Bhaalspawn Lore to be addressed in SoD?

miker60

Obviously we are all here for our love of the BG series but lets be honest: the lore surrounding Bhaal and the Bhaalpawn is not strongly addressed for the majority of BG1.

While the revelation of your heritage is foreshadowed throughout the game, but the actual meaning of your legacy is only explored in BG2.

It seems to me SoD is aiming to build a stronger foundation regarding the meaning of your heritage before you end up in Amn. I'm basing this speculation on the following: Two of the areas revealed on the official website: The Fallen Temple of Bhaal and Boareskyr Bridge both seem to have ties to Bhaal. The description of the Shining Lady implies she may be a Bhaalspawn or at least have some people convinced she is one.

That being said: what lore questions of people eager to see explored? What unanswered questions about your legacy are story fodder?

My speculation: The Shining Lady is not, after all a Bhaalspawn (save the battle among Bhaalspawn for ToB) but is instead a Cyric-spawn. You will have a chance to avenge/answer for your fathers defeat by confronting her and her father's legacy.

Alexisisinneed

I just want a climatic battle to take place on that bridge. About that shining lady I think she is the villian in Dark alliance the console game that is not to be mention. It would explain why the dukes in Baldur's gate want you to go stop her crusade so badly.

dockaboomski

I want to see companion reactions on you being a Bhaalspawn. Again, nobody in the original game says anything, and it's old news in BG2. So I want to see how Tiax, everybody's well-known Cyricist, would take to travelling with a Bhaalspawn. Or how some of the cleric people react. Something along those lines, really.

Arcalian

The Shining Lady might be Mellisan, shepherding you along the path she wants you to go....

shawne

Arcalian said:

The Shining Lady might be Mellisan, shepherding you along the path she wants you to go....

One would hope otherwise - the EEs have enough bosses that can't be beaten for lore reasons, no need to add another.

JuliusBorisov

I would like to hear more about Imoen's parents. Maybe take her Bhaalspawn's line and put it into SoD.

Sertorius

bengoshi said:

I would like to hear more about Imoen's parents. Maybe take her Bhaalspawn's line and put it into SoD.

Wouldn't that be a bit hard, since you do not learn she is a bhaalspawn untill Irenicus reveals it?

Arcanis

Sertorius said:

bengoshi said:

I would like to hear more about Imoen's parents. Maybe take her Bhaalspawn's line and put it into SoD.

Wouldn't that be a bit hard, since you do not learn she is a bhaalspawn untill Irenicus reveals it?

One reason more to have a SoD-like add-on between SoA and ToB *_*

brunardo

Probably a blackguard of some kind

1130210

I would love to see some sort of flashback or some sort of story-type narrative of the battle that took place between Cyric and Bhaal on that bridge! That would be sooooo epic.

Perhaps some other lore I would like addressed is a greater semblance to your past with Imoen. It kinda reminds me of those stupid movies and the cliche "we've only known these characters for a half-an-hour why should anyone care about their past together!?" Only, in contrast, players have known Imoen through like a 100 hour campaign or whatever.

There is an empty void of dialogue missing from BGI that I would REALLY like to be built upon in SoD, mostly because Imoen isn't a cackling mess.

It could be very beneficial to have some moments where they speak a little bit about their past at Candlekeep. They talk about it a little in BGII, but Imoen is just a garbled mess through like 65% of the game.

EDIT: Sorry for the edit but, here's a BIIIGGG one. Let's have a LITTLE (emphasis on the little so that no spoilers) indication on Imoen's nature, enough so that most won't know what the game is referring to but enough so that those who look will see and know.

brunardo

Agreed @1130210

deltago

I have missed the letter that says you're a bhaal spawn so many times in my playthroughs that I think it needs to be emphasized more somewhere.

ForgottenMyth

the entire backstory is laid out in Sarevok's Diary, though i believe you find out from Elminster first.

Korbu

1130210 said:

I would love to see some sort of flashback or some sort of story-type narrative of the battle that took place between Cyric and Bhaal on that bridge! That would be sooooo epic.

It really wasn't much of a battle. If i remember correctly (been awhile since i've read the Avatar Trilogy), Bhaal was preoccupied with something else when Cyric snuck up on him and stabbed him in the back with a shortsword that was actually the avatar of Mask.

Yep, just reread that part in "Waterdeep". Bhaal was preoccupied with talking to Midnight (whom later became Mystra, the same one that Cyric killed which caused the Spellplague), trying to get her to give up the Tablet of Fate, when Cyric snuck up to within 2 feet of Bhaal, and when Bhaal whirled around in alarm when he realized it, Cyric stabbed him in the chest with the red shortsword (Mask's avatar) and killed him.

Grum

So Bhaal got murdered? Seems like cyric earned that portfolio to me.

GemHound

@Grum Yes, Bhaal was Murdered by Cyric.

@deltago The only way you can see it or any of the floors above the Iron Throne Merchants is by kiting a watcher I've found. Is there another way to gain access to those floors? I ask since even if I go nowhere near Reiltar a Watcher is on the next floor waiting to take me to prison.

Korbu

Grum said:

So Bhaal got murdered? Seems like cyric earned that portfolio to me.

Cyric is probably losing that portfolio though, since Bhaal is coming back during the Sundering.

Chippy

Could do something with Kazgaroth. My character might be willing to lose a hand, or keep it all the way to TOB and practice it on a certain wimpy teleporting prat.
Actually that wouldn't really work would it...

Bigfish

I imagine you'll basically start off the hero of Baldur's Gate, you'll deal with this whole Dragonspear thing, during which your lineage as a child of Bhaal comes to light as public knowledge, and you are kindly asked to leave so you stop sowing chaos in your passing. At which point, you are ambushed in the night and carted off to Irenicus's dungeon.

I'm thinking there may be a trial of some sort near the end of the game where a bunch of character witnesses come out and praise/condemn you before the arch dukes decide to banish you/strongly suggest you go somewhere else, at which point Khalid, Jaheira, and Imoen accompany you because they are your stalwart allies/they want to keep an eye on you. Maybe something similar to the trial in Chrono Trigger where little things through out the game are used as evidence for or against you, but I'm a sucker for courtroom drama.

Hudzy

That would be pretty good actually. I love the court scene in Neverwinter Nights 2.

Fardragon

"I am the Lore!"

Korbu

Bigfish said:

I imagine you'll basically start off the hero of Baldur's Gate, you'll deal with this whole Dragonspear thing, during which your lineage as a child of Bhaal comes to light as public knowledge, and you are kindly asked to leave so you stop sowing chaos in your passing. At which point, you are ambushed in the night and carted off to Irenicus's dungeon.

Canonically, the Bhaalspawn (Abdel Adrian) became a Duke of Baldur's Gate.

Bigfish

Korbu said:

Canonically, the Bhaalspawn (Abdel Adrian) became a Duke of Baldur's Gate.

That all happens after SoD and Baldur's Gate 2, if you believe such ridiculous tales.

Pantalion

miker60 said:

That being said: what lore questions of people eager to see explored? What unanswered questions about your legacy are story fodder?

Perhaps it's old hat, but the Bhaalspawn's ageing issue is probably the #1 curiosity about Bhaalspawn for me. Unless you're a halfling, half-elf or human, you're practically a newborn of your race, far too young to be out and about in the world, and Bhaalspawn half-dragons can reach maturity and breed children who have also reached maturity, all since the time of troubles? Even elven Charnames, who are barely considered sapient before their 75th birthday, are potentially as eloquent and mature as any other.

Secondly would be what being a Bhaalspawn does to a person. Consider that in two short years you not only amass phenomenal cosmic power, you bring potentially twenty-two people that the Bhaalspawn can bring with them from "highly skilled adventurer" level 9 to "there are approximately fifteen people at this level on the entire planet and they spent their long, artificially extended, lives getting there" level 30+.

So does the Bhaalspawn act as a delimiter for those around them? If not, and they keep accumulating power at the same rate, then forget claiming their birthright, mage CHARNAMEs could be ascending to divinity Vecna style. If simply being around a Bhaalspawn is enough to let the ones that survive progress into new heights of power is that why others flock to their banners in ToB? Are they all hoping for that Bhaalspawn boost? And if it does, then is that limit retroactive? Is the Bhaalspawn who abandons their taint dooming themselves and their party to a life of mediocrity, robbed of their power and forced to become a "mortal" level 20?

It's obviously not something that can be covered fully in SoD, but I'd be interested to see at least some of this explored or at least touched upon in the story.

Mikey205

I hope for more exposition around dragonspear and growing manifestations of the taint via dreams. Id like to roleplay some reaction to the taint since it wasnt really examined in BG:EE (not even with npc project mostly) and the bhaal spawn has really only recently learnt of their hetitage. The stuff of gods power is more ToBs territory. At this point it should be coming to terms via delight or horror and learning about Bhaal.

CamDawg

GemHound said:

The only way you can see it or any of the floors above the Iron Throne Merchants is by kiting a watcher I've found. Is there another way to gain access to those floors? I ask since even if I go nowhere near Reiltar a Watcher is on the next floor waiting to take me to prison.

Unless you kill the Iron Throne leaders you should only need to kite the top level with Tethoril and Ulraunt.

1130210 said:

It could be very beneficial to have some moments where they speak a little bit about their past at Candlekeep. They talk about it a little in BGII, but Imoen is just a garbled mess through like 65% of the game.

Imoen gets jobbed in SoA in terms of dialogue because the original plan was for her to die in Spellhold. My understanding is that the plot change occurred late and they never went back and wrote any post-Spellhold dialogue for her save the major plot points e.g. Bodhi, Tree of Life, etc. She has no banter at all and her mainline dialogue file in SoA is something like 50 lines. By comparison, Minsc has ~100 and ~250 respectively, and even The World's Most Boring Shapeshifter has ~100/150.

Reven

A little bit more lore and insight into Bhaal and his goals would be great. Even if it's just a short scene of the group going over the events of BG and questioning if any of it can be true or not.

Also there is never enough Imoen dialog in the world.

Mikey205

It would be nice to have some dialogue with companions looking back at BG1. There's a lot that happens, and BG2 doesn't really focus on it, understandably. I would definitely like to see some growth with Imoen (she seems a lot less immature in BG2). NPC project kind of does it slightly (e.g. There's a dialogue where you can pretend to be paranoid that Jaheira and Khalid might have known all along and the Dynaheir romance creates a lot of foreshadowing and then goes into it a bit once all is revealed).

Lifat

Mikey205 said:

It would be nice to have some dialogue with companions looking back at BG1. There's a lot that happens, and BG2 doesn't really focus on it, understandably. I would definitely like to see some growth with Imoen (she seems a lot less immature in BG2). NPC project kind of does it slightly (e.g. There's a dialogue where you can pretend to be paranoid that Jaheira and Khalid might have known all along and the Dynaheir romance creates a lot of foreshadowing and then goes into it a bit once all is revealed).

I'd love that aswell, but I fear that it might fall into the category of beamdog not being allowed to change any of the original content. (not sure here, just wondering). Doesn't mean that they couldn't do it for their own original characters of course... At least we can dream about that.
Of course, in the long run I'd really like beamdog to turn a profit. Both because I think they deserve it, and because I have a faint hope that they might continue to make more games for us in this same style if they do make a profit.

Korbu

Pantalion said:

miker60 said:

That being said: what lore questions of people eager to see explored? What unanswered questions about your legacy are story fodder?

Perhaps it's old hat, but the Bhaalspawn's ageing issue is probably the #1 curiosity about Bhaalspawn for me. Unless you're a halfling, half-elf or human, you're practically a newborn of your race, far too young to be out and about in the world, and Bhaalspawn half-dragons can reach maturity and breed children who have also reached maturity, all since the time of troubles? Even elven Charnames, who are barely considered sapient before their 75th birthday, are potentially as eloquent and mature as any other.

Yeah, it's pretty interesting. Especially considering Abdel Adrian was a Human, yet he lived well over a century, merely appearing to be in his 60s at that point, yet was still as physically fit and strong as he'd even been.

Gloomfrost

Alexisisinneed said:

About that shining lady I think she is the villian in Dark alliance the console game ...

Chris Avellone WAS the Designer on Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and BG DID bring him over for his input on SoD, so you might have a point there OP.