regular reason, or better yet, no reason at all?

I like drow because I like elves and I especially like evil elves. Does that make my reason for liking them more or less "legitimate" than someone else's?

DragonKing

I hate the elves, but I like the Drow, I love how they are literally a slap in the face to the overused cliche that most fantasy stories love attaching to them. Really, the whole culture is basically this to me, "how far away can we get from n J.R.R. Tolkien," and I love it.


Now if only they weren't elves, that would be even better

the contradiction is powerful in this one.