This experience and the similarity of project makes Beamdog the PERFECT candidate for modifying and releasing BG2:EE.
"Its painfull to see people lacking skills "enchanting" something you love and wish to keep great."
Speaking of Painful...the word you're looking for is "enhancing" not "enchanting". I doubt waving a magic wand has anything to do with the software development they're doing...though I'm sure it's something they'd try if they thought it'd help them.
And your argument holds no water, a BG2:EE release can't do anything to the original BG2 which will remain available on GOG.com in a perfectly playable state despite what Beamdog does with it.
That was just a Dragon Age reference... Enchantment!
If they do BG2 no other company will do it. So yes, if they touch it, it's done for.
Damn, you guys are crazy. Maybe spend less time on these forums and more with your family? Seriously fellas, life's too short to be arguing with random ass people that you will never see or actually speak to. Just my two cents.
I think people take everything too personal here.
And it's like... if you don't agree with me and love beamdog and overhaul job you are a moronic troll.
Guys there is white, there is black and... guess what ??? THERE IS GRAY TOO!
My wild guess....the Friday iOS build worked fine ( hence submitted - apple releases all kinds of buggy stuff...app store big fix updates are perpetual as with Windows...) but violated some kind of Apple coding rule, which Beamdog must now find a workaround for.
Folks, there is nothing unprofessional about working hard to fix complex problems. Beamdog: keep calm, take your coffee breaks. You've got a perennial hit on your hands that people will enjoy for years to come thanks to your hard work.
Just because people are on two extremes doesn't mean the truth is in the middle. That is a logical fallacy. You are complaining that beamdog is going to doom a game that is already out . You can and always will be able to buy BG2 in it's original state. Right now.
I registered simply to say that I'm thrilled there's going to be an iPad/tablet version. I wish there were more great untethered games out there, since I often travel in places with poor or no network connection. I only recently learned about BGEE coming out on the iPad, and I await it with eager anticipation. I can sympathize with those who are upset by the delays. Lost hope is a horrible thing. But the fact that so many people have waited with great hope is fantastic. These guys tackled an enormous project. Reworking old code is so much more difficult than managing new code. And porting it to multiple platforms? Wow! Ambitious. Yeah, they screwed up by setting unachievable expectations. But they thought they could achieve them, and I'm happy they bit off a big project like this, even if it was more than they could chew in one bite. It's taking on big monster goals like this that creates something wonderful. So chew a little more, folks. Release it as soon as you can. And hopefully there will just be niggling, annoying bugs that can be patched as the huge user community finds them.
Oh yeah...
I'm as impatient as the next guy and I want my game now!
So is this thing getting released this week or not?
Geesh, it sounds like Apple is being a pain, but c'mon are there really supposed to be game-stopping bugs in an app that was supposed to be released a week ago? Trying to control expectations...and patience.
I registered simply to say that I'm thrilled there's going to be an iPad/tablet version. I wish there were more great untethered games out there, since I often travel in places with poor or no network connection. I only recently learned about BGEE coming out on the iPad, and I await it with eager anticipation. I can sympathize with those who are upset by the delays. Lost hope is a horrible thing. But the fact that so many people have waited with great hope is fantastic. These guys tackled an enormous project. Reworking old code is so much more difficult than managing new code. And porting it to multiple platforms? Wow! Ambitious. Yeah, they screwed up by setting unachievable expectations. But they thought they could achieve them, and I'm happy they bit off a big project like this, even if it was more than they could chew in one bite. It's taking on big monster goals like this that creates something wonderful. So chew a little more, folks. Release it as soon as you can. And hopefully there will just be niggling, annoying bugs that can be patched as the huge user community finds them.
Oh yeah...
I'm as impatient as the next guy and I want my game now!
First time poster, long time reader. I registered simply to agree with cardinalflyer. Ok not really, but I couldn't have worded how I feel in a better way.
Maybe my expectations are not as high as some of you. I simply want to enjoy bgee on my iPad. So far Trent has been quite open about the development of bgee. Because of this I have faith in the team to pull this one off. Maybe this week, maybe next week, we'll see. We have no other choice than to be patient.
While I was disappointed with the delay, I've waited for years for some rumour or development on BG and so will happily wait until it is ready if it means I get to play an updated version with the potential future of BG2 etc then I will. All of which should bring a new lease of life back into the game!
Patience is a virtue, no iOS user has actually bought anything yet so are not paying customers (who would scream blue murder if it released buggy). It will be done when its done!
Im not angry that it isnt out yet, the fact i check this forum more than once a day hoping to see the game is out shows how eager i am, i am disappointed (in geneal not at the team making this happen) that i have to wait.....Still it will be worth it.
I'm so looking forward to the iPad & OS X versions; of course the delays are disappointing, but I'd much prefer they do it right, and fix the bugs, rather than releasing a buggy mess.
I can't imagine how stressed-out & knackered they all are right now.........hope they've got some cold ones lined-up for when its done. :-)
I would add that those worried for whatever reason over BG2 should remember that BG:EE will work out the bugs relating to touchscreen issues and the BG2 system(since that's what BG:EE uses). So creating BG2 will be more about recreating the assets than the entire backbone structure of the game.
Cut these guys some slack. yeah I'm itching to start playing as soon as too, I even wanted to take it in holiday with me so I could play around the pool when it was supposed to be released at the end of september, but getting annoyed with them won't make it any faster.
Itll be along in a few days I guess, so get making some portraits to use in the meantime, or play something else for a bit.
@Reignmaker there aren't supposed to be show-stopping bugs EVER. Release date doesn't matter.
Doesn't mean they don't happen... with depressing frequency.
"Supposed to be"? Is the the appropriate way to think about it?
Software development is not easy. You only know how long something will really take when it is done. Companies with far more developers to assign to fix last minute bugs often delay releases due to major problems. Look at Bioshock Infinite.
There is a justification for some companies not announcing products until they are ready to go to market. They avoid this entire problem of creating expectations. But to do that, you have to be a successful enough company to have people's ears. Smaller companies need any PR they can get to sell units ASAP after release to make payroll.
I wouldn't take posts to seriously though since complaints represent a small percentage of people interested in the game. As always, angry people tend to post more than others when there is something to complain about.
I understand that development isn't easy. I used to work in digital shop where the deliverables were just as unpredictable. At times the weight of the project would be on just a handful of people or on some sign-off. That being said, when deadlines continue to be missed it's disappointing for everyone: the team, the customers, the partners, etc. You don't just throw out delivery dates and then treat them as some arbitrary target. When they're missed, it's a big deal.
I'm not bashing the team, and I know patience is a virtue (God knows I'll wait) - but the whole "don't cry, it'll be finished when it's finished" mentality is indicative of someone who doesn't understand how product development and distribution works. My two cents.
"@MishalAdamjee I think the lesson I've learned recently is don't say dates until you have 100% confidence in them. I'm not there yet."
I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.
Congratulations to this community for taking a company that was tweeting regularly about status, releases and process and turning them into what the statement above means.
Another company afraid to communicate with their customers.
If you have posted on this board with statements talking about them missing the release dates, being incompetent for missing releases, or anything of this nature this is YOUR fault.
YOU caused this lack of communication. YOU are the ones to blame when you don't get the information you want as quickly as you want it.
When is the human race going to get as smart as the rest of the animal kingdom and realize we should stop shitting in our own nests.
"@MishalAdamjee I think the lesson I've learned recently is don't say dates until you have 100% confidence in them. I'm not there yet."
I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.
Congratulations to this community for taking a company that was tweeting regularly about status, releases and process and turning them into what the statement above means.
Another company afraid to communicate with their customers.
If you have posted on this board with statements talking about them missing the release dates, being incompetent for missing releases, or anything of this nature this is YOUR fault.
YOU caused this lack of communication. YOU are the ones to blame when you don't get the information you want as quickly as you want it.
When is the human race going to get as smart as the rest of the animal kingdom and realize we should stop shitting in our own nests.
--Illydth
Lol. Or maybe he has just realized the obvious, as he says. Missing release dates makes them look bad, so don't tweet that shit. I really don't think a few whiners on the forum are the sole reason for this realization. And it isn't the grandiose backsliding of humanity you describe. It's professionalism, and respect for the nature of the beast. It'll be out when it's out. We don't need to know the updates and progress on every build and submission.
The above twitter comment was in response to me - if you look at my follow up, I commended the team for their hard work and effort.
I am a huge RPG fan, my wife wants to shoot me half the time, but there's nothing better than an immersive world and freedom. However, I've never played BG because every time I try and start, the crappy res and bugs kill it dead for me (no, I am not used to Mods, and I use a Mac and I have for 12 years), since my first year at UNC Chapel Hill. I love that I can now (or soon) take this game on the road with me on my iPad.
The way I see it is this: Trent and his team have put a great deal of work and effort into this game, and I'm sure a great deal of their money and time - they need our support. I don't know about you guys, but I want to see BG2EE in great shape, PSTEE down the line, and hopefully BG2
These guys are doing something brilliant - they're exposing a generation a of gamers like me, who've always admired the game from afar, and make it accessible. Of course there are going to be issues, that take a couple of weeks to resolve. GUYS! as other people have mentioned, this is a 14 year old game - what a couple of weeks here and there?
Very rarely have I seen a company be so open and transparent with their customers, esp as they didn't take preorders for Mac/iOS, and have no reason to talk to us. Kudos to Trent, Cameron, and the whole team. Keep up the good work, give us a game your proud of whenever its ready, and bring on more of the same in the future.
I'll admit, I was frustrated when the deadline passed, and I refreshed this forum more often than I'd have liked. However, upon reflection, I understand where Beamdog is coming from. And then I realized how behemoths like EA treat fans like dirt (I'm still smarting over ME3, and it's no coincidence that the 2 doctors left soon after).
I'm excited because these guys are the brains behind some of the best games ever made. So give them some support, give them some encouragement - these guys are working hard for us. As Arsene Wenger has said recently (I'm paraphrasing) "The way the world is now has made us a more emotional society. Every word is picked on immediately and analysed. Whereas we were a rational society, we are now an emotional one, reacting immediately without rationality"
So Trent, Beamdog Team - from my side, and I'm sure from many others, GOOD WORK! THANKS! AND KEEP IT UP. It'll be ready when its ready, and I'm sure it'll be great. If people want to not buy it because its a week late, that's their choice, but if we stop supporting indie devs who undertake massive projects like this, then we deserve to play crap FPS clones till Kingdom come.
@Reignmaker there aren't supposed to be show-stopping bugs EVER. Release date doesn't matter.
Doesn't mean they don't happen... with depressing frequency.
"Supposed to be"? Is the the appropriate way to think about it?
Software development is not easy. You only know how long something will really take when it is done. Companies with far more developers to assign to fix last minute bugs often delay releases due to major problems. Look at Bioshock Infinite.
There is a justification for some companies not announcing products until they are ready to go to market. They avoid this entire problem of creating expectations. But to do that, you have to be a successful enough company to have people's ears. Smaller companies need any PR they can get to sell units ASAP after release to make payroll.
I wouldn't take posts to seriously though since complaints represent a small percentage of people interested in the game. As always, angry people tend to post more than others when there is something to complain about.
@davemo I think you pretty much got the thrust of my comment, which alas appears to have been unclear. But to try and reiterate it more clearly: There aren't ever supposed to be show-stoppers, but they happen anyway. It's not a matter of how good your programmers are, it's a matter of how difficult software development is. Worse yet, games are amongst the most complex and difficult pieces of software in existence, with hundreds of interconnecting parts, and each one of those parts consists itself of hundreds of interconnected components. (If it weren't for the possibility of grammatical in-clarity, I'd have deliberately used the recursive form and avoided the synonym 'components' for 'parts' there)
@Illydth Lambasting people doesn't change reality, and (alas) the reality is that giving a release date you don't meet is damaging to your company. It's a game of perceptions, and those don't respond to logic. It sucks, but even if he gave a nice generic 'Hrm, I think we may have this bug fixed by Monday', as soon as they miss even ONE such deadline, they're in a world of hurt. Giving official release dates and missing them hurts your reputation, and people take anything he says as an 'official' announcement... and that's just not fair.
Comments
If they do BG2 no other company will do it. So yes, if they touch it, it's done for.
And it's like... if you don't agree with me and love beamdog and overhaul job you are a moronic troll.
Guys there is white, there is black and... guess what ??? THERE IS GRAY TOO!
Folks, there is nothing unprofessional about working hard to fix complex problems. Beamdog: keep calm, take your coffee breaks. You've got a perennial hit on your hands that people will enjoy for years to come thanks to your hard work.
You. Are. Wrong. Welcome to the internet, buddy
These guys tackled an enormous project. Reworking old code is so much more difficult than managing new code. And porting it to multiple platforms? Wow! Ambitious. Yeah, they screwed up by setting unachievable expectations. But they thought they could achieve them, and I'm happy they bit off a big project like this, even if it was more than they could chew in one bite. It's taking on big monster goals like this that creates something wonderful. So chew a little more, folks. Release it as soon as you can. And hopefully there will just be niggling, annoying bugs that can be patched as the huge user community finds them.
Oh yeah...
I'm as impatient as the next guy and I want my game now!
Geesh, it sounds like Apple is being a pain, but c'mon are there really supposed to be game-stopping bugs in an app that was supposed to be released a week ago? Trying to control expectations...and patience.
Maybe my expectations are not as high as some of you. I simply want to enjoy bgee on my iPad. So far Trent has been quite open about the development of bgee. Because of this I have faith in the team to pull this one off. Maybe this week, maybe next week, we'll see. We have no other choice than to be patient.
Doesn't mean they don't happen... with depressing frequency.
As long as we're cooking by Friday, Shar will be pleased.
I can't imagine how stressed-out & knackered they all are right now.........hope they've got some cold ones lined-up for when its done. :-)
Itll be along in a few days I guess, so get making some portraits to use in the meantime, or play something else for a bit.
Software development is not easy. You only know how long something will really take when it is done. Companies with far more developers to assign to fix last minute bugs often delay releases due to major problems. Look at Bioshock Infinite.
There is a justification for some companies not announcing products until they are ready to go to market. They avoid this entire problem of creating expectations. But to do that, you have to be a successful enough company to have people's ears. Smaller companies need any PR they can get to sell units ASAP after release to make payroll.
I wouldn't take posts to seriously though since complaints represent a small percentage of people interested in the game. As always, angry people tend to post more than others when there is something to complain about.
I'm not bashing the team, and I know patience is a virtue (God knows I'll wait) - but the whole "don't cry, it'll be finished when it's finished" mentality is indicative of someone who doesn't understand how product development and distribution works. My two cents.
"@MishalAdamjee I think the lesson I've learned recently is don't say dates until you have 100% confidence in them. I'm not there yet."
I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.
Congratulations to this community for taking a company that was tweeting regularly about status, releases and process and turning them into what the statement above means.
Another company afraid to communicate with their customers.
If you have posted on this board with statements talking about them missing the release dates, being incompetent for missing releases, or anything of this nature this is YOUR fault.
YOU caused this lack of communication. YOU are the ones to blame when you don't get the information you want as quickly as you want it.
When is the human race going to get as smart as the rest of the animal kingdom and realize we should stop shitting in our own nests.
--Illydth
Whitout hate... But all your post are SO LONG
.. And so full of anger.
Relax. We love this game. We love this team. But we are impatient
It'll be out when it's out. We don't need to know the updates and progress on every build and submission.
I am a huge RPG fan, my wife wants to shoot me half the time, but there's nothing better than an immersive world and freedom. However, I've never played BG because every time I try and start, the crappy res and bugs kill it dead for me (no, I am not used to Mods, and I use a Mac and I have for 12 years), since my first year at UNC Chapel Hill. I love that I can now (or soon) take this game on the road with me on my iPad.
The way I see it is this: Trent and his team have put a great deal of work and effort into this game, and I'm sure a great deal of their money and time - they need our support. I don't know about you guys, but I want to see BG2EE in great shape, PSTEE down the line, and hopefully BG2
These guys are doing something brilliant - they're exposing a generation a of gamers like me, who've always admired the game from afar, and make it accessible. Of course there are going to be issues, that take a couple of weeks to resolve. GUYS! as other people have mentioned, this is a 14 year old game - what a couple of weeks here and there?
Very rarely have I seen a company be so open and transparent with their customers, esp as they didn't take preorders for Mac/iOS, and have no reason to talk to us. Kudos to Trent, Cameron, and the whole team. Keep up the good work, give us a game your proud of whenever its ready, and bring on more of the same in the future.
I'll admit, I was frustrated when the deadline passed, and I refreshed this forum more often than I'd have liked. However, upon reflection, I understand where Beamdog is coming from. And then I realized how behemoths like EA treat fans like dirt (I'm still smarting over ME3, and it's no coincidence that the 2 doctors left soon after).
I'm excited because these guys are the brains behind some of the best games ever made. So give them some support, give them some encouragement - these guys are working hard for us. As Arsene Wenger has said recently (I'm paraphrasing) "The way the world is now has made us a more emotional society. Every word is picked on immediately and analysed. Whereas we were a rational society, we are now an emotional one, reacting immediately without rationality"
So Trent, Beamdog Team - from my side, and I'm sure from many others, GOOD WORK! THANKS! AND KEEP IT UP. It'll be ready when its ready, and I'm sure it'll be great. If people want to not buy it because its a week late, that's their choice, but if we stop supporting indie devs who undertake massive projects like this, then we deserve to play crap FPS clones till Kingdom come.
Sorry for the rant, my 2 cents. Or cent rather.
@Illydth Lambasting people doesn't change reality, and (alas) the reality is that giving a release date you don't meet is damaging to your company. It's a game of perceptions, and those don't respond to logic. It sucks, but even if he gave a nice generic 'Hrm, I think we may have this bug fixed by Monday', as soon as they miss even ONE such deadline, they're in a world of hurt. Giving official release dates and missing them hurts your reputation, and people take anything he says as an 'official' announcement... and that's just not fair.
Neither is life.